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How does Buy to Let END!


macca

What happens when generation rent retire with tiny pensions and massive rent bills!  

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On 22/07/2019 at 19:12, No One said:

Unless voting for him causes more chaos (after Brexit ofcourse) which causes a run on the pound and 7% IR's. But its a looooong shot

In the mean time people can do a 10 year fix and they will the banks are not offering them for fun they suspect interest rates are going no where mind they have been wrong many times lol

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  • 3 weeks later...
1 hour ago, Durabo said:

Another Reddit sentiment indicator - it seems that most people are now dead set against BTL after the tax changes.

 

Balndundersight on ToS did all this ~5 years ago when the new rules came in.

Its was doddle to work out how itll end.

UK rentlas have never made any financial sense since ~2002ish - unless you leveraged like a loon.

The S24 changes dont ban leverage but they put the rental income thru on your income, which is what should have happened from the start.

IO BTL was just a gap in HMRC rules which they never bothered with as banks would not be so stupid to lend several million to some idiot with a 25k job ....

The bulk of IO BTL was in the north.

IO BTL who've goe big are basically bust, dead ,fucked, even if they dont know it yet.

For various reasons, all the great n useless in Scabby got into IO BTL big time - its no unusual to come across someone doing a crappy job, say driving a taxi, having 1m/2m of IO BTL Loans, all let out to DSS.

Part of it is because Scabby is small. The other part is Scabby BS was big into BTL - then it went bust, due to beign big in IO BTL.

 

There are *NO* buyers for these places.

The IO BTLer cannot afford to hold them due to the tax changes. 

 

All under Prudence Brown.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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https://www.lettingagenttoday.co.uk/breaking-news/2019/8/why-i-may-quit-buy-to-let--a-landlord-explains-their-s21-dilemma

A private landlord has gone on record to explain her own dilemma with a tenant - and why the government’s scrapping of Section 21 may threaten the private rental sector. 

Gormless fuckers.

The risk of S21 is nothing to do with being able evict tenants, its the banks not being able to take possession.

Rubbish 
BTL hasn't distorted anything!! 
Properties purchased by LL could equally have been purchased by potential homebuyers but for many reasons they didn't do so. 

Err, leveraged IO Btl, arbing the OOO equity, bidding up prices then forcing the would be buyer to rent from the cunts.

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UnconventionalWisdom
12 hours ago, spygirl said:

Err, leveraged IO Btl, arbing the OOO equity, bidding up prices then forcing the would be buyer to rent from the cunts

They are delusional, they must read about the housing crisis and think they contribute to it, just dont want to accept it. 

We "provide homes for people who dont want to commit to an area". You also take homes from people who do, bastards.

 

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41 minutes ago, Tdog said:

Tory housing minister talks about extending help to sell. Free market capitalism is hated by the Land rigging party.

https://www.ftadviser.com/mortgages/2019/07/29/help-to-buy-extension-on-the-table/

 

Nope.

The first chickens of HTB will be roosting soon.

People who find they are well in negative equity and no bank wants the remortgage.

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sancho panza
1 hour ago, spygirl said:

Nope.

The first chickens of HTB will be roosting soon.

People who find they are well in negative equity and no bank wants the remortgage.

worth reading the following Spy as per your various predictions.Lots of 5% deposit neg eq stories and these obviously preceded the HTB 5 year interest holiday comes to tragic end stories

11 hours ago, Tdog said:

DM is in full devastation mode today, they also have a "negative equity" story and refer to Help to Buy debt junkies.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7365861/First-time-home-buyers-five-cent-deposit-losing-house-prices-plummet.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ico=taboola_feed_desktop_news

 

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6 hours ago, sancho panza said:

worth reading the following Spy as per your various predictions.Lots of 5% deposit neg eq stories and these obviously preceded the HTB 5 year interest holiday comes to tragic end stories

 

You need 30-40% deposit to get the stupidly low APRs.

MY mortgage is fixed somewhere between 1.5 and 2% - I dont know the exact number, dont care. The debt is effectively free.

HTB just pushed prices up ~30%.

. not onlywill a HTBer have the normal 10% new build discount to cope with, there's another 30% HTB discount too.

And, being a 2nd house, no HTB loan will be available, so they run into the problem that HTB did not fix at all - low number of buyers.

. Mr n Ms HTB face their APR going from ~3% -> 6%.

They cannot sell as they are negative equity.

They are screwed unless theyve seen either a large increase in prices - most areas that were rising are now back ~5 years or seen their income rise ~30% in 5 years.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Tdog said:

Tory party have an election to win, they need donors and those donors want payback.

Which donors?

You are making the daft assumption LL made.

Companies dont vote.

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One of five estate agents in the suburb I live has closed down (Yourmove - merged with another branch in the city, a fair distance away so basically withdrawn from the area). 

Massively anecdotal but a nice sign with low volume and no letting fees.

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On 21/07/2019 at 19:00, stokiescum said:

Ps the poll needs livening in a rented room on it because that’s all social willbe able to afoard to pay

I strongly agree with this.

If you are on benefit then you be likely sharing a room in a shared house in the south.

I think there will be a lot of surprised people wholl be shating a bunk bed in a LA HMO.

 

Edited by spygirl
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  • 2 weeks later...

New ft series on cuntbins - well mcstalins - clever economic ideas.

https://www.ft.com/content/dc17d7ee-ccab-11e9-b018-ca4456540ea6



Meanwhile, the shadow chancellor has told the FT that he wants to see a new “right to buy” for millions of private tenants.

Mr McDonnell said he wanted to “tackle the burgeoning buy-to-let market” to make it easier for workers to buy the homes they live in. He suggested the sum paid by tenants would not necessarily be the market price. “You’d want to establish what is a reasonable price, you can establish that and then that becomes the right to buy,” he said. “You (the government) set the criteria. I don’t think it’s complicated.”

Idiot needs to look up burgeoning in the dictionary. Io btl grew under Labour. Gidiot killed it.

You can find a 10+ years old post ToS where i point out the huge ploitical risk of io btl.

Its here.

Theres no need for right to buy, which shows what a cretin mcstalin is.

Simple thing - tenant eviction review process, paid for LL and mortgage providor.

And bank has to fund 120% of the io btl loan on its book.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Tdog said:

So long as the taxpayer arent funding the discount i think its a wonderful idea.

The Tory party are totally ignoring the housing bubble theyve created in the last 9 years as they know its a vote loser.

No, on both.

Gidiot acutally did some sork -eventually on killing IO BTL. Its dead now. He should have done it in 2010 but they were dealing with Browns massive fuckup.

The housing bubble is mainly 199->2007 and is purely Brown.

The HTB is just temporary. And should nto have happened. Gidiot was Brown minor on some aspects.

 

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13 minutes ago, Tdog said:

Yes on both, the Tory party have created bubble no.2 ...

I know what gidiot done and its done nothing to stop buytolet, BTL has continued to grow so how you can say its dead is beyond reason.

The latest housing bubble is between 2013 and 2018, caused by FFL, TFS, more QE, 0.25% rates and HTB. Surely you cant blame Brown for that.

Quite simply Labour are bringing the housing bubble to the table for the election, Boris and his party have totally ignored this since coming into power, discussing Brexit, elderly care and crime instead. They know housing is a vote loser for them where as its the biggest issue for the under 52s.

With Labour bringing it to the table it means the Tory have to show what they intend to do.

Even if it is ending MIRAS for all BTL as opposed to for those in the higher tax threshold.

 

More blister than bubble.

And irs mainly in London/SE

 

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Bobthebuilder
50 minutes ago, Tdog said:

And Manchester, Birmingham, all of southern England ... places like Northampton as CONW tell us are insane.

Basically its pretty much everywhere apart from Teesidse and other places there are no jobs or prospects. I can confirm prices in Beverley are up 20% in a little over a year.

Prices are up 50-60% in a few years in East Dorset and West Hampshire where i was looking.

Too add that 50-60% is going from circa 190k to close circa 300k. thus another 110k on top of the circa 110k Labour added to the price of the 3 bed houses i was looking at that could have been bought for 80k in 1997.

Its madness for sure. I am not disagreeing with you but i sold my late Fathers bungalow in North Dorset in 2018 for almost the same price he paid for it in 2007.

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Bobthebuilder
Just now, Tdog said:

See Ringwood prices were up 20% within months of HTB2 being announced. Bournemouth has gone insane since also.

Property does seem to be taking longer to see in recent months, and is often taken off RM listings.

Places like Bmth, Broadstone, Christchurch, Swanage and Ringwood have always been a bit nuts and not worth it in my opinion, Swanage is off the scale. Dorset in general went crazy from 2002 ish, im sure you will see big falls at some point. North Dorset / South Somerset are much better value, still nuts mind and im sure prices will fall in these places as well, to much buy to let and pwoperty in my pension types as everywhere.

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34 minutes ago, Tdog said:

See Ringwood - prices were up 20% within months of HTB2 being announced. Bournemouth has gone insane since also.

Property in that area does seem to be taking longer to sell in recent months, and is often taken off RM listings. 

Asking prices maybe. Selling, fewn far between.

New Forest is grossly oversold. Theres literally nothing holding prices up.

See

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8164828/punters-fury-prize-3m-home-raffle-100k-millionaire-couple/

23 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

Places like Bmth, Broadstone, Christchurch, Swanage and Ringwood have always been a bit nuts and not worth it in my opinion, Swanage is off the scale. Dorset in general went crazy from 2002 ish, im sure you will see big falls at some point. North Dorset / South Somerset are much better value, still nuts mind and im sure prices will fall in these places as well, to much buy to let and pwoperty in my pension types as everywhere.

Greater Bmouth sprawl is riddled with BTL flats.

Any change to migration - and IM expecting big changes - will see the place hammered.

The posher bits aroudn the edges are fcked as theres just not enough OAPS entering the market.

Some of the older places must be in a state of probate collapse/flood.

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On ‎21‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 19:00, stokiescum said:

Ps the poll needs livening in a rented room on it because that’s all social willbe able to afoard to pay

living under stairs like harry potter.. don't think I can edit the poll.. but its already a reality for some.. Ive seen it on one of those council investigates TV programs.. Some bloke was renting out the cupboard under the stairs.. MP's are total criminals..

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19 hours ago, Bobthebuilder said:

Places like Bmth, Broadstone, Christchurch, Swanage and Ringwood have always been a bit nuts and not worth it in my opinion, Swanage is off the scale. Dorset in general went crazy from 2002 ish, im sure you will see big falls at some point. North Dorset / South Somerset are much better value, still nuts mind and im sure prices will fall in these places as well, to much buy to let and pwoperty in my pension types as everywhere.

Id not touch places like swanage with a barge pole.

Its 70% 65+. These people will die out over the next 20 years.

There's limited public service i.e. schools and the like.

Its a PITA to get to places with good schools etc.

Theres fuck all jobs. Come brexit and end of farming subs, there'll be even less money.

Places like swanage - rural well away, in the sticks with limited public services and jobs are going to go the same way as rural france - no market.

Theres not the money to transact these places. Its only low rates and low transaction keeping the prices up.

 

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Talking Monkey
On ‎02‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 10:59, Tdog said:

And Manchester, Birmingham, all of southern England ... places like Northampton as CONW tell us are insane.

Basically its pretty much everywhere apart from Teesidse and other places there are no jobs or prospects. I can confirm prices in Beverley are up 20% in a little over a year.

Prices are up 50-60% in a few years in East Dorset and West Hampshire where i was looking.

Too add that 50-60% is going from circa 190k to close circa 300k. thus another 110k on top of the circa 110k Labour added to the price of the 3 bed houses i was looking at that could have been bought for 80k in 1997.

Do folks here  think those houses that were 80k in 1997 will go back to 80K plus inflation eventually if we have a bust

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Napoleon Dynamite
5 hours ago, Talking Monkey said:

Do folks here  think those houses that were 80k in 1997 will go back to 80K plus inflation eventually if we have a bust

I'm no expert, but I can't see it happening:

  • Benefits system puts a floor under prices
  • Dual income borrowing
  • Powers that be will do everything they can to keep interest rates low
  • If you get the inflation, wage rises will (probably) come too
  • Foreign Purchasers

My guess would be things dropping back to pre HTB levels in a crisis.  Where things were in 2010-2013 ish, when people were reluctant to take on debt.

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44 minutes ago, Napoleon Dynamite said:

I'm no expert, but I can't see it happening:

  • Benefits system puts a floor under prices
  • Dual income borrowing
  • Powers that be will do everything they can to keep interest rates low
  • If you get the inflation, wage rises will (probably) come too
  • Foreign Purchasers

My guess would be things dropping back to pre HTB levels in a crisis.  Where things were in 2010-2013 ish, when people were reluctant to take on debt.

Disagree.

With tax credits, the benefit system encourages ~50% of the under 50s to basically drop out of employment as son as the y have kids - YOU CANNOT GET A MORTGAGE ON TCs.

There's a demographic drop off anyhow. Thast being mae even worse by TC drop outs.

 

Dual income - theyve been present since ~80s. MMR kills double income with kids as it discounts any recuring  spend.

TPB - not really effectively. They fuck up then stuff blows up.

Only way out for UK is private sector wage growth. But in 905 of the UK, wages have some ways to go before they average worker meets the MMR requirements for average UK house.

Finally foreign pruchaers are going to be milked on tax on UK housing. Good.

The uber rich, will be unaffected. But they dont live near 99.999% of Brits.

The asian plauge of flats and what - good luck. Little money come out of CHina.

 

 

 

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Napoleon Dynamite
5 hours ago, spygirl said:

Disagree.

With tax credits, the benefit system encourages ~50% of the under 50s to basically drop out of employment as son as the y have kids - YOU CANNOT GET A MORTGAGE ON TCs.

There's a demographic drop off anyhow. Thast being mae even worse by TC drop outs.

 

Dual income - theyve been present since ~80s. MMR kills double income with kids as it discounts any recuring  spend.

TPB - not really effectively. They fuck up then stuff blows up.

Only way out for UK is private sector wage growth. But in 905 of the UK, wages have some ways to go before they average worker meets the MMR requirements for average UK house.

Finally foreign pruchaers are going to be milked on tax on UK housing. Good.

The uber rich, will be unaffected. But they dont live near 99.999% of Brits.

The asian plauge of flats and what - good luck. Little money come out of CHina.

Hope you're right.  I've kind of given up hope on it really, it's almost wish fulfilment for me thinking that it will happen.

I've always thought in lump sums, rather than monthly costs.  With interest rates where they are even though £100K is lot of money, the £200 a month it takes to service the interest on the debt is negligible.

With the way the last 10 years have gone I've held myself back thinking in terms of lump sums rather than monthly costs.

Do you really see drops of over 20/30%?

How about thinking in lump sum terms rather than monthly costs. At some point do we have to say there's been a paradigm shift and we're so far down this road thinking it will change is just too far fetched?

 

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