Did Thatcher 'screw up'?

[King Penda]

7 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

:-))))...if only you had read beyond the headlines of the 'evidence' you posted you would have seen this statement:

A 2007 study by demographers Charles Westhoff and Tomas Frejka identified the same trend among Muslim immigrant populations in most countries where data was available, including Austria, Slovenia, the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland and England and Wales.

The total fertility rate among Muslim women is almost always higher than that of the native population, but “with the passage of time Muslim fertility moves closer to the fertility of the majority of the population in the respective countries”.

 

and this one:

 

But it’s equally clear that the gap in fertility between Muslim and non-Muslim will continue to lessen over time, as it has in recent decades.

Mr Cooper suggests that there are “strong cultural reasons for higher Muslim birth rates”, but this ignores the fact that birth rates have fallen dramatically in many Muslim countries.

FactCheck wouldn’t bet on the British Muslim population ever topping 10 per cent, let alone 50 per cent.

 

...and the quote in your evidence is based on an average between 2005-2010...so not very current.

The passage of time is a bit vague is that 10/20 years or 50 lol.my case rests I brought proof which is what you asked for and moves closer to is another vague statement.like I said I rest my case ps I’ve never meantioned Muslims out numbering us..

[spunko]

The mistake Thatcher made was not realising that many Brits were unlike her, ie many are incredibly selfish and lazy.

 

 

[AWW]

3 hours ago, King Penda said:

it’s a fact that home owners have more pride (on avarage ) that renters on sink estates

Why would a renter spend money doing up a place as though they owned it? It's the landlords that lack pride.

[23rdian]

4 hours ago, King Penda said:

They died of old age or sold up and moved up the ladder it’s a fact that home owners have more pride (on avarage ) that renters on sink estates .I can walk around an x sink estate and tell you with a correct guess rate (very high) which ones are private owned .there is no second time around the imigrents and single mums get them.ps my road is full of terraces before you think I’m a snob I’m far from that a home owner wrongly or rightly will tend to think they have a better stake in/with society.ask anyone that’s just cleared there morgage if they feel any better about life once it’s 100% yours

Me too, it's easy to tell which is which.  I think a mix of social and OO works well. What doesn't work well is a glut of rented properties together (whether scummy BTL or social sink estate). 

[King Penda]

1 minute ago, AWW said:

Why would a renter spend money doing up a place as though they owned it? It's the landlords that lack pride.

Agreed that’s exactly why people buying them off the council raised standards

[King Penda]

Just now, 23rdian said:

Me too, it's easy to tell I think a mix of council and OO works well. What doesn't work well is a glut of rented together (whether scummy BTL or social sink estate). 

I could have a good stab who owns and who rents in my street and it’s all identical terraces .The odds are very high if they don’t have white doors and windows it’s an owner occupier when the pikeys moved along the street painting houses that was a blatant clue who definitely owned

[MrXxxx]

7 minutes ago, King Penda said:

The passage of time is a bit vague is that 10/20 years or 50 lol.my case rests I brought proof which is what you asked for and moves closer to is another vague statement.like I said I rest my case ps I’ve never meantioned Muslims out numbering us..

No you didn't, you provided some vague statement that was challenged by C4....this is what you should have provided:

1. Number of social houses in UK [as of 2022 = 4.4M]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/social-housing-sector-stock-and-rents-statistics-for-202122-show-small-net-increase-in-social-homes

2. Number of immigrants in UK [as of 2022 = 1.1M]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2022

3. Number of single/lone parents in UK [as of 2021 = 2.5M]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/families/bulletins/familiesandhouseholds/latest

4. Number of single/lone parent families in poverty in UK [as of 2022 = 800,000]

https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/uk-poverty-2022

 

So assuming there is no cross over between groups 2. and 4. i.e. lone parent in poverty AND immigrant, AND 4. is a good indicator of those living in social housing, then the total would be 1.9M [1.1M + 800,000]...1.9/4.4=43%, hardly a majority is it?...unless of course it's a Brexit result!

If you are going to make general statements at least be prepared to back them up with facts, and if once mad you don't have the facts at least be honest with yourself!

[King Penda]

10 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

No you didn't, you provided some vague statement that was challenged by C4....this is what you should have provided:

1. Number of social houses in UK [as of 2022 = 4.4M]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/social-housing-sector-stock-and-rents-statistics-for-202122-show-small-net-increase-in-social-homes

2. Number of immigrants in UK [as of 2022 = 1.1M]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2022

3. Number of single/lone parents in UK [as of 2021 = 2.5M]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/families/bulletins/familiesandhouseholds/latest

4. Number of single/lone parent families in poverty in UK [as of 2022 = 800,000]

https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/uk-poverty-2022

 

So assuming there is no cross over between groups 2. and 4. i.e. lone parent in poverty AND immigrant, AND 4. is a good indicator of those living in social housing, then the total would be 1.9M [1.1M + 800,000]...1.9/4.4=43%, hardly a majority is it?...unless of course it's a Brexit result!

If you are going to make general statements at least be prepared to back them up with facts, and if once mad you don't have the facts at least be honest with yourself!

Riddle me this who gets the 3 bed a 4 child family or someone with 2 kids .let’s assume the kids are opposite sex . We both know who gets it the larger family they have more points and are more overcrowded ps 1.1 million imigrents rotfl we had nealy 600k last year alone.

[sarahbell]

4 hours ago, MrXxxx said:

OK, so where did the people that make these sink estates sink estates go to?...my view is that social housing should be for those that genuinely need it, not for some long-term council tenant to buy it at a discount, sell it at a profit to a BTL [usually], 'spunk' it on holidays/cars, and when spent to then become a burden on the state once again. The issue second time around is that then then need to be put into the Private rental sector due to the lack of council housing.

 

The scum stayed. Those estates had been done up a few times with EU money.

Then Manchester demolished estates and priced people out. Where do the scum go?#

[King Penda]

8 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

 

The scum stayed. Those estates had been done up a few times with EU money.

Then Manchester demolished estates and priced people out. Where do the scum go?#

If evicted into private and they then drag terraced house streets down they gravitate towards cheap houses

[MrXxxx]

26 minutes ago, King Penda said:

Riddle me this who gets the 3 bed a 4 child family or someone with 2 kids .let’s assume the kids are opposite sex . We both know who gets it the larger family they have more points and are more overcrowded

irrelevant, just look at the evidence I provided rather than postulating another question as a diversion.

27 minutes ago, King Penda said:

ps 1.1 million imigrents rotfl we had nealy 600k last year alone.

...and?...OK, it may have been 600k last year; not checked this as I am assuming you have, but the total immigrants in the UK could still be 1.1M. As for it's accuracy who knows it's ONS data and being a pseudo-govt body they may have a bias, but it's the best that's available...unless of course you know a more reliable source?

[King Penda]

5 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

irrelevant, just look at the evidence I provided rather than postulating another question as a diversion.

...and?...OK, it may have been 600k last year; not checked this as I am assuming you have, but the total immigrants in the UK could still be 1.1M. As for it's accuracy who knows it's ONS data and being a pseudo-govt body they may have a bias, but it's the best that's available...unless of course you know a more reliable source?

So you realy think there are only 1.1 million imigrents in the uk ?  Legal imigration was just over 500,000 last year and 60,000 scum that floated in . That’s what they know off . This figure is probably bollarx has they hand out British passports has fast has they can print them 

[King Penda]

16 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

irrelevant, just look at the evidence I provided rather than postulating another question as a diversion.

...and?...OK, it may have been 600k last year; not checked this as I am assuming you have, but the total immigrants in the UK could still be 1.1M. As for it's accuracy who knows it's ONS data and being a pseudo-govt body they may have a bias, but it's the best that's available...unless of course you know a more reliable source?

It’s not irrelevant look at how many drs school teachers scientists and leaders of industry and other esteemed and allegadly intelligent people would answer this question.  Steven decides he is a woman he has a penis is Steven a woman yes or no. It’s a realy simple question but the state and many many intelligent people give the wrong answer.you’ve submitted little you don’t even have a clue 1.1 million and you beleive it rotfl.over 900,000 poles arrived 600k rumanians albania and Estonia are bleating about people leaving there country’s even Poland was asking its people to come home .yes some went home now we are are dumping ground for the dregs of the world ps I can’t prove that statement obviously 

[humdrum]

6 hours ago, King Penda said:

She made many x council sink estates nice places to live and people that bought them went to work 

True.

Many of my lefty friends have never forgiven her for that

[MrXxxx]

20 minutes ago, King Penda said:

So you realy think there are only 1.1 million imigrents in the uk ?  Legal imigration was just over 500,000 last year and 60,000 scum that floated in . That’s what they know off . This figure is probably bollarx has they hand out British passports has fast has they can print them 

Here we go again...

[King Penda]

4 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

Here we go again...

Bigger family’s are on the priority list imigrents have larger families and I include Pakistanis on this list has most spouses are imported .I’ve proved that they have larger families thus you don’t need to have swallowed a logic tablet to see my point. This is from shelter look overcrowded .fuck I’m arguing with a guy who actually thinks there are only 1.1 million imigrents in the uk but claims he read it .

[MrXxxx]

10 minutes ago, King Penda said:

fuck I’m arguing with a guy who actually thinks there are only 1.1 million imigrents in the uk but claims he read it .

Well you know what Mark Twain said:

"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you up with experience"

...hence why this will be my last post on this matter.

[King Penda]

9 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

Well you know what Mark Twain said:

"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you up with experience"

...hence why this will be my last post on this matter.

It was an argument I’d never lose I apologise for picking on a weaker opponent ..MEDIC

[humdrum]

2 hours ago, spunko said:

The mistake Thatcher made was not realising that many Brits were unlike her, ie many are incredibly selfish and lazy.

 

 

The mistake Thatcher made was that she did appreciate the rise of the East.

She realised that what the British wanted was lower taxes and more control over their own lives. What she did not realise was that there were tens of millions of hard grafting Chinese who were also ready to give capitalism a go. As a result she tried to make the UK a country fit for metal bashers. She failed, but it didn't matter because the service industries took up the slack and will do so for a while yet.

[King Penda]

7 minutes ago, humdrum said:

The mistake Thatcher made was that she did appreciate the rise of the East.

She realised that what the British wanted was lower taxes and more control over their own lives. What she did not realise was that teens of millions of hard grafting Chinese who were ready to give capitalism a go. As a result she tried to make the UK a country fit for metal bashers. She failed, but it didn't matter because the service industries took up the slack and will do so for a while yet.

Until they can’t .Europe will try a fuck London and we can’t survive on buying tat off each other for ever.the only card they have left is to increase consumption via imigration however everyone needs somewhere to live .they need to stop selling council houses off and remove people under occupying the snag is once that’s done they will punish owner occupied houses with 2 or more spare bedrooms 

[humdrum]

11 minutes ago, King Penda said:

Until they can’t .Europe will try a fuck London and we can’t survive on buying tat off each other for ever.the only card they have left is to increase consumption via imigration however everyone needs somewhere to live .they need to stop selling council houses off and remove people under occupying the snag is once that’s done they will punish owner occupied houses with 2 or more spare bedrooms 

I have nothing against immigrants. Most of the ones I know are pushy bastards who are ready to work hard so that they can move to the suburbs and vote Conservative, even if that does mean Keir Starmer.

And one of my happiest moments was when I bought my council flat and a lad came canvassing from the Labour party, whereupon I replied fuck off cunt, I am middle class now.

Half this board seems to have fantasies of living in rural villages with thatched cottages where they sup ale with their pigs and graze the children on the village green

[Phil]

11 minutes ago, humdrum said:

I have nothing against immigrants. Most of the ones I know are pushy bastards who are ready to work hard so that they can move to the suburbs and vote Conservative, even if that does mean Keir Starmer.

And one of my happiest moments was when I bought my council flat and a lad came canvassing from the Labour party, whereupon I replied fuck off cunt, I am middle class now.

Half this board seems to have fantasies of living in rural villages with thatched cottages where they sup ale with their pigs and graze the children on the village green

Why not. 

[King Penda]

14 minutes ago, humdrum said:

I have nothing against immigrants. Most of the ones I know are pushy bastards who are ready to work hard so that they can move to the suburbs and vote Conservative, even if that does mean Keir Starmer.

And one of my happiest moments was when I bought my council flat and a lad came canvassing from the Labour party, whereupon I replied fuck off cunt, I am middle class now.

Half this board seems to have fantasies of living in rural villages with thatched cottages where they sup ale with their pigs and graze the children on the village green

I do has a collective they alter my country to much I feel like a stranger in my own country at times

[Colliedog1]

Before Thatcher councils did sell council houses but not 4 bed ones. My parents wanted to buy before right to buy but the council wouldn't sell. My friends parents could buy their 3 bed. As soon as right to buy was introduced my parents bought. My parents never sold up and moved to a private estate like the majority did. A family member still lives in the house. My parents never voted Conservative so right to buy didn't buy their votes. 

The council have recently built some new council houses and these can be bought via right to buy.Crazy. Right to buy was a good idea but the discounts were too generous.

[humdrum]

52 minutes ago, King Penda said:

I do has a collective they alter my country to much I feel like a stranger in my own country at times

You are a stranger in your own country.

I am a stranger in my own country.

And unless we are living in Little Snoring where the vicar reads us snippets from the Daily Telegraph about our obligations to our betters after Evensong, then we are all strangers in our own country. And it is not caused by immigrants, but time.