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Great Guy

Corbyn - Minimum Wage

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Corbyn has announced he proposes a minimum wage of £10 an hour... That's not super controversial.... However he wants that for 16 year olds as well....

Which employers are going to employ a 16 year old at £20k a year?

 

 

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1 minute ago, Great Guy said:

Corbyn has announced he proposes a minimum wage of £10 an hour... That's not super controversial.... However he wants that for 16 year olds as well....

Which employers are going to employ a 16 year old at £20k a year?

 

 

It'll just speed up automation.

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4 minutes ago, Great Guy said:

Corbyn has announced he proposes a minimum wage of £10 an hour... That's not super controversial.... However he wants that for 16 year olds as well....

Which employers are going to employ a 16 year old at £20k a year?

 

 

If you are just serving burgers then there are plenty of 16 year olds that can do that just as well as a 40 year old.

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3 minutes ago, Great Guy said:

Corbyn has announced he proposes a minimum wage of £10 an hour... That's not super controversial.... However he wants that for 16 year olds as well....

Which employers are going to employ a 16 year old at £20k a year?

 

 

Yes... even if you like the concept it’s important to keep 16-18yr olds at a discount to give them an advantage in securing employment.  Post 18yr most will have established their worth and the wage step up will not be an issue.

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They will all be unemployed. The point of the lower wage I'd that is an incentive for an employer to take on a gauche and inexperienced sixteen year old and train them up.

Now if you are paying the same then you are going to have the experienced, hard working and polite EE instead.

Unless Corbyn now intends to bring in a rule forcing firms to employ inexperienced people on the same wages as those who can actually do the job.

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2 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

They will all be unemployed. The point of the lower wage I'd that is an incentive for an employer to take on a gauche and inexperienced sixteen year old and train them up.

Now if you are paying the same then you are going to have the experienced, hard working and polite EE instead.

Unless Corbyn now intends to bring in a rule forcing firms to employ inexperienced people on the same wages as those who can actually do the job.

I think you maybe underestimating some younger people. They want to work, not spend years in endless expensive education.

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I agree with Corbyn on this, an hour's work from an 18 year old is worth the same as anyone elses. Giving them less because the are precieved to need less is wrong.

Pay people what they are worth, not what they need, regardless of age.

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1 minute ago, MrPin said:

I think you maybe underestimating some younger people. They want to work, not spend years in endless expensive education.

I don't blame them either.

But who will want to employ an inexperienced worker when they could have an experienced worker for the same money? I wouldn't.

The lower wage gave an employer an incentive to give somebody their first job.  This takes away that incentive and unless they are fortunate enough to get onto an apprenticeship then they are going to really struggle to get that experience which most employers demand.

Not for the first time Corbyn is showing his stupidity: a measure he thinks will help young people will actually consign them to the labour exchange queues for years.

6 minutes ago, snaga said:

I agree with Corbyn on this, an hour's work from an 18 year old is worth the same as anyone elses. Giving them less because the are precieved to need less is wrong.

Pay people what they are worth, not what they need, regardless of age.

Paying lower paid people what they are worth went out when the minimum wage came in 

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3 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I don't blame them either.

But who will want to employ an inexperienced worker when they could have an experienced worker for the same money? I wouldn't.

The lower wage gave an employer an incentive to give somebody their first job.  This takes away that incentive and unless they are fortunate enough to get onto an apprenticeship then they are going to really struggle to get that experience which most employers demand.

Not for the first time Corbyn is showing his stupidity: a measure he thinks will help young people will actually consign them to the labour exchange queues for years.

Paying lower paid people what they are worth went out when the minimum wage came in 

But...

The minimum wage is still lower for 24 year olds. You could have someone with 7 year's experience and still pay them less than some 25 year old with no relevant experience.

I knew of one local employer with a dead end job that sacks everyone on their 18th birthday to get a new slave replacement in.

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1 minute ago, Wight Flight said:

But...

The minimum wage is still lower for 24 year olds. You could have someone with 7 year's experience and still pay them less than some 25 year old with no relevant experience.

I knew of one local employer with a dead end job that sacks everyone on their 18th birthday to get a new slave replacement in.

I confess to not knowing the details but think my point still stands.

I heard that some employers used to do the same to YTS people (sack them when the subsidised period ended) but it still have them some experience.

We had half a dozen unemployed youngsters in subsidised six month roles at one of my companies, and with some I had to interview you could see why they were unemployed, but there was no expectation that we would keep them on after that period; it was designed to give them the experience.  Two or three of them did get jobs there as vacancies arose when they were there and they had already proven themselves.

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

But...

The minimum wage is still lower for 24 year olds. You could have someone with 7 year's experience and still pay them less than some 25 year old with no relevant experience.

I knew of one local employer with a dead end job that sacks everyone on their 18th birthday to get a new slave replacement in.

I have known employers do this with apprentices - £50 a week to do all the menial work. Then when the apprenticeship runs out there suddenly is no work. Effectively it is a three year slave scheme for employers.

And one employer who would sack agency on the day they qualified for workers' rights.

It's probably just best to let the private sector operate privately. All the government does is put sand in the cogs.

Edited by billfunk

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35 minutes ago, Great Guy said:

Corbyn has announced he proposes a minimum wage of £10 an hour... That's not super controversial.... However he wants that for 16 year olds as well....

Which employers are going to employ a 16 year old at £20k a year?

Great news for jobs....in automation and outsourcing companies.

Bad news for jobs everywhere else.

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We used to employ 10 youths from August to December every year. We got a mix of a (very few) 16 year olds, some 18 year olds and some new graduates. They were all paid the same (£7 per hour 10 years ago) and they all performed brilliantly.

There are some very mature 16 year olds. There are also some completely useless 25 year olds.

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The other problem with this is the disabled. We used to use a lot of piece workers, packing stuff at home. The really quick ones could make £12 an hour. We also had a couple of disabled ones. At best they could make £3 per hour but were very happy.

When minimum wage came in, we had to stop giving them work.

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30 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Paying lower paid people what they are worth went out when the minimum wage came in 

so, the min wgae should be for everyone, want older more experienced staff? compete with other employers for them by paying more than the min wage.

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1 minute ago, snaga said:

so, the min wgae should be for everyone, want older more experienced staff? compete with other employers for them by paying more than the min wage.

The minimum wage has became a de facto maximum wage for most processing, harvesting and similar level jobs.

This is why do many employers are arch remainers because they want a big supply of labour so that they can continue not to compete on wages but just pay NMW.

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Just now, Frank Hovis said:

The minimum wage has became a de facto maximum wage for most processing, harvesting and similar level jobs.

This is why do many employers are arch remainers because they want a big supply of labour so that they can continue not to compete on wages but just pay NMW.

you can argue that min wage level is too high/low and I'd probably agree with you, but I don't think having a different lower price for younger workers is right.

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24 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I heard that some employers used to do the same to YTS people (sack them when the subsidised period ended) but it still have them some experience.

 

How do you think I found Mrs. Eight? They used to change the post room YTS girls for fresh ones every six months. In the end it got boring and I just stuck with the current one.

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4 minutes ago, snaga said:

you can argue that min wage level is too high/low and I'd probably agree with you, but I don't think having a different lower price for younger workers is right.

Realistically the average 16 year old has a low value on the labour market. If you have a business you might be happy employing a 16 year old at £5 an hour to do photocopying/ make tea/ filing etc. However that type of work is not worth £10 an hour. 

The consequence of this legislation would be to make 16 most year olds unemployable.

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8 minutes ago, snaga said:

you can argue that min wage level is too high/low and I'd probably agree with you, but I don't think having a different lower price for younger workers is right.

Generally speaking, a 16 year old straight out of school doesn't give an employer equal work to an experienced 30 year old so should have no reasonable expectation of equal pay.

It's a silly debate, really, as the government should have nothing to do with what an employer pays their employees.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Great Guy said:

Realistically the average 16 year old has a low value on the labour market. If you have a business you might be happy employing a 16 year old at £5 an hour to do photocopying/ make tea/ filing etc. However that type of work is not worth £10 an hour. 

The consequence of this legislation would be to make 16 most year olds unemployable.

16 years olds are almost unemployable now, not becuase of price but because of child protection laws.

I got my first job aged 13, earned the same hourly rate as someone 40 years my senior, and probably worked harder too. So I don't buy in to these stereotypes that teenagers don't work hard, if they don't it's because employment law stopped them learning how to work by doing a paper round, or saturday job.

besides, where are all these older experienced workers going to come from to fill the jobs vacated by useless teeenagers? oh immigrants?

if so, someone tell the teenagers thay better vote for the brexit party.

 

 

Edited by snaga

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