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Air BnB - How will it end?


Wight Flight

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Wight Flight

Obviously living in a holiday hotspot, a large and increasing number of local properties are holiday lets.

I fully expect the government to target these soon. 

Thoughts?

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One percent
14 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Obviously living in a holiday hotspot, a large and increasing number of local properties are holiday lets.

I fully expect the government to target these soon. 

Thoughts?

Good luck. Holiday season is a living hell. o.O

Edit to add, goth weekend here this weekend. 

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Wight Flight
5 minutes ago, One percent said:

Good luck. Holiday season is a living hell. o.O

Edit to add, goth weekend here this weekend. 

Nah.

Done it before. Become a regular out of season and you get looked after in season.

Will be interesting to see what effect it has on traffic. But as there is a limit on the number of cars that can actually get here, I doubt it will be like Devon.

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montecristo
1 hour ago, Wight Flight said:

Obviously living in a holiday hotspot, a large and increasing number of local properties are holiday lets.

I fully expect the government to target these soon. 

Thoughts?

Yep, just like in Dublin now.  Bring in a law that you need planning permission for short term lets.  Then refuse planning permission in areas with housing shortages.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-council-refuses-planning-permission-for-airbnb-style-lettings-914266.html

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Wight Flight
1 minute ago, montecristo said:

Yep, just like in Dublin now.  Bring in a law that you need planning permission for short term lets.  Then refuse planning permission in areas with housing shortages.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-council-refuses-planning-permission-for-airbnb-style-lettings-914266.html

That's making a huge assumption that councils care about people.

I think they care about money more.

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montecristo
Just now, Wight Flight said:

That's making a huge assumption that councils care about people.

I think they care about money more.

Ireland has a 2040 plan to import a million people.  Can't have Airbnb taking up all that housing for these million scientists and doctors.

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Many houses advertised for sale in the Lake District last year had restrictions when put up for sale "must be a local resident" etc. This is to stop outsiders paying inflated prices for a holiday homes - leading to housing being unffordable for local workers on NMW.

Search "Section 157", Ex-council houses can have restrictions included so that all sales in the fuiture have to be approved by the council - giving them the ability to implement a "Local residents only" policy or similar  https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-2725029/Council-wont-remove-restriction-house-knocking-price.html 

HMRC issue SA302 "tax year overview" certificates to show tax has been declared (& paid) on income from holiday lets, etc. Mortgage companies have started to refuse mortgage applications from folk who have been getting income from Air B&B but who can't show a SA302 certificate (assuming the income is not being declared/taxed). HMRC are running a campaign so "undeclaring" landlords can bring their tax up to date (tax is still due, but the large potential fines are reduced). Expect undeclaring landlords to sell up if/when it becomes unprofitable for them.

Increasing tax ("Section 24", +3% SDLT etc) and increasing legislation/costs means many existing holiday rentals are becoming less profitable, don't be surprised to see many being sold in the next couple of years.

For info, I'm often in North Wales but moves to Devon over the Winter, both have a "deserted in Winter / over-crowded in Summer" lifecycle. A mix of hotels/hostels, holiday rentals, Air B&B, etc.

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sleepwello'nights
10 minutes ago, Andersen said:

Many houses advertised for sale in the Lake District last year had restrictions when put up for sale "must be a local resident" etc. This is to stop outsiders paying inflated prices for a holiday homes - leading to housing being unffordable for local workers on NMW.

 

While I understand your sentiment I dislike ceding control to bureaucrats. Their mind set is too often that they know better than you. It is a step that must be resisted. 

One of the issues leading to overcrowding is nothing to do with property owners selling to the person who will pay the most but the excessive levels of immigration that are being encouraged. That is totally outside the control of individual property owners and even local authorities. 

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Why do you expect the UK government to act? Airbnb keeps house prices artificially high, and everyone as debt slaves. The world's third largest economy is being kept afloat by smoke and mirrors in the property market, the UK government won't ever do anything about Airbnb.

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AirBnb has helped push up the price of city centre apartments in Belfast, which had crashed hard (we're talking 60% drops) - because now an apartment isn't sold as an apartment to live in, it's an apartment to run as an airbnb business.

Plenty of people seem to be making a ton of money from it; especially if you're happy to sublet a room of your main residence you've got the 7.5K tax free allowance. There's a 2 bed flat in my block that someone is letting out as two separate listings - one per bedroom.

I was shocked to see a one bed ground floor flat selling quickly recently for 200K in Belfast - and the only reason I can think of that someone paid that much was because it was decorated in quite a modern hipsterish way that would look great in airbnb photos - they must be planning to run it as an airbnb.

I even heard a story recently where someone who lives just outside Belfast has converted his fucking garage to an airbnb, and apparently is earning enough from it to pay his mortgage! How the planners let him away with it I don't know.

And what this also means is that apartment builders will now waste more precious land building the smallest shoeboxes that they can legally build, because they're selling them to speculating airbnb-ers - they are basically blocks of individual hotel rooms, not places where you would enjoy living for an extended period.

TBH I'd considered buying a shoebox in the right area and getting in on this game myself...

EDIT: Here's an example....this apartment near me sold very quickly - it's 38 square meters in a knackered old block of flats (I know cause I've been in it - the communal areas are rotten)....I'd be depressed if I only had 38 square meters to live in, but I bet whoever bought this is gonna run it as an Airbnb since there's already other airbnb's in the same block:

https://www.propertypal.com/apt-8-colenso-court-stranmillis-belfast/560297

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Wight Flight
1 hour ago, spunko said:

Why do you expect the UK government to act? Airbnb keeps house prices artificially high, and everyone as debt slaves. The world's third largest economy is being kept afloat by smoke and mirrors in the property market, the UK government won't ever do anything about Airbnb.

Because there is a lot of untaxed income and scope for charges for regulation currently going begging.

Suck them in then tax the bollocks off them. Is working with the BTL sector.

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13 hours ago, montecristo said:

Ireland has a 2040 plan to import a million people.  Can't have Airbnb taking up all that housing for these million scientists and doctors.

Because importing people always makes a country better.. 

population expansion by its very nature is not good, more people, more cars, more pollution, more time spent traveling/queuing equals less life! crumbling infrastructure and worse living conditions.. 

we need a revolution.. 

this system will create population expansion to oblivion.. we don’t have enough resources to sustain the greed.. 

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1 hour ago, Wight Flight said:

Because there is a lot of untaxed income and scope for charges for regulation currently going begging.

Suck them in then tax the bollocks off them. Is working with the BTL sector.

They may tinker around the edges and go after the easy targets. But any sort of tax gain achieved by a huge clampdown will be cancelled out by a plunge in pwoperdee prices (according to HM Gov)

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Wight Flight
57 minutes ago, spunko said:

They may tinker around the edges and go after the easy targets. But any sort of tax gain achieved by a huge clampdown will be cancelled out by a plunge in pwoperdee prices (according to HM Gov)

Is that true though?

Stamp duty income has fallen through the floor.

I think they want to get the market moving again.

And if they are smart, they will see that in 5/10 years time, lifetime renters just won't vote for them.

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12 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Is that true though?

Stamp duty income has fallen through the floor.

I think they want to get the market moving again.

And if they are smart, they will see that in 5/10 years time, lifetime renters just won't vote for them.

SDLT income is at record levels.

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Wight Flight
7 minutes ago, spunko said:

SDLT income is at record levels.

Obviously I trust you but I keep hearing differently.

More lies from the MSM I guess?

So here you are.

Down slightly year on year but up massively over a 10 year period.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/nov/21/stamp-duty-revenue-in-england-down-10-percent-third-quarter-thresholds-brexit

 

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7 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Obviously I trust you but I keep hearing differently.

More lies from the MSM I guess?

It seems the most recent quarter has seen a slight fall (from record levels), but look at the graph here: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/nov/21/stamp-duty-revenue-in-england-down-10-percent-third-quarter-thresholds-brexit

It's a common misconception that it's fallen through the floor. Only the very top end of the market has seen receipts fall in recent years.

Almost half of all SDLT receipts come from within the M25 too. The London market is funding the Tories, they're not going to start tinkering with Airbnb (according to the Airbnb website, about 80% of their own properties are in London SE). If/when the London bubble pops, down go the Tories. They can try to stage manage it but they're not that stupid to regulate Airbnb IMO. I hope I'm wrong, I'd ban it.

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Wight Flight
36 minutes ago, spunko said:

It seems the most recent quarter has seen a slight fall (from record levels), but look at the graph here: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/nov/21/stamp-duty-revenue-in-england-down-10-percent-third-quarter-thresholds-brexit

It's a common misconception that it's fallen through the floor. Only the very top end of the market has seen receipts fall in recent years.

Almost half of all SDLT receipts come from within the M25 too. The London market is funding the Tories, they're not going to start tinkering with Airbnb (according to the Airbnb website, about 80% of their own properties are in London SE). If/when the London bubble pops, down go the Tories. They can try to stage manage it but they're not that stupid to regulate Airbnb IMO. I hope I'm wrong, I'd ban it.

You nicked my link :Old:

But the crackdown is starting

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/where-is-airbnb-banned-illegal/

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Terminology -

- BTL mortgage

- Furnished holiday let (FHL)

You cannot use a BTL mortgage for FHL or AirBNB - the TnCs inists that a full time resident on AST is present.

There is a reason for this - FHL tend to be left empty for a long time. Unless someone visits the FHL weekly you risk something catastrophic happening - roof blowing off, pipes bursting, tramps/local teens moving in.

Standard building insurance is invalidated is a place is left empty 2+ months.

You cannot borrow money for a place to be let on AirBNB - invalidates your mortgage TnCs. yes people do - I know of a fwq doing this.

Very few banks/BS do FHL mortgages - AFAIK majority are via Leeds BS. This is nuts. The reason why theres so few is that the0s house crash saw banks take huge losses on FHL loans. Leeds BS are being idiots.

There's an active, gormless tax investment advisers that push FHL. Its ery very risky.

FHL, dues to some gormless tax law - which may have been Brown - dont pay either council tax (residential) or business rates (what they shod be doing). small business rate relief.

 

SBR was targetted at trading companies that employ people. FHL do not employ anyone, not for 10h+.

UKGOV has brought in a  internet trading tax relief up to 1k/year.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/income-tax-new-tax-allowance-for-property-and-trading-income/income-tax-new-tax-allowance-for-property-and-trading-income

Id bet good money on removal of SBR for FHL, moving the property to rates - which are ~3x CTAX. There might be some deal where the LA can keep some of the money - Rates go to central gov.

All AirBNBers will be required to pay business rates - minus the 1k relief.

AirBNB will be providing all the info to HMRC.

The huge number of FHL and AirBNB are going to get a very hard wakeup to their 'clever' investment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Wight Flight
2 hours ago, spygirl 🏆 said:

Terminology -

- BTL mortgage

- Furnished holiday let (FHL)

You cannot use a BTL mortgage for FHL or AirBNB - the TnCs inists that a full time resident on AST is present.

There is a reason for this - FHL tend to be left empty for a long time. Unless someone visits the FHL weekly you risk something catastrophic happening - roof blowing off, pipes bursting, tramps/local teens moving in.

Standard building insurance is invalidated is a place is left empty 2+ months.

You cannot borrow money for a place to be let on AirBNB - invalidates your mortgage TnCs. yes people do - I know of a fwq doing this.

Very few banks/BS do FHL mortgages - AFAIK majority are via Leeds BS. This is nuts. The reason why theres so few is that the0s house crash saw banks take huge losses on FHL loans. Leeds BS are being idiots.

There's an active, gormless tax investment advisers that push FHL. Its ery very risky.

FHL, dues to some gormless tax law - which may have been Brown - dont pay either council tax (residential) or business rates (what they shod be doing). small business rate relief.

 

SBR was targetted at trading companies that employ people. FHL do not employ anyone, not for 10h+.

UKGOV has brought in a  internet trading tax relief up to 1k/year.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/income-tax-new-tax-allowance-for-property-and-trading-income/income-tax-new-tax-allowance-for-property-and-trading-income

Id bet good money on removal of SBR for FHL, moving the property to rates - which are ~3x CTAX. There might be some deal where the LA can keep some of the money - Rates go to central gov.

All AirBNBers will be required to pay business rates - minus the 1k relief.

AirBNB will be providing all the info to HMRC.

The huge number of FHL and AirBNB are going to get a very hard wakeup to their 'clever' investment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Business rates are roughly 30% of annualised rent.

That alone would wipe them out.

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1 hour ago, Wight Flight said:

Business rates are roughly 30% of annualised rent.

That alone would wipe them out.

As far as FHL you are unlijely to make money if youve finance.

Even not paying rates or ctax, being able to offset interet agin tax, they are skirting close to fucking up.

FHL get about 15 weeks income, 10 prime.

More than 15 and its gravy.

The issue is its mainly school holidays with a few weeks outside. 

The demand runs easter to october plus xmas ny.

Im already seeing Weve a few days available this easter....

Ditto summer, where if youve voids in jul n aug your fucked.

Any dlowfown and demand disappear.

In the old boom n bust FHL were insanely risky - economy gets too hot, ir raise, demand disappers, fhl repod by october.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, One percent said:

One thing ive seen olenty but these airbnb are being dumb about is massive trashing dirty protest.

Rent out a place, cleaner goes in and ..... everything is trashed smashed, shit smeared over walls.

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One percent
Just now, spygirl 🏆 said:

One thing ive seen olenty but these airbnb are being dumb about is massive trashing dirty protest.

Rent out a place, cleaner goes in and ..... everything is trashed smashed, shit smeared over walls.

I knew a couple years ago top of bank rhb. Did b&b. A couple staying one night pissed all over the new and expensive mattress. 

Why would you bother? 

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On 12/04/2019 at 16:08, spygirl said:

Terminology -

- BTL mortgage

- Furnished holiday let (FHL)

You cannot use a BTL mortgage for FHL or AirBNB - the TnCs inists that a full time resident on AST is present.

There is a reason for this - FHL tend to be left empty for a long time. Unless someone visits the FHL weekly you risk something catastrophic happening - roof blowing off, pipes bursting, tramps/local teens moving in.

Standard building insurance is invalidated is a place is left empty 2+ months.

You cannot borrow money for a place to be let on AirBNB - invalidates your mortgage TnCs. yes people do - I know of a fwq doing this.

Very few banks/BS do FHL mortgages - AFAIK majority are via Leeds BS. This is nuts. The reason why theres so few is that the0s house crash saw banks take huge losses on FHL loans. Leeds BS are being idiots.

There's an active, gormless tax investment advisers that push FHL. Its ery very risky.

FHL, dues to some gormless tax law - which may have been Brown - dont pay either council tax (residential) or business rates (what they shod be doing). small business rate relief.

 

SBR was targetted at trading companies that employ people. FHL do not employ anyone, not for 10h+.

UKGOV has brought in a  internet trading tax relief up to 1k/year.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/income-tax-new-tax-allowance-for-property-and-trading-income/income-tax-new-tax-allowance-for-property-and-trading-income

Id bet good money on removal of SBR for FHL, moving the property to rates - which are ~3x CTAX. There might be some deal where the LA can keep some of the money - Rates go to central gov.

All AirBNBers will be required to pay business rates - minus the 1k relief.

AirBNB will be providing all the info to HMRC.

The huge number of FHL and AirBNB are going to get a very hard wakeup to their 'clever' investment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’ve a mate who bought 2 flats in Edinburgh with mortgages to ABNB , apparently everyone is doing it and he had to get in quick as it’s driving up the price of city centre flats 

More than enough triggers there for me to predict bankruptcy 

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