How does Buy to Let END!

[spygirl]

Rate rises risk killing profits for higher-rate landlords

Research suggests highly leveraged investors in buy-to-let may start losing money

https://www.ft.com/content/22ce2339-47b5-4df9-9b4a-9387d211029b

Landlords paying the 40 per cent income tax rate would see their annual profits on a mortgaged buy-to-let home wiped out if UK interest rates rise by another two percentage points, according to research underlining the tightness of margins maintained by property investors.

For a higher-rate taxpayer with an average two-year fixed rate and a 75 per cent loan-to-value interest-only mortgage — a common type of buy-to-let loan — a rise of two percentage points would eradicate their profits, while a single percentage point rise would halve them, according to calculations by estate agent Hamptons International.

And when IO BTL SVR go above 8%?

[HousePriceMania]

AJR - World's Smallest Violin (Official Video)

 

 

[With a crooked smile]

On 21/04/2022 at 11:14, Axeman123 said:

If a LL can put the rent up, they will already have done so. If the tennant would meekly move out when asked, the LL would likely have already had them do so. The only time I expect a LL will let a long-term tennant stay at below market rent is if the property is in a terrible state, and no other tennant would accept it. I always assume tennanted properties for sale are LLs using the sale as a substitute for eviction of a non-payer, perhaps having payed the tennant off to play nice long enough for the sale to go through.

That's simply not true. Typically when we change tenants we put the rent at the max the market will take but then don't change the rent for years. When you've got a good tenant who's just getting on with it and your mortgage is long term fix the easy without voids is the way to go.

[Wight Flight]

1 hour ago, With a crooked smile said:

That's simply not true. Typically when we change tenants we put the rent at the max the market will take but then don't change the rent for years. When you've got a good tenant who's just getting on with it and your mortgage is long term fix the easy without voids is the way to go.

Do you not even put an annual RPI increase in the contract?

Edited April 29, 2022 by Wight Flight

[With a crooked smile]

18 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Do you not even put an annual RPI increase in the contract?

Our typical tenancy seems to be about 5 years.  The tenants on a fairly expensive deal at the beginning but a very good one at the end. We'll do anything that needs doing to the bathroom and boiler during that time but typically only redecorate between tenancies. 

We make a decent amount over a year but my view is we just want an easy life with a tenant that pays rent on time. Why risk voids ect .

[No One]

6 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

Our typical tenancy seems to be about 5 years.  The tenants on a fairly expensive deal at the beginning but a very good one at the end. We'll do anything that needs doing to the bathroom and boiler during that time but typically only redecorate between tenancies. 

We make a decent amount over a year but my view is we just want an easy life with a tenant that pays rent on time. Why risk voids ect .

Just curious, why even bother being a landlord? Wouldnt an SS ISA be better?

[Wight Flight]

15 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

Our typical tenancy seems to be about 5 years.  The tenants on a fairly expensive deal at the beginning but a very good one at the end. We'll do anything that needs doing to the bathroom and boiler during that time but typically only redecorate between tenancies. 

We make a decent amount over a year but my view is we just want an easy life with a tenant that pays rent on time. Why risk voids ect .

For the sake of argument, if you let a place at £1,050 per month, but 18 months later knew you would have a queue of cash rich renters willing to pay £1,500+, would you think differently? Over 5 years that is a lot of lost potential income.

[JoeDavola]

On 21/04/2022 at 10:37, Axeman123 said:

First one as an example asking £170k, rent £520/month = 3.6% gross yield.

I'll have some of whatever he is smoking. Based on that rent the house would be a poor yielding investment at half the price! The FTSE100 yields 3.48% for comparison, without voids/maintenance/non-payers. (I know, leverage changes the yeild but who would want that interest rate risk right now?)

Yup I see yields like that in NI; especially considering in NI the landlord has to pay the council tax.

Edited April 29, 2022 by JoeDavola

[With a crooked smile]

4 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

For the sake of argument, if you let a place at £1,050 per month, but 18 months later knew you would have a queue of cash rich renters willing to pay £1,500+, would you think differently? Over 5 years that is a lot of lost potential income.

My P60 for my 'real' job was just over 116k this year. Anything else I make I tend to stick through the wife or stepson for tax reasons. I'm well off enough just to view stuff like this as holiday fund or discretionary spend.

I want an easy life and just view stuff like this as a long term investment. Friends and family often look a us and think we do way to much so there has to be some taking it easy. I'm 45 I will cut back in the relatively near future. Also despite how I might appear online I'm quite a pleasant person I don't feel the need to screw people over all the time. I always treat people who rent from us with respect and like anyone else I would meet. 

Apologies for waffle long week.

[Boon]

5 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

For the sake of argument, if you let a place at £1,050 per month, but 18 months later knew you would have a queue of cash rich renters willing to pay £1,500+, would you think differently? Over 5 years that is a lot of lost potential income.

This type of rent appreciation on this time frame is not that common. 

Someone I know started rented between 2007-2017 and the figures were pretty close to this though. The starting rent was £1k and never changed. A year before the end of the tenancy someone moved next door and they were paying £1,500. 

The bulk of the divergence probably started in 2014 as the 2-bed flat started to break the £250k stamp duty cost and quickly surpassed this.

Reckon over the 10 years the LL must have lost out on around maybe £30k rent, but gained in that the tenants never made any demands for fear of rent being reassessed, also came off the agency contract and paid direct thus saving commission.

He was a higher rate taxpayer so I'm guessing the lack of hassle was worth the £1k/year net he might have got over the decade.

[Wight Flight]

2 minutes ago, Boon said:

This type of rent appreciation on this time frame is not that common. 

Historically I would agree.

Sadly that is what is happening here now and it is heartbreaking seeing people searching for properties with a budget that simply isn't going to get them anywhere now.

[With a crooked smile]

5 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Historically I would agree.

Sadly that is what is happening here now and it is heartbreaking seeing people searching for properties with a budget that simply isn't going to get them anywhere now.

I think I posted about this recently here too. We have another property that we rent out. It's the owners flat at the small hotel we bought. I could have rented it out on airbnb for considerably more than I'm making in a tourist town. But instead rented it to a couple who work locally (he's actually from Uruguay and she's Scottish).

My primary reason was I didn't want the hassle of airbnb. It does make me feel good tho to  have done something for people who live locally in my community. But again at the moment the rent is quite good (but still way off what I'd make as a Holiday let).

[sarahbell]

On 21/03/2022 at 12:44, Bobthebuilder said:

Who is going to buy them? If the house price has doubled then no local can afford to buy them, so its down to a BTLer paying double for the reduced rental yield that probably needs 20k spent on it for the new regs.

I know a guy paying £650 pm for a house that has gone from £160K to almost £300K during the convid, local wages cannot support rent at £1200 pm, what LL is going to take that on.

The non white people.

That's who is buying round here. 

[spygirl]

V good post on TOS, from long absent poster - 

https://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/244046-btl-lenders-landlords-in-trouble/

[Frank Hovis]

On 30/04/2022 at 08:14, sarahbell said:

The non white people.

That's who is buying round here. 

 

Why stay there then? That's only going to accelerate.

There's a big country out there.

[spygirl]

 

[Inque]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61392420
 

Cost of living: 'Rent rises mean I want my landlord to evict me'

This bit stood out for me

Rents are rising at the fastest rate for more than 13 years, according to property experts Zoopla. They said this is because of limited supply, caused by an "exodus" of private landlords.

 

[Andersen]

Uncle Phil gets a lesson in why LL's are quitting (tax is given as a main driver)

 

[spygirl]

Funny one - not paywall blocked -

'I'm paying people to buy 40 of my houses because the Government hates landlords'

Meet the landlord prepared to lose £520,000 to avoid evicting his tenants

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/buy-to-let/paying-people-buy-40-houses-government-hates-landlords/

Omfg. Tory scum, stopping this angel.

What is it with io btl and council workers?

Landlord banned from calling city council about controversial licensing scheme

'I may have used the word imbecile but I did not swear

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/landlord-banned-calling-city-council-2827772

Anyhow, back to original plan -

Mick Roberts is making his tenants an unconventional offer – he will gift them a deposit so they can buy their homes from him.

If they cannot get a mortgage, he is also prepared to cut the sale price by a tenth if the landlord buyers he sells to keep the existing tenants on. This could cost him more than half a million pounds.

These drastic measures are in response to proposed rule changes that will force landlords to improve the eco-efficiency of their properties, costing as much as £10,000 per home. He now wants to sell 40 of his properties.

Over the past 25 years, Mr Roberts has built a successful buy-to-let empire. He describes himself as the biggest benefits landlord in Nottingham. "I would like to pack it in and sell up. But I can’t because my tenants won't have anywhere else to live," he said.

Can anyone spot tge hole in plan? Ive Ul bolded it, just in case theres some LL reading.

His tenants can live in his properties. Itll take 12months+ to get a court eviction.

His second plan is to take a 10pc hit on the sale price but only if another landlord promises not to evict the current tenants. This would cost him more than half a million pounds.

Why would another LL want his cast offs? If he cant make money, how can they?

Youd want a tenant out if a property before you buy it.

Lets have a look at the comments, inc  Mick mother theras roberts-

.

.

Ian Wilkinson56 MIN AGO

We rent out our two to two elderly ladies at below market rate.

In the 7 years since starting, the rent has risen 5%.

Most landlords aren’t devils, they look to get a reasonable return, and most will rather rent to a decent tenant at below market value , than a higher rent to a pita.

The govt has got this all wrong. If landlords sell up before section 21 is removed, where are the tenants going to live?

As mentioned in another reply, you need a reality check.

JK

John Kings1 HR AGO

There’s a huge number of reluctant landlords out there. People who have had a pension lump sum or been left money and don’t want it to sit in the bank evaporating due to inflation. What else can they do with their cash? It’s effectively a substantial part of their pension.

I’ve seen how devastating it was many years ago when we had high inflation and people’s savings were wiped out. Hence reluctant landlords. They don’t want to be greedy, they just want a fair deal. EDITED

JR

Jane Robertson52 MIN AGO

This is the problem isn't it. A lot of people can't grasp the basics of investing and thousands of people decided a buy to let was the winning ticket. As an owner in a block full of amateur landlords I see it from that side. They are nasty to the management company, don't supervise tenants behaviour, and act like idiots if anything goes wrong. The landlord of the flat below me demanded I call out an emergency plumber twice when his water tank in his loft leaked into his flat. He didn't even know it was there, just expected someone else to pay to solve his problem

 

 

MR

Mick Roberts2 HRS AGO

Agreed. I have made enough from the rent over the years. I have also lost on many houses in the early years. And paying someone's deposit ain't gonna hurt me, but might help them massively. Agreed too, many of mine can't afford to buy, but SOME CAN.

And in Nottingham, houses are still affordable, but that's reducing as time goes on.

But if u don't wish to help anyone, that's your choice. I will do what I can.

And here's another thing for u, I don't want most of my houses any more. Someone offered to buy the whole lot yesterday, retire with enough to do what I want the rest of my life. What should I do? Sell and screw the tenants who have done nothing wrong? Would that be diddums enough for u? Or shall I have morals and conscience and be loyal? Problem is when u give it Diddums to good Landlords that's lost money and time to keep people in their homes, u then make it worse for tenants going forward. This is why we're where we are today with extortionate rents and no supply. The good Landlords are packing up.

 

 

•  

   

   

   

  ZG

  Zooey Glass51 MIN AGO

  Mick, you are the honest face of private landlords in Britain today. Maybe someone else can advise, but even though you wish to help your tenants, it may be that your hands are tied there too. If you gift a deposit, won't you be taxed? Are you even allowed to sell at a discount to your preferred buyer? In your altruism, in addition to the loss of your investment, you'll still be stung for tax.

 

 

 

[spygirl]

Now it gets interesting -

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/l4E2bQEyKcjdeJvXIf27pAUREok/appointments

Yoden House, 30 Yoden Way, Peterlee, Co Durham, SR8 1AL

 

[spygirl]

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/mick-roberts-landlord-436280ab?challengeId=AQFnk95t7KU47gAAAYEWd0IL4FHi_uYO9_r9YGzGZhTJrb3yd0niTZS0c26WBAIEEfFfSX_tqUQ3aNM8_aBJ_fcIXTdSNXrmtg&submissionId=5d75c329-0df9-f316-1cb1-a4dcc9373f5b

One of biggest HB Landlords in UK. Sticking up for tenants from constant Govt attacks on Landlord, which ImpactsOnTenant

And he wants his tenants to buy houses off him?

[spygirl]

I like his education -

Education

Alderman Derbyshire

Top level Maths

1979 - 1984

Rufford School Bulwell

Top Class Maths

1972 - 1979

Activities and Societies: Bulwell Chess Champion

CommonSense and Morals

 

Ive genuinely never seen anyone record which class they were in.

[spygirl]

More gym piccies -

 

[leonardratso]

1 hour ago, spygirl said:

More gym piccies -

 

where

 

[spygirl]

On 30/05/2022 at 20:13, spygirl said:

Funny one - not paywall blocked -

'I'm paying people to buy 40 of my houses because the Government hates landlords'

Meet the landlord prepared to lose £520,000 to avoid evicting his tenants

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/buy-to-let/paying-people-buy-40-houses-government-hates-landlords/

Omfg. Tory scum, stopping this angel.

What is it with io btl and council workers?

Landlord banned from calling city council about controversial licensing scheme

'I may have used the word imbecile but I did not swear

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/landlord-banned-calling-city-council-2827772

Anyhow, back to original plan -

Mick Roberts is making his tenants an unconventional offer – he will gift them a deposit so they can buy their homes from him.

If they cannot get a mortgage, he is also prepared to cut the sale price by a tenth if the landlord buyers he sells to keep the existing tenants on. This could cost him more than half a million pounds.

These drastic measures are in response to proposed rule changes that will force landlords to improve the eco-efficiency of their properties, costing as much as £10,000 per home. He now wants to sell 40 of his properties.

Over the past 25 years, Mr Roberts has built a successful buy-to-let empire. He describes himself as the biggest benefits landlord in Nottingham. "I would like to pack it in and sell up. But I can’t because my tenants won't have anywhere else to live," he said.

Can anyone spot tge hole in plan? Ive Ul bolded it, just in case theres some LL reading.

His tenants can live in his properties. Itll take 12months+ to get a court eviction.

His second plan is to take a 10pc hit on the sale price but only if another landlord promises not to evict the current tenants. This would cost him more than half a million pounds.

Why would another LL want his cast offs? If he cant make money, how can they?

Youd want a tenant out if a property before you buy it.

Lets have a look at the comments, inc  Mick mother theras roberts-

.

.

Ian Wilkinson56 MIN AGO

We rent out our two to two elderly ladies at below market rate.

In the 7 years since starting, the rent has risen 5%.

Most landlords aren’t devils, they look to get a reasonable return, and most will rather rent to a decent tenant at below market value , than a higher rent to a pita.

The govt has got this all wrong. If landlords sell up before section 21 is removed, where are the tenants going to live?

As mentioned in another reply, you need a reality check.

JK

John Kings1 HR AGO

There’s a huge number of reluctant landlords out there. People who have had a pension lump sum or been left money and don’t want it to sit in the bank evaporating due to inflation. What else can they do with their cash? It’s effectively a substantial part of their pension.

I’ve seen how devastating it was many years ago when we had high inflation and people’s savings were wiped out. Hence reluctant landlords. They don’t want to be greedy, they just want a fair deal. EDITED

JR

Jane Robertson52 MIN AGO

This is the problem isn't it. A lot of people can't grasp the basics of investing and thousands of people decided a buy to let was the winning ticket. As an owner in a block full of amateur landlords I see it from that side. They are nasty to the management company, don't supervise tenants behaviour, and act like idiots if anything goes wrong. The landlord of the flat below me demanded I call out an emergency plumber twice when his water tank in his loft leaked into his flat. He didn't even know it was there, just expected someone else to pay to solve his problem

 

 

MR

Mick Roberts2 HRS AGO

Agreed. I have made enough from the rent over the years. I have also lost on many houses in the early years. And paying someone's deposit ain't gonna hurt me, but might help them massively. Agreed too, many of mine can't afford to buy, but SOME CAN.

And in Nottingham, houses are still affordable, but that's reducing as time goes on.

But if u don't wish to help anyone, that's your choice. I will do what I can.

And here's another thing for u, I don't want most of my houses any more. Someone offered to buy the whole lot yesterday, retire with enough to do what I want the rest of my life. What should I do? Sell and screw the tenants who have done nothing wrong? Would that be diddums enough for u? Or shall I have morals and conscience and be loyal? Problem is when u give it Diddums to good Landlords that's lost money and time to keep people in their homes, u then make it worse for tenants going forward. This is why we're where we are today with extortionate rents and no supply. The good Landlords are packing up.

 

 

 

 

•  

   

   

   

  ZG

  Zooey Glass51 MIN AGO

  Mick, you are the honest face of private landlords in Britain today. Maybe someone else can advise, but even though you wish to help your tenants, it may be that your hands are tied there too. If you gift a deposit, won't you be taxed? Are you even allowed to sell at a discount to your preferred buyer? In your altruism, in addition to the loss of your investment, you'll still be stung for tax.

 

 

 

Oh look Micks cropped up again -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61650382

Mick Roberts is another local landlord with more than thirty properties across Nottingham. His tenants are all on housing benefits, mostly families but many pensioners.

Mr Roberts says he has "a conscience" about keeping rent down for his tenants. He has tenants so terrified their rent will go up they are too scared to ask for repairs, he says.

No he hasnt.

He keeps he rent to LHA as thats the only people hell get.

LHA sets 80%+ of the rental market FFS.