The Up and Going Under Sports thread: starter for 10

[sancho panza]

Coming to a Premier/Football league near you sometime soon.

Wasps famously moved from Sudbury down south to enjoy the prosperity of Cov.................that panned out well.Huge debts too.

Anyway,this will create a few holes in income statements as other teams lose a home games revenue

Thankfully Coventry council(who love throwing money at sinking ships) have held back from committing their taxpayer base to more losses

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-council-vote-financial-25264359

Coventry City Council has rejected claims it plans to offer a financial support package to Wasps. It was reported that a meeting had been called for Labour Councillors to vote this evening on a financial package to help Wasps 'stave off' administration.

Two hours after the reports surfaced, the authority took to its Twitter account to set the record straight. It said: "Contrary to inaccurate media reports, there are NO plans to offer a financial support package to help #WaspsRugby stave off administration."

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/oct/12/wasps-pull-out-of-exeter-match-and-set-to-enter-administration-within-days

The Premiership has been plunged deeper into crisis with Wasps suspended and moving to the brink of relegation after revealing they are set to go into administration. The move comes less than a week after Worcester’s fate was sealed, leaving the league two clubs down barely a month into the season.

Wasps’ match against Exeter on Saturday has been cancelled, in effect because they had run out of money to operate, and, as was the case with Worcester, they have been suspended from the Premiership. As per Rugby Football Union, relegation is expected to be confirmed when administration materialises “in the coming days” for one of England’s most storied clubs.

It is understood Wasps players and staff were informed of the club’s imminent fate at a meeting at their training base at lunchtime on Wednesday with no guarantees over whether they would be paid October’s wages. If the company that holds their contracts enters administration it is expected that players could terminate their contracts immediately. If not, they can give 14 days’ notice once payday has come and gone.

It leaves Premiership Rugby in the desperate position of trying to complete the season with 11 teams. Furthermore, it is believed senior figures harbour concerns over another club’s financial outlook. PRL did not intend to redraw its fixture list despite Worcester’s departure from the league but that stance will surely change now and equally pressing will be remodelling the domestic structure.

Wasps had bought themselves time to find fresh investment by twice filing notice of intention to appoint administrators but while they have a handful of interested parties – including the former Newcastle United owner Mike Ashley – none appears either able or willing to conclude a deal before Monday’s deadline. Wasps owe £2m to HMRC and £35m to bondholders as part of the scheme that financed their move to Coventry, were the recipients of a government pandemic bailout and are in debt to the tune of nearly £20m to the owner, Derek Richardson.

RFU regulations dictate that Wasps will be relegated to the Championship for next season when administration is confirmed, with a senior source confirming that they will be treated in the same way as Worcester despite Lawrence Dallaglio’s plea on Sunday. Like Worcester they will be able to appeal against the decision and attempt to prove a “no-fault insolvency” while Wasps’ suspension will be lifted “if they are able to demonstrate the means and commitment to pay rugby creditors”.

Edited October 16, 2022 by sancho panza

[F150]

Good thread

Sport bubble is popping

look at Barcelona

no1 gives a fuck about the Olympics etc

Edited October 16, 2022 by F150

[Axeman123]

Old news: Wimbledon FC relocated to become the MK Dons in 2004.

[sancho panza]

55 minutes ago, Axeman123 said:

Old news: Wimbledon FC relocated to become the MK Dons in 2004.

I think that turned out to eb a damp squib as well.MK Dons ave attedance last year was 9000.Think Wimbledon used to get mroe in their heyday.

30 sept 22

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63080244

The cost of living crisis combined with spiralling energy costs is a "perfect storm causing huge problems" for football, says Inverness Caledonian Thistle chief executive Scot Gardiner.

He warns that away supports are "falling off the cliff" and "energy costs are clearly a huge, huge worry".

The Scottish Championship club, in keeping with others, are increasingly reliant on goodwill to keep going.

"We've cut our cloth, but we're also walking a fine line," Gardiner says.

"You're looking for support in relation to your cash flow as cash flow is very difficult right now and football clubs are notoriously a black hole for cash."

• SFA & SPFL open to earlier kick-offs to cut bills
• How cost of living crisis is affecting football
• SPFL announces record turnover

While some clubs are considering earlier kick-off times to reduce lighting costs, Gardiner says that is not possible for Caley Thistle because of the longer travel times for away supports already struggling to fund such trips.

, having already reduced ticket prices, the Scottish Championship club are exploring innovative ways to make ends meet.

"We spoke to the league last week and asked if they could ask all 42 clubs if their utilities contract was up for renewal so we could join up and have economies of scale," he tells BBC Scotland. "You have more buying power that way.

"We are potentially looking at going to pandemic hours of operation, so staff would work potentially at home, which would allow us to mitigate the costs of the stadium."

On Thursday, the SPFL announced a record turnover of almost £40m for last season, having earlier this week announced a new £150m Sky Sports television deal.

However, Gardiner points out that 82% of all revenues go to the 12 clubs in the Premiership, with 10% going to the Championship and the remainder to Leagues 1 and 2.

Gardiner does not "hold out any hope" of a change to that as it would require the top tier clubs voting to reduce their share.

The Caley Thistle chief executive admits that it can be "utterly exhausting" to be constantly battling against financial problems, but he remains optimistic.

[sancho panza]

More squaeling for taxpayer handouts

I think the days of people paying £400 a season ticket and hwoever much attedning games are drawing down.

Will be interesting tosee whether punters prioritize their football over other,cheaper leisure activites.

https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/news/fair-game-new-survey-reveals-cost-of-living-crisis-is-leaving-football-clubs-fearing-for-their-future

New survey reveals cost-of-living crisis is leaving football clubs fearing for their future

• Lunchtime kick-offs backed
• Ground improvements put on hold
• Non-playing staff facing cuts
• Premier League and government urged to intervene
• Fair Game clubs keen to open grounds to the vulnerable

A NEW survey from Fair Game has revealed a deep-seated fear amongst the nation’s lower league clubs as the cost-of-living crisis starts to hit.

The organisation, which is campaigning for improved governance of the game, surveyed 40 clubs from across the pyramid (one in the Championship, five in League One, Six in League Two, nine in the National League, seven in National League North, six in National League South, and five further down the pyramid).

The results are stark with clubs urging the government and the Premier League to address the game’s financial flow as a matter of urgency.

Nearly all the clubs surveyed were either concerned or very concerned about the cost-of-living crisis. On average, out of 10, the clubs’ level of concern was a massive 7.15 – a figure that peaked amongst clubs in League Two (8.20).

Of the 40 clubs polled, 68% demanded extra financial support from the Premier League with 53% asking for state intervention.

The Premier League are set to reveal their own plans for football in a “New Deal” later today, but it is expected to offer little or nothing for the clubs outside the country’s top two divisions.

Clubs are also considering drastic action to tackle the cost-of-living crisis:

• 63% would consider lunchtime kick-offs for weekend League matches;
• 50% would consider lunchtime kick-offs for FA Cup ties;
• 60% are toying with halting ground improvements; and
• 38% would look at cutting the non-playing staff budget.

Notably only 25% of clubs would consider cutting players’ wages – and most of those clubs are outside the country’s top four tiers.

However, the clubs were also willing to help their community with 68% willing to open up space in their stadium to help keep the vulnerable warm – a figure that rose to 89% among the 20 Fair Game member clubs that replied to the survey.

Meanwhile, 57% of Fair Game clubs are keen to explore a joint deal to supply renewable energy – mainly among the clubs outside the EFL, who are not tied to existing deals.

Niall Couper, CEO of Fair Game, said: “The results paint a very bleak future for football outside the top echelons of the game.

“Having survived the pandemic, the cost-of-living crisis could well be the death knell for the hard-working community clubs lower down the pyramid.

“Lower league football clubs are the heartbeat of their communities, but right now they are in intensive care.

“The Premier League are at best going to offer a sticky plaster. They have had decades to address the problem and they should stand aside.

“It is now up to the Government to intervene.

“The recent Fan-Led Review set up by the Conservative Party revealed the financial flow within the game, and the governance that sits behind it, is broken.

“Fair Game are calling for action now. We were promised Levelling Up, instead we could see the levelling of football stadia across the country with decades of history and tradition wiped off the map.

“The Government needs to deliver on its promise of an independent regulator now. A regulator that can oversee football’s financial flow. Without it the pyramid of our national game will crumble.”
 
Polling was conducted over the last two weeks via an online survey.

[HousePriceMania]

Everyone wants a bailout 

 

If you believe the msm, everyone apart from workers, savers and the poor 

[Axeman123]

Watching football in person isn't an essential, and unlike in the seventies it isn't even a cheap bit of escapism. It would defy logic for it not to get hit hard in a recession.

The biggest issue IMO is that most youngish "football fans" have picked a premiership team and got into watching it on TV, rather than going to the local side with dad etc from an early age. Many only get to a couple of matches a season at £100+ a time. That is a very different connection to the team and sport, and IMO it will be just another discretionary spend and first in the firing line when finances get tight.

(I don't actually follow football myself though)

[sancho panza]

2 minutes ago, Axeman123 said:

Watching football in person isn't an essential, and unlike in the seventies it isn't even a cheap bit of escapism. It would defy logic for it not to get hit hard in a recession.

The biggest issue IMO is that most youngish "football fans" have picked a premiership team and got into watching it on TV, rather than going to the local side with dad etc from an early age. Many only get to a couple of matches a season at £100+ a time. That is a very different connection to the team and sport, and IMO it will be just another discretionary spend and first in the firing line when finances get tight.

(I don't actually follow football myself though)

Very much along my own thoughts now you mention it like this.

When I was a kid in the 70's.football was cheap.I saw Rangers a few times back in 1990-92 and it was £3 a ticket.A lot fo teh fans were diehards.

Different thing today.No longer working class.

Like you,I think for a lot of fans now it's a past time.A mate who's a diehard city fan watches all the games in the pub and the atmosphere is great with al the other people who can't afford a ticket

 

Backed up by google and this article is from 2011

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2027382/Premier-League-football-tickets-soar-1-000-decades.html

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator

[Castlevania]

5 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

Very much along my own thoughts now you mention it like this.

When I was a kid in the 70's.football was cheap.I saw Rangers a few times back in 1990-92 and it was £3 a ticket.A lot fo teh fans were diehards.

Different thing today.No longer working class.

Like you,I think for a lot of fans now it's a past time.A mate who's a diehard city fan watches all the games in the pub and the atmosphere is great with al the other people who can't afford a ticket

 

Backed up by google and this article is from 2011

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2027382/Premier-League-football-tickets-soar-1-000-decades.html

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator

Is £28 expensive to watch a Premier League football team? I think that’s not bad value for an afternoon out of the house.

[Axeman123]

5 minutes ago, Castlevania said:

Is £28 expensive to watch a Premier League football team? I think that’s not bad value for an afternoon out of the house.

My mate the Chelsea fan reckoned it was £100 a time for a home match, just ticket and basic transport because he lived outside London. I suspect that is representative for Premiership attendance now.

Per @sancho panza's link that £28 figure is A) from 2011 and B) those tickets are "golddust".

[Castlevania]

12 minutes ago, Axeman123 said:

My mate the Chelsea fan reckoned it was £100 a time for a home match, just ticket and basic transport because he lived outside London. I suspect that is representative for Premiership attendance now.

Per @sancho panza's link that £28 figure is A) from 2011 and B) those tickets are "golddust".

Spurs and Arsenal seem to have season tickets that work out at around £100 per game

https://www.statista.com/statistics/328654/premier-league-teams-ranked-by-most-expensive-season-ticket-price/

At the other end, many teams cheapest season tickets work out at around £20-25 per game. That’s not bad in my opinion.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/328650/premier-league-teams-ranked-by-cheapest-season-ticket-price/#:~:text=Liverpool%2C during the 2018%2F19 season%2C sold the cheapest,was sold by Arsenal at 97 British pounds.

[Axeman123]

3 minutes ago, Castlevania said:

At the other end, many teams cheapest season tickets work out at around £20-25 per game. That’s not bad in my opinion.

From your link: West Ham are cheapest, at £299. That is still a big financial commitment for a lot of people, especially if there is travel on top.

Quoting it per game is a bit sly IMO (no offence), it is still £299.

Those cheapest season tickets (presumably for the shittiest seats) will also presumably be like gold dust, there might only be a hundred available for example.

[Castlevania]

3 minutes ago, Axeman123 said:

From your link: West Ham are cheapest, at £299. That is still a big financial commitment for a lot of people, especially if there is travel on top.

Quoting it per game is a bit sly IMO (no offence), it is still £299.

Those cheapest season tickets (presumably for the shittiest seats) will also presumably be like gold dust, there might only be a hundred available for example.

You get 19 games for that! Anyhow outside of the big London clubs it’s not ridiculous in my opinion. 

[King Penda]

Vale will be fucked

[sancho panza]

1 hour ago, Castlevania said:

Is £28 expensive to watch a Premier League football team? I think that’s not bad value for an afternoon out of the house.

the article wasfrom 2011 CV.

Curretn cheapest ticket at man utd appears to be around £50( a lot of games are much more)

Min wage in 2011 was £6.08

I remember working as a security guard in 1990 for £2.25 per hour(no min wage)

Current min wage is £9.50

So weve gone from 90 minutes pya in 1990 to watch a top team to 5 hours pay ..or so

 

[sancho panza]

1 hour ago, Castlevania said:

Spurs and Arsenal seem to have season tickets that work out at around £100 per game

https://www.statista.com/statistics/328654/premier-league-teams-ranked-by-most-expensive-season-ticket-price/

At the other end, many teams cheapest season tickets work out at around £20-25 per game. That’s not bad in my opinion.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/328650/premier-league-teams-ranked-by-cheapest-season-ticket-price/#:~:text=Liverpool%2C during the 2018%2F19 season%2C sold the cheapest,was sold by Arsenal at 97 British pounds.

Nice find I love statista,cant believe they publish this data

Agree on the lower end teams but you do have to question how much people will pay to watch a chamionship team?

Edited October 16, 2022 by sancho panza

[sancho panza]

59 minutes ago, Castlevania said:

You get 19 games for that! Anyhow outside of the big London clubs it’s not ridiculous in my opinion. 

For me the comparison of vlaue here is ticket/local min wage.I think where your operating at 1.5 times that's good,I think 3+ is where they'll be exposed

Think cheapest season ticket is a great metric to measure by.

Leicester £695 is epxnesive for lcoal economy.That's £35 a game.Wages are poor round ehre

If I could get tickets for Leicester at £20,I'd take my eldest for sure

Edited October 16, 2022 by sancho panza

[Stuey]

I used to go to half of the Red Devils rugby games when tickets were £14 and the train was a similar amount.

Those prices have doubled (though my wage quadrupled) and adding on booze it's a £100 day out. Plus we got into the habit of losing so £100 to get pissed off isn't good value. 

[Frank Hovis]

All of the football clubs going bust and then reforming under a Fans Trust, as Exeter is governed, would be fantastic for the English game.

We would be back to the best supported clubs having the most money and hence success rather than the ones with the richest foreign owners.

It is hard to pick out the worst owners as there are so many of them; Newcastle maybe with the House of Saud.

[Kevin Redshaw]

Wasps used to play at Wickham Wanderers FC before they moved to Coventry. Rugby Union has aspired to be like professional football for quite a while now. The problem is that there's not enough private schoolies who are prepared to go and pay and watch it to make it viable. 

[katar]

The basis of this is that paying to watch sports is discretionary spending.  When times get hard people focus on necessities.  We've been living in a prosperous time for a very long time, now the squeeze is on.  Other expensive leisure activities are likely to suffer  e.g gyms, pubs, clubs etc.  Sports and physical activities will continue to exist, but there will be a growth of amateurism, people doing it because they enjoy it.   

 

[Frank Hovis]

1 hour ago, katar said:

The basis of this is that paying to watch sports is discretionary spending.  When times get hard people focus on necessities.  We've been living in a prosperous time for a very long time, now the squeeze is on.  Other expensive leisure activities are likely to suffer  e.g gyms, pubs, clubs etc.  Sports and physical activities will continue to exist, but there will be a growth of amateurism, people doing it because they enjoy it.   

 

 

Yes, not sport related but my spendthrift brother used to not even check his credit card bills.

Even he has now begun to question quite why he is paying £100 a month for TV and that's the nearest he's ever come to saying: "How much?".

If he's doing that then everybody will.

[spunko]

22 hours ago, katar said:

The basis of this is that paying to watch sports is discretionary spending.  When times get hard people focus on necessities.  We've been living in a prosperous time for a very long time, now the squeeze is on.  Other expensive leisure activities are likely to suffer  e.g gyms, pubs, clubs etc.  Sports and physical activities will continue to exist, but there will be a growth of amateurism, people doing it because they enjoy it.   

 

I am not sure how pubs can suffer any more than they have in the past few years.  A national tragedy.

Nobody will care until it is too late.

[katar]

30 minutes ago, spunko said:

I am not sure how pubs can suffer any more than they have in the past few years.  A national tragedy.

Nobody will care until it is too late.

There's many empty pub premises around already as a result of this decline.  It just seems inevitable, that there will be more closures.   Those aspects of life, that made life enjoyable are disappearing, for now.  Nevertheless, the human instinct for conviviality, won't be extinguished - and somehow, somewhen - something like the hospitality sector will revive.  It just takes time for the recession/depression to pass through, like some awful economic hurricane.

[spunko]

11 minutes ago, katar said:

There's many empty pub premises around already as a result of this decline.  It just seems inevitable, that there will be more closures.   Those aspects of life, that made life enjoyable are disappearing, for now.  Nevertheless, the human instinct for conviviality, won't be extinguished - and somehow, somewhen - something like the hospitality sector will revive.  It just takes time for the recession/depression to pass through, like some awful economic hurricane.

Surely a chicken or egg situation. If more people went to their local, they'd enjoy life more.