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Sasquatch

Diary of a house sale....post covid

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

This might be an interesting thread at this current point in time? (please keep vaguely on topic......please! No discussions about V8 engines or the price of garibaldi biscuits)

We are selling our house. I won't put up any specific details for obvious reasons but happy to share some generalities for you delectation.

We moved here just over 2 years ago (primarily for business reasons). From a very nice but quite remote country house to a relatively sad 20 year old city house. We don't regret the move from the old house as it was not somewhere we wanted to be long term. We didn't like the new house but it had potential.

Being city based now has been a great help for our business for the last two years but we now have our eye on retirement/semi retirement which hopefully we kick in around 2023. We would like to sell ahead of this date and will move into rented if we have to or buy if the right property comes up (although this might be tricky in the short term for our business for geographic reasons)

We've spend quite a bit on the new house (new kitchen, new utility, new bathrooms, new flooring, major refurb of the conservatory, full redecoration, fully remodelled garden from previous jungle state, other general improvements). It is now a 'move straight in' property with all mod cons and low maintenance. It ticks all the boxes - great position, fantastic views, detached, private cul de sac, double garage, extra parking, nice garden but easy to maintain, 4/5 bedrooms, 2/3 receptions, 3 bathrooms. Way more than we need. The city is also very popular and on the up (at least it was pre covid). It was valued last October by three agents. All valued at the same amount and this is £75,000 more than our initial purchase price + refurb spend. Therefore we can knock £75,000 off the price and end up in a cost neutral situation. We are happy to do this (as we are not mad). We had three viewings in early March and all were interested but obviously everything stopped shortly after. One of the viewing parties was a true cash buyer and they were the most keen. 

Price wise we are way above the average house price for this area but then we have a rare house for this part of the city. Probably only 4 or 5 properties offering the same on the market at the moment. 

Our agent says things are picking up but I don't believe anything that an estate agent tells me (who does!). No new viewings yet. If it's going to happen I think it needs to be in the next 3 months or so before we head into the autumn and the financial situation becomes more apparent to the masses. 

I am hoping that someone will view, put in a cheeky offer which we then accept and they think they've got a bargain. That is basically our plan! Obviously we need people through the door for this to happen.

I'll give as much anecdotal info as I can going forward.

Good Luck Sasquatch. 

In summer 2007 I had already tried to sell my house for a 1 year...I dropped the price till someone eventually put in a cheeky offer 10K more than  I'd paid for it 2 years earlier.  I bit their hand off.  They only lost £40-50K nominally on it and took 4 years to sell it some idiot from London.

The agent is lying..."things are picking up"..."no viewings"....things not picking up.

Will be interesting to hear how you get on.  The MSM/Establishment clearly want the bubble to restart where it left off.

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

I am hoping that someone will view, put in a cheeky offer which we then accept and they think they've got a bargain. That is basically our plan! Obviously we need people through the door for this to happen.

I'll give as much anecdotal info as I can going forward.

I was all lined up to buy a place and have now kicking it into touch due to the almost certain prospect of a really bad recession. This is more due to me expecting prices to fall than my own work prospects.

I told the agent to call me when they want to drop the price by at least 20% but they all but laughed saying how busy they were etc.

We will see I guess.

EDIT: My advice would be if you get some buyer who believes this hype about some sort of post lockdown mini-boom then rip their arm off.

Edited by goldbug9999

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11 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

It's been 4 hours since my initial post and the house still hasn't sold. :PissedOff:

Did I say I was impatient?

Can't you just rent it out ?

3 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

I was all lined up to buy a place and have now kicking it into touch due to the almost certain prospect of a really bad recession. This is more due to me expecting prices to fall than my own work prospects.

I told the agent to call me when they want to drop the price by at least 20% but they all but laughed saying how busy they were etc.

We will see I guess.

They'll come begging soon enough.

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5 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

I was all lined up to buy a place and have now kicking it into touch due to the almost certain prospect of a really bad recession. This is more due to me expecting prices to fall than my own work prospects.

I told the agent to call me when they want to drop the price by at least 20% but they all but laughed saying how busy they were etc.

We will see I guess.

Thanks for cheering me up. Just what I needed! :CryBaby:

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

Thanks for cheering me up. Just what I needed! :CryBaby:

Put it out at a healthy discount now and get ahead of the coming melt down is my advice. I'm expecting it to take 6 months for the falls to really start materialising. Obviously don't wait to find somewhere to buy - move to rented if need be.

Edited by goldbug9999

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funny you should mention knocking off £75k......I bought in 2008 when I wanted to rent but the boss bitch at the time (now divorced) wouldn't rent.....

so I offered £75k off the asking price of £550k.....at first I got laughed at (it had been up at dreamy £610k), then a month later they came back and said we could have it.....

wish I hadn't bothered, lost £30k selling it 4 years later xD

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20 minutes ago, 5min OCD speculator said:

funny you should mention knocking off £75k......I bought in 2008 when I wanted to rent but the boss bitch at the time (now divorced) wouldn't rent.....

so I offered £75k off the asking price of £550k.....at first I got laughed at (it had been up at dreamy £610k), then a month later they came back and said we could have it.....

wish I hadn't bothered, lost £30k selling it 4 years later xD

Bollocks, you can't lose on pwopatee

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3 minutes ago, leonardratso said:

have you seen the prices of V8 garibaldis? Im flabbergasted at the high fuel consumption and price. 

Hey, Mr Pin we've been beaten to it by some upstart wannabe thread diverter.:Old:

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Sasquatch - you sound pretty grounded fellow (you're here after all). As you know house prices are the last bastion of the UK groupthink. The 'hot potato' of successive governments, crashes are not vote winners after all. Better to spin the plates and kick the can down the road etc. A lot here were from previous HPC forum so expect a rather one sided viewpoint.

Having said that....lets run the numbers.

5.25 million BTL properties owned by 2.7 million BTL landlords in the UK. 59% of BTL landlords are over 55. These statistics have been skewed obviously by successive incentives i.e. right to buy, low interest rates, tax incentives and HPI incentives like help to buy. Heaven forbid reality strikes the boomer (and I use that term lightly - but apt) mentality when furlough ends in a few months.

We have over 6 million furloughed, and may be more expecting to lose their jobs through redundancy.  A lot of over leveraged debt in renting out housing and HMOs in the cities will not be viable. A lack of employment will mean people either return home or seek social housing. 

BTL landlords will finally start to get the hint the gig is up. Do they take on housing benefit tenants? Or do they sell up to avoid months of non-payment and eviction hassle?

The whole supply/demand narrative will be turned on its head by the end of the year. I think we'll be seeing a lot running for the exits.

For that reason Im out... sorry too much isolation TV watching.

All in all, I expect a flurry of transactions over the month or so, and sales going for pre-COVID prices as months of backlogs clear. Expect Nationwide and Halifax statistics to be up 1000% month on month!

Different story by the end of the year. I have to manage this myself in a trade-off of selling my zone 3 London flat (no mortgage) in the next year and making use of the 10 year low fixes that may not be around in the future on a house away from London.

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Sideysid said:

All in all, I expect a flurry of transactions over the month or so, and sales going for pre-COVID prices as months of backlogs clear. Expect Nationwide and Halifax statistics to be up 1000% month on month!

Different story by the end of the year. I have to manage this myself in a trade-off of selling my zone 3 London flat (no mortgage) in the next year and making use of the 10 year low fixes that may not be around in the future on a house away from London.

I'm inclined to agree with this. Mrs S is more chilled than I am (I should listen more to her - she is wise) but I have a fear that we have a relatively short window of opportunity to get this house sold. It's expensive for this part of the world and way above the means of most. It does offer a lot though and is rare. This is our 6th owned house in 28 years (with a short rental back in the mid 90's). We have always sold easily and I think within 5% of asking price each time. This one is giving me the most concern. Without covid I'm convinced we would have sold by now and would be in rented. 

I don't think we'll drop the price yet. I'd rather give someone a healthy discount as this taps into basic human instinct of getting a bargain (even if it's a false bargain like most "sales")

Best of luck with your sale. Interested to hear you are getting out of London. We have heard anecdotally that this is seriously being considered by lots of people. It might help us as well as we are on a direct rail line to London.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sasquatch said:

I'm inclined to agree with this. Mrs S is more chilled than I am (I should listen more to her - she is wise) but I have a fear that we have a relatively short window of opportunity to get this house sold. It's expensive for this part of the world and way above the means of most. It does offer a lot though and is rare. This is our 6th owned house in 28 years (with a short rental back in the mid 90's). We have always sold easily and I think within 5% of asking price each time. This one is giving me the most concern. Without covid I'm convinced we would have sold by now and would be in rented. 

I don't think we'll drop the price yet. I'd rather give someone a healthy discount as this taps into basic human instinct of getting a bargain (even if it's a false bargain like most "sales")

Best of luck with your sale. Interested to hear you are getting out of London. We have heard anecdotally that this is seriously being considered by lots of people. It might help us as well as we are on a direct rail line to London.

The higher up the chain you are, the more financially exposed to a downturn, so yes I would agree that there is a shorter window of opportunity. Although I would say in the next year or so, the drops will hit the cities harder than other areas (like the wealthy buying up Cornwall to work from home) until inflation rises.

With myself, I'm planning on however much mine drops by, will be less in loss than the houses further up the chain I'm looking at. My gauge is the last decade, if some greater London areas have risen 100% in the last 10 years, they have farther to fall. But I think there will be a sweet spot on the willingness of the banks to lend and low rate interest rate 10 year mortgages vs house prices in a recession/depression and banks restricting lending.

Edited by Sideysid

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They'll definitely be a lag.  They'll be some stored up demand amongst the consumer drones, and this includes houses, not just plastic tat etc.  If you can snag a buyer and get the deal over the line by the end of November then I think you'll be OK.  I don't think the full scale of how bad things will be will start to dawn on people until 2021. I'm casually looking on rightmove but most stuff is insane pricing for the usual shit.  Its highly unlikely I'll even view a property this year. 

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6 minutes ago, Iamcynical said:

They'll definitely be a lag.  They'll be some stored up demand amongst the consumer drones, and this includes houses, not just plastic tat etc. 

I'm expecting to see a short economic post covid honeymoon before reality bites.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

I'm expecting to see a short economic post covid honeymoon before reality bites.

Could be a while for houses to really tank like you say as the CBs are fully engaged at the moment with unlimited liquidity pumping and pretty much monetizing £300 billion to £600 billion.The real fun for house prices will start once the economy stops collapsing and the CBs stop monetizing.Thats the point governments have to face real tax increase and real structural deficits.If i was selling an above average priced house id undercut others and get it done as quickly as i could.Every tailwind since 82 is turning into a headwind.HTB and BTL should be where the real pain is felt pretty quickly.I expect HTB new build estates inflation adjusted wont see the highs again in a couple of lifetimes if ever before they are demolished.Nominal maybe in around a decade as inflation roars,but even that is a real push.

Edited by DurhamBorn

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10 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

I'm inclined to agree with this. Mrs S is more chilled than I am (I should listen more to her - she is wise) but I have a fear that we have a relatively short window of opportunity to get this house sold. It's expensive for this part of the world and way above the means of most. It does offer a lot though and is rare. This is our 6th owned house in 28 years (with a short rental back in the mid 90's). We have always sold easily and I think within 5% of asking price each time. This one is giving me the most concern. Without covid I'm convinced we would have sold by now and would be in rented. 

I don't think we'll drop the price yet. I'd rather give someone a healthy discount as this taps into basic human instinct of getting a bargain (even if it's a false bargain like most "sales")

Best of luck with your sale. Interested to hear you are getting out of London. We have heard anecdotally that this is seriously being considered by lots of people. It might help us as well as we are on a direct rail line to London.

The problem with rare is that you have a limited pool of potential customers, they know it when it comes to buy, and due to rarity market ( and buyers) finds it difficult to price. As a result all of these factors combined make the next owner think likewise when they have to sell and so also have to offer a discount.

Think you have the right idea, get the punter thinking they have an amazing deal, worrying you may change your mind and so ensuring a quick/uneventful sale, just before market/economy sours and prices/sales drop.

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The house by me is SSTC on rightmove. 
A car pulled up yesterday with a man with a mask. A brown man. Not important to me but as we were sat on our back step we heard the man next door to the house say in a very disgruntled way "Have you bought it?" 
You could almost hear the steam melting out of his ears! 

Clearly the man was a surveyor - mini steps, damp meter, look about him being able to wrangle a bit of paperwork. 

Whoever has bought it they're spending £180k on a house that's broke the barrier for the street by thousands! 

I wonder what they'll think when they have moved in and in autumn a great big pile of steaming muck arrives on the allotment car park visible from their back windows! :)
I know it's not like chickens are noisy. They can be a bit cheery sometimes when they are telling you they've laid an egg, but normally mostly quiet.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, DurhamBorn said:

Could be a while for houses to really tank like you say as the CBs are fully engaged at the moment with unlimited liquidity pumping and pretty much monetizing £300 billion to £600 billion.The real fun for house prices will start once the economy stops collapsing and the CBs stop monetizing.Thats the point governments have to face real tax increase and real structural deficits.If i was selling an above average priced house id undercut others and get it done as quickly as i could.Every tailwind since 82 is turning into a headwind.HTB and BTL should be where the real pain is felt pretty quickly.I expect HTB new build estates inflation adjusted wont see the highs again in a couple of lifetimes if ever before they are demolished.Nominal maybe in around a decade as inflation roars,but even that is a real push.

DB, everyone's expecting a HPC sharpish, except the one person who's been waiting for it since 2008.  I'm with you, it's going to be at least 12 months+ before people realise it's a  goner.  The Land Reg wont be negative till nearer the end of the year I'd wager, few sales and only to those that think you can't lose on bwicks and mortar will keep the impression up that things aren't so bad.  Then there's the actions of the NW, for example, they will not willingly accept lower house prices. It could be 18 months till this is really playing out and by then I reckon they'll have been able to put a floor up the falls with hand outs and term funding backed crazy low rate mortgages. The real collapse can't come until the inflation forces up rates, then there's a lot of people looking at a lot of pain. This is like 2007 on acid right now.

 

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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Posted (edited)

Not related to a house sale but I had a mate at uni who used to sleep for 16+ hours straight. We'd sometimes go a day without seeing him. And you couldn't wake him, literally, you couldn't wake him. It was actually pretty hilarious.

We had a house viewing once for some students who were looking to rent it the following year. It was about 2-3pm if I recall correctly that they were due to come around. I remember showing them around, walking into his bedroom which was a tip and of course he was fast asleep, snoring (loudly). I was quite nonchalant about it (normal to us), the look of bewilderment as we were all taking in his room then leading them into the garden (which you could do through a set of double doors in his bedroom) and back through his room... Did not stir, pretty funny looking back as was about 5-6 of them.

We then went into the kitchen where he had threw up in the sink the prior night into all the dishes. We refused to clean it so was waiting for him to wake. I did apologise but they were naturally horrified. It was disgusting to be fair.

My other housemate was having a tommy tank in his box room so that room tour got cancelled.

They didn't take it up. Ah, those were the days.

Edited by SillyBilly

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7 hours ago, sarahbell said:


I know it's not like chickens are noisy. They can be a bit cheery sometimes when they are telling you they've laid an egg, but normally mostly quiet.

You are joking?

The ones next door at my last place were a sodding menace waking us at 6am every bloody day.

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23 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

I'm inclined to agree with this. Mrs S is more chilled than I am (I should listen more to her - she is wise) but I have a fear that we have a relatively short window of opportunity to get this house sold. It's expensive for this part of the world and way above the means of most. It does offer a lot though and is rare. This is our 6th owned house in 28 years (with a short rental back in the mid 90's). We have always sold easily and I think within 5% of asking price each time. This one is giving me the most concern. Without covid I'm convinced we would have sold by now and would be in rented. 

I don't think we'll drop the price yet. I'd rather give someone a healthy discount as this taps into basic human instinct of getting a bargain (even if it's a false bargain like most "sales")

Best of luck with your sale. Interested to hear you are getting out of London. We have heard anecdotally that this is seriously being considered by lots of people. It might help us as well as we are on a direct rail line to London.

Just put it on the same price as the one up on the street, which is probably smaller, higher priced and needs a refurb, i guarantee there will be one. It usually has tried two or three agents and the problem isnt the pwapatee, its the vendor. People dont like to bargain, neither do EAs. They want it sold at asking price (looks good on the books). They always price forced sales at market price for this reason as theres no arsey vendor to please. So if you need to drop it to the same price ans the overpriced shithole for 50k less, stick it on at 50k less. If theres a buyer there he or she will look at the place next door and think what a bargain yours is. Sold. And youve bagged the last sale before the plunge.

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