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UK commercial property investment plummets 19%


TheCountOfNowhere
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On 26/01/2020 at 15:54, Democorruptcy said:

The good news for investors, is that councils are buying a lot and paying way over the odds, so their losses have been reduced.

Leicester city council have made some horendous investments over the years.The coming problems in CRE wil no doubt result in a new batch of overpriced white elephants entering the taxpayers stable.

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I wonder if the councils have found a way to exploit the situation where a commercial property can be owned by a pension fund, so they buy with taxpayer money and get a pension off it when they retire.

This is available to people running a business that need premises where they can use a SIPP to buy the commercial property and their business pays their SIPP the rent and the business puts it through the accounts as normal, reducing the tax bill. B|

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3 hours ago, BoSon said:

I wonder if the councils have found a way to exploit the situation where a commercial property can be owned by a pension fund, so they buy with taxpayer money and get a pension off it when they retire.

This is available to people running a business that need premises where they can use a SIPP to buy the commercial property and their business pays their SIPP the rent and the business puts it through the accounts as normal, reducing the tax bill. B|

I dont think exploit is the appropriate word.

SIPPs offer business owners the chance to double up on the risk - having the business as their current income and a fair chunk of their pension (future income) fund.

Business goes tits up bang, no income, pension impaired.

Diversify.

The SIPP pension thing is a total N/A for LA pensions.

 

Im hoping some form of surcharge or insolvency can be applied to LAs as their commercial investments goes tits up.

Let the pain be felt by the LA employees only.

 

 

 

 

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  • 3 months later...
Democorruptcy
On 27/01/2020 at 22:26, sancho panza said:

Leicester city council have made some horendous investments over the years.The coming problems in CRE wil no doubt result in a new batch of overpriced white elephants entering the taxpayers stable.

Treasury catching us up...

Quote

 

The Treasury is poised to ban local authorities from buying up investment property, after a near-£7bn spending spree in the past three years which has left councils exposed to struggling commercial real estate just as the sector faces a severe downturn.

Dozens of councils are facing scrutiny after tapping low-cost loans from central government to buy investment properties for rental income as a way to shield themselves from deep cuts to their budgets by central government over the past decade.

The practice has grown exponentially in recent years with local authorities spending £6.6bn on commercial property between 2017 and 2019.

That was a 14-fold increase on the three years prior to that, according to Meg Hillier, the chair of the public accounts committee.

Retail property was already facing structural difficulties because of the rise of internet shopping. In the last two months it has been dealt a further severe blow by the coronavirus lockdown, with many retailers refusing to pay their full rent.

https://dnyuz.com/2020/05/20/treasury-set-to-curb-property-investments-by-councils/

 

 

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jamtomorrow
On 26/01/2020 at 15:54, Democorruptcy said:

The good news for investors, is that councils are buying a lot and paying way over the odds, so their losses have been reduced.

Happened here - council paid waaaaay over the odds for a plot of land, ostensibly for a new leisure centre, then whoops the leisure centre didn't happen and we now have a £2m car park with room for 20 or so cars. It's not even a prime location - arse end of nowhere market town.

Massive whiff of the pork barrel over this, and presumably all similar such examples.

"Coxy, could your department buy that plot of land off of our Eric? Only his Mrs won't stop going on at him about that place in Magaluf. £2m should do it"

455392611_images(3).jpeg.44996885eb04570df1fd580fd9542553.jpeg

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sancho panza

@spygirl

and @DurhamBorn ref deflationary sucking sound.

wasn't sure where to put this example of dumb fuckery.Council buys land,thereby surrendering income £46k (Pendragon I know) and picking up business rates bill £58k,to leave it empty.

I must be missing somehting ehre.

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/council-buying-leicester-car-showroom-3718125

 

Council bosses are to buy a car dealership site for more than £700,000.

Leicester City Council intends to acquire the disused showroom complex in Northgate Street, Frog Island, Leicester.

It already owns part of the 1.36 acre site occupied by the former Evans Halshaw showroom, but now wants to purchase the rest of it from car retailer Pendragon.

The deal would see the council surrender the lease it offers to Pendragon for the portion of the site the authority already owns.

That lease is worth £46,000 annually to the council and has 68 years to run.

However, the council says the loss of that income is reflected in the price it is paying for the rest of the site.

 

The asking price is £700,000, rising to £731,500 after Stamp Duty.

The council says it could re-let the site to generate income once the deal is complete, but says in the short term at least it will face paying £58,000 a year in empty business rates.

City mayor Sir Peter Soulsby said the purchase would secure the site, which is just across the A50 from where the council is leading a project to build 350 riverside homes, and prevent any kind of development not in keeping with its long-term strategy to regenerate the area.

“This property is in a potentially important location for the further development of the Waterside area, building on the momentum of regeneration nearby," the mayor said.

 

“Its acquisition means that the council can ensure that any future development of the site is in line with our vision for the regeneration of Waterside as a thriving neighbourhood with great places to live, work and do business in.

The council’s Waterside protect is a £250 million regeneration of a large wedge of run-down current and former industrial sites just outside the inner ring road, on the banks of the River Soar.

Leicestershire County Council last year brought a £3 million Citroen Garage opposite the King Power Stadium as an investment which earns County Hall £190,000.

If you want to stay up-to-date with the latest local democracy and politics news, and have your say on current issues in the city and county, join our Inside Leicestershire Politics Facebook group. Hundreds of people already have.

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2 hours ago, sancho panza said:

@spygirl

and @DurhamBorn ref deflationary sucking sound.

wasn't sure where to put this example of dumb fuckery.Council buys land,thereby surrendering income £46k (Pendragon I know) and picking up business rates bill £58k,to leave it empty.

I must be missing somehting ehre.

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/council-buying-leicester-car-showroom-3718125

 

Council bosses are to buy a car dealership site for more than £700,000.

Leicester City Council intends to acquire the disused showroom complex in Northgate Street, Frog Island, Leicester.

It already owns part of the 1.36 acre site occupied by the former Evans Halshaw showroom, but now wants to purchase the rest of it from car retailer Pendragon.

The deal would see the council surrender the lease it offers to Pendragon for the portion of the site the authority already owns.

That lease is worth £46,000 annually to the council and has 68 years to run.

However, the council says the loss of that income is reflected in the price it is paying for the rest of the site.

 

The asking price is £700,000, rising to £731,500 after Stamp Duty.

The council says it could re-let the site to generate income once the deal is complete, but says in the short term at least it will face paying £58,000 a year in empty business rates.

City mayor Sir Peter Soulsby said the purchase would secure the site, which is just across the A50 from where the council is leading a project to build 350 riverside homes, and prevent any kind of development not in keeping with its long-term strategy to regenerate the area.

“This property is in a potentially important location for the further development of the Waterside area, building on the momentum of regeneration nearby," the mayor said.

 

“Its acquisition means that the council can ensure that any future development of the site is in line with our vision for the regeneration of Waterside as a thriving neighbourhood with great places to live, work and do business in.

The council’s Waterside protect is a £250 million regeneration of a large wedge of run-down current and former industrial sites just outside the inner ring road, on the banks of the River Soar.

Leicestershire County Council last year brought a £3 million Citroen Garage opposite the King Power Stadium as an investment which earns County Hall £190,000.

If you want to stay up-to-date with the latest local democracy and politics news, and have your say on current issues in the city and county, join our Inside Leicestershire Politics Facebook group. Hundreds of people already have.

Take your pick.

 

But this is the best fit.

All towns are putting a plan together, looking at increasing housing stock by 20%+

God knows why. UK demographics will shrink. It's only doley migrants increasing the population.

If they fill the houses - and it's a big if - itll only be single mums on bennies. So, for each extra council tax payment, they have to spend 10k on extra services for the usual range of autistic kids, sen funding, battered wife etcetcetc.

We get this lunacy

https://www.thescarboroughnews.co.uk/news/politics/housing-market-broken-how-scarborough-council-aims-help-provide-homes-borough-2734309

On May 12 the authority’s cabinet is being asked to approve the start of a programme of work to help achieve the council’s aspirations.

Cllr Liz Colling, cabinet member for Inclusive Growth, said: “We are absolutely committed to helping people in our communities get a high quality and affordable home for life, to buy or rent.

“The housing market is broken and we are determined to do all we can to give our residents every opportunity by exploring new and innovative ways of delivery.

“This initiative will enable us to create an aspirational, fairer and more inclusive society.”

Affordable is sub 2x income. The problem is filling the area up with out of town Foley scum, and low wages due to concentrating on tourism.

https://www.thescarboroughnews.co.uk/news/low-wages-fuelling-scarborough-housing-crisis-313824

In Scarborough, despite average house prices being £122,100 lower than the national average, local wages mean homes cost nearly eight times typical incomes.”

The average house price in Scarborough is £166,000, £20,000 lower than the average across Yorkshire.

However, the mean average wage is just £21,258 per year, more than £3,000 less than the average in North Yorkshire alone. It is £7,000 below the national average.

In order to afford a standard 80% mortgage on an average home in Scarborough a worker would need to earn approximately £38,000 a year.

They've fucked the stats up. The 166k is the borough average. The average for Scabby town is about 80k.

Theres no shortage of housing in the area.

Adjust the bennie system, and there will be more as the scum from elsewhere will not be able to relocate.

The issue for everywhere in the UK is housing is too high for the income.

 

 

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7 hours ago, spygirl said:

Take your pick.

 

But this is the best fit.

All towns are putting a plan together, looking at increasing housing stock by 20%+

God knows why. UK demographics will shrink. It's only doley migrants increasing the population.

If they fill the houses - and it's a big if - itll only be single mums on bennies. So, for each extra council tax payment, they have to spend 10k on extra services for the usual range of autistic kids, sen funding, battered wife etcetcetc.

We get this lunacy

https://www.thescarboroughnews.co.uk/news/politics/housing-market-broken-how-scarborough-council-aims-help-provide-homes-borough-2734309

On May 12 the authority’s cabinet is being asked to approve the start of a programme of work to help achieve the council’s aspirations.

Cllr Liz Colling, cabinet member for Inclusive Growth, said: “We are absolutely committed to helping people in our communities get a high quality and affordable home for life, to buy or rent.

“The housing market is broken and we are determined to do all we can to give our residents every opportunity by exploring new and innovative ways of delivery.

“This initiative will enable us to create an aspirational, fairer and more inclusive society.”

Affordable is sub 2x income. The problem is filling the area up with out of town Foley scum, and low wages due to concentrating on tourism.

https://www.thescarboroughnews.co.uk/news/low-wages-fuelling-scarborough-housing-crisis-313824

In Scarborough, despite average house prices being £122,100 lower than the national average, local wages mean homes cost nearly eight times typical incomes.”

The average house price in Scarborough is £166,000, £20,000 lower than the average across Yorkshire.

However, the mean average wage is just £21,258 per year, more than £3,000 less than the average in North Yorkshire alone. It is £7,000 below the national average.

In order to afford a standard 80% mortgage on an average home in Scarborough a worker would need to earn approximately £38,000 a year.

They've fucked the stats up. The 166k is the borough average. The average for Scabby town is about 80k.

Theres no shortage of housing in the area.

Adjust the bennie system, and there will be more as the scum from elsewhere will not be able to relocate.

The issue for everywhere in the UK is housing is too high for the income.

 

 

Biggest problem I guess is the cost of paying private landlords is bankrupting us.. 

Round my way 3 bed house is from (sw london)£1500 a month for a shithole.. which has seen councils buying properties from estate agents to try and increase theyre stock,, escape from the landlords.. 

Who are providing an essential service.. 🤣

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PatronizingGit

20 years from now the councils will have turned all these sites into 'urban villages' (read, 30 storey tower blocks) for Pashtun warlords and their multitude of wives and 75 IQ somali scientists. Mark my words!

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8 hours ago, macca said:

Biggest problem I guess is the cost of paying private landlords is bankrupting us.. 

Round my way 3 bed house is from (sw london)£1500 a month for a shithole.. which has seen councils buying properties from estate agents to try and increase theyre stock,, escape from the landlords.. 

Who are providing an essential service.. 🤣

Paying benefits esp. to non nationals is bankrupting.

Flat HB cap of £400/m.

Both house prices and housing benefit have been allowed to run away from local incomes. Both need a hard reset.

On a side note, I very much doubt claims that 'London generates 30% of UK tax revenue'when you bet it out, both the bennie bill, transport sub and  cost of hosting finsec, at London breaks even. At worst it's a massive money sink.

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1 hour ago, PatronizingGit said:

20 years from now the councils will have turned all these sites into 'urban villages' (read, 30 storey tower blocks) for Pashtun warlords and their multitude of wives and 75 IQ somali scientists. Mark my words!

30 odd years ago it used to take decades for estates to shit holes.

Usual evolution was loads of families move to nice new estate, kids grow up, nowhere yo go, nothing to do, so roam n trash it.

A new largish estate in Scabby have achieved 30 years of scum in 2 years. 30% social housing mean's scum pour into housing estate. MrnMrs HTB PCP car then have to live near ShazzaMostDysfunction points, then Bazza comes out of prison and moves in (unofficialiy). Come summer n benny cheque, MrNMrs HTB host a garden people for the naice people whilst Bazza n Shazza fight n fuck in back garden and Kyle n mates zoom round on an exhaust less motorbike they nicked from town.

The FB comments are eye opening. I'm tempted to say Told you so.

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