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The end of the gig economy?


Game_of_Homes

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One percent

Good.  Maybe TPTB have realised that it isn't a good idea for tax payers to subsidise these large employers

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There are actually many folk who quite like the gig economy. If it's a choice and not forced upon them of course. 

Look at students cycling about delivering food. Work when they want - no hassles - pick and choose - cash tips too. 

Pretty good for a student imo. :Old:

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No Duff (troll)

TBH any half decent company with a HR dept should have known about the underlying legal changes.  Ok, fair enough to test it in court just in case but hardly a surprising result.  Sometimes the EU does good.  Shame our polos could not have fixed our benefits system so we could stay in. 

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Game_of_Homes
Just now, ccc said:

There are actually many folk who quite like the gig economy. If it's a choice and not forced upon them of course. 

Look at students cycling about delivering food. Work when they want - no hassles - pick and choose - cash tips too. 

Pretty good for a student imo. :Old:

The problem with the gig economy is that it only works because big companies know their employees self employed workers will get taxpayer funded benefits to subsidise their poverty pay. It's socialism for the rich, they get to capitalise the profits and subsidise the losses.

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3 minutes ago, Game_of_Homes said:

The problem with the gig economy is that it only works because big companies know their employees self employed workers will get taxpayer funded benefits to subsidise their poverty pay. It's socialism for the rich, they get to capitalise the profits and subsidise the losses.

It depends. When it comes to student types I don't see the issue. 

Nail bar 16 hours made up a week is a whole different pile of nonsense. 

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44 minutes ago, ccc said:

There are actually many folk who quite like the gig economy. If it's a choice and not forced upon them of course. 

Look at students cycling about delivering food. Work when they want - no hassles - pick and choose - cash tips too. 

Pretty good for a student imo. :Old:

The State doesn't like it quite so much.

All those self-employed people outside the PAYE system.

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Chewing Grass
5 minutes ago, DTMark said:

The State doesn't like it quite so much.

All those self-employed people outside the PAYE system.

PAYE system is like communism, the government takes what it wants when it wants and is forever tempted to up its take, the rest of the economy has what is left over.

Most people have little left over as it is, GDP per Capita is stagnant or falling in most of the West while tax takes are rising, jobs as a result are outsourced to the far east to keep prices down and profits up for the boys.

Forget manufacturing, most people will be driving chinese made cars in 10 years whether they like it or not.

 

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1 hour ago, Game_of_Homes said:

The problem with the gig economy is that it only works because big companies know their employees self employed workers will get taxpayer funded benefits to subsidise their poverty pay. It's socialism for the rich, they get to capitalise the profits and subsidise the losses.

Let's not just blame the big companies, it's smaller companies doing it too. But utlimately it's the employee rather than the employer who sees the opportunity to bleed other taxpayers and takes it. Who is to blame exactly? Probably all of them.

We can't blame Johnny Foreigner for coming over here and maxing out the bennies, fine, so  then by the same token we can't blame Hermes management for lowering their costs.

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Wight Flight
1 hour ago, ccc said:

There are actually many folk who quite like the gig economy. If it's a choice and not forced upon them of course. 

Look at students cycling about delivering food. Work when they want - no hassles - pick and choose - cash tips too. 

Pretty good for a student imo. :Old:

What student jobs?

Most of them are filled with 16 hour benefit bunnies, and if they aren't, the company will abuse the student by paying the ludicrous age based minimum slave wage.

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3 hours ago, ccc said:

There are actually many folk who quite like the gig economy. 

That's like when landlords say not everyone wants to buy and they are providing a service. 

It's not exactly untrue because someone somewhere probably does prefer renting*. In general though... 

 

*Amazingly I do right at this point in time whilst waiting for the crash 

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PatronizingGit

Havent the tories been trying to make it more difficult to claim working tax credits while self employed?

 

I think they *do* want to improve the labour market and make sure more jobs are actually real jobs, but doing so would reveal their 'lowest unemployment since 1975 or whenever to be largely a fraud.

 

I dislike Sadiq Khan a lot, but in standing up to Uber, he seems to have done something no senior UK politician seems to have done since about 1979. And of course, they whined for a day or two, said thousands of jobs would be lost, millions of pounds gone, and then came back and said OK. 

Same would happen with immigration if our politicians actually had balls. They'd whine about not getting cheap labour, but threaten them with no access to our market and they'd fill those roles with UK labour soon enough.

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1 hour ago, Cunning Plan said:

What student jobs?

Most of them are filled with 16 hour benefit bunnies, and if they aren't, the company will abuse the student by paying the ludicrous age based minimum slave wage.

Well when I was at uni I worked in various shops on set shifts. If I had the option of biking about when and where I fancied including tips I probably would have chosen it. 

Some people like the flexibility. 

25 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

That's like when landlords say not everyone wants to buy and they are providing a service. 

It's not exactly untrue because someone somewhere probably does prefer renting*. In general though... 

 

*Amazingly I do right at this point in time whilst waiting for the crash 

Well you are sort of proving my point aren't you...:D:Old:

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One percent
14 minutes ago, PatronizingGit said:

Havent the tories been trying to make it more difficult to claim working tax credits while self employed?

 

I think they *do* want to improve the labour market and make sure more jobs are actually real jobs, but doing so would reveal their 'lowest unemployment since 1975 or whenever to be largely a fraud.

 

I dislike Sadiq Khan a lot, but in standing up to Uber, he seems to have done something no senior UK politician seems to have done since about 1979. And of course, they whined for a day or two, said thousands of jobs would be lost, millions of pounds gone, and then came back and said OK. 

Same would happen with immigration if our politicians actually had balls. They'd whine about not getting cheap labour, but threaten them with no access to our market and they'd fill those roles with UK labour soon enough.

I’m wondering whether the issue with Uber was that they hadn’t stuffed the brown envelopes sufficiently.  

Not that I’m cynical. 

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Inoperational Bumblebee
2 hours ago, spunko2010 said:

Let's not just blame the big companies, it's smaller companies doing it too. But utlimately it's the employee rather than the employer who sees the opportunity to bleed other taxpayers and takes it. Who is to blame exactly? Probably all of them.

We can't blame Johnny Foreigner for coming over here and maxing out the bennies, fine, so  then by the same token we can't blame Hermes management for lowering their costs.

Too true - UK citizens or otherwise are just making the most of the system that's in place. It's successive British governments who've created and then not rectified this situation!

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5 hours ago, ccc said:

It depends. When it comes to student types I don't see the issue. 

Nail bar 16 hours made up a week is a whole different pile of nonsense. 

if you work 16 hours a week can you claim housing benefit and working tax credits?

Housing benefit is £27 billion.. This will go up as generation rent retire!

Working tax credits £30 billion

 

Police budget £12 billion.. We cant afford police because of this nonsense

 

 

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One percent
3 minutes ago, macca said:

if you work 16 hours a week can you claim housing benefit and working tax credits?

Housing benefit is £27 billion.. This will go up as generation rent retire!

Working tax credits £30 billion

 

Police budget £12 billion.. We cant afford police because of this nonsense

 

 

Good post. Contrasted against the police budget shows how bonkers it all is. 

I guess they can’t really withdraw it as sucking that much out of the economy will cause it to crash and burn 

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No Duff (troll)
24 minutes ago, macca said:

if you work 16 hours a week can you claim housing benefit and working tax credits?

Housing benefit is £27 billion.. This will go up as generation rent retire!

Working tax credits £30 billion

 

Police budget £12 billion.. We cant afford police because of this nonsense

 

 

£27bn plus £30bn is pretty much the Uk annual national debt.  We are borrowing to pay for all this expenditure.

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My son had a student job on zero hours at a supermarket. They didn't contact him with any work for a bit and he forgot about them. Two years later he phoned HMRC about something and they told him he was still a full time employee. That's how the jobs numbers are made to look good. 

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3 hours ago, Funn3r said:

My son had a student job on zero hours at a supermarket. They didn't contact him with any work for a bit and he forgot about them. Two years later he phoned HMRC about something and they told him he was still a full time employee. That's how the jobs numbers are made to look good. 

O.o

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On 26/06/2018 at 10:06, Funn3r said:

My son had a student job on zero hours at a supermarket. They didn't contact him with any work for a bit and he forgot about them. Two years later he phoned HMRC about something and they told him he was still a full time employee. That's how the jobs numbers are made to look good. 

That's fantastic ... so they paid his NI and pension contributions for two years, see employers in the UK do care about their employees and of course the two years will look good on his CV. Win Win WIn.

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22 minutes ago, satch said:

That's fantastic ... so they paid his NI and pension contributions for two years, see employers in the UK do care about their employees and of course the two years will look good on his CV. Win Win WIn.

Hadn't thought of that. Are you sure though? It was before compulsory workplace pensions also he was under 22 anyway. So doubt the pensions bit. 

How does NI work? I thought it was a fraction of salary, which in my son's case was zero. They may have paid something though good point I will tell him to look up his state pension history. 

My point is even though he was "employed" for two years he wasn't really. It was quite farcical he had to contact them and "resign" and they sent him a P45 I think. Makes nonsense of "jobless figures". 

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1 minute ago, Funn3r said:

Hadn't thought of that. Are you sure though? It was before compulsory workplace pensions also he was under 22 anyway. So doubt the pensions bit. 

How does NI work? I thought it was a fraction of salary, which in my son's case was zero. They may have paid something though good point I will tell him to look up his state pension history. 

My point is even though he was "employed" for two years he wasn't really. It was quite farcical he had to contact them and "resign" and they sent him a P45 I think. Makes nonsense of "jobless figures". 

No he will get nowt, nada, no NI credit, no pension credit etc. There is probably some advantage to the employer having him on their books, ups the % of young people they employ and maybe some training grant or something they can claim. And as you say the government can proudly announce that more people are employed than ever before and of course he was also not one of the 'unemployed' either.

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sleepwello'nights
5 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

Hadn't thought of that. Are you sure though? It was before compulsory workplace pensions also he was under 22 anyway. So doubt the pensions bit. 

How does NI work? I thought it was a fraction of salary, which in my son's case was zero. They may have paid something though good point I will tell him to look up his state pension history. 

My point is even though he was "employed" for two years he wasn't really. It was quite farcical he had to contact them and "resign" and they sent him a P45 I think. Makes nonsense of "jobless figures". 

Your National Insurance record is credited once your weekly income is above the lower earnings level, currently £116 per week or £503 per month. Contributions are not due until the primary threshold of £162 per week (£702 per month) is reached. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rates-and-allowances-national-insurance-contributions/rates-and-allowances-national-insurance-contributions

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