How does Buy to Let END!

[Noallegiance]

21 minutes ago, Option5 said:

Stumbled into this website, the in fighting between landlords is brilliant 😁

https://www.landlordtoday.co.uk/breaking-news/2020/3/what-impact-could-coronavirus-have-on-the-housing-market

My initial reaction is that Paul Barrett is a grade A cunt.

Amusing that his name is Barrett!

[eek]

1 hour ago, spygirl said:

Rental market chaos as tenants struggle to pay and 80,000 landlords fear bankruptcy

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/buy-to-let/rental-market-chaos-tenants-struggle-pay-80000-landlords-fear/amp/

I prefer the old headlines, about plucky propordee investors who were worth 6m*

All debt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not quite but it's £6m of "pretend equity" which they can't access and it isn't much when it's in illiquid assets attached to loans of say £10m.

1 hour ago, spygirl said:

Critics say there are major gaps in state support schemes

Nope.

Ll borrows money from bank.

Ll gets rents to tenant, ll pays bank.

Why should state offer any support?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My parents were talking about a friend's son who is in the exact same boat as me, self employed taking money via dividends so with little support.

They were completely surprised when I asked what the problem was? Surely he knew there was big risks in the approach so you need a lot of spare cash in case of rainy days.

Edited April 18, 2020 by eek

[spygirl]

48 minutes ago, Noallegiance said:

My initial reaction is that Paul Barrett is a grade A cunt.

Amusing that his name is Barrett!

Stupid fucking idiot cunt.

Responsible tenants would have saved at least 6 months of rent payments.....................just in case.

They used to call them rainy day savings.
Doesn't anyone do that anymore!?
Or is EVERYTHING 'just in time'

Just proves the vast amount of fecklessness that seems to be endemic in society.
Go without until you have at least 6 months of rent or mortgage payments.
I worked extra hard to build up my 'rainy day' savings.
Came in very handy when mortgage interest rates increased to 15%!!!!!!


But I was brought up differently to the snowflakes of today.

If you can't save then obtain credit cards with sufficient limits to cover 6 months of rent or mortgage payments.
I used to have credit card limits sufficient to keep going for 10 years of mortgage payments.
Handy 'insurance policy' to beat repossession.
Perhaps the current situation will concentrate peoples' minds to make themselves more financially resilient for that inevitable 'rainy day'.

 

Totally fucking mangled.

People with mortgages need 6 months payments, to be safe.

Renters are mainly on 1 months notice period. They've paid 1 month deposit.

If money goes then they can leg it, crash at parents, move to to higher density rental, or, more likely, go back to their home country.

Go back to the start of this thread. The risk with btl is fucking huge. 

Credit cards for 10 years mortgage payments. Yeah right, fucktard. Once you start ramping up CC balance you'll see other CC offers withdraw.

Putting mortgage payments @ 4% on CC @ 15% is financial idiocy.

 

 

[spygirl]

Another from cuntard.

We are all struggling but my bank the hated MX has NO sympathy whatsoever.
It is pay up or repossession occurs.
That is the reality.
So lets have no bleeding hearts about how we LL should be understanding of these difficult times for tenants..
Poppycock!!
We can't care cos our lenders DON'T care.
If my lender offers forbearance then I can to my occupants.
No sign yet of any forbearance offer from MX!!!
Until that occurs if ever I can have no sympathy with a tenants financial circumstances.
It is pay up or get out.
Believe me I won't be that bothered about the Prevention of Eviction Act!!!!

Surely the snowflake has saved up to have 6 months btl payments in cash? Just like he wants his tenants? Maybe need needs to stop driving fancy cars n doing without treats til hes got that money?

The level of disconnect between wanting the tenants to be hard working n frugal, compared to these financial  fucktards whove borrowed several million on IO is jaw dropping.

[spygirl]

Yep I say to all LL those that charge market rents and those that choose not to the very best of luck for the future.
Many will be lucky to still be LL.
Unfortunately there will be many repossessions and LL bankruptcies.

A real shame but it's a jungle out there and only the fittest will survive.

I consider myself a sloth which is why fitness will never be my thing.
So I must get out of the AST PRS.
Leave the AST market to those really fit LL.
They are welcome to it as far as I am concerned.
I believe however that many LL will have to toughen up.
The days of being a nice LL charging lower than market rates will be over
A new sense of realism will pervade amongst LL remaining in the AST. sector.
The PRS will be changed significantly.
LL purely from a survival perspective will need to become hard nosed as to how they conduct business.

A shame but recent events have made such imperatives as obvious.

Oh the comedy.

A Warren Buffet in the making.

Theres no such thing as lower than the market rent. Hell be a cretin from buying a below the rate idiot.

Price paid is the market.

90% of rents are determined by the LHA. LHA sets the market rents ffs.

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by spygirl

[Wheeler]

1 hour ago, spygirl said:

Another from cuntard.

We are all struggling but my bank the hated MX has NO sympathy whatsoever.
It is pay up or repossession occurs.
That is the reality.
So lets have no bleeding hearts about how we LL should be understanding of these difficult times for tenants..
Poppycock!!
We can't care cos our lenders DON'T care.
If my lender offers forbearance then I can to my occupants.
No sign yet of any forbearance offer from MX!!!
Until that occurs if ever I can have no sympathy with a tenants financial circumstances.
It is pay up or get out.
Believe me I won't be that bothered about the Prevention of Eviction Act!!!!

Surely the snowflake has saved up to have 6 months btl payments in cash? Just like he wants his tenants? Maybe need needs to stop driving fancy cars n doing without treats til hes got that money?

The level of disconnect between wanting the tenants to be hard working n frugal, compared to these financial  fucktards whove borrowed several million on IO is jaw dropping.

He can put the mortgage payments on his credit card can't he?

I'd be interested to know how much rent he thinks he'll get on an empty property when he kicks the tenants out.

 

[BoSon]

I hope that twat is my ex-landlord (it's a holding company on the docs so not sure about the individual behind it) as I've just moved out of a shared flat so I'm not mingling with my ex-flatmate key worker while I'm sat around waiting for the lockdown to ease so I can continue with the self-employment I was doing before.

Gave my one month notice when it was clear we were heading same way as China re restricted movement and moved out (using a local hire van company to self-move during the start of the lockdown) to isolate with relatives until it blows over. Letting agent hasn't yet completed the check-out process so may have to chase up the return of the deposit, they're in effect closed for business at the moment.

So looks like my ex-landlord and the letting agent is looking at several months of void. Oh dear.

Someone else in the same block, who was being furloughed, did the same at the same time so I'm sure many who are uncertain of when their income situation will improve have taken things into their own hands by moving back with relatives temporarily to reduce outgoings as much as possible.

Apparently BTLs now have a wave of airbnb places to compete with for tenants as they're going for longer term rentals while normal short term activity is frowned upon. A lot of downward pressure on the housing market at the moment and it may well get worse, what with all the probate virus deaths, credit crunch for mortgages increasing deposit requirements beyond reach of most, and uncertain future while hope hangs on a vaccine that isn't likely in any significant number before well into next year. Not many buyers while prices may be cheaper next week and those lumbered with insumountable debt will be forced to sell into a falling market.

Lovely jubly. I may finally buy my own place at the end of this after renting all over the place in recent years due to me freelance ex-career. I've got plenty of savings to wait it out. I'm alright, Jack.

I'll keep an eye on the market where my ex-flat is as I quite like the area, so if he struggles to re-let it and puts it on the market I may go back with a cheeky low offer in a few months.

[King Penda]

Wonder how fast and far they will drop

[Don Coglione]

Ladeez an' gennelmen,

For those that want a grandstand seat to watch the mass BTL exodus, I give you...

Basingstoke!

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION^115&propertyTypes=flat&primaryDisplayPropertyType=flats&includeSSTC=false&mustHave=&dontShow=&furnishTypes=&keywords=

[Option5]

2 minutes ago, Ponty Mython said:

Ladeez an' gennelmen,

For those that want a grandstand seat to watch the mass BTL exodus, I give you...

Basingstoke!

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION^115&propertyTypes=flat&primaryDisplayPropertyType=flats&includeSSTC=false&mustHave=&dontShow=&furnishTypes=&keywords=

Why do all these £100,000 flats have funny numbers on the adverts?

[Noallegiance]

38 minutes ago, Ponty Mython said:

Ladeez an' gennelmen,

For those that want a grandstand seat to watch the mass BTL exodus, I give you...

Basingstoke!

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION^115&propertyTypes=flat&primaryDisplayPropertyType=flats&includeSSTC=false&mustHave=&dontShow=&furnishTypes=&keywords=

Fucking hell. £350k?! 

Please let this 'market' disintegrate.

Please.

[spygirl]

11 hours ago, Ponty Mython said:

Ladeez an' gennelmen,

For those that want a grandstand seat to watch the mass BTL exodus, I give you...

Basingstoke!

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION^115&propertyTypes=flat&primaryDisplayPropertyType=flats&includeSSTC=false&mustHave=&dontShow=&furnishTypes=&keywords=

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-76920487.html

*INVESTORS ONLY**Tenant in situ* Paying £1200pcm*
A rarely available duplex apartment situated in the Crown Heights development which is situated close to the Town Centre and access to Basingstoke Train Station.

OIRO 260k

Investors, ehh.

1200//m = 1440/y, call it 15,000y

Assuming its let, thats a gross yield of:

Cash

Buy for 100k - 15%

Buy for 200k - 7.5%

Buy for 260k - ~4%

60% IO BTL mortgage (assuming you are earning a fair whack):, assume you'll pay 30% tax ion rental income (figures would be 50% tax for HRT):

10%

~5%

~3%

Now, you really need to be going for a ~1015% yield for a rental, theres a lot of expenses - 2 months void, 4k/year maintenance n costs.

Put those on 2400 + 2k (skimp on stuff)  ~5k running costs/y

Zap those yields disappear.

There are no ivnestors buyign those houses.

Bstokes a wierd place.

Compared to ~30 years ago, when it used to have a lot of employers, theres nothing left bar AA, who are not long  for this world.

As far as commuting, thats a long (1h)/expsive trip to Wloo.

If people want a cheap place to live in that area then theyll live in Soton

 

 

 

 

 

[HolyCow]

21 hours ago, spygirl said:

Another from cuntard.

We are all struggling but my bank the hated MX has NO sympathy whatsoever.
It is pay up or repossession occurs.
That is the reality.
So lets have no bleeding hearts about how we LL should be understanding of these difficult times for tenants..
Poppycock!!
We can't care cos our lenders DON'T care.
If my lender offers forbearance then I can to my occupants.
No sign yet of any forbearance offer from MX!!!
Until that occurs if ever I can have no sympathy with a tenants financial circumstances.
It is pay up or get out.
Believe me I won't be that bothered about the Prevention of Eviction Act!!!!

Surely the snowflake has saved up to have 6 months btl payments in cash? Just like he wants his tenants? Maybe need needs to stop driving fancy cars n doing without treats til hes got that money?

The level of disconnect between wanting the tenants to be hard working n frugal, compared to these financial  fucktards whove borrowed several million on IO is jaw dropping.

Someone needs to go and post that as a response to him, the cheeky so and so. One rule for them another for tenants.

[spygirl]

14 hours ago, Ponty Mython said:

Ladeez an' gennelmen,

For those that want a grandstand seat to watch the mass BTL exodus, I give you...

Basingstoke!

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION^115&propertyTypes=flat&primaryDisplayPropertyType=flats&includeSSTC=false&mustHave=&dontShow=&furnishTypes=&keywords=

https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Location=Basingstoke-England%3A-Hampshire/Salary

 

Average Salary in Basingstoke, England: Hampshire

£29k

Avg. SalaryShow Hourly Rate

[spygirl]

Average mortgage in Bstoke is then going to be about 150k.

Assuming the sites figures are good, the other averages listed are dire. There few to now well paying jobs in Bstoke

 

 

[Wight Flight]

There is a counter argument here.

Maybe landlords won't be able to sell?

I would be very surprised if banks don't offer some assistance to landlords over the next few months. But I think property values will drop 25% in the short term.

Many landlords will go bust if they sell at that price, and they will also believe that it is a temporary blip as property values always go up.

They may hiss and spit a lot but I am not sure they will sell off in droves.

 

[Don Coglione]

3 hours ago, spygirl said:

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-76920487.html

*INVESTORS ONLY**Tenant in situ* Paying £1200pcm*
A rarely available duplex apartment situated in the Crown Heights development which is situated close to the Town Centre and access to Basingstoke Train Station.

OIRO 260k

Investors, ehh.

1200//m = 1440/y, call it 15,000y

Assuming its let, thats a gross yield of:

Cash

Buy for 100k - 15%

Buy for 200k - 7.5%

Buy for 260k - ~4%

60% IO BTL mortgage (assuming you are earning a fair whack):, assume you'll pay 30% tax ion rental income (figures would be 50% tax for HRT):

10%

~5%

~3%

Now, you really need to be going for a ~1015% yield for a rental, theres a lot of expenses - 2 months void, 4k/year maintenance n costs.

Put those on 2400 + 2k (skimp on stuff)  ~5k running costs/y

Zap those yields disappear.

There are no ivnestors buyign those houses.

Bstokes a wierd place.

Compared to ~30 years ago, when it used to have a lot of employers, theres nothing left bar AA, who are not long  for this world.

As far as commuting, thats a long (1h)/expsive trip to Wloo.

If people want a cheap place to live in that area then theyll live in Soton

 

 

 

 

 

Never mind the length, feel the width.

ie OK, the yields are crap, but just think about the capital appreciation!

Oh, wait...

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/rg21-7tw.html?backListLink=%2Fproperty-for-sale%2Ffind.html%3FlocationIdentifier%3DPOSTCODE%5E3633865%26minPrice%3D230000%26maxPrice%3D290000%26minBedrooms%3D2%26radius%3D0.5

[spygirl]

2 minutes ago, Ponty Mython said:

Never mind the length, feel the width.

ie OK, the yields are crap, but just think about the capital appreciation!

Oh, wait...

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/rg21-7tw.html?backListLink=%2Fproperty-for-sale%2Ffind.html%3FlocationIdentifier%3DPOSTCODE%5E3633865%26minPrice%3D230000%26maxPrice%3D290000%26minBedrooms%3D2%26radius%3D0.5

Along with Reading, Bstoke is one of the major BTL slumsville.

So many a large companies had their HQs converted.

And the towers of cheap flats built in the old railway yards are a thing of wonder.

When you take a birds eye view of bstoke, you can see its in th middle of nowhere.

Sure, theres mways n the train  line but both involve spending a lot of money to get anywhere with jobs.

 

 

[Iamcynical]

1 hour ago, Ponty Mython said:

Never mind the length, feel the width.

ie OK, the yields are crap, but just think about the capital appreciation!

Oh, wait...

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/rg21-7tw.html?backListLink=%2Fproperty-for-sale%2Ffind.html%3FlocationIdentifier%3DPOSTCODE%5E3633865%26minPrice%3D230000%26maxPrice%3D290000%26minBedrooms%3D2%26radius%3D0.5

Amazingstoke. My first job was there.   Started in September 1998. At that time I though house prices there were stupid, but then I am a northerner. Little did I know eh 

It's a horrible soulless place imo.  Its surely too expensive to commute to London for the majority of people, so this will be one of the places that gets hit hard if prices do fall. 

[Don Coglione]

1 minute ago, Iamcynical said:

Amazingstoke. My first job was there.   Started in September 1998. At that time I though house prices there were stupid, but then I am a northerner. Little did I know eh 

It's a horrible soulless place imo.  Its surely too expensive to commute to London for the majority of people, so this will be one of the places that gets hit hard if prices do fall. 

They already have; from the link I pasted, every single flat that has been on-sold went for less than the first "owners" paid in 2003/4.

Basingstoke should be a great place, indeed it was until the 1970s, when people deemed too ugly to live in London were kicked out and re-housed (see also Bracknell, Farnborough, Andover etc). It is very well situated, with excellent road and rail links, it serves a very wealthy semi-rural community within, say, a ten mile radius.

Instead, it is shit.

[spygirl]

4 minutes ago, Iamcynical said:

Amazingstoke. My first job was there.   Started in September 1998. At that time I though house prices there were stupid, but then I am a northerner. Little did I know eh 

It's a horrible soulless place imo.  Its surely too expensive to commute to London for the majority of people, so this will be one of the places that gets hit hard if prices do fall. 

Once you get 30+ miles out, then the only people who can afford to commute to London are people earning 100k i.e. tiny number of people.

Theold days of hubby slogging in on a 1h/2h commute from somewhere nicer are long gone.

MMR removes commuting cost from the money you can borrow.

And rail travel cost has been going up ~5% over wage inflation for a good 15 years.

Ive sat down with people and explained how little of a pyarise they will be getting by commuting into London.

 

[Don Coglione]

5 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Once you get 30+ miles out, then the only people who can afford to commute to London are people earning 100k i.e. tiny number of people.

Theold days of hubby slogging in on a 1h/2h commute from somewhere nicer are long gone.

MMR removes commuting cost from the money you can borrow.

And rail travel cost has been going up ~5% over wage inflation for a good 15 years.

Ive sat down with people and explained how little of a pyarise they will be getting by commuting into London.

 

Spy, you are contradicting yourself again.

You state, correctly, that there are no longer any jobs in Basingstoke.

However, there are thousands and thousands of flat-dwellers in those shitty office conversions and new-builds along the railway line. Where do you think they all work, as not local?

[spygirl]

2 minutes ago, Ponty Mython said:

Spy, you are contradicting yourself again.

You state, correctly, that there are no longer any jobs in Basingstoke.

However, there are thousands and thousands of flat-dwellers in those shitty office conversions and new-builds along the railway line. Where do you think they all work, as not local?

Nope, no contradiction at all.

Bstoke is very ethnic now.

A log of people living there will either be on bennies, or travelling into low paid jobs around n about the area.

Most of the flats were pure IO BTL builds, so itll be investors, renting to the low skilled, low paid migrants.

IO BTL, migrants. Wheres the eed for well paying jobs?

[spygirl]

https://www.basingstoke.gov.uk/content/doclib/1876.pdf

The numbers of pupils with a first language from non-UK countries increased by a larger number in Basingstoke and Deane between 2007 and 2015 than in any other Hampshire district.

Within Hampshire, only Rushmoor (63.5%), Gosport (65.3%) and Winchester (67.6%) have fewer households that own their accommodation.

From 2001 to 2011, the percentage of households that owned their home with a mortgage declined by 18.8%, whilst outright ownership increased by 16.3%.17.8% of households in the borough lived in social rented accommodation, higher than in the South East (13.7%) overall and similar to the England average (17.7%)

A growing percentage of households lived in private rented accommodation (11.8%), which is an increase of 70.7% since 2001.

 

Few jobs. Increasing non British population, lots of rented property.

Poof! Rental empty, creating a slum town.

Its all very hot money and hot renters.

Bennie reforms? Poof ~15% of population out.

Tax reform on BTL? Poof! 20% of the housing stock is up for sale.

 

 

 

[spygirl]

1 hour ago, Wight Flight said:

There is a counter argument here.

Maybe landlords won't be able to sell?

I would be very surprised if banks don't offer some assistance to landlords over the next few months. But I think property values will drop 25% in the short term.

Many landlords will go bust if they sell at that price, and they will also believe that it is a temporary blip as property values always go up.

They may hiss and spit a lot but I am not sure they will sell off in droves.

 

Banks exposure of BTL has been shrinking over the last few years.

Chasing the lower rates, more canny IO BTL have moved over the specialist financial firms for their mortgages.

This is the very poitny end of commercial lending. No favours given.