Dealing with the Polymetal delisting and moving holding to Kazakhstan

[sancho panza]

hattip @Funn3r who suggested thread to help see us all through.

Going to start with @moneyscam psot and then the stuff I added.I've contacted Wood.com,but not heard back.We'll liekly be getting a certificate and getting Tabys app.

Prospect of a return to the old divi and a potential yield between 20% and 40% is jsut too much for a kanckered old gmabler like me to turn down.

[sancho panza]

Funny you shoudl psot on this MS.Jsut been reading the Poly guidance,pretty much confirming your nice summation above.,

I would assume in time that they'll get a secondary lsiting in a more accessible jusridcition either Hong Kong/Dubai.I contacted Interactive Brokers yesterday and it's no go with them,Saxo as well and then found the above link.

I've contacted Wood and will psot up when/if I hear back.

I'm off the exact same view as you that once freed from the curretn set up,the value will out and it will be incredible.I rolled some profits into this trade and if it comes off then it'll bring my retirement forward.

As you say,big insto moeny is picking up cheap shares.

Edit to add-It's the divis I'm after.This is a long term hold as EM/Goldie.Then at some point I presume they'll find a friendlier market lisitng I can transfer into

https://www.polymetalinternational.com/files/en/2023_05_10_Re-domiciliation_QAs_eng.pdf

 

 

 

 

Tabys user guide

https://www.polymetalinternational.com/files/en/Tabys_guide.pdf

edit to add from the PDF.I susopect in time we'll get an easier lsiting to trade but jsut been on the phone to the CEO and she's pointing out there's some real potential out there in Kaz.

Edited May 12, 2023 by sancho panza

[Pinkpanther]

13 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

hattip @Funn3r who suggested thread to help see us all through.

Going to start with @moneyscam psot and then the stuff I added.I've contacted Wood.com,but not heard back.We'll liekly be getting a certificate and getting Tabys app.

Prospect of a return to the old divi and a potential yield between 20% and 40% is jsut too much for a kanckered old gmabler like me to turn down.

Thanks for that - and I appreciate the thoughts and discussion on this.

I bought some last year and have held selling out as i felt i had not seen enough reward for the risk that had taken. (i was/am willing to lose my investment)  But now I think the ballache in realising the potential gain through the transfer is an avenue i dont have the time and expertise in doing.

I am currently sitting about even on Poly so I think I will just take the money and be done with it.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Pinkpanther
Edit - Ive just sold out.

[sancho panza]

20 minutes ago, Pinkpanther said:

Thanks for that - and I appreciate the thoughts and discussion on this.

I bought some last year and have held selling out as i felt i had not seen enough reward for the risk that had taken. (i was/am willing to lose my investment)  But now I think the ballache in realising the potential gain through the transfer is an avenue i dont have the time and expertise in doing.

I am currently sitting about even on Poly so I think I will just take the money and be done with it.

I tyhink thats a really valid take.For me,I jsut can't resist what looks like a good value bet.I think once they're happily ensconced over in Kaz,things will free uup some.Reality is that theyve consulted the big investors and they are happy with this.Some hoovered up some panic sellers at £1.25 two days back.

I think @moneyscam is on a solid line of thinking that's there a relativelyt easy arb totrade ehre if you're familiar with dealing with the Kaz exchange.

At the end of the day you can BAt's yielding 8.5% with the moeny.There are other options.

[Pinkpanther]

1 minute ago, sancho panza said:

I tyhink thats a really valid take.For me,I jsut can't resist what looks like a good value bet.I think once they're happily ensconced over in Kaz,things will free uup some.Reality is that theyve consulted the big investors and they are happy with this.Some hoovered up some panic sellers at £1.25 two days back.

I think @moneyscam is on a solid line of thinking that's there a relativelyt easy arb totrade ehre if you're familiar with dealing with the Kaz exchange.

At the end of the day you can BAt's yielding 8.5% with the moeny.There are other options.

In fact that is what i did - sold Poly and bought BAT. Cheers

[sancho panza]

Just looking at the msot user friendly Kaz broker

I've dropped them an email.

Tabys looks the best bet thus far.

https://ffin.kz/en/faq

FAQ

[Foor]

There is a really good Telegram group called "POLY London"...

https://telegram.org

Search"POLY London", excellent stuff.

HL have now blocked buying Poly. Can only sell the stuff.

They are also being a ball ache in releasing paper certs, which you need to input into the Taby's app.

I like risk me, I think there is a big upside in there, yesterday the bid kept rising yet there was sell sell sell, I think the MM's are filling orders for the big boys, while retail opt out due to risk and the pain in the ass of listing on the AIX.

I even think the company might just relist on the LSE, once the spilt is over and its a Kaz only company. For me to see it back on the LSE at £6 or more would be heart breaking after buying in around the 200's.

But we are all different.

Taby's app activation.

To get the code, please send the
following details to

[email protected]

 

with the subject “Tabys access code request”:

• First name
• Last name
• Date of birth
• Mobile number with a country code
• E-mail

Looks like from the 1st of June there will be no need to convert to paper certs as it will be all done in a digital manner from broker to Taby's app.

Only shareholders holding paper certificates will be able to transfer their holdings to the AIX CSD through Taby's app. Upon the transfer, cert's will be converted into paperless...

[Pip321]

Really basic question then. So what this means is if you hold these electronically in a SIPP it’s now not a question of if you sell it’s just a question of timing before delisting? 

Repurchasing methodology is a different question of course but just to clarify….if these are in my AJ Bell SIPP I imagine if I don’t sell them, they effectively will?

Edited May 13, 2023 by Pip321

[moneyscam]

11 minutes ago, Foor said:

 

Looks like from the 1st of June there will be no need to convert to paper certs as it will be all done in a digital manner from broker to Taby's app.

Only shareholders holding paper certificates will be able to transfer their holdings to the AIX CSD through Taby's app. Upon the transfer, cert's will be converted into paperless...

Thanks for posting the TG link. Can you elaborate on the above about your broker doing the transfer to Tabys? Haven't seen this option discussed before.

[moneyscam]

There may be another option with an EU broker called Freedom Finance who are deliberating whether to allow UK residents to open an account which would allow you to digitally transfer shares and trade as normal. Decision being made this coming Tuesday. This would be my preferred option if it becomes available.

Quote

chique

Posts: 3,862

Price: 250.00

No Opinion

RE: Trading Account - Freedom FinanceToday 05:12

If the management allow UK resident on 05/16/2023 then you should be able to have a live account in 15 minutes

You will need

Passport to take GOOD photo of when you get a link to app

Selfie

recent (within 6 months) utility bill / bank statement to prove address ( you take photo of this with the app)

It then reviews your pics and says ' you have been vefified '

FF EE said they can obtain POLY.L shares directly from Euroclear / CREST , I think it's Euroclear.

All looking good for UK residents with FF EU

chique

Posts: 3,862

Price: 250.00

No Opinion

RE: Trading Account - Freedom FinanceToday 05:07

Post from Anthony on POLY telegram about FF EU

Dear xxx,

At the current time, we are unable to open an account for UK tax residents. But we hope that the Freedom Finance Europe management will change this position on Tuesday 05/16/2023. We do not have fees for an inactive account.

Best regards,

Pavel Senchenko

Head of Sales of Institutional clients and Business development Department

 

[Foor]

34 minutes ago, moneyscam said:

Thanks for posting the TG link. Can you elaborate on the above about your broker doing the transfer to Tabys? Haven't seen this option discussed before.

Will know more post EGM at the moment just waiting for conformation.

[Majorpain]

1 hour ago, Pip321 said:

Really basic question then. So what this means is if you hold these electronically in a SIPP it’s now not a question of if you sell it’s just a question of timing before delisting? 

Repurchasing methodology is a different question of course but just to clarify….if these are in my AJ Bell SIPP I imagine if I don’t sell them, they effectively will?

Wait and see at the minute, UK brokers will have lots of shares in this and will be umming and arring about what to do.  They can do forced sells, but its not a good look if they sell for 100p to big institution on LSE who is laughing all the way to the bank when it relists at 600p+ on Astana.

[Foor]

18 minutes ago, Majorpain said:

They can do forced sells, but its not a good look if they sell for 100p

No they cannot.

No one can be forced to sell a stock in a suspended or delisted company.

The share will just sit there in your trading account with no value and you will not be able to trade it. But you will still own it just like paper certs.

Forced liquidation is not legal in the UK.

[Castlevania]

Does anyone know if HL allow you to remove shares from their share dealing account and receive certificates ? They seem happy to receive them, but I don’t see an option to remove them and receive them back.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Castlevania

[Foor]

5 minutes ago, Castlevania said:

Does anyone know if HL allow you to remove shares from their share dealing account and receive certificates ? They seem happy to receive them, but I don’t see an option to remove them and receive them back.

They are being a ball ache about it at the mo.

They did it for Evrez after a tussle I expect the same outcome once they stop spitting their dummy's out.

[Majorpain]

57 minutes ago, Foor said:

No they cannot.

No one can be forced to sell a stock in a suspended or delisted company.

The share will just sit there in your trading account with no value and you will not be able to trade it. But you will still own it just like paper certs.

Forced liquidation is not legal in the UK.

I'm not going to labour the point because its very unlikely to happen, but if you get margin called they most definitely can use forced liquidation to get you back in the black.  I have only seen it happen with small brokers when shares get moved abroad and they don't want the hassle of managing them, you get the option to move it out/certificates or they will sell them for you.

I'm waiting to see what II do anyway, they are owned by big footprint Abdn these days and have impressed me with how flexible/relaxed they were about Evraz effectively going off market, hopefully worst case scenario is they will just let the shares sit on Astana untradable for the minute.

[Castlevania]

8 minutes ago, Majorpain said:

I'm not going to labour the point because its very unlikely to happen, but if you get margin called they most definitely can use forced liquidation to get you back in the black.  I have only seen it happen with small brokers when shares get moved abroad and they don't want the hassle of managing them, you get the option to move it out/certificates or they will sell them for you.

I'm waiting to see what II do anyway, they are owned by big footprint Abdn these days and have impressed me with how flexible/relaxed they were about Evraz effectively going off market, hopefully worst case scenario is they will just let the shares sit on Astana untradable for the minute.

Same with regards to paying fees. They can sell any share to raise enough money to cover your debt.

[Pip321]

1 hour ago, Majorpain said:

Wait and see at the minute, UK brokers will have lots of shares in this and will be umming and arring about what to do.  They can do forced sells, but its not a good look if they sell for 100p to big institution on LSE who is laughing all the way to the bank when it relists at 600p+ on Astana.

Thanks.

I just thought the SIPP might be an issue ie holding shares listed on the AIX within a UK SIPP.

I will check directly with AJ Bell and do some googling re SIPP qualifying investments  

My Evraz are just sat there but that was a tiny amount bought at 58p as a bit of a flutter….so was never worried and happy to wait 10 years for them and even get nothing back. 

The Poly ones are a bit of a heavier investment and it’s worth saving the current residual value. 

Thx. 👍🏻

[Foor]

59 minutes ago, Majorpain said:

I'm not going to labour the point because its very unlikely to happen, but if you get margin called they most definitely can use forced liquidation to get you back in the black. 

You cannot buy Poly on margin, its why IB stopped buys ages ago as its the only the platform which allows margin.

HL and II do not and never have allowed margin.

 

[Foor]

52 minutes ago, Castlevania said:

Same with regards to paying fees. They can sell any share to raise enough money to cover your debt.

Why would you let your cash balance drop so to allow the platform to sell your shares. If that's was the case well you only have yourself to blame to be fair fella.

[Foor]

38 minutes ago, Pip321 said:

Thanks.

I just thought the SIPP might be an issue ie holding shares listed on the AIX within a UK SIPP.

I will check directly with AJ Bell and do some googling re SIPP qualifying investments  

My Evraz are just sat there but that was a tiny amount bought at 58p as a bit of a flutter….so was never worried and happy to wait 10 years for them and even get nothing back. 

The Poly ones are a bit of a heavier investment and it’s worth saving the current residual value. 

Thx. 👍🏻

If you hold Poly in a SIPP, you can either sell them asap, or leave them to fester. They will just sit there in your SIPP holding no value and you will not be able to trade them.

What the company should offer is a share buy back scheme for customers through no fault of their own not being able to receive paper certs for their stock due to inflexible tax wrappers like the SIPP when a voluntary de-listing takes place.

I have a feeling this might be the case post re-dom?

[Majorpain]

2 hours ago, Pip321 said:

Thanks.

I just thought the SIPP might be an issue ie holding shares listed on the AIX within a UK SIPP.

I will check directly with AJ Bell and do some googling re SIPP qualifying investments  

My Evraz are just sat there but that was a tiny amount bought at 58p as a bit of a flutter….so was never worried and happy to wait 10 years for them and even get nothing back. 

The Poly ones are a bit of a heavier investment and it’s worth saving the current residual value. 

Thx. 👍🏻

Mine are in ISA so similar boat, AIX is an HMRC recognised exchange although issue currently is no UK brokers are interested in providing share dealing services for it.  Its a lack of demand problem, not they cant do it if they wanted to IMO.

[Talking Monkey]

5 hours ago, Majorpain said:

Mine are in ISA so similar boat, AIX is an HMRC recognised exchange although issue currently is no UK brokers are interested in providing share dealing services for it.  Its a lack of demand problem, not they cant do it if they wanted to IMO.

From that i infer that HL could allow them to remain in ISA and SIPP if they got the backoffice stuff sorted. Have i got that correct MP. 

[Majorpain]

45 minutes ago, Talking Monkey said:

From that i infer that HL could allow them to remain in ISA and SIPP if they got the backoffice stuff sorted. Have i got that correct MP. 

AFAIK yes, there is no difference between Astana and Nasdaq/Kong Kong/Frankfurt.....

Its if they want the hassle of setting up custodians and dealers for it is the problem, and its wait and see what they tell you on that.

[Talking Monkey]

32 minutes ago, Majorpain said:

AFAIK yes, there is no difference between Astana and Nasdaq/Kong Kong/Frankfurt.....

Its if they want the hassle of setting up custodians and dealers for it is the problem, and its wait and see what they tell you on that.

I'll email em and have a go. Maybe if others reading the thread who have poly with HL do similar the demand may incentivise them to sort it.