Dealing with the Polymetal delisting and moving holding to Kazakhstan

[sancho panza]

2 hours ago, JimmyTheBruce said:

The constant moving of the goalposts in this debacle is bizarre, and there's clearly collusion amongst organisations that are supposed to be competitors.  Given Polymetal's frequent appearance on "most traded" lists before this all started, the forced liquidation in the face of alternate options just smells off.

It is bizzarre,I'm part way through transfer toe AJB and I msut admit,if they'd pulled this stunt beforehand I'd have gone with wood.com/tabys certificated.

The double standaards for SIPP/isas/trading accoutns are strange.It's alsmot as if II have been bitching to the govt that AJB have been snuffling their customers due to II's being more loyal support for govt stance on Ukraine.

I suspect it's not so much AJB but rather II bitching.Deep down I suspect most them would rather we hadnyt gone down the sanctiosn road.It's been a disaster for them.Lot of goodwill has been burned

I'm going to ring them monday and find out the crack.

2 hours ago, BWW said:

Also no mail from Ajb here yet. Xfer in isa. Request acknowledged but not done yet.

Raises the question who is being allowed to pick up these 'forced' / coerced sales at low prices and how is the price 'set'?

Ajb need to come out and explain the problem of sipp transfers to a journo that asks. Otherwise they just look lousy even if looking lousy puts them in company of forced sales at short notice Barclays and change deadlines and change them back ii along with wrong info on phone hl.

This flaky mess is not expected from companies reliant on  trust, they are going to find that a problem and I hold shares in two of the brokers I just named. Hmmm.

Mess that stinks.

 

Thats a great question and we knwo that soemone is still buying and that a lot of retail are selling................suspect the instos are hoovering up cheap stock

[GTM]

7 hours ago, lid said:

Just had an email off AJ Bell, they've had to cancel transfer due to the upcoming delisting. 

What a bunch of knobs

I fucking hated AJ Bell when I was with them. Even in a SIPP everything was held in £. So constantly being nickled and dimed on foreign share divis. 

I moved to II. They have also been cunts over Polymetal, however at least I've gotten the shares from there certificated with no extra charges. Having the certificate will make a big difference I feel. 

[Foor]

I have always smelt something odd about the cliff fall to 95p, and then the no recovery based on Kaz assets alone.
I mean it’s been what 16 months now and this thing cannot break 400p? Kaz alone with its portion of debt must be worth that?
The company I feel have constrained share price growth, I cannot remember a bit of good news since when 2020? Nesis was moaning about cost inflation back in 2021 the August, since then the gradual slide.
Now we have this debacle, it does seem AJ and HL will be the last two men standing, I cannot see HL going back on their word and AJ.
Twice now they HL have stated there will no forced sells and they are happy to hold under nominee.
The cynic in me, I do not see a delisting, rather a re-domicile and secondary listing retained on the LSE, with the Russian assets hived off. This is why HL and AJ are not pushing customers to leave and are not in HL’s case offering a certificate, so hence offering short term cold storage.
If you have a SIPP or ISA or Trade Account with HL or AJ, for me you are not in a bad position going forward.
With AJ moving goalposts not accepting incoming positions is nothing like if they changed their minds and forced you to sell. If either HL or AJ told customers they had to sell, in HL’s case they would have to offer materialisation first with adequate time to receive the certificates. I just do not see that now so late in the day, could see  a class action, and possibly one or two court cases costing HL millions and adding to their already flaky reputation.
This Polymetal saga I feel has not been helped by the board and the brokers here in the UK.
If you feel hard done by, make complaints, and seek legal advice.
 

[Cosmic]

I've not had a notice from AJB that they are not transferring my Poly shares from II, it looks as though it is still in progress.

[JimmyTheBruce]

5 hours ago, Cosmic said:

I've not had a notice from AJB that they are not transferring my Poly shares from II, it looks as though it is still in progress.

ISA, SIPP, or Trading account?

[Foor]

HL Terms and conditions.

Make of it what you will, by not offering certificates and there is no sanction in place or law which states you cannot hold Polymetal stock. Hence the cold storage option?

You are responsible for ensuring you are, and continue to be, eligible to hold your chosen investments. You should make yourself aware of any restrictions on holding or trading your chosen investments, whether those restrictions are imposed by law, the issuer or provider of an investment, or otherwise. If you fail to dispose of investments you are not eligible to hold, or are otherwise required to sell within any applicable timescales, we reserve the right to dispose of any such investments from your Account without notice. You will be responsible for any costs and expenses associated with such a disposal and we will not be liable for any loss you suffer as a result.

So in there terms and conditions there is nothing which states that they will ever force sell or liquidate a position.

[Foor]

A25 – custody
Detailed records of all your investments and assets in your Account will be kept at all times. Investments you purchase or transfer into an Account will be held in the name or to the order of HL Nominees or any other nominee company in the Hargreaves Lansdown Group or by an approved third party custodian to our order. HL Nominees is a non-trading company set up to hold investments on behalf of our clients. HLAM is responsible and liable for HL Nominees to the same extent as for its own acts. Investments held on your behalf may be pooled with the investments of other clients, and as a result your holding may not be individually identifiable on the relevant company register. In the event of the failure or default by a third party, which results in the actual investments held (as identified on the relevant company register) being less than the amount intended to be held (as recorded on our systems) then as the investments are pooled, you may be required to share proportionally in any shortfall.
If we identify a discrepancy between our records and those of a third party which indicates a shortfall in your investments, and we are unable to rectify that discrepancy promptly, we will segregate an equivalent amount of our own money as client money in order to rectify the shortfall until the discrepancy is corrected. If HLAM was to fail, then you would be entitled to bring a claim for your proportionate share of any money which has been segregated and held as client money for the purpose of rectifying any shortfall in your investments.
Share certificates (where appropriate) will be held in HLAM’s safe. We may be required to give your details and details of your shareholding to Companies House, the relevant company’s registrars, or the company itself (or its authorised representative). Investments will not be lent to a third party and we will not borrow money against your investments.
We may use a third party custodian to hold certain overseas investments. The settlement, legal or regulatory requirements that apply to those investments may differ from those applicable in the UK. Your investments may not benefit from the same protections in the event of the insolvency of the third party that may apply under UK law. The third party may have a security interest, lien or right of set-off over your investments. This may be required by law in the jurisdiction in which your investments are located or may be imposed by the third party as security for the fees it charges for holding your investments. There is a risk that the third party may exercise its rights over your investments and reduce the amount of your investments even where you have not breached any of your obligations under these Terms. Your overseas investments which are held by a third party will also be pooled with those of other clients. This means investments will not necessarily be immediately identifiable by way of separate certificates. It may also not be possible under local laws for your assets to be separately identified from assets belonging to the third party custodian or other third parties. If HLAM or the third party were to become insolvent there may be delays in identifying individual assets, and possibly an increased risk of loss if there should be a shortfall because additional time will be needed to identify the assets held for specific clients. HLAM will be responsible for claiming and receiving dividends, interest and other income payments accruing to your investments held by the nominee.

[Foor]

may be pooled with the investments of other clients, and as a result your holding may not be individually identifiable on the relevant company register.

I bet HL have an upward of a 1% stake in Polymetal held in their nominee's account; hence their stance? NO certs but cold storage.

[Cosmic]

10 hours ago, JimmyTheBruce said:

ISA, SIPP, or Trading account?

ISA.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Cosmic
Existing hold is with AJ is SIPP, transferring ISA from II

[sancho panza]

On 17/06/2023 at 01:54, Foor said:

If you have a SIPP or ISA or Trade Account with HL or AJ, for me you are not in a bad position going forward.
With AJ moving goalposts not accepting incoming positions is nothing like if they changed their minds and forced you to sell. If either HL or AJ told customers they had to sell, in HL’s case they would have to offer materialisation first with adequate time to receive the certificates. I just do not see that now so late in the day, could see  a class action, and possibly one or two court cases costing HL millions and adding to their already flaky reputation.
This Polymetal saga I feel has not been helped by the board and the brokers here in the UK.
If you feel hard done by, make complaints, and seek legal advice.
 

Thats the key part to me,they have to offer materrilaisation or it's law suit time.AND this one could be costly if thsoe shares go back to a tenner

[Foor]

18 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

Thats the key part to me,they have to offer materrilaisation or it's law suit time.AND this one could be costly if thsoe shares go back to a tenner

To be fair whether they hold or I hold via certificate I could not care. I just want them in certified format.

As they don't offer this well any sniff of a forced sell. A very costly court case and not great for one's image eh.

[JimmyTheBruce]

Whilst  no doubt wasting my time, I'm still engaged in discussions with II and AJ Bell.

Can anyone who's requested an ISA transfer to AJ Bell confirm whether they've had it rejected yet?  Or has anyone actually been successful getting a transfer?

[sancho panza]

14 minutes ago, JimmyTheBruce said:

Whilst  no doubt wasting my time, I'm still engaged in discussions with II and AJ Bell.

Can anyone who's requested an ISA transfer to AJ Bell confirm whether they've had it rejected yet?  Or has anyone actually been successful getting a transfer?

I'll ring then Wed and see how my trading account transfer is going. Have you had an email saying they won't do it.?

 

I've heard nothing so presume it's gong through. 

Luckily the transfer is coming from my local phone broker where the service is very good(but priceyat times) soeven if rejected well certificate in time I think

[sancho panza]

@JimmyTheBruce @lid and anyone else. 

 

Bad news= just got off phone with ajbell and basically they told me they've cancelled any transfers not initiated after 12 June.mine was started 9 June but apparently the valuation wasn't received by 12 June or done other bullshit. 

 

I have initiated a formal complaint internally, and will be following up with FCA.if I hadn't ring they'd have run me into June 30th certification deadline and I'd be even more livid than I am.

 

Sounds like they're looking after pre existing owners.

 

I'll check wood.com tonight. Otherwise I'll certificate. Deadline for that is 30th June 

 

Good luck fellas. 

Mrs p treating me to a spa day today so I'll try and calm down

 

[The Bear of Doom]

My Poly shares have disappeared from my II account, so I assume that the certificates are on their way.

[23rdian]

2 hours ago, sancho panza said:

@JimmyTheBruce @lid and anyone else. 

 

Bad news= just got off phone with ajbell and basically they told me they've cancelled any transfers not initiated after 12 June.mine was started 9 June but apparently the valuation wasn't received by 12 June or done other bullshit. 

 

I have initiated a formal complaint internally, and will be following up with FCA.if I hadn't ring they'd have run me into June 30th certification deadline and I'd be even more livid than I am.

 

Sounds like they're looking after pre existing owners.

 

I'll check wood.com tonight. Otherwise I'll certificate. Deadline for that is 30th June 

 

Good luck fellas. 

Mrs p treating me to a spa day today so I'll try and calm down

 

I'm glad mine failed now. Empty promises from them it appears. I did have another email from them stating they were attempting transfers on a "best endeavours" basis though it's all a bit strange. 

Glad you can still certificate if you need. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by 23rdian

[JimmyTheBruce]

4 hours ago, sancho panza said:

@JimmyTheBruce @lid and anyone else. 

 

Bad news= just got off phone with ajbell and basically they told me they've cancelled any transfers not initiated after 12 June.mine was started 9 June but apparently the valuation wasn't received by 12 June or done other bullshit. 

 

I have initiated a formal complaint internally, and will be following up with FCA.if I hadn't ring they'd have run me into June 30th certification deadline and I'd be even more livid than I am.

 

Sounds like they're looking after pre existing owners.

 

I'll check wood.com tonight. Otherwise I'll certificate. Deadline for that is 30th June 

 

Good luck fellas. 

Mrs p treating me to a spa day today so I'll try and calm down

 

Cheers for the update SP.  I'll be doing the same.... at least as far as raising a complaint and calming down, I didn't get the spa invite 😉

[sancho panza]

From AJ Bell Transfers team yesterday while I was Spaaing.

Totally unacceptable.They told me they were taking transfers until 30th June.Even worse they now appear to be backtracking on existing holders as well and forced selling.

If they'd have told me on June 12th,I'd have probably gone with Wood.com.

Jsut going through the account set up with them and I msut say,they look very professional.My only worry is that thanks to the bumbling incompetence of AJ Bell et al,it looks like I may have missed the boat with Wood.com as they'll likely be swamped.

Call me cyncial,but someone here is cleaning up and it's not retail traders.

If I hadnt rung up on the back of @JimmyTheBruces heads up Tuesday,I'd have been none the wiser until the deadline for certification ie 30th June had expired.

I will be complaining formally to the FCA,all they had to do was email me on the 12th.............................instead it looks like they'd happily have run me into the certification deadline and wathced me offload to Blackrock at £1 a share.I can't but see it any other way.It was either utter incompetnece or they were possibly conniving with big insto's

 

'Good morning #######

 

I hope you are well.

 

Further to your correspondence with my colleague, ###### #####, please accept our apologies for any confusion in the matter relating to the transfer of your Polymetal International share to AJ Bell.

 

As I’m sure you are aware, Polymetal shares will soon be delisted from the London Stock Exchange. As a result, the primary listing of Polymetal International PLC will be transferred from the London Stock Exchange (LSE) to the Astana International Exchange (AIX) in Kazakhstan. Consequently, the company will no longer be listed or traded on the LSE.

 

Unfortunately in light of this, we will no longer be able to facilitate the transfer in of any Polymetal shares to the AJ Bell platform and subsequently, must cancel your transfer in to us. Please note this not a decision I have made or can influence, but is a business decision based on the changes to the listing.

 

Existing customers holding Polymetal shares within AJ Bell are being asked to sell these down and are no longer permitted to purchase additional shares in the company on the AJ Bell platform.

 

For information, it is expected that trading of Polymetal International shares on the LSE will be suspended on 17 July 2023. The anticipated last day of dealing is set to be 14 July 2023, subject to orderly market provisions, similar to other stocks.

 

The industry situation is that you are able to sell these shares with your current provider prior to the suspension of trading, to avoid being left with an untradable asset – or transfer to another broker which supports trading on the AIX. Please note that such transfer requests must be submitted by 30 June 2023.

 

It is worth noting that even if the shares were transferred to your AJ Bell account they would be held in a certificated form under our nominee name and would not be tradeable to sell or transfer.

 

If you have any other questions about the Polymetal situation you can contact our Dealing Services Team at [email protected] who will be able to handle your query. In regards to the Transfer to AJ Bell, unfortunately there is nothing I can do to progress your transfer.

 

As you expressed signs of dissatisfaction in your call with ###'###, this triggered our complaints procedure. Please can you confirm my explanation and help provided above, along with our apologies, resolves your concerns with AJ Bell.

 

Kind regards

##### #####

AJ Bell'

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by sancho panza

[Foor]

Existing customers holding Polymetal shares within AJ Bell are being asked to sell these down

that's bullshit. I hold with AJ have it in writing no forced sells. Sipp and trade.

I called them. Again my holdings are fine held in certificate under nomination.

 

[sancho panza]

1 hour ago, Foor said:

Existing customers holding Polymetal shares within AJ Bell are being asked to sell these down

that's bullshit. I hold with AJ have it in writing no forced sells. Sipp and trade.

I called them. Again my holdings are fine held in certificate under nomination.

 

Yeah I think he's done himself no favours with that reply.

On the one hand hes telling me AJ Bell are forcing sales

'Existing customers holding Polymetal shares within AJ Bell are being asked to sell these down and are no longer permitted to purchase additional shares in the company on the AJ Bell platform.'

 

and then a pargraph later

'It is worth noting that even if the shares were transferred to your AJ Bell account they would be held in a certificated form under our nominee name and would not be tradeable to sell or transfer.'

 

 

They've made statements to me that transfers were ok until 30th June.Then reneged on that promise(the rights and wrongs of that will be decided by a higher power than me) and then failed to notify me of their policy change psot June 12th.

AJ Bell have the right to change their policies.I accept that.What I don't accept is that they don't have fiducairy and legal obligation to inform me when thsoe policy changes could directly affect my finacial position.

If they'd have tyold me immediately,I'd have likely gone with Wood.com.It would be better tehy didn't make the promise in the first place

What's really worrying is that some poor unfortunates they don't inform may well miss the certification deadline.

As I've said,they're either in bed with big insto's creaming retail holders or they're incompetent.Likely it's the latter but it's not on and I will be complaining

Spoke to my phone borker-whopve been superb and they're certificating.

[Foor]

11 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

Yeah I think he's done himself no favours with that reply.

On the one hand hes telling me AJ Bell are forcing sales

'Existing customers holding Polymetal shares within AJ Bell are being asked to sell these down and are no longer permitted to purchase additional shares in the company on the AJ Bell platform.'

 

and then a pargraph later

'It is worth noting that even if the shares were transferred to your AJ Bell account they would be held in a certificated form under our nominee name and would not be tradeable to sell or transfer.'

 

 

They've made statements to me that transfers were ok until 30th June.Then reneged on that promise(the rights and wrongs of that will be decided by a higher power than me) and then failed to notify me of their policy change psot June 12th.

AJ Bell have the right to change their policies.I accept that.What I don't accept is that they don't have fiducairy and legal obligation to inform me when thsoe policy changes could directly affect my finacial position.

If they'd have tyold me immediately,I'd have likely gone with Wood.com.It would be better tehy didn't make the promise in the first place

What's really worrying is that some poor unfortunates they don't inform may well miss the certification deadline.

As I've said,they're either in bed with big insto's creaming retail holders or they're incompetent.Likely it's the latter but it's not on and I will be complaining

Spoke to my phone borker-whopve been superb and they're certificating.

Bud.

I've L2. Looking at the buy sell data. My guess is Institutions and the company are let's say scaring the little fellas into submission.

You'll awake one day and it will be a vertical line from 180 to 1180 and we'll all say what's app....

[JimmyTheBruce]

1 hour ago, sancho panza said:

On the one hand hes telling me AJ Bell are forcing sales

'Existing customers holding Polymetal shares within AJ Bell are being asked to sell these down and are no longer permitted to purchase additional shares in the company on the AJ Bell platform.'

 

and then a pargraph later

'It is worth noting that even if the shares were transferred to your AJ Bell account they would be held in a certificated form under our nominee name and would not be tradeable to sell or transfer.'

I made this point to them.  They can't explain why transfers are being blocked due to circumstances that already exist for current account holders.

Clowns.

[TNS]

On another note, anyone had a Poly Tabby's code yet for paper cert shares ? emailed them a week ago and still nought.

[sancho panza]

2 hours ago, TNS said:

On another note, anyone had a Poly Tabby's code yet for paper cert shares ? emailed them a week ago and still nought.

I'll be finding this out in due course.Once I've got the certs,I'll be waiting it out.Have you contacted investor relations for an update?

who did you contact for the code anyway?

Edited June 22, 2023 by sancho panza

[The Bear of Doom]

I received an interesting letter today. It was from Poly / Computershare, welcoming me as a shareholder (complete with a shareholder ID number), and asking me how I would like to receive communications and whether I want Dividends paid into my bank account!

I've not received any paper certificates yet (presumably they are coming from II).