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MrPin

Green Virtue Hypocrisy

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Drax Power Station, in Yorkshire, burns coal and biomass, ie wood chips.

Here they are claiming to save the planet.....

https://www.drax.com/about-us/our-businesses/

Caught a TV program in the early hours about big ships. I like big ships, due to my time in a bogus navy.

This particular "big ship" was a bulk carrier of enormous size in America, filling up with wood chips, for export to Yorkshire.

Now in my limited nautical experience, I reckon it must must have burned over 400 tonnes of diesel getting there. Does this make sense?

 

 

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Just now, Hopeful said:

We used to be self sufficient in the production of shutterply from 'waste' wood - now, because green energy generation pays a premium for the raw wood material we became a net importer of the stuff - so more carbon miles.

We used to recycle beer and lemonade bottles. Now recycling means being crushed for road use. The bit under the tarmac.

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2 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

We used to be self sufficient in the production of shutterply from 'waste' wood - now, because green energy generation pays a premium for the raw wood material we became a net importer of the stuff - so more carbon miles. Unintended consequences of naive wannabee environmentalists (minsters) fucking with market forces.

Second that - was talking to a forrester on the Oban ferry, all their production now goes to biomass, meaning much less for chipboard which means higher prices and more imports. Tick box greening with hue subsidies and extra costs for the taxpayer.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, onlyme said:

Second that - was talking to a forrester on the Oban ferry, all their production now goes to biomass, meaning much less for chipboard which means higher prices and more imports. Tick box greening with hue subsidies and extra costs for the taxpayer.

 

We're just outsourcing our carbon footprint to other countries. Clever but pointless, and counterproductive

Burning carbon from plants and animals to generate electricity does not create long-term global warming as more plants and animals will grow to consume the CO2 produced. It is good.

Burning fossil carbon creates long-term gobal warming, as new life does not consume the CO2 at the rate we are producing it.

Using fossil fuel to transport plant material because you have burned the plant material to be green is therefore, nutty.

 

 

Edited by Hopeful

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1 hour ago, MrPin said:

Drax Power Station, in Yorkshire, burns coal and biomass, ie wood chips.

Here they are claiming to save the planet.....

https://www.drax.com/about-us/our-businesses/

Caught a TV program in the early hours about big ships. I like big ships, due to my time in a bogus navy.

This particular "big ship" was a bulk carrier of enormous size in America, filling up with wood chips, for export to Yorkshire.

Now in my limited nautical experience, I reckon it must must have burned over 400 tonnes of diesel getting there. Does this make sense?

 

 

There had been a program about how we bundle waste up, stick it on a ship and send it to Sweden for them to burn for energy.

Madness.

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Just now, sarahbell said:

There had been a program about how we bundle waste up, stick it on a ship and send it to Sweden for them to burn for energy.

Madness.

Not if you are in shipping.xD. Doesn't Sweden grow enough trees?

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1 minute ago, MrPin said:

Like India?

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/sweden-s-recycling-is-so-revolutionary-the-country-has-run-out-of-rubbish-a7462976.html

 

Sweden is so good at recycling that, for several years, it has imported rubbish from other countries to keep its recycling plants going. Less than 1 per cent of Swedish household waste was sent to landfill last year or any year since 2011.

We can only dream of such an effective system in the UK, which is why we end up paying expensive transport costs to send rubbish to be recycled overseas rather than paying fines to send it to landfill under The Landfill Tax of 1996. 

 

Two years later though:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sweden-recycling-rates-revolutionary-dark-truth-behind-uk-wales-incineration-a7471861.html

 

The dark truth behind Sweden's 'revolutionary' recycling schemes

 

Sweden considers incinerating waste to be recycling it – and Britain is making the same mistake

 

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1 hour ago, MrPin said:

Drax Power Station, in Yorkshire, burns coal and biomass, ie wood chips.

Here they are claiming to save the planet.....

https://www.drax.com/about-us/our-businesses/

Caught a TV program in the early hours about big ships. I like big ships, due to my time in a bogus navy.

This particular "big ship" was a bulk carrier of enormous size in America, filling up with wood chips, for export to Yorkshire.

Now in my limited nautical experience, I reckon it must must have burned over 400 tonnes of diesel getting there. Does this make sense?

 

 

Don't get me started Mr Pin.

Biomass burning is indeed a shitshow. A waste of perfectly good wood. As bad as biofuel from palm oil.

Some of the initiatives are thought up by folk with no practical knowledge. There's so much we could be doing better if we had a government with the will and capability.

For example, if we want to get serious about plastic we could ban exports of plastic waste, insisting that everything is either recycled here or incinerated for power generation. Wre should also be burning our black plastic bags of rubbish too and only sending ash to landfill.

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2 hours ago, MrPin said:

Drax Power Station, in Yorkshire, burns coal and biomass, ie wood chips.

Here they are claiming to save the planet.....

https://www.drax.com/about-us/our-businesses/

Caught a TV program in the early hours about big ships. I like big ships, due to my time in a bogus navy.

This particular "big ship" was a bulk carrier of enormous size in America, filling up with wood chips, for export to Yorkshire.

Now in my limited nautical experience, I reckon it must must have burned over 400 tonnes of diesel getting there. Does this make sense?

 

 

Never fear. I seem to recall they are well on the way to making all 6 run on biomass. 

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Just now, The Generation Game 🙌 said:

Never fear. I seem to recall they are well on the way to making all 6 run on biomass. 

They used to run on local coal. Was that so bad?

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, MrPin said:

They used to run on local coal. Was that so bad?

yes, if there is a way of generating leccy that doesn't use fossil fuel, and in the absence of carbon capture

Edited by Hopeful

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1 minute ago, The Generation Game 🙌 said:

Go a few miles further east and you can see the world's biggest wind farm. 

That's probably a better idea, when it's windy. My point was, is it wise to ship wood pulp half way around the world, for "environmental" reasons.

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1 hour ago, Hopeful said:

 

We're just outsourcing our carbon footprint to other countries. Clever but pointless, and counterproductive

Burning carbon from plants and animals to generate electricity does not create long-term global warming as more plants and animals will grow to consume the CO2 produced. It is good.

Burning fossil carbon creates long-term gobal warming, as new life does not consume the CO2 at the rate we are producing it.

Using fossil fuel to transport plant material because you have burned the plant material to be green is therefore, nutty.

 

 

Have you tried mentioning this to anyone in real life though? I suspect you will be met with a blank look, or possibly a shrieking harpy. The worrying thing is that many people believe the politicians are making a positive difference. And even if it can be shown that the opposite is true, the shrieking harpies will switch to the 'at least they're trying' mindset. Quite how it helps the environment by making things worse albeit through good intentions, I have no clue.

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8 minutes ago, MrPin said:

That's probably a better idea, when it's windy. My point was, is it wise to ship wood pulp half way around the world, for "environmental" reasons.

No but what does the "bottom line" (made up of numbers on a screen) say? Oops, we forgot this one-off contingent liability of 10 trillion pounds due to environmental impact. 

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2 hours ago, onlyme said:

Second that - was talking to a forrester on the Oban ferry, all their production now goes to biomass, meaning much less for chipboard which means higher prices and more imports. Tick box greening with hue subsidies and extra costs for the taxpayer.

A sheet of 5/8"plywood costs £80 in a DIY store these days. I used to be about £25 not very long ago :o

 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, spunko said:

Have you tried mentioning this to anyone in real life though? I suspect you will be met with a blank look, or possibly a shrieking harpy. The worrying thing is that many people believe the politicians are making a positive difference. And even if it can be shown that the opposite is true, the shrieking harpies will switch to the 'at least they're trying' mindset. Quite how it helps the environment by making things worse albeit through good intentions, I have no clue.

Yes, to both politicians and very large public audiences.

It is really very simple to understand it, at least I think it is. But you do have to be interested in 'nature'.

All you need is an understanding of how carbon cycles on planet earth through the atmosphere, life and rocks, we call it the carbon cycle, and how the cycling of carbon can be partitioned into short-term (10s-1000s of years) and long-term cycles (100s of thousands to millenia).

Once you grasp that, it is a no-brainer, everything falls into place.

Unfortunately, only a small handful of MPs have any interest in nature, if the criterion is those with a science education beyond 'A' level.

In the 2015 intake those with a science degree numbered 26 out of 650 or 4% of MPs

To be fair, many environmentalists couldn't even describe the carbon cycle.

And, as an example of MPs, I have spoken to many that think coal and oil are rocks that the earth was 'born' with; they had no comprehension that they are biological, were once CO2 in the atmosphere, and that they represent a store of the sun's energy. You could call it a failure of our education system, I suppose.

 

Edited by Hopeful

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1 minute ago, Hopeful said:

Yes, to both politicians and very large public audiences.

It is really very simple to understand it, at least I think it is. But you do have to be interested in 'nature'.

All you need is an understanding of how carbon cycles on planet earth through the atmosphere, life and rocks, we call it the the carbon cycle, and how the cycling of carbon can be partitioned into short-term (10s-1000s of years) and long-term cycles (100s of thousands to millenia).

Once you grasp that, it is a no-brainer, everything falls into place.

Unfortunately, only a small handful of MPs have any interest in nature, if the criterion is those with a science education beyond 'A' level.

In the 2015 intake those with a science degree numbered 26 out of 650 or 4%

 

How many were lawyers?

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