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Chewing Grass

Brexit Betrayal thread - Part 4

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There can be no Brexit with the current Parliament of 450 Remainer MPs. A Brexiteer PM won’t change the maths. 

The Remainer Tory MPs have declared they will bring down the government and force a General Election if No Deal is attempted either directly or by running the clock down, no matter who it is. This would mean a Marxist Corbyn government, perhaps a minority one, but still, a Marxist govt. Too many people in Labour strongholds would keep their tribal loyalty and not vote for Farage in a GE. 

It astonishes me that Remainer Tories believe No Deal is worse than a Corbyn government. Could they really commit this treachery? 

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9 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

There can be no Brexit with the current Parliament of 450 Remainer MPs. A Brexiteer PM won’t change the maths. 

The Remainer Tory MPs have declared they will bring down the government and force a General Election if No Deal is attempted either directly or by running the clock down, no matter who it is. This would mean a Marxist Corbyn government, perhaps a minority one, but still, a Marxist govt. Too many people in Labour strongholds would keep their tribal loyalty and not vote for Farage in a GE. 

It astonishes me that Remainer Tories believe No Deal is worse than a Corbyn government. Could they really commit this treachery? 

Well if Nigel stands on a "flood the den of traitors with Brexiteers" platform just to pass brexit and then promises to calls another election. Their gesture will be fruitless.

Bring it on! xD

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28 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

There can be no Brexit with the current Parliament of 450 Remainer MPs. A Brexiteer PM won’t change the maths. 

The Remainer Tory MPs have declared they will bring down the government and force a General Election if No Deal is attempted either directly or by running the clock down, no matter who it is. This would mean a Marxist Corbyn government, perhaps a minority one, but still, a Marxist govt. Too many people in Labour strongholds would keep their tribal loyalty and not vote for Farage in a GE. 

It astonishes me that Remainer Tories believe No Deal is worse than a Corbyn government. Could they really commit this treachery? 

The difference now is if they support a no confidence motion due to support of no deal, we have an election, they lose their jobs. Brexit party wins seats or Libdems. The btl Tories need to find another job. Pensions and expenses cancelled.

Do you really think they will kiss goodbye to the gravy train? The only way now is out the EU hard brexit. They got into this corner by their own doing by accident not design. It's hard brexit or the highway. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The Masked Tulip said:

 

 

The Sky News Australia video linked in that Twitter thread is well worth watching, particularly as it highlights the appalling coverage of the British media of the EU results.

This analysis is also pretty good

By comparison the UK coverage is a stinking pile of shit and all the so called journalists involved should hang their heads in shame 

Edited by Virgil Caine

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

Trying to remember if any other MPs or party members  voted or advocated voting for other than their own party other than Heseltine and Campbell ?

Gina Miller suggested voters in Wales support Plaid Cymru.

Bernard McEldowney has membership revoked because he liked and retweeted Change UK.

I can't believe he's not bitter.

Oh wait.........he is.

 

 

Edited by Bedrag Justesen

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4 hours ago, Green Devil said:

The difference now is if they support a no confidence motion due to support of no deal, we have an election, they lose their jobs. Brexit party wins seats or Libdems. The btl Tories need to find another job. Pensions and expenses cancelled.

Do you really think they will kiss goodbye to the gravy train? The only way now is out the EU hard brexit. They got into this corner by their own doing by accident not design. It's hard brexit or the highway. 

I don’t think they believe the Brexit Party can translate the victory in this EU election into a General Election, they think it’s a protest vote and voters will return to type in a GE.  It’s true that there are places which historically always vote Labour or Conservative in a GE, and IMO it might be difficult for old Labour supporters to vote for the kind of candidate Farage puts up. I suspect Corbyn will end up in government.  

But you’re right that the majority of the traitor Tories would lose their seats. From voting Tory to voting BP is less of a change to type. 

5 hours ago, XswampyX said:

Well if Nigel stands on a "flood the den of traitors with Brexiteers" platform just to pass brexit and then promises to calls another election. Their gesture will be fruitless.

Bring it on! xD

Hmm. It’d be much closer than many think IMO. If Labour switch to full-on Remain they’ll recover all the LibDem voters and although they’ll lose many in the north to Brexit Party, not all will do it.  Let’s face it, in the last 20 years not a single working-class voter, all of whom have been totally abandoned by Labour, should have voted for them, but they still have done because they’re stuck in their 1960s class war mentality. 

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1 hour ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

I don’t think they believe the Brexit Party can translate the victory in this EU election into a General Election, they think it’s a protest vote and voters will return to type in a GE.  It’s true that there are places which historically always vote Labour or Conservative in a GE, and IMO it might be difficult for old Labour supporters to vote for the kind of candidate Farage puts up. I suspect Corbyn will end up in government.  

But you’re right that the majority of the traitor Tories would lose their seats. From voting Tory to voting BP is less of a change to type. 

Hmm. It’d be much closer than many think IMO. If Labour switch to full-on Remain they’ll recover all the LibDem voters and although they’ll lose many in the north to Brexit Party, not all will do it.  Let’s face it, in the last 20 years not a single working-class voter, all of whom have been totally abandoned by Labour, should have voted for them, but they still have done because they’re stuck in their 1960s class war mentality. 

I have said before that I work in heavily unionised industry in the North West of England I can tell you that my colleagues would be embarrassed to tell you that they supported Labour.

Labour have lost Scotland and now they have lost the North West of England and also parts of the North East, they don't have a hope of winning an election any time soon.

The working class are behind Nigel and the only thing that is going to stop him is Tory voters reverting to type and not working class former Labour supporters.

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8 hours ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

There can be no Brexit with the current Parliament of 450 Remainer MPs. A Brexiteer PM won’t change the maths. 

The Remainer Tory MPs have declared they will bring down the government and force a General Election if No Deal is attempted either directly or by running the clock down, no matter who it is. This would mean a Marxist Corbyn government, perhaps a minority one, but still, a Marxist govt. Too many people in Labour strongholds would keep their tribal loyalty and not vote for Farage in a GE. 

It astonishes me that Remainer Tories believe No Deal is worse than a Corbyn government. Could they really commit this treachery? 

A brexiteer PM with sufficient balls could change the maths by taking parliament out of the equation through the prorogation of parliament until we fall out on October 31st under the current legislation.

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/occasions/prorogation/

They'd face all sorts of vexatious legal challenges, and probably a confidence vote once parliament is back in session, but to be honest an election straight after would probably be best anyway to clear the air a bit.

Unfortunately I don't think any of the contenders for the Tory leadership have it in them.

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1 hour ago, M S E Refugee said:

I have said before that I work in heavily unionised industry in the North West of England I can tell you that my colleagues would be embarrassed to tell you that they supported Labour.

Labour have lost Scotland and now they have lost the North West of England and also parts of the North East, they don't have a hope of winning an election any time soon.

The working class are behind Nigel and the only thing that is going to stop him is Tory voters reverting to type and not working class former Labour supporters.

Pleased to hear that! Hope you're right. 

If the Tories go full Brexiteer and still manage to win in their "core" seats, and Farage wins the Labour Leave seats, it won't matter so much if there's no majority for any party because the House of Commons will have a majority of Leave MPs. 

Anyway there's a shitload of messing about and posturing from Tories competing for the leadership to put up with before any of this happens.

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11 minutes ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

 

What they have not twigged is that they could all resign today and in large parts of Wales and the North of England people would still vote for the LP.

The brand and generations of family voting is all important.

Plus, of course, the LP biased media have done a very good job of labelling anyone who criticises Corbyn's LP as some kind of far right Jew loving Nazi islamophobe.

Corbyn 'owns' the brand. Getting rid of the Bliarites is a win win for him is it not?

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

There can be no Brexit with the current Parliament of 450 Remainer MPs. A Brexiteer PM won’t change the maths. 

The Remainer Tory MPs have declared they will bring down the government and force a General Election if No Deal is attempted either directly or by running the clock down, no matter who it is. This would mean a Marxist Corbyn government, perhaps a minority one, but still, a Marxist govt. Too many people in Labour strongholds would keep their tribal loyalty and not vote for Farage in a GE. 

It astonishes me that Remainer Tories believe No Deal is worse than a Corbyn government. Could they really commit this treachery? 

They have a court case ,and if they can find some one with the balls ,time on their side just do nothing let the clock run down ,te EU has made it clear they wont negotiate just do fuck all and say the EU won`t play 

As for forcing an election ,that`s voting for for a P45 and they know it ,it`s brinksmanship at every level ,you just need someone with the balls to call their bluff 

It`s also quite clear Steptoe has not got a chance in hell of being elected ,a GE now would be akin to a referendum but with one maybe two parties standing for leave one for remain and the others fighting between themselves trying to decide what side on the fence they are on ,whilst team reds electorate are majority leave 

Edited by Long time lurking

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5 hours ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

I don’t think they believe the Brexit Party can translate the victory in this EU election into a General Election, they think it’s a protest vote and voters will return to type in a GE.  It’s true that there are places which historically always vote Labour or Conservative in a GE, and IMO it might be difficult for old Labour supporters to vote for the kind of candidate Farage puts up. I suspect Corbyn will end up in government.  

But you’re right that the majority of the traitor Tories would lose their seats. From voting Tory to voting BP is less of a change to type. 

Hmm. It’d be much closer than many think IMO. If Labour switch to full-on Remain they’ll recover all the LibDem voters and although they’ll lose many in the north to Brexit Party, not all will do it.  Let’s face it, in the last 20 years not a single working-class voter, all of whom have been totally abandoned by Labour, should have voted for them, but they still have done because they’re stuck in their 1960s class war mentality. 

If the last referendum was a GE labour constituencies overwhelmingly voted leave 

If there is any truth in the lab /lib conversion it will be due to comparing apples and oranges as in First past the post (GE) /proportional representation (EU) 

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14 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

They have a court case ,and if they can find some one with the balls ,time on their side just do nothing let the clock run down ,te EU has made it clear they wont negotiate just do fuck all and say the EU won`t play 

As for forcing an election ,that`s voting for for a P45 and they know it ,it`s brinksmanship at every level ,you just need someone with the balls to call their bluff 

It`s also quite clear Steptoe has not got a chance in hell of being elected ,a GE now would be akin to a referendum but with one maybe two parties standing for leave one for remain and the others fighting between themselves trying to decide what side on the fence they are on ,whilst team reds electorate are majority leave  

They got away with sitting on the fence last time, claiming they would honour the result. The reality has been nothing of the sort and so would need to make a firm commitment one way or the other.

I suspect a vast majority of Labour MPs would be on the remain side, but it's going to be political suicide to enshrine it in a manifesto.

UKIP were decimated at the last general election, I don't think they were ever that viable, safe to vote for in the EU elections, but too toxic for government. While there will be a lot of mud slung at the Brexit Party by standing on a single issue they might be able to avoid too much damage. The Peterborough election will be the acid test on that font.

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1 minute ago, gilf said:

They got away with sitting on the fence last time, claiming they would honour the result. The reality has been nothing of the sort and so would need to make a firm commitment one way or the other.

I suspect a vast majority of Labour MPs would be on the remain side, but it's going to be political suicide to enshrine it in a manifesto.

UKIP were decimated at the last general election, I don't think they were ever that viable, safe to vote for in the EU elections, but too toxic for government. While there will be a lot of mud slung at the Brexit Party by standing on a single issue they might be able to avoid too much damage. The Peterborough election will be the acid test on that font.

My whole point there ,there electorate are majority leave 

Team red a few months ago were crowing from the roof tops for a GE ,the silence is now deafening IMO they are in a far worse situation than the Cons  

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38 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

My whole point there ,there electorate are majority leave 

Team red a few months ago were crowing from the roof tops for a GE ,the silence is now deafening IMO they are in a far worse situation than the Cons  

The Conservative Party problem is it’s MPs  not it’s members or indeed most of its voters. 

The Labour Party problems run far deeper as they have bought into identity politics in a big way and now that is blowing up in their faces. It beggars belief that a party founded on the principle of unity and the brotherhood of man could have got so enraged in trying to woo sectional interests. The Labour Jews v Palestinian sympathisers is a case in point or Muslims v LBQT

Incidentally that is not to take sides in the argument because there is more than enough hypocrisy on all sides in the Labour debacle. In particular there is some truth in the claim that Jewish Labour members have applied some double standards on the issue of identity over the years since they want to retain their own distinct brand and support the idea of a special Jewish homeland while expecting the rest of the world to eschew national interests and to adopt globalism and cosmopolitanism. 

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