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One percent

Hunt pledges to update treason laws

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https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9453422/jeremy-hunt-treason-laws-terrorists/

BRITISH jihadis will be handed a lifetime jail term under treason laws proposed by PM candidate Jeremy Hunt.

The Tory leadership hopeful will update laws to prosecute those who support groups willing to attack the UK and our military.

 

Mind nothing new, it’s been debated in the lords and by bishops. See for example 

https://www.premier.org.uk/News/World/Bishop-joins-calls-for-treason-laws-to-be-updated-to-avoid-death-penalty

A discussion about treason and the death penalty arose on Wednesday, prompted by the potential death sentence facing two British Jihadists.

Home Secretary Sajid Javid allowed two British men who chose to fight for IS in Syria, Alexander Kotey and El Shafee Elsheikh, to be sent to America and be tried there, where they could be given a death sentence.

It prompted the think tank The Policy Exchange to call for our treason laws to be updated from 1351 so that betrayal against the state could be punished by a life sentence. 

 

Im thinking empty rhetoric, watch what they do, not what they say 

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Anything that gets an honest conversation about "Brits" that hate Britain has to be a good thing. Ken Clarke says that the Shamima Begum is as "British as us". Who doesn't want the viewpoints of traitors like him exposed?

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1 minute ago, Great Guy said:

Anything that gets an honest conversation about "Brits" that hate Britain has to be a good thing. Ken Clarke says that the Shamima Begum is as "British as us". Who doesn't want the viewpoints of traitors like him exposed?

Given that he's an EU fanatic desperate to abolish Britain then Begum probably is as British as he is since they both despise it.

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I couldn't give less of a toss about Hunt or the Tory party if I tried. When you're as obseqious, vaccillating, unoriginal and ineffectual as he is, I'm surprised others do. 

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32 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Brexit is 95% of what matters because for the next year at least it is all that they will be able to do.

Everything else is sheer flanelling for column inches.

Very true it’s the gift that keeps on giving 

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4 minutes ago, spunko said:

I couldn't give less of a toss about Hunt or the Tory party if I tried. When you're as obseqious, vaccillating, unoriginal and ineffectual as he is, I'm surprised others do. 

They hold the power over Brexit so it matters this time.

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1 minute ago, spunko said:

I couldn't give less of a toss about Hunt or the Tory party if I tried. When you're as obseqious, vaccillating, unoriginal and ineffectual as he is, I'm surprised others do. 

Yes. My parents have been in Bognor Regis all week. But obviously still in touch with the media, as their first question on me picking them up from the bus yesterday was what did I think of Boris being in Darlo on Friday. Which I honestly didn't even know. So I don't think they were too impressed with my response, which (paraphrased) was, why should I give a fuck?

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, spunko said:

I couldn't give less of a toss about Hunt or the Tory party if I tried. When you're as obseqious, vaccillating, unoriginal and ineffectual as he is, I'm surprised others do. 

Fuck the lot of them it’s all about haveing a laugh in life and avoiding paying into the system has much has possable  I’ve got a plumber comeing in 2 weeks he said card is ok I insisted on cash he was like thank you very much

Edited by stokiescum

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2 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

They hold the power over Brexit so it matters this time.

They hold no power of merit whatsoever as they're both Remainers. Frank, I do remember you being rather hopeful, circa 2017, that Treason wasn't actually a remainer even though she posed with a remain card and clearly always was... don't make the same mistake again, although I respect your positivity!

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44 minutes ago, One percent said:

It prompted the think tank The Policy Exchange to call for our treason laws to be updated from 1351 so that betrayal against the state could be punished by a life sentence. 

My concerns about this are these:

1 ). It’s reactionary..  don’t our existing laws cover this?  If not, then fine, but there should be flexibility..  not just treason = life sentence.

2 ) What does,  and what will constitute treason?   Could this be quietly expanded to a broader definition of dissent in future?  I’m sure plenty of left wing authoritarians would happily wave through such flexibility if the government wrapped it up in a sugar coating of life imprisonment for EDL founders who rally against the state machine..

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2 minutes ago, spunko said:

They hold no power of merit whatsoever as they're both Remainers. Frank, I do remember you being rather hopeful, circa 2017, that Treason wasn't actually a remainer even though she posed with a remain card and clearly always was... don't make the same mistake again, although I respect your positivity!

I’m still going with we won’t be leaveing

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, spunko said:

I couldn't give less of a toss about Hunt or the Tory party if I tried. When you're as obseqious, vaccillating, unoriginal and ineffectual as he is, I'm surprised others do. 

He is utterly appalling, surely remainers could have come up with a better candidate and backed them than this male version of the Maybot.

Amazes me that team Boris haven't attacked him for the crony capitalism that enabled him to make his millions and the nepotism that saw him take over the family seat in Surrey.

https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2012/10/10/revealed-at-last-the-hunt-bottomley-link/

As for new treason laws, surely people like Hammond,  May and the entire cabinet should be the first they're applied to.

Edited by Tdog

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8 minutes ago, spunko said:

They hold no power of merit whatsoever as they're both Remainers. Frank, I do remember you being rather hopeful, circa 2017, that Treason wasn't actually a remainer even though she posed with a remain card and clearly always was... don't make the same mistake again, although I respect your positivity!

I think it's a necessary positivity to stop me becoming angry.

If the Brexit vote had been lost then I would have started making active plans to retire abroad, on the same timescale as I planned to retire in this country, and that would have been well underway by now with a couple of years left to go.

As it I have assumed that we would leave and so have done nothing because I am happy to retire into a Britain that has left the EU.

I haven't burnt any boats but I will have lost thirty months of comfortable retirement if we don't leave.

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10 minutes ago, Tdog said:

He is utterly appalling, surely remainers could have come up with a better candidate and backed them than this male version of the Maybot.

Amazes me that team Boris haven't attacked him for the crony capitalism that enabled him to make his millions and the nepotism that saw him take over the family seat in Surrey.

https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2012/10/10/revealed-at-last-the-hunt-bottomley-link/

As for new treason laws, surely people like Hammond,  May and the entire cabinet should be the first they're applied to.

Why raise the issue of crony capitalism? Because each and every one of them could be tarred with the same brush!

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I live in China. My kids are born in China. They are English not Chinese. Any Pakistani Bangladeshi born in England to Pakistani parents are Pakistani not English. 

English is an ethnicity not a geographical birth right 

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I'd say part of the problem is 'what does treason mean'.

Not in the pure definition, but what it says about us and our community(ies).

In modern times, treason means spying, with a little potential for regicidists, propagandists (Haw Haw) and similar.  I think this is what people think of when they hear 'Treason' -- the lone wolf who's gone bad.

But what we have behind this talk of 'treason' is far closer to (public perception of) dissenters in the middle ages up to about the 18th Century -- organised groups that threatened the state, whether in massive groups (eg Cromwell) or in smaller but still actually large and organised groups (eg Fawlkes).  

So, the 'problem' with Hunt's proclamations is that he's thinking of 'how do we deal with Haw Haw / Anthony Blunt', whereas the actual problem is more like a small scale Fawlkes -- I can very much imagine the UK putting away one or two individuals over a decade using the treason laws, but if it is dozens a year then they're highlighting something they very much don't want people to notice.  (Which might be for good reasons -- the persecution of Catholics in the 16th and 17th century was real, even if only a very small minority were allied with the Habsburgs).

Anyway, like the religious wars in the 16/17th centuries the problem we have isn't one of 'how do we deal with the offence', but rather 'how do we stop the offence from happening', which the treason laws don't really stop (because 'the crime' is ideologically driven).

 

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Weren't the Treason Laws changed under Blair (for self-protection)?

Perhaps there should be a treasonable law such as 'reckless endangerment to the nation / economy / public life' which could be applied to politicians and civil servants who wreck the country.

That politicians get away scot-free with their decisions and policies (no mention in manifestos) is so wrong. We'll be paying for Major, Blair, Brown and May for generations.

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Alonso Quijano said:

Weren't the Treason Laws changed under Blair (for self-protection)?

Perhaps there should be a treasonable law such as 'reckless endangerment to the nation / economy / public life' which could be applied to politicians and civil servants who wreck the country.

That politicians get away scot-free with their decisions and policies (no mention in manifestos) is so wrong. We'll be paying for Major, Blair, Brown and May for generations.

Back in the 16th and 17th century if you made a balls up as a Servant of the Crown you quite often paid for it with your life as Thomas Cromwell, Sir Walter Raleigh and Thomas Wentworth Earl of Strafford found out.

Edited by Virgil Caine

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58 minutes ago, Button Moon said:

English is an ethnicity not a geographical birth right 

Technically it is probably both.

In a couple generations your kids will probably become accepted as ethnic Chinese too.

The problem isn’t so much inter-racial mixing..  that has happened since the homo sapiens and the Neanderthals,  more the current rate it is happening as populations globally have become freely and cheaply mobile.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, One percent said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9453422/jeremy-hunt-treason-laws-terrorists/

BRITISH jihadis will be handed a lifetime jail term under treason laws proposed by PM candidate Jeremy Hunt.

The Tory leadership hopeful will update laws to prosecute those who support groups willing to attack the UK and our military.

 

Mind nothing new, it’s been debated in the lords and by bishops. See for example 

https://www.premier.org.uk/News/World/Bishop-joins-calls-for-treason-laws-to-be-updated-to-avoid-death-penalty

A discussion about treason and the death penalty arose on Wednesday, prompted by the potential death sentence facing two British Jihadists.

Home Secretary Sajid Javid allowed two British men who chose to fight for IS in Syria, Alexander Kotey and El Shafee Elsheikh, to be sent to America and be tried there, where they could be given a death sentence.

It prompted the think tank The Policy Exchange to call for our treason laws to be updated from 1351 so that betrayal against the state could be punished by a life sentence. 

 

Im thinking empty rhetoric, watch what they do, not what they say 

How populist ,we already have treason laws you fuckwit

If anything needs up dating it`s human rights laws and legal aid concerning them -start with a revers no win no fee -you lose you pay and buy that i mean the shysters doing the  representing pay the cost of both sides 

Then we can all short human rights lawyers 

Edited by Long time lurking

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2 hours ago, One percent said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9453422/jeremy-hunt-treason-laws-terrorists/

BRITISH jihadis will be handed a lifetime jail term under treason laws proposed by PM candidate Jeremy Hunt.

The Tory leadership hopeful will update laws to prosecute those who support groups willing to attack the UK and our military.

 

Mind nothing new, it’s been debated in the lords and by bishops. See for example 

https://www.premier.org.uk/News/World/Bishop-joins-calls-for-treason-laws-to-be-updated-to-avoid-death-penalty

A discussion about treason and the death penalty arose on Wednesday, prompted by the potential death sentence facing two British Jihadists.

Home Secretary Sajid Javid allowed two British men who chose to fight for IS in Syria, Alexander Kotey and El Shafee Elsheikh, to be sent to America and be tried there, where they could be given a death sentence.

It prompted the think tank The Policy Exchange to call for our treason laws to be updated from 1351 so that betrayal against the state could be punished by a life sentence. 

 

Im thinking empty rhetoric, watch what they do, not what they say 

Call me old fashioned, whats wrong with being hung drawn n quartered?

 

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1 hour ago, Alonso Quijano said:

Weren't the Treason Laws changed under Blair (for self-protection)?

Perhaps there should be a treasonable law such as 'reckless endangerment to the nation / economy / public life' which could be applied to politicians and civil servants who wreck the country.

That politicians get away scot-free with their decisions and policies (no mention in manifestos) is so wrong. We'll be paying for Major, Blair, Brown and May for generations.

Both Major n May sat around, not really making things worse.

To be honest, the Major years were the best I experienced in my adult years.

It just goes to show if you want a stable, growing economy, the best thing is for to have Pols doign fuck all and keeping out of life.

Contrast that with Blair and Brown who made a number of very significant changes to the UK, all for the extreme worse, culminating in half of Somalia coming over to live on benefits in London at ~200 years of banking equity blowing up.

 

2 hours ago, Great Guy said:

Anything that gets an honest conversation about "Brits" that hate Britain has to be a good thing. Ken Clarke says that the Shamima Begum is as "British as us". Who doesn't want the viewpoints of traitors like him exposed?

I still dont think the Shamina nationality has been proved one way or another.

Did her father have British citizenship? Id guess he onyl had a work permit.

 

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