Dealing with the Polymetal delisting and moving holding to Kazakhstan

[lid]

Doesn't look like you can keep the tax wrapper if using AJ Bell. 

Bastard, I was gonna dive back in as well

 

AJ Bell @jotomToday 10:55

I have just spoken to Dan at AJ Bell. Some important clarifications.

You can continue holding POLY in an ISA or SIPP, however once they delist they will hold in their nominee account in certificated form. This is crucial as this means you lose the tax wrapper for any dividends. Any dividends received will be by cheque directly to you and will be subject to tax.

He confirmed it is not possible for an ISA or SIPP to continue tax wrapper once delisted.

Pretty pointless to see it in your account under your ISA of no benefits.

I know many will disagree, I don’t have it writing as they said they can only provide this to customers who hold poly with them. I was only looking to transfer so do not have access to this.

[sancho panza]

It's game on.

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/polymetal-results-gm-123004872.html

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by sancho panza

[BurntBread]

On 26/05/2023 at 14:30, lid said:

Doesn't look like you can keep the tax wrapper if using AJ Bell. 

Bastard, I was gonna dive back in as well

 

AJ Bell @jotomToday 10:55

I have just spoken to Dan at AJ Bell. Some important clarifications.

You can continue holding POLY in an ISA or SIPP, however once they delist they will hold in their nominee account in certificated form. This is crucial as this means you lose the tax wrapper for any dividends. Any dividends received will be by cheque directly to you and will be subject to tax.

He confirmed it is not possible for an ISA or SIPP to continue tax wrapper once delisted.

Pretty pointless to see it in your account under your ISA of no benefits.

I know many will disagree, I don’t have it writing as they said they can only provide this to customers who hold poly with them. I was only looking to transfer so do not have access to this.

It sounds to me like the dividends issue will be independent of the broker. In that case, the only reason for keeping the shares within an ISA is if (at some point in the distant future) it becomes possible to sell them, when presumably the capital gains will be sheltered from tax. A long-term gamble, then.

[Castlevania]

2 hours ago, BurntBread said:

It sounds to me like the dividends issue will be independent of the broker. In that case, the only reason for keeping the shares within an ISA is if (at some point in the distant future) it becomes possible to sell them, when presumably the capital gains will be sheltered from tax. A long-term gamble, then.

Per HL any Poly shares in an ISA will receive any dividends.

[lid]

BUYSELLREPEAT

 

Posts: 837

 

Price: 197.50

 

No Opinion

 

HL Email after REDOM VOTEToday 15:48

Polymetal International plc - Delisting

 

Shareholders have approved the plans to relocate Polymetal International from Jersey to Kazakhstan. This is expected to complete on 17 July 2023.

 

This means Polymetal shares will be delisted from the London Stock Exchange (LSE) and its main listing changed to the Astana International Exchange (AIX) in Kazakhstan. We are unable to trade shares on the AIX so you won’t be able to sell shares via HL after this point.

 

You have 3 options to consider.

 

Option 1 – Sell your shares before 4.30pm on Wednesday 12 July

 

You can sell your shares on the LSE before the delisting. You can do this online or over the phone before 4:30pm on Wednesday 12 July 2023. The sale will be subject to our standard commission and we’ll only be able to complete a sale if a market for the shares still exists as per our Terms & Conditions.

 

Option 2 – Transfer to an alternative provider

 

You can transfer your shares to an alternative provider that is able to trade on the AIX.

 

Polymetal has given some guidance on this in their FAQ which is available here.

 

Should you wish to transfer to an alternative provider please follow the steps below:

 

Ensure you have an account open with a provider who is able to receive the shares

 

Contact the other provider, tell them you’d like to transfer the shares and complete any of their forms

 

The other provider will then contact us and do the rest

 

We’ll need the other provider to contact us to arrange the transfer before Wednesday 28 June 2023. If we receive an instruction after that point, it’s unlikely we’ll be able to complete the transfer before the delisting.

 

When opening an account with another provider please consider the following:

 

Any holding in a SIPP can only be transferred out into another SIPP account.

 

A holding in an ISA can be either transferred into another ISA account or to a non-ISA account. To transfer out to a non-ISA account you’ll have to agree to losing the ISA tax shelter on the shares.

 

Any holding in a joint account can only be transferred out into a joint account in the same names.

 

Option 3 – Take no action and retain the shares with HL

 

If you do nothing, you’ll continue to hold the shares in your HL portfolio after the LSE delisting. HL will hold the shares for you on the Kazakhstan Register. You’ll be unable to trade the shares unless the company relists on an exchange we can trade on. A future transfer to a broker that can trade on AIX may not be possible. You’ll continue to receive any dividends that are paid in the future and be able to vote on the shares.

 

Nothing here is a recommendation. We’ve included some frequently asked questions below. If you have any questions, please contact us so we can help.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Dave Ford

 

Corporate Actions

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So HL are saying you can keep them in a frozen SIPP and they'll collect dividends, no mention of losing tax wrapper. 

Confusing

Gonna message them and see if I could do II SIPP to HL SIPP transfer. I'd be happy to keep them for 10 years  collecting divis 

 

 

 

[sancho panza]

.jsut seen lid has psoted the HL email

Edited May 30, 2023 by sancho panza

[Talking Monkey]

1 hour ago, sancho panza said:

.jsut seen lid has psoted the HL email

Im thinking of leaving them in HL. Mine are in a SIPP. Eventually they should list on an exchange HL do. As long as dividends roll in should be ok i think.

[Don Coglione]

12 minutes ago, Talking Monkey said:

Im thinking of leaving them in HL. Mine are in a SIPP. Eventually they should list on an exchange HL do. As long as dividends roll in should be ok i think.

My tendency too is simply to let them roll with HL.

[Cold Cold Ground]

Will you be able to sell them if you keep them on HL. Reads like they are trapped as you can’t sell or transfer. Just gaining dividends.

[sancho panza]

2 hours ago, Cold Cold Ground said:

Will you be able to sell them if you keep them on HL. Reads like they are trapped as you can’t sell or transfer. Just gaining dividends.

That's how it reads to me.Although as @Talking Monkey says,eventually that should see a lsiting somewhere neutral and more accesible.

At  the moment,there are a few issues going around in my head if we opt to transfer to HL

1) they are categorically clear they cannot sell and possibly cannot even transfer them to a broker that can.If I snuff it and my Mrs is left dealing with it,what might happen?

2) HL would be the easy route,keep getting divs and no counerparty risk external to UK

At the moment,I have to say,it really looks like the big brokerages ahev endeavoured to give their clients optiosn(no doubt due to the widespread presence of Poly in retial portfolios).

Longer term it's hard not to see Poly getting secondary lsiting somewhere like HK/Dubai,which would be good for us retial as it would open them up to EM's where teh future is.

Having said that,part of me is itnered in exploring what Wood.com could do as I wouldn't mind investing more heavily in Kazakhstan given teh lunatics we have in charge of the asylum.

Decsion time in the next week as we need to let our UK phone broker know what we;re doing

Edited May 30, 2023 by sancho panza

[BurntBread]

Yes, having read their letter now, HL looks good for me (under the assumption the divis stay inside my ISA, which sounds plausible, but I haven't seen it explicitly stated and there seem to be a lot of devils looking for places to hide in the details at the moment).

I don't want to sell in the foreseeable future, but if that becomes possible at some point, then maybe I can liquidate them to pay for a nice holiday to make up for all the stress. I am imagining something like donkey-cart/paddle-steamer/donkey-cart to the edge of Europe, then a couple of weeks cruising in low earth orbit from the Astana space-port.

[JimmyTheBruce]

I'm still waiting for Interactive Investor to explain why they're not able to offer the same service as HL and AJ Bell.  I don't hold out much hope for a policy change.  In the meantime, I've started the process of getting HL accounts set up in order to transfer the holdings over from II.

It's more admin but, given that this situation is entirely the making of our idiot ruling class, I'll take the pain of that additional admin as opposed to doing what they want and selling the holdings. 

[wherebee]

On 26/05/2023 at 04:09, JimmyTheBruce said:

I wish.  I've informed II that both the others are allowing SIPP holders to just let them sit in the SIPP after delisting.  They're still insisting that they will liquidate the holdings.

I've suggested that they don't have the right to sell my holdings without my permission, particularly when the actions of other brokers demonstrate viable alternatives.  Awaiting a response.

if that is what they are telling you, that's a pretty piss poor indication of their risk controls and governance frameworks.

[desertorchid]

Is anyone tempted to buy more as they now know dividends will be collected? Surely the forward yield must be good at these prices

[Starsend]

I hold Polymetal in a SIPP with HL. No dividends since all the bollocks with Russia.

I've just rang HL to ask if I'll start receiving them again if I leave the shares with them. They basically said if the company starts paying them again - didn't really seem to know.

Reading the thread above, people seem to think that we'll start receiving them again, so how do we know this? Is it bacause of the relisting?

39 minutes ago, desertorchid said:

Is anyone tempted to buy more as they now know dividends will be collected? Surely the forward yield must be good at these prices

HL won't allow you to buy more.

[lid]

..and II will allow you to buy more but will force liquidate them in a few weeks

Go figure 

[sancho panza]

1 hour ago, Starsend said:

I hold Polymetal in a SIPP with HL. No dividends since all the bollocks with Russia.

I've just rang HL to ask if I'll start receiving them again if I leave the shares with them. They basically said if the company starts paying them again - didn't really seem to know.

Reading the thread above, people seem to think that we'll start receiving them again, so how do we know this? Is it bacause of the relisting?

HL won't allow you to buy more.

It's because the Russians and UK sanctioning each otehr meant the bankign systems couldn't connect revenues with the shareholder.Once in Kaz they will pay the divis from kaz

Petropavlosk went bust,not because it couldn't pay the laons but because it couldn't connect the companies moeny to the lending bank due to sanctyions.

If/when this is all over,I suspect £2 and £3 poly will look very cheap.

 

[AWW]

2 hours ago, desertorchid said:

Is anyone tempted to buy more as they now know dividends will be collected? Surely the forward yield must be good at these prices

Yes. I'm leaving mine in HL and collecting the divi. They were a long-term hold anyway. Unfortunately, I can't buy more through HL.

[ILikeCake]

I've got a very modest holding in my HL SIPP which I also think I'll just leave there.

Thank you to all for the info in the thread.

Edited May 31, 2023 by ILikeCake

[MockneyRebel]

Just to complicate/simplify things:

Quote

Polymetal expects LSE listing to return six months after re-registration

MOSCOW, June 1. /TASS/. Polymetal, the largest primary silver producer and the second largest gold producer in Russia, expects LSE to return six months after re-registration in Kazakhstan. This was announced in an interview with the Kazakh publication "Kursiv" by the CEO of the company Vitaly Nesis.

"When the redomycling is completed, to a full secondary listing in London, I think six months," he said.

https://fomag.ru/news-streem/polymetal-ozhidaet-vozvrashcheniya-listinga-na-lse-cherez-shest-mesyatsev-posle-pereregistratsii/

Current plan:

ii SIPP: Sell at some point before they do it for me

iWeb S&S ISA: Awaiting announcement of their plans tomorrow, ideal outcome would be to leave there until it all blows over (especially if LSE listing will be back soon)

AJBell LISA: Trickier (as someone mentioned 'confirmed it is not possible for an ISA or SIPP to continue tax wrapper once delisted') so I presumably be hit by 25% LISA withdrawal penalty charge on delisting. Going to sell at some point.

Also going to buy some via ii trading account and convert to paper certs (before June 30th) and register via Tabys app (for divis and any future stock splits). Not sure a UK broker will make it easy to access PolyR/any split Russian assets in future so hopefully covering as many bases as possible.

[lid]

II say the deadline for transfer out to another provider is 25th June

Anyone know if this means if the transfer needs to be done and dusted by then or just for it to be instigated by then?

Edited June 1, 2023 by lid
I've messaged II, suppose they should know

[sancho panza]

15 hours ago, lid said:

II say the deadline for transfer out to another provider is 25th June

Anyone know if this means if the transfer needs to be done and dusted by then or just for it to be instigated by then?

I would suspect(but can't confirm) that will be deadline for initating the trasnfer,my broker says it takes vbout ten days or so.Delisting is 17th July iirc so that would tie in.

 

[TNS]

iWeb: 

Due to the complexity of maintaining a holding on the AIX, we can no longer hold Polymetal shares. Polymetal shareholders should carefully consider their options. The circular is on the company website www.polymetalinternational.com. We strongly recommend you read the circular and FAQs in full.

SELL - If you wish to sell Polymetal shares you'll be able to do so through the normal channels until 4.30pm on Friday 30th June 2023 providing there is a market for them.

TRANSFER - You'll need to transfer to a broker who is willing to hold stock registered on the AIX. Please contact your other provider to transfer away from us. Please act now if you want to continue holding Polymetal as some brokers may have deadlines to accept transfers of Polymetal shares.

CERTIFICATE - If you want to receive a certificate, please contact our call centre and we can arrange for this free of charge. Please ask for your certificate withdrawal before Friday 30th June 2023. (SIPP holders can't withdraw certificates).

If you do not sell, transfer, or withdraw your holding from us by 4.30pm on Friday 30th June 2023, we will SELL all remaining Polymetal shares in our custody if there is a market for them. If for any reason, we can't sell your Polymetal shares we will communicate further.

[sleepwello'nights]

I have some Poly shares in an ISA held with Fineco Bank:

Quote

we inform you that the General Meeting of the company
Polymetal International plc, held on 30.05.2023, accepted
with favorable vote all the resolutions proposed by the
Directors reported in the Notice dated 10.05.2023.

On the basis of the timetable established by the General
Meeting, the process for the re-domiciliation of the company
from Jersey to Kazakhstan was activated by the issuer which
will lead to the suspension of trading the security
POLYMETAL INTERNATIONA PLC (POLY) ISIN JE00B6T5S470 from the
LSE market, presumably with effective date 17.07.23.

The security will then be tradable on the Kazakh market
which is not among those available for trading by Fineco
Bank S.p.A.

To date, it is not known how british custodian banks will be
able to deal with the shares, once the suspension of the
share from the LSE becomes effective.

We also inform you that as of today, the possibility of
sales orders on the shares you hold online has been
reactivated.
 

They'll kindly let me sell them! 

I've only a small holding so will retain them.

[TNS]

Cert requested, on the plus side it will reduce the visible -£ amount on my account