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The Big Unfunded Public Sector pension thread


spygirl

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Went to reply to one of my earlier posts about Teacher Pension scheme.

Thread bumped.

So moving it to its own thread, as its probably got legs.

My post -

Yeah - 

 

I really need to work out the midlands - Just whiz by it, in a train or car, between North n South.

I dont feel comfartable til I see Sheffield ...

I thin kthe CovUni is just spunking it away.

There is a separate issue - Teacher pension scheme which the old Polyis are members are, as well as teachers.

The cost of Teacher pension is ~40% salary.

TPS funding has been 10% employee + 10-15% employer

Thats not enough for a fund that is full of white collar well rested wimmin. MOst will live to 90+ - 23y+

Up til ~1990ish most teachers returning were blokes.

Once again the fannyification of lots of public sector means a very hefty pension liability.

TS is goings nuts and trying to claw back contributions.

a Lot of schools are looking at rolls falling 50% - no more migrants on benefits - plus wage bill going up massively.

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Anyhow, as all public sector jobs fill up with wimmin, the pension liability is about 50%.

Gidiot reduced my turbo charge the long planned  sra equality - 60 - 65, then put another 2 years on it.

The effects of this change is limited, cos of working age bennues n dla crap. That needs sorting out.

Go back to the late 70s and even my primary was 30% blokes. Wierd blokes ill grant you...

Today you'll rarely see a bloke in a primary - or secondary.

Brown/Labour cranked up teacher pay  - a lot. A friend is on 40k for being a tpyear leader plus some admin n subject specialist, which is puss easy.

That's good- as long as she does not leave the school.

Once you go over 30k you are unemployable as no school wants you, preferring to employ NQTs in primary.

I.e. as a result of Labour's uber paying, you are probably in a post and school for life.

Of course most DO leave school to have kids. Then find out they are fucked, so end up in supply til an opening becomes available n the school is happy to employ you.

The TPS contributions are getting painful for schools.

There's massive turmoil in private schools as, insanely, teachers in private schools were allowed to join the TPS.

You might want to read that last sentence again, a few times.

Any how, today's story of woe -

Humiliating’ pension process upsets partners of retired UK teachers who have died

Annual letter from Teachers’ Pensions, which administers scheme for DfE, asks about new relationships

https://amp.theguardian.com/money/2024/feb/10/humiliating-pension-process-upsets-partners-of-retired-uk-teachers-who-have-died

After being complete inumerate fuckwits during 80s n 90s n letting teachers retire off in thier 30s n 40s on full pensions ... the TPS is in massive shit.

DoE is chasing every penny in TPS it can.

More so as school rolls fall off.

 

 

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And there's more ...

The teachers’ pension scheme bombshell

Alasdair Smith, former vice chancellor at the University of Sussex, explains the government decisions that have left parts of the sector facing a huge bill

at the University of Sussex, explains the government decisions that have leparts of the sector facing a hug

https://wonkhe.com/blogs/the-teachers-pension-scheme-bombshell/

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There's nothing new.

Private sector sussed out how expensive DB pensions were in mid 90s.

30y later the penny drops in public sector.

NHS n education are the big minster spenders.

What it feels like for universities

A typical large post-92 with annual income of around £350m and staff costs of £200m will already be paying around £15m annually into TPS. It now faces an increase of around £3m in its TPS contributions. In the UK as a whole, the increased bill for HEIs is around £100m from institutions, many of which are already struggling to balance their books.

The government departments whose budgets pay the pension cost of public sector employees can look at contribution changes with a degree of equanimity. Last week’s Autumn Statement confirmed that the government is:

committed to providing funding for the increased cost of employer contributions from April 2024 for centrally funded employers.

Departmental budgets will be adjusted by HMT, and the Department for Education will provide additional funding to cover the increase in schools, colleges and early years providers. In short, for public sector employers it’s a funny-money exercise in which book-keeping entries are shunted between HMT and spending departments.

But the post-92 universities (and independent schools) are “autonomous bodies” whom HMT will not compensate, and for them it is a real-money exercise and far from funny. The autonomy of the post-92s doesn’t stretch to having the freedom to quit TPS.

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On 10/02/2024 at 13:23, spygirl said:

There's nothing new.

Private sector sussed out how expensive DB pensions were in mid 90s.

30y later the penny drops in public sector.

NHS n education are the big minster spenders.

What it feels like for universities

A typical large post-92 with annual income of around £350m and staff costs of £200m will already be paying around £15m annually into TPS. It now faces an increase of around £3m in its TPS contributions. In the UK as a whole, the increased bill for HEIs is around £100m from institutions, many of which are already struggling to balance their books.

The government departments whose budgets pay the pension cost of public sector employees can look at contribution changes with a degree of equanimity. Last week’s Autumn Statement confirmed that the government is:

committed to providing funding for the increased cost of employer contributions from April 2024 for centrally funded employers.

Departmental budgets will be adjusted by HMT, and the Department for Education will provide additional funding to cover the increase in schools, colleges and early years providers. In short, for public sector employers it’s a funny-money exercise in which book-keeping entries are shunted between HMT and spending departments.

But the post-92 universities (and independent schools) are “autonomous bodies” whom HMT will not compensate, and for them it is a real-money exercise and far from funny. The autonomy of the post-92s doesn’t stretch to having the freedom to quit TPS.

Chances of reform though?

More likely it'll be 'fixed' through tax and inflation (to everyone else's great cost).

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22 minutes ago, marceau said:

Chances of reform though?

More likely it'll be 'fixed' through tax and inflation (to everyone else's great cost).

Tweaks most likely.

Gidots already fiddled with indexation and set retirement date to SRA - if you want to retire early then you nee to work have a DC pension - and put lots in it.

Mots likely will be removal or restriction of spouse pension.

Not a state pension but a good example of spouse pension fukcwttery -

Vicar, 81, who married Romanian toyboy, 27, dies alone in Bucharest hospital as his husband says he refuses to 'look sad' and wants to enjoy his £150k inheritance and £2,000-a-month British pension

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8389425/Vicar-81-married-Romanian-toyboy-27-dies-Bucharest-hospital.html

 

Examples of single people esp gay, marrying a friend so they can get the pension are common.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Castlevania said:

They need to be windfall taxed. Anything above £20k gets taxed at an additional 40% On top of your marginal rate. Job done.

Going to be hard getting that past the various VIs when inflation is running hot (as it will be for the foreseeable future imo).

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reformed nice guy
3 minutes ago, Castlevania said:

They need to be windfall taxed. Anything above £20k gets taxed at an additional 40% On top of your marginal rate. Job done.

We already have the precedent of ordinary income taxation.

Do a windfall tax on public sector using the current tax bands as markers. You don't lose anything up to 12.5k, you lose 20% of everything up to 50k, etc

Teacher on 40k pension goes down to 34.5k for example

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52 minutes ago, Castlevania said:

They need to be windfall taxed. Anything above £20k gets taxed at an additional 40% On top of your marginal rate. Job done.

Well,

Although shes now quiet, Rahy Reevy was on about dipping into whats left of private sector pension to 'incest in the public sector'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/13/rachel-reeves-plans-pensions-labour-growth-plan

Rachel Reeves is proposing to shake up Britain’s pension system as part of a three-pronged plan aimed at boosting the economy’s sluggish growth rate if Labour wins the next election.

The shadow chancellor wants more of the money saved for retirement schemes to find its way into support for expanding UK businesses, and says her reforms could increase the size of the average pension pot by up to £37,000.

What could go wrong?

I guess the daft bints not seen how puny private sector are now.

Im ntosure why she doesnt, say, take a nominal 50% of public sector pension. You can hypothecated the money.

Of source youll need to cut the proposed pension payout by 50%

But that cut will be more than made up by the returns generated by UKGOV

 

 

 

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Joncrete Cungle
7 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Well,

Although shes now quiet, Rahy Reevy was on about dipping into whats left of private sector pension to 'incest in the public sector'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/13/rachel-reeves-plans-pensions-labour-growth-plan

Rachel Reeves is proposing to shake up Britain’s pension system as part of a three-pronged plan aimed at boosting the economy’s sluggish growth rate if Labour wins the next election.

The shadow chancellor wants more of the money saved for retirement schemes to find its way into support for expanding UK businesses, and says her reforms could increase the size of the average pension pot by up to £37,000.

What could go wrong?

I guess the daft bints not seen how puny private sector are now.

Im ntosure why she doesnt, say, take a nominal 50% of public sector pension. You can hypothecated the money.

Of source youll need to cut the proposed pension payout by 50%

But that cut will be more than made up by the returns generated by UKGOV

 

 

 

The other 50% of public sector pension can be spunked by councils on buying commercial property and associated Public Sector idiocy.

 

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darkmarket
15 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Well,

Although shes now quiet, Rahy Reevy was on about dipping into whats left of private sector pension to 'incest in the public sector'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/13/rachel-reeves-plans-pensions-labour-growth-plan

Rachel Reeves is proposing to shake up Britain’s pension system as part of a three-pronged plan aimed at boosting the economy’s sluggish growth rate if Labour wins the next election.

The shadow chancellor wants more of the money saved for retirement schemes to find its way into support for expanding UK businesses, and says her reforms could increase the size of the average pension pot by up to £37,000.

What could go wrong?

I guess the daft bints not seen how puny private sector are now.

Im ntosure why she doesnt, say, take a nominal 50% of public sector pension. You can hypothecated the money.

Of source youll need to cut the proposed pension payout by 50%

But that cut will be more than made up by the returns generated by UKGOV

 

 

 

This is effectively a public sector version of what we discussed about the so-called 'Dutch mortgage' - the monetisation of pension assets/liabilities in order to prop up prices temporarily.

Two major warnings not to keep anything anywhere these thieves have access.

Edited by darkmarket
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2 hours ago, spygirl said:

Well,

Although shes now quiet, Rahy Reevy was on about dipping into whats left of private sector pension to 'incest in the public sector'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/13/rachel-reeves-plans-pensions-labour-growth-plan

Rachel Reeves is proposing to shake up Britain’s pension system as part of a three-pronged plan aimed at boosting the economy’s sluggish growth rate if Labour wins the next election.

The shadow chancellor wants more of the money saved for retirement schemes to find its way into support for expanding UK businesses, and says her reforms could increase the size of the average pension pot by up to £37,000.

What could go wrong?

I guess the daft bints not seen how puny private sector are now.

Im ntosure why she doesnt, say, take a nominal 50% of public sector pension. You can hypothecated the money.

Of source youll need to cut the proposed pension payout by 50%

But that cut will be more than made up by the returns generated by UKGOV

 

 

 

Hunt has already done/doing something similar, making "default" funds invest 5% in very risky venture capitalist long shots.

May as well just add a 5% annual tax on private pensions.

Edited by snaga
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On 11/02/2024 at 15:16, spygirl said:

Tweaks most likely.

Gidots already fiddled with indexation and set retirement date to SRA - if you want to retire early then you nee to work have a DC pension - and put lots in it.

Mots likely will be removal or restriction of spouse pension.

Not a state pension but a good example of spouse pension fukcwttery -

Vicar, 81, who married Romanian toyboy, 27, dies alone in Bucharest hospital as his husband says he refuses to 'look sad' and wants to enjoy his £150k inheritance and £2,000-a-month British pension

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8389425/Vicar-81-married-Romanian-toyboy-27-dies-Bucharest-hospital.html

 

Examples of single people esp gay, marrying a friend so they can get the pension are common.

 

 

 

Marrying Pensions (sic) and Rights to Pensions

In the USA the last person to receive an American Civil War pension died in 2020. Irene Triplett was 90 when she died and was still receiving the Civil War pension of $75 per month. Historians amongst you will recall the US Civil War was in the mid to late 1800s and yes due to the ‘rules’ Irene the veteran’s daughter, who was mentally impaired received the war pension her entire life. The pension was still being paid 150 years after the war ended and Irene started to receive the pension payments some 60 or so years after the war ended.

I suspect that pension rights being passed on to the new spouse will become a bigger issue in the future assuming that these rights continue. More people do not have a pension and a public sector pension enjoyed by many old boomers are worth millions.

Here is a real life case (from some years ago now). I knew the people involved so I know it is true. Man works in public sector with final salary scheme that reverts (I assume at some reduced percentage) to his wife on his death. Fair enough you say. His wife died before him and he then married his wife’s daughter, she was not his biological child, she was his de facto but not necessarily legal ‘step-daughter’. He died a couple of years later and new ‘step-daughter wife’ drew the public sector final salary pension for the next 60 plus years. All a bit sordid in an Anna-Nicole Smith way but 60 years of pension payment is not to be sniffed at. At least in the Middle Ages they ‘viewed’ the consummation of the King’s marriages to make sure it was a proper marriage. This practice may need to be re-introduced to stop young ladies just marrying the  boomer public sector pension and make sure they actually ‘marry’ the boomer and do the deed at least once to earn the valuable pension rights.

I wonder is there are any sections of society that  will see this as a way of generating a life-long income stream for young ladies and of course some young men. The people in the case I refer to above were of course white middle class British.

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