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Mirror Mirror

Negotiation

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Anyone have any thoughts on this negotiotion that Im doing?

Ive seen a house I like which is offered on Rightmove through an on line estate agent for £175000. Historical data shows it was sold as a new build for £200k in 2006 and it was advertised for sale about 10 weeks ago, initially for £190k then £175k

I offered £160k and the seller countered with £167500, ie meeting me halfway. On Wednesday I emailed the agent again and offered £165k, saying that it was high as I was going to go, but this was rejected and since then Ive heard nothing.

So we are £2500 apart. When I viewed the place the sellor siad she had had an offer of £175k from someone who had a property to sell, but in a subsequent email she mentioned that the offer has been £170k, leading me to believe that it doesnt really exist.

Im aware that it might not be the best time to buy property in the Uk, but like a lot here and ToS, Ive been waiting for a HPC for 15 years and Im not getting any younger. I dont think interest rates are going up much soon, despite what Carney said yesterday. I quite like the place and Id be happy to buy it now knowing that it has already reduced in price quite considerably. I thought that the seller might wait a day or so and then take my offer as the house is empty so is costing money every month, but so far Ive heard nothing.

Should I wait until Monday and then agree to pay the £167500, or be stubborn and hold out for the £165? Initially I told myself that I was in the driving seat and was prepared to walk away if I couldnt get the house for the price I want, but now Im not so sure.

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If the house is not in any way a compromise?

How does it compare to rest of the local market - obvious bargain price?

If no and yes then seller has dropped a fair way and seems cheap compared to 2006 price, it is a new build so presumably nothing likely to come up on surveys - could go back with a little higher offer and say that unless anything really unforseen gets pulled up in survey that is a firm offer with resources/financing sorted and smooth transaction - that is worth a lot to seller and could pull them down just a little, they may not get any more serious buyer interest to spring next year so they'll be factoring in that as well.

 

 

Edited by onlyme

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1 hour ago, Mirror Mirror said:

Anyone have any thoughts on this negotiotion that Im doing?

Ive seen a house I like which is offered on Rightmove through an on line estate agent for £175000. Historical data shows it was sold as a new build for £200k in 2006 and it was advertised for sale about 10 weeks ago, initially for £190k then £175k

I offered £160k and the seller countered with £167500, ie meeting me halfway. On Wednesday I emailed the agent again and offered £165k, saying that it was high as I was going to go, but this was rejected and since then Ive heard nothing.

So we are £2500 apart. When I viewed the place the sellor siad she had had an offer of £175k from someone who had a property to sell, but in a subsequent email she mentioned that the offer has been £170k, leading me to believe that it doesnt really exist.

Im aware that it might not be the best time to buy property in the Uk, but like a lot here and ToS, Ive been waiting for a HPC for 15 years and Im not getting any younger. I dont think interest rates are going up much soon, despite what Carney said yesterday. I quite like the place and Id be happy to buy it now knowing that it has already reduced in price quite considerably. I thought that the seller might wait a day or so and then take my offer as the house is empty so is costing money every month, but so far Ive heard nothing.

Should I wait until Monday and then agree to pay the £167500, or be stubborn and hold out for the £165? Initially I told myself that I was in the driving seat and was prepared to walk away if I couldnt get the house for the price I want, but now Im not so sure.

If you want it offer the 167500 if it goes off the market today ie no more ads or viewings .... you can pull out later if when you go to measure up you decide it is not for you ... 2500 is a couple of months rent and 1.5% which is noise in property pricing.

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Offer the 167500 to get it off market.

Then after you survey just before exchange offer 165,000.

Or if you feel lucky offer 160,000.

It might be worth to know if they own it outright, or if if they have a big mortgage.

If they have a range rover on the drive offer 155,000.

Job done.

Edited by Green Devil

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18 hours ago, satch said:

If you want it offer the 167500 if it goes off the market today ie no more ads or viewings .... you can pull out later if when you go to measure up you decide it is not for you ... 2500 is a couple of months rent and 1.5% which is noise in property pricing.

I'd do this; people are strange on houses and I found the most difficult bit for buying mine was haggling over £20 differences on a trailer and some other stuff.

Though as with all negotiations don't give something for nothing.  Say £167.5k but you want the curtains, carpets and bits of furniture for free (or whatever).

If you want the house then what is £2.5k really?

Personal anecdote: saw a couple of houses in the street I wanted to live in. One was pretty much what I wanted (great big integral garage and workshop :)) so I offered the full price, cash.

This was soon accepted and they turned down the other offeror who had knocked ?£5k, £10k off because property programmes lead you to believe that's what you do.

A friend overheard a couple down a local pub moaning about just such a scenario the next week and I suspect it was them.

The property was fairly priced in the first place as they wanted a quick sale as they had a retirement place to go to; if it's a fair price then just pay it.

 

I do think interest.rates will start going up ?Nov / ?Dec but it will be slow and it will be five years before there's a material impact and maybe up to ten until it bottoms.  That's a long time to wait if you can afford to buy now.

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Ta for all the replies, it is much appreciated to get some opinions from others with no skin in the game.

Maybe Im naive but although Ive tried to "strike a bargain like a fishwife" on this, I wouldnt feel comfortable with offering the 167.5, then 'gazundering' it down at the last minute. Maybe the practise is widespread but I would not think very highly of someone who did that to me and would very probably tell them to fuck off, on principle, regardless of what it would cost me.

Im a bit surprised that the agent hasn't intervened since we're only 2.5k apart but I think that the seller has probably dug in his heels and wont go any lower. They have had three days now to get back to me so Ill think about it for the rest of the weekend and then probably go for the 167.5 on Monday.

I Like Cake - I wondered about that, and although I have a mental picture of £1000 in cash firmly before me, I think its splitting hairs, and if I were to offer that, its making it clear to the seller that my final offer, was no such thing, as Sarah says.

For all I know though., the seller may now be thinking, 'strange that he hasn't got back to me to agree on the 167.5, but its now clear tnat he's not going to so Ill ring the agent on Monday and get them to acccept the 165 offer'

 

Edited by Mirror Mirror

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So what happened? 

I would have left the 167.5 offer until late Wednesday myself. It's hard though if you really like a place and are concerned it might go elsewhere.

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7 hours ago, BigV said:

So what happened? 

I would have left the 167.5 offer until late Wednesday myself. It's hard though if you really like a place and are concerned it might go elsewhere.

Well in the end I offered the £167.5k but was told that the sellor was now considering a higher offer, which is around her asking price, so Ive told them that the £167.5 is my best offer and thats that.

I have some doubt that the offer is genuine though. Having now raised my offer twice from 160 to 165 to 167.5, I can quite see that they might think I would be prepared to raise it again, but Im not going to. Although I did like the place Im happy to walk away now if needs be.

Interestingly when the seller offered it to me for 167.5 she said that if I accepted this, she would take it off the market the same day and have agent mark it  'sold SSC'. Nearly 1 week after the alleged offer near the asking price, its still shown as for sale on Rightmove, so why not the same treatmnt for the new bidder? Also, the agent has rung me twice over the last few days to confirm that 167.5 really is my best offer and claimed not to know about the higher offer, which apparantly has been made to the sellor without their knowledge (covering their backs?) This is what makes me suspect that the higher offer may not be all that it is suppoesed to be.

Its a bit annoying that I could seemingly have had the place for 167.5, but back then I was still thinking about it, and trying to get a bargain in a market which Im not yet up to speed with.

Edited by Mirror Mirror

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EAs are wankers aren't they? Sounds like they'll get back to you & accept the offer. I'd certainly put a time limit on it if they call again.

You obviously won't be able to trust either the seller or EA throughout the process if it goes ahead. 

 

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2 hours ago, Mirror Mirror said:

Well in the end I offered the £167.5k but was told that the sellor was now considering a higher offer, which is around her asking price, so Ive told them that the £167.5 is my best offer and thats that.

I have some doubt that the offer is genuine though. Having now raised my offer twice from 160 to 165 to 167.5, I can quite see that they might think I would be prepared to raise it again, but Im not going to. Although I did like the place Im happy to walk away now if needs be.

Interestingly when the seller offered it to me for 167.5 she said that if I accepted this, she would take it off the market the same day and have agent mark it  'sold SSC'. Nearly 1 week after the alleged offer near the asking price, its still shown as for sale on Rightmove, so why not the same treatmnt for the new bidder? Also, the agent has rung me twice over the last few days to confirm that 167.5 really is my best offer and claimed not to know about the higher offer, which apparantly has been made to the sellor without their knowledge (covering their backs?) This is what makes me suspect that the higher offer may not be all that it is suppoesed to be.

Its a bit annoying that I could seemingly have had the place for 167.5, but back then I was still thinking about it, and trying to get a bargain in a market which Im not yet up to speed with.

The EA and seller are IMHO both lying, there is no other offer, if there was the property would be sstc and the EA would not waste there time calling you about a sold property and the EA does not know about the higher offer .... yeah right. The problem is that you can't trust either the EA or the seller as they may on the day of exchange when you have spent thousands on fees and they have spent a couple of hundred they may decide they want the full asking price after all ...............

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On 9/22/2017 at 16:11, satch said:

The EA and seller are IMHO both lying, there is no other offer, if there was the property would be sstc and the EA would not waste there time calling you about a sold property and the EA does not know about the higher offer .... yeah right. The problem is that you can't trust either the EA or the seller as they may on the day of exchange when you have spent thousands on fees and they have spent a couple of hundred they may decide they want the full asking price after all ...............

This ^^^^^ it`s hard to keep up a lie at the best of times but two parties lying on que is almost impossible but two parties telling the truth will always correlate

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On 9/22/2017 at 13:54, Mirror Mirror said:

I have some doubt that the offer is genuine though. Having now raised my offer twice from 160 to 165 to 167.5, I can quite see that they might think I would be prepared to raise it again, but Im not going to. Although I did like the place Im happy to walk away now if needs be.

EAs and sellers will keep refusing lower offers until you give up and go away. Then they contact you at a later date to ask if you are still interested.

This is if there are no other bidders. If there are all bets are off and they will BS til the cows come home to get the price bid up further (we have another offer on the table so we are looking for asking - despite the other offer being 25k under the asking price...)

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Ah the phantom offer. You can either wait, or walk away. Or if you're feeling brave tell them that you think they're playing games and they have 3 days to accept etc. But that can easily backfire and makes you look a bit desperate. 

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On 9/22/2017 at 14:54, Mirror Mirror said:

 Also, the agent has rung me twice over the last few days to confirm that 167.5 really is my best offer and claimed not to know about the higher offer,

When the agent calls say you are currently viewing another property and will call them back. Then don't.

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Tbh I would expect the agent is prolly telling the truth. It is a buyers market now (may change though) and everyone is offering asking or close to with the the advent of free money from the boe.

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13 hours ago, Green Devil said:

Tbh I would expect the agent is prolly telling the truth. It is a buyers market now (may change though) and everyone is offering asking or close to with the the advent of free money from the boe.

Whereabouts are you? It really varies. London and the SE, in the middle and upper price brackets just aren't moving and haven't been for a year or more.

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I wouldn't be so certain... Even if it's genuine then it may fall through. An agent round here is known for going "under offer" with absolutely no substance behind it.

Either way you don't sound too upset so perhaps it's better to walk away anyway if you aren't 100% behind it. I know I "lost" several houses that I really wanted at the time but then once I wasn't able to buy them, I did feel a slight sense of relief because they were not in hindsight completely 'right'. There was only one house that I genuinely really wanted but missed out on, and it still hurts if I think about it, as my current house (as much as I like it) is slightly smaller and was £20k more.

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An agent round here is known for going "under offer" with absolutely no substance behind it

To what purpose though?

Im not upset by it, disappointed maybe. This has happened to me before though, and its always when you like the first place you look at in a market which you're not familiar with, so you dont yet have a feel for what something really is worth. The last house I bought was maybe the 25th or 30th place I looked at so by the time I saw it, I was pretty certain of what I wanted and that it was the right place for us, and that the price was about right.

Edited by Mirror Mirror

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17 hours ago, Mirror Mirror said:

To what purpose though?

To convince the sellers that she is earning her 2%. I've heard that the buyers aren't always completely made up, often they are looking at other homes and are not proceedable. She encourages you to make an offer even if you are only semi-serious.

But it's worth adding this is only one EA out of about 10 round here that I've had experience with.

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4 hours ago, spunko2010 said:

She encourages you to make an offer even if you are only semi-serious.

This is how it works. Once they have offers they use it to bid/bluff other parties.

Usually the agent has a BTLer in the wings, who is happy to wait , and pick up reductions, until the agent calls him with a new offer from a FTB at say 10k under. Then the BLTer knows the game is up and its as low as it will go. Then the agent calls you and says another offer from another party higher. What do you want to do? Then it goes to the BTLer. Agent happy, seller happy, BTLer steals another nice residential home at the bottom price. You at this time think the EA is BSing, which at this time isnt the case as its market is strong (there are both FTB and BTLer). (But not really any upsizers.). My take on how i see the process is going at the moment.

Since BTLer isnt interested in moving into it, time is on his side, unlike FTB whose wasting 1500pm on rent.

Edited by Green Devil

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