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sarahbell

Pensions. Again. But a different problem

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-48903913

Consultants have begun refusing to work beyond their planned hours after receiving unexpected tax bills, following new pension rules in 2016.

But those near the threshold have few options to avoid the impact, other than reducing their hours, quitting the NHS pension scheme or taking early retirement.

 

 

The limit on the annual allowance has come down from £255,000 a year in 2010-11, to £40,000 a year for those earning broadly less than £110,000 in 2018-19.

In addition, a tapered annual allowance was introduced in 2016 for higher earners. This means that the annual allowance is reduced by £1 for every £2 earned, says the British Medical Association (BMA).

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Plus they've increased the NHS pension scheme age inline with SRA. You think those doctors want to wait until 68 to get their dough without significant penalty?

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2 minutes ago, ccc said:

They were working weekends to help with waiting lists ? 9_9

I would guess most were doing extra hours to help with their bank balances.

The solution is to have more doctors. So none of them have to do overtime and they can all get a nice tidy salary without incurring lots of tax.

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"Because of the way the allowance is calculated many consultants will face a significant tax bill even if their earnings are only just above £110,000 a year.

NHS Providers, which represents hospital trusts, said senior staff were now saying they could not afford to work at weekends to bring waiting lists down."

violin.gif

5 minutes ago, ccc said:

They were working weekends to help with waiting lists ? 9_9

I would guess most were doing extra hours to help with their bank balances.

Aren't they all balls deep into BTL too? Those things don't pay for themselves you know...

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They can stop this problem simply by opting out of the NHS pension.

To be fair to them, the NHS pension is so good they'd be mad to, even with these penalties.  Perhaps the problem is the pension is too good?  (pr, perhaps, if a pension is much much better than can be provided by the private sector then this needs to be mentioned when discussing other aspects of their remuneration).

Anyway, this problem could be solved instantly by allowing the NHS pension members to reduce their contributions once they've reached one/more of various thresholds.  The reason that this isn't done is that the NHS is a huge lumbering monster that can't actually do stuff that makes sense without immense effort -- ie, the usual problem.

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6 minutes ago, BadAlchemy said:

"Because of the way the allowance is calculated many consultants will face a significant tax bill even if their earnings are only just above £110,000 a year.

NHS Providers, which represents hospital trusts, said senior staff were now saying they could not afford to work at weekends to bring waiting lists down."

violin.gif

Aren't they all balls deep into BTL too? Those things don't pay for themselves you know...

Wasn`t there a thread on hear about a NHS diversity officer from Brighton  ? who was sacked for racism xD who was on £110k 

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Just now, Long time lurking said:

Wasn`t there a thread on hear about a NHS diversity officer from Brighton  ? who was sacked for racism xD who was on £110k 

If I could be paid that, for racism, I would do it more.

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26 minutes ago, ccc said:

They were working weekends to help with waiting lists ? 9_9

I would guess most were doing extra hours to help with their bank balances.

yes, same as the reason most people work extra hours, for the money. Take that incentive away via tax and workers reduce their hours. It's why socialism never works, 99.9% of people don't work for alturistic reasons.

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I remember back in the good old 1980s being staff and getting paid time and a half for overtime in the week, fouble time at weekends plus double time and a day off in lieu for bank holidays.

Life was great.

Exyra hours were worth it.

Now if I work overtime I effectively get less per hour as it is paid at plain time.

Its crap.

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49 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

The ruled are the same for everyone so it's strange that it's being painted as a particular NHS problem.

The answer for the individual is simple: if you don't think it's worth working then don't.

The answer for the NHS is simple: ignore the BMA's restrictive practices and start training enough Doctors.

Two changes, applies to GPs as well as hospital consultants.

Stop recruiting part time GPs.

Since Brown doubled - yep doubled - GPs money, the number of FT GPs has fallen massively.

It causes massive problems as it halves your chance of the idiot GP filing or recording stuff.

 

Simple choice - work for NHS. Or work for a private medical company. No moonlighting.

Does anyone here work for a company that would let you work for a competitor?

 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

The ruled are the same for everyone so it's strange that it's being painted as a particular NHS problem.

The answer for the individual is simple: if you don't think it's worth working then don't.

The answer for the NHS is simple: ignore the BMA's restrictive practices and start training enough Doctors.

Spot on Frank.

It is a supply side problem.

The solution is to train more Doctors 

The problem is government and civil servants have become accustomed to stealing other countries resources.

For various reasons that may not be an option in the future.

Edited by Virgil Caine

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6 hours ago, dgul said:

They can stop this problem simply by opting out of the NHS pension.

To be fair to them, the NHS pension is so good they'd be mad to, even with these penalties.  Perhaps the problem is the pension is too good?  (pr, perhaps, if a pension is much much better than can be provided by the private sector then this needs to be mentioned when discussing other aspects of their remuneration).

Anyway, this problem could be solved instantly by allowing the NHS pension members to reduce their contributions once they've reached one/more of various thresholds.  The reason that this isn't done is that the NHS is a huge lumbering monster that can't actually do stuff that makes sense without immense effort -- ie, the usual problem.

I know anecdotaly many are doing this. They retire with full pension, back a few weeks later..largely same job..the experience means they walk back in....minus nhs pension contribution.

Financially better for them. I dont know how this pairs off with total costs to the NHS.

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6 hours ago, MrPin said:

If I could be paid that, for racism, I would do it more.

:)

I've just sent you a tenner - call me a honky, Northern, monkey-hanging cunt you bitch...!!!

;)

 

XYY

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24 minutes ago, The XYY Man said:

:)

I've just sent you a tenner - call me a honky, Northern, monkey-hanging cunt you bitch...!!!

;)

 

XYY

Well you call me "turniphead"....

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9 minutes ago, MrPin said:

Well you call me "turniphead"....

Yeah, but I do that for friggin' nowt..!

You capitalist oppressor, you.

Come the glorious day citizen, you're first against the fucking wall...

;)

 

XYY

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7 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

The answer for the NHS is simple: ignore the BMA's restrictive practices and start training enough Doctors.

That's probably the heart of it, but if you were in charge for a day (or, more likely if spy were, since he almost got the UC contract already, and will probably be called in at some point to use his regex and haskell skills to rescue the integrated UK government IT system - once it's been completely migrated to excel and facebook), then it may be worth thinking about unintended consequences.

I have a vague recollection that this "just train more doctors" thing was tried in the US several decades ago, with the explicit intention of bringing down heath care costs, which were even then getting monstrous. The result was, indeed, many more doctors, but the salaries went up.

Instead of more "doctors", what happened was a diversification of specialisms. Clearly some combination of a fully-privatised system, perverse incentives from medical insurance, and the strength of the doctors' associations, managed to undermine the free market, but it would be worth understanding what happened a bit better so we don't replicate the problem here. 

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