Dealing with the Polymetal delisting and moving holding to Kazakhstan

[Pip321]

On 22/07/2023 at 01:28, Foor said:

This means Polymetal shares will be delisted from the London Stock Exchange (LSE) 

HL cannot even get it right in their own updates.

How do they know they will delisted before the owners of the company, yes the shareholders of the company have given it the green light?

Its as if the brokers/platforms know the outcome and have more say so than the people who have the right to steer direction though having the balls to invest their hard earned cash and have yet voted.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven, and no I do not think the board have done a particularly great job as we are seventeen months into this disaster and re-dom/delist has still not happened.

HL really want you to sell your shares by the sound of their latest release. I am with AJ, small holding  by comparison; not had half as much correspondence as HL seem to be pushing out.

HL in desperation.

You can still sell your shares before 4.30pm on Tuesday 1 August 2023

You can sell your shares on the LSE before the delisting. You can do this online before 4:30pm on Tuesday 1 August 2023. 

I paid £3.60 a share and am still deciding if I shall bail last minute…..I am with AJ Bell. My £12k Poly investment is now worth about £6k but overall for the year (with other investments) I am up.

Tempted just to write the whole lot off…..leave it with AJ Bell and wait to see what happens over the next decade.

Fridays down then up share price highlighted to me how much this is being manipulated and encourages me to hold. 

[wherebee]

This is a great example of how the retail investor is screwed over by the 'regulated' industry, and would make a good article for any honest journalist.

We have a non-sanctioned, non-illegal company, which retail investors have bought stock in.  Several brokers have force liquidated stock, and at the same time large holders (Blackrock, etc) continue to hold.  Regulators seem asleep at the wheel.

This stock is about as baked in a performer as you can get, short of a war between Russia and the West (when all bets are off, of course).  And yet the retail investor is being given a shitty stick because... ?

[sancho panza]

particualrly @JimmyTheBruce @Majorpain

 

Had a chat with my mate in compliance.He understands it's not about the money ref Poly and has said I should escalate my complaint to the FInancial Ombudsman.

This will hopefully bring some 'sunlight' at a regulatory level.

Apparently he says it also costs the firm concerned £950 for the FO to assess teh case and reckons there's a chance they'll increase my compensation.

I'm still livid about the way they're trying to pretend my complaint is about them refusing a transfer when it's actually about the fact that they didn't let me know they'd cancelled it and were effectively putting me and otehr retial potentially,in a position where we missed the certification deadline.

 

[BWW]

3 hours ago, sancho panza said:

particualrly @JimmyTheBruce @Majorpain

 

Had a chat with my mate in compliance.He understands it's not about the money ref Poly and has said I should escalate my complaint to the FInancial Ombudsman.

This will hopefully bring some 'sunlight' at a regulatory level.

Apparently he says it also costs the firm concerned £950 for the FO to assess teh case and reckons there's a chance they'll increase my compensation.

I'm still livid about the way they're trying to pretend my complaint is about them refusing a transfer when it's actually about the fact that they didn't let me know they'd cancelled it and were effectively putting me and otehr retial potentially,in a position where we missed the certification deadline.

 

the problem is that you made the deadline for certs.

complaining about how others are treated is not part of what the complaint process offers.

i am in a similar position with ajb and spoke to transfers dept after they said nothing about not doing my transfer for 18 days. i repeatedly told them they are causing consequential damage because the certification which means transfer out of isa and extra tax in future would be my only option.

Roughly: if my 6k in isa goes back to pre war prices ==54k cg plus divs. tax 20% = 11k + to taxman they would have cost me because i now hold certs. but also 60k is now outside isa which could have been inside ... at 10% cg/div is 6k per yr income is 1.2k tax compounding over years. Cost to cover that amount with annuity = 30k. total damage 41k.

even half that assuming ru assets are dumped with little reward is 20k damage/ cost to me due to ajb cancelling my isa transfer.

the problem is whether ANY other broker would have allowed an isa transfer around 9 june. I'm not aware of one. If there was never any transfer possible ajb can argue their action has not caused a loss ie they have just caused me annoyance and time wasting. consequence i will avoid the ajb muppet co. but cba to go after 300 quid compo which will be their offer to avoid paying ombudsman 900.

i dont have a problem with my broker refusing to hold once delisted. they're not obliged to offer every global market. certification was efficient.

[sancho panza]

53 minutes ago, BWW said:

the problem is that you made the deadline for certs.

complaining about how others are treated is not part of what the complaint process offers.

i am in a similar position with ajb and spoke to transfers dept after they said nothing about not doing my transfer for 18 days. i repeatedly told them they are causing consequential damage because the certification which means transfer out of isa and extra tax in future would be my only option.

Roughly: if my 6k in isa goes back to pre war prices ==54k cg plus divs. tax 20% = 11k + to taxman they would have cost me because i now hold certs. but also 60k is now outside isa which could have been inside ... at 10% cg/div is 6k per yr income is 1.2k tax compounding over years. Cost to cover that amount with annuity = 30k. total damage 41k.

even half that assuming ru assets are dumped with little reward is 20k damage/ cost to me due to ajb cancelling my isa transfer.

the problem is whether ANY other broker would have allowed an isa transfer around 9 june. I'm not aware of one. If there was never any transfer possible ajb can argue their action has not caused a loss ie they have just caused me annoyance and time wasting. consequence i will avoid the ajb muppet co. but cba to go after 300 quid compo which will be their offer to avoid paying ombudsman 900.

i dont have a problem with my broker refusing to hold once delisted. they're not obliged to offer every global market. certification was efficient.

Firstly,I'm aware that I've no locus standi ref other retial punters.I never claimed I had.The point is that if enough of us complain,then there's a possiblity that the regulator may take a deeper look which might reveal what was or was not going on behind the scenes with the forced sales that did take place.

Secondly,I'm not sure certification takes it out of the ISA wrapper.Mrs P holds some with HL and as far as I can read,they haven't taken it out of the wrapper,they're jsut holding the certs and you can't sell them

Thirdly,if you read the thread more carefully you'll realsie that my complaint ref AJB was for stress/opportunity cost of being too late to get the shares in with Wood.com etc.You don't have to suffer a loss to get compensation from a legal standpoint.

Thus far,AJB have spent what looks like the best part of 4 horus +,going through phone calls and emails.They're now going to have to explain to the FO what they were doing and why.If that helps out some other retial punters,or collectively we cause enough of a stink to get the regulator to exclude collusion as a motive then all well and good.

It's not about the moeny as I said.If you do nothing now then you can't whine when they do it again imho.This is a clear warning shot across the bows of retail(jsut like the cognitive dissonance over farage's treatment by Antifa West),you want to ignore it,go ahead.

Edited July 25, 2023 by sancho panza

[BWW]

56 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

Firstly,I'm aware that I've no locus standi ref other retial punters.I never claimed I had.The point is that if enough of us complain,then there's a possiblity that the regulator may take a deeper look which might reveal what was or was not going on behind the scenes with the forced sales that did take place.

Secondly,I'm not sure certification takes it out of the ISA wrapper.Mrs P holds some with HL and as far as I can read,they haven't taken it out of the wrapper,they're jsut holding the certs and you can't sell them

Thirdly,if you read the thread more carefully you'll realsie that my complaint ref AJB was for stress/opportunity cost of being too late to get the shares in with Wood.com etc.You don't have to suffer a loss to get compensation from a legal standpoint.

Thus far,AJB have spent what looks like the best part of 4 horus +,going through phone calls and emails.They're now going to have to explain to the FO what they were doing and why.If that helps out some other retial punters,or collectively we cause enough of a stink to get the regulator to exclude collusion as a motive then all well and good.

It's not about the moeny as I said.If you do nothing now then you can't whine when they do it again imho.This is a clear warning shot across the bows of retail(jsut like the cognitive dissonance over farage's treatment by Antifa West),you want to ignore it,go ahead.

am not at all critical of you / your action.  but i don't think ajb care about anything other than their bottom line.

my 6k is removed from isa afaik because certs are  in my name, registered at compushare. i could of course choose to assume they are still in isa and not declare on sa but would probably be fined if audited by hmrc.  odds of yylnot getting caught make it a better punt than odds i'd get at bookies but still am unlikely to try it.

aiui wood do not offer isa. only hl and ajb hold certs as nominees and only for those who bought there or transferred long ago. so yes mrs p has situation as you describe but that was not available with all brokers.

someone please correct but i think no broker allowed isa to isa transfers in and would then hold for you in an isa.

not sure what part of not doing it again you want to stop.

i see 3 groups.

a. brokers force selling at short notice but allowing certs(?) or transfer - inconvenient ( barclays),

b. brokers requiring sell, transfer or certificate with clear communication and not changing dates and a months notice ( halifax, fidelity, iweb) - shame wont hold inside sipp/isa but i dont see a valid complaint. ditto hl who wont certificate but will allow hold

c. problem is ii who changed deadlines/options and ajb who offered transfers and then changed their mind without notifying customers. - shit untrustworthy service.

my conclusion is just remember these two are not to be trusted in future. helping others would be to describe what they did and let them choose a better broker too.

the decision to delist was polymetal's and just normal possible event if you hold any shares. also imo best plan given hand dealt.

[Red Debt Redemption]

Another message from HL saying you can sell before 1st August you can sell before 1st August you can sell before 1st August you can sellllllll.

That's good enough for me that I'm seeing it through until the end.

[Foor]

24 minutes ago, Red Debt Redemption said:

Another message from HL saying you can sell before 1st August you can sell before 1st August you can sell before 1st August you can sellllllll.

That's good enough for me that I'm seeing it through until the end.

HL want you out but won't offer certs, I repeat...

HL want you out but won't offer certs, I repeat...

HL want you out but won't offer certs, I repeat...

HL want you out but won't offer certs, I repeat...

HL want you out but won't offer certs, I repeat...

Fuck em, hold hold hold....

Fuck em, hold hold hold....

Fuck em, hold hold hold....

Fuck em, hold hold hold....

They shudda offered certs, I repeat...

They shudda offered certs, I repeat...

They shudda offered certs, I repeat...

They shudda offered certs, I repeat...

They shudda offered certs, I repeat...

Why do they want you out...

Why do they want you out...

Why do they want you out...

Why do they want you out...

Why do they want you out...

Catchy tune eh?

28.6% spread! MMs having their cake and eating it.

They're trying to pick shares up on the cheap from nervous holders, but still not let professional traders take advantage of a low price.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Foor

[Loki]

1 hour ago, Foor said:

HL want you out but won't offer certs, I repeat...

HL want you out but won't offer certs, I repeat...

HL want you out but won't offer certs, I repeat...

HL want you out but won't offer certs, I repeat...

HL want you out but won't offer certs, I repeat...

Fuck em, hold hold hold....

Fuck em, hold hold hold....

Fuck em, hold hold hold....

Fuck em, hold hold hold....

They shudda offered certs, I repeat...

They shudda offered certs, I repeat...

They shudda offered certs, I repeat...

They shudda offered certs, I repeat...

They shudda offered certs, I repeat...

Why do they want you out...

Why do they want you out...

Why do they want you out...

Why do they want you out...

Why do they want you out...

[Majorpain]

5 hours ago, BWW said:

am not at all critical of you / your action.  but i don't think ajb care about anything other than their bottom line.

not sure what part of not doing it again you want to stop.

i see 3 groups.

a. brokers force selling at short notice but allowing certs(?) or transfer - inconvenient ( barclays),

b. brokers requiring sell, transfer or certificate with clear communication and not changing dates and a months notice ( halifax, fidelity, iweb) - shame wont hold inside sipp/isa but i dont see a valid complaint. ditto hl who wont certificate but will allow hold

c. problem is ii who changed deadlines/options and ajb who offered transfers and then changed their mind without notifying customers. - shit untrustworthy service.

my conclusion is just remember these two are not to be trusted in future. helping others would be to describe what they did and let them choose a better broker too.

the decision to delist was polymetal's and just normal possible event if you hold any shares. also imo best plan given hand dealt.

Potentially, however as i have said many times the nominee brokers are in a bit of a grey zone in who legally owns the shares, so whilst they are probably within their legal right to sell them they also need to take into account they are not the actual beneficial owner of them either.  They cant play the execution only card when they are selling someone else's property, which they admit it is because they are giving the shareholders the money, and means you do have to take a bit of care in how you go about it because they are not being giving an instruction to transact.

I therefore think that they changed the rules of the game into something like a trust fund, the trustee has obligations to the beneficiaries if they are starting to take financial decisions with someone else's property.  The Brokers would much rather that this aspect was not, and to the best of my knowledge has not been, looked into any great detail as they potentially would not be able to act as they wanted, how they wanted and whenever they wanted with someone else's stuff!

Quote

The relationship between a trustee and a beneficiary is called a ‘fiduciary relationship’. As a result of this relationship, a trustee has the following four fiduciary duties:

• Not to put himself in a position where his own interests conflict, or there is a real possibility that they will conflict, with those of a beneficiary.
• Not to profit from his position as a trustee at the beneficiary’s expense.
• Undivided loyalty is owed to the beneficiary.
• Any information obtained in confidence from a beneficiary must only be used or disclosed for the benefit of the beneficiary.

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Majorpain

[Foor]

30 minutes ago, Majorpain said:

Potentially, however as i have said many times the nominee brokers are in a bit of a grey zone in who legally owns the shares, so whilst they are probably within their legal right to sell them they also need to take into account they are not the actual beneficial owner of them either.  They cant play the execution only card when they are selling someone else's property, which they admit it is because they are giving the shareholders the money, and means you do have to take a bit of care in how you go about it because they are not being giving an instruction to transact.

I therefore think that they changed the rules of the game into something like a trust fund, the trustee has obligations to the beneficiaries if they are starting to take financial decisions with someone else's property.  The Brokers would much rather that this aspect was not, and to the best of my knowledge has not been, looked into any great detail as they potentially would not be able to act as they wanted, how they wanted and whenever they wanted with someone else's stuff!

 

Neat post. The rules have changed.

You own nothing. Why bother trying.

[Majorpain]

9 hours ago, Foor said:

Neat post. The rules have changed.

You own nothing. Why bother trying.

But when they change the rules of the game the legal requirements change for them as well which is the key part, you only have to look at HL trying to persuade people to sell that there is something that worries them there, they really don't want to start making financial decisions for people.  Because if you do, and something goes wrong and/or you don't tick all the legal boxes, it becomes very costly for you.

[Foor]

29 minutes ago, Majorpain said:

 you only have to look at HL trying to persuade people to sell that there is something that worries them there, 

Not with HL so totally unbiased...
I’d disagree, HL is not worried, they are being leaned on by who????
If HL were worried they would have given the certification option first, ages ago; then the move to another platform option second, then the sell or we will sell option. Which they have not..........
Now we are what five trading days out from de-listing, and they are clearly trying to scare their customers into selling, when they have clearly stated that the option to hold in an account, ISA or SIPP is fine. So why try and scare people now when they should have told customers to sell when the price was 350p, in January.
No, they are not worried, my guess is they have a few big bag holders on board which could become a legal minefield should they had forced sold, why they did not offer a certificate is because they did not think anyone possibly would stay on board, hence go to another platform or sell.
Now they have a fair chunk in their nominee account, and you know what, due to the fact they never offered materialization which was a huge mistake, they are trying the sell, sell sell thingy at this late stage.
Which to honest is fucking awful tactics and I hope to god no one falls for their charade.
I still see legal challenges here...
 

[Majorpain]

6 minutes ago, Foor said:

Not with HL so totally unbiased...
I’d disagree, HL is not worried, they are being leaned on by who????
If HL were worried they would have given the certification option first, ages ago; then the move to another platform option second, then the sell or we will sell option. Which they have not..........
Now we are what five trading days out from de-listing, and they are clearly trying to scare their customers into selling, when they have clearly stated that the option to hold in an account, ISA or SIPP is fine. So why try and scare people now when they should have told customers to sell when the price was 350p, in January.
No, they are not worried, my guess is they have a few big bag holders on board which could become a legal minefield should they had forced sold, why they did not offer a certificate is because they did not think anyone possibly would stay on board, hence go to another platform or sell.
Now they have a fair chunk in their nominee account, and you know what, due to the fact they never offered materialization which was a huge mistake, they are trying the sell, sell sell thingy at this late stage.
Which to honest is fucking awful tactics and I hope to god no one falls for their charade.
I still see legal challenges here...
 

That's not what I mean, only in regards to them not wanting to take financial decisions for someone else and for the shareholder to give them an instruction to sell.  AFAIK HL has not changed their position at all on this.

[wherebee]

17 hours ago, BWW said:

i see 3 groups.

a. brokers force selling at short notice but allowing certs(?) or transfer - inconvenient ( barclays),

b. brokers requiring sell, transfer or certificate with clear communication and not changing dates and a months notice ( halifax, fidelity, iweb) - shame wont hold inside sipp/isa but i dont see a valid complaint. ditto hl who wont certificate but will allow hold

c. problem is ii who changed deadlines/options and ajb who offered transfers and then changed their mind without notifying customers. - shit untrustworthy service.

my conclusion is just remember these two are not to be trusted in future. helping others would be to describe what they did and let them choose a better broker too.

the decision to delist was polymetal's and just normal possible event if you hold any shares. also imo best plan given hand dealt.

4 groups.

Interactive Brokers is not supporting certification, insisting on the right to sell unless individuals transfer out.

[Castlevania]

18 hours ago, Red Debt Redemption said:

Another message from HL saying you can sell before 1st August you can sell before 1st August you can sell before 1st August you can sellllllll.

That's good enough for me that I'm seeing it through until the end.

They stated that the brokers they use have an earlier deadline and there’s a chance you won’t be able to sell even if you want to. 

Ties in with the low liquidity at present. 

[sancho panza]

I've had an email from Polymetal saying I need to reigster my details with the AIX .

If I'm registered with COmputershare do I still need to do this?

'

25 July 2023

Dear Shareholder,

COMMUNICATION FROM THE AIX REGISTRAR WITH REGARDS TO THE RE-DOMICILIATION OF POLYMETAL INTERNATIONAL PLC

The below information received from the AIX Registrar is shared with the shareholders of Polymetal International Plc ("we", "us" or the "Issuer"). This request is made by us and the AIX Registrar jointly in connection with the re-domiciliation of the Issuer from Jersey to the Astana International Financial Centre in Kazakhstan. For additional information regarding the re-domiciliation, please visit: https://www.polymetalinternational.com/en/re-domiciliation-agm/. This webpage is updated on a regular basis as new information becomes available.

"Shareholders of Polymetal International Plc, registered as shareholders of record on its register (maintained by Computershare) at the date of the re-domiciliation must provide the AIX Registrar with the information set out below. In the absence of this information, the AIX Registrar will be unable to open an account for the concerned individuals and corporate entities.

If an individual:

1.      First Name

2.      Last Name

3.      Date of Birth

4.      Nationality

5.      Individual Identification Number (if a citizen of the Republic of Kazakhstan) OR Passport Number (if otherwise)

6.      Email

7.      Mobile Number

8.      Residential address

If a corporate entity:

1.      Company name

2.      Date of incorporation

3.      Country of incorporation

4.      BIN/Company registration number

5.      Email

6.      Address

We recommend that all shareholders of record provide this information at the earliest to [email protected]".

Please note, if you have already opened an account via Tabys mobile application, you do not need to respond to this letter. 

A copy of the above letter is attached as a PDF file.

Kind regards,

Polymetal International plc'

[wherebee]

On 26/07/2023 at 19:00, wherebee said:

4 groups.

Interactive Brokers is not supporting certification, insisting on the right to sell unless individuals transfer out.

IB have sold the retail positions out today, including mine.  Have already lodged a formal complaint.

I have in writing they promised not to sell, plus me repeatedly telling them not to sell - and they sold.  Incredible.  Let's see how badly the game is fixed on the regulatory side.

[Funn3r]

On 25/07/2023 at 16:55, Red Debt Redemption said:

Another message from HL saying you can sell before 1st August you can sell before 1st August you can sell before 1st August you can sellllllll.

That's good enough for me that I'm seeing it through until the end.

Any chance you've heard last date for selling on HL?

[BWW]

2 hours ago, wherebee said:

IB have sold the retail positions out today, including mine.  Have already lodged a formal complaint.

I have in writing they promised not to sell, plus me repeatedly telling them not to sell - and they sold.  Incredible.  Let's see how badly the game is fixed on the regulatory side.

are they giving you the lse price 146 or yesterdays aix price 200+.

i  can guess the answer but highlights a side aspect of how iffy that is.

[wherebee]

8 minutes ago, BWW said:

are they giving you the lse price 146 or yesterdays aix price 200+.

i  can guess the answer but highlights a side aspect of how iffy that is.

150.

 

[Majorpain]

3 hours ago, wherebee said:

IB have sold the retail positions out today, including mine.  Have already lodged a formal complaint.

I have in writing they promised not to sell, plus me repeatedly telling them not to sell - and they sold.  Incredible.  Let's see how badly the game is fixed on the regulatory side.

After a message to you promising they wouldn't sell!  Be interesting to see how they try to weasel their way out of that one.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Majorpain

[Bear Hug]

1 hour ago, wherebee said:

150.

 

Trading 212 just emailed me they liquidated at 156

[sancho panza]

On 27/07/2023 at 09:20, sancho panza said:

I've had an email from Polymetal saying I need to reigster my details with the AIX .

If I'm registered with COmputershare do I still need to do this?

'

25 July 2023

Dear Shareholder,

COMMUNICATION FROM THE AIX REGISTRAR WITH REGARDS TO THE RE-DOMICILIATION OF POLYMETAL INTERNATIONAL PLC

The below information received from the AIX Registrar is shared with the shareholders of Polymetal International Plc ("we", "us" or the "Issuer"). This request is made by us and the AIX Registrar jointly in connection with the re-domiciliation of the Issuer from Jersey to the Astana International Financial Centre in Kazakhstan. For additional information regarding the re-domiciliation, please visit: https://www.polymetalinternational.com/en/re-domiciliation-agm/. This webpage is updated on a regular basis as new information becomes available.

"Shareholders of Polymetal International Plc, registered as shareholders of record on its register (maintained by Computershare) at the date of the re-domiciliation must provide the AIX Registrar with the information set out below. In the absence of this information, the AIX Registrar will be unable to open an account for the concerned individuals and corporate entities.

If an individual:

1.      First Name

2.      Last Name

3.      Date of Birth

4.      Nationality

5.      Individual Identification Number (if a citizen of the Republic of Kazakhstan) OR Passport Number (if otherwise)

6.      Email

7.      Mobile Number

8.      Residential address

If a corporate entity:

1.      Company name

2.      Date of incorporation

3.      Country of incorporation

4.      BIN/Company registration number

5.      Email

6.      Address

We recommend that all shareholders of record provide this information at the earliest to [email protected]".

Please note, if you have already opened an account via Tabys mobile application, you do not need to respond to this letter. 

A copy of the above letter is attached as a PDF file.

Kind regards,

Polymetal International plc'

Apologeis for replying to myself but jsut ref this query.I have jsut got off the phone with computershre the registrar and asked whether I need to register with teh exchange/complete tabys app to get my details onto the kazakh register. or whetehr being registered with computershre is sufficient.

I'm wary of sticking the above details on email and aslo would rather have Computershare manage my hodling rather than Tabys app,and I'm unsure if tabys app registration would pull my account from Computershare.

 

Must say the phone was answered within a minute or so and spoke to someone who was aware of changing info and went to supervisor for an overview..Bascailly,they said the newsflow was changing so they would investigate and get back to me.So I'll update as and when.

The professionalism of the Registrars brings back memories of the old days and foreign certs.Persoanlly I would presume registering with Computershare or with Tabys will be the two options

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by sancho panza

[sancho panza]

On 27/07/2023 at 13:00, wherebee said:

150.