Mortgages and estate agents

[sarahbell]

 

 

About half way through - they would offer you "premium services" if you go with their mortgage advisor?

[HousePriceMania]

The whole UK housing market is rotten, properly criminal

https://www.connells.co.uk/about-connells/skipton-group

 

https://www.connellsgroup.co.uk/our-group/our-brands/



That's half of them

[logan]

I heard recently from a friend who has a son working for an estate agent in the south east that most of the agents at this one particular agency accept cash bribes from property renovators to ensure they are given the property at a lower price.
An example he gave was that one property was offered at £625k by a couple, but a property renovator’s offer was accepted instead at £560k…why, because they bribed the estate agent, a young 19 year old lad with £5k cash. The seller was not told about the higher offer.
I said to the friend “surely that can’t be happening”. He said, why do you think these young estate agents are wearing designer suits and driving the latest car?!!

!!!

 

[Axeman123]

@logan those stories are so common they must be based on reality.

Generally it is in relation to fixer-uppers AIUI, which are sold without ever going to market and have opaque valuation. 

[One percent]

32 minutes ago, Axeman123 said:

@logan those stories are so common they must be based on reality.

Generally it is in relation to fixer-uppers AIUI, which are sold without ever going to market and have opaque valuation. 

What seller though would agree to sell a house under value?  

[sarahbell]

5 minutes ago, One percent said:

What seller though would agree to sell a house under value?  

Usually old people moving on to care homes, or those who have died.

There've been some houses over the years locally which have bene bought by EA and appear quickly as rentals before people know they'd even been for sale.

They only have to declare an interest when selling AFAIK

[Axeman123]

27 minutes ago, One percent said:

What seller though would agree to sell a house under value?  

If the house was in a state (as @sarahbell says care home or probate) and they just want it sold the agent can tell them it will be difficult and give them a low number, and then say good news I have found someone that will go a bit higher, quick quick before they change their mind.

I remember years ago fixing up an inherited house to sell, and a vague acqaintence hearing about this started going on about it being "free money" to me that I must "just want rid" "not even care" and saying "cheap cheap" over and over. The last part was almost like they were attempting NLP on me, it was fucking surreal! Apparently they had bought and sold a few houses over the years, so maybe that had actually worked for them in the past. Either that or my shaved head actually made them think I have cognitive issues!

[sarahbell]

10 minutes ago, Axeman123 said:

If the house was in a state (as @sarahbell says care home or probate) and they just want it sold the agent can tell them it will be difficult and give them a low number, and then say good news I have found someone that will go a bit higher, quick quick before they change their mind.

 

You cynic.
Suspect you're absolutely right though. Low ball valuation followed by kind generous offer "we don't normally do this" sort of nonsense from the crap-heads.

[Andersen]

Speaking from personal experience:

I went to view a fixer~upper, estate agent knew I was a no fuss buyer and it would be any easy sale for the vendor. Told EA I'd like to offer £xxx (a bit cheeky but not insulting), EA told me seller had authorised them to reject anything under £<lots>. I'm sure it was lies so mate of EA could offer same as me and seller would be told "we tried to sell it but only got 1 offer ~ I'd advise you to accept it" 

I'm on good terms with my local EA. He told me it's illegal / conflict of interest for him to buy a property he's been given to sell. Easy fixed as he let's other local EAs know when he is asked to sell something at a bargain price, they let him know when they get a bargain. All legit but explains why bargains are sold before they are even advertised. 

1 hour ago, One percent said:

What seller though would agree to sell a house under value?  

Forced sale (messy divorce etc) and just wants it sold? Needs funds ASAP? I bought one place cheap as vendor had a Thai bride waiting and she was getting impatient. Bought another and was getting balif visits / summons to court about debts for months after in the name of vendor. 

Selling to go into a care home is one of the few times when it's not sensible to sell under value. If the care home / council find out they get upset as they wanted max sale price ~ to pay their fees as long as possible before you qualify for state funded care. I'm going through this now and have advised the vendor to get valuations from 3 EAs just so they can show sale price is fair market value. Sad times. 

[Bobthebuilder]

2 hours ago, logan said:

I heard recently from a friend who has a son working for an estate agent in the south east that most of the agents at this one particular agency accept cash bribes from property renovators to ensure they are given the property at a lower price.
An example he gave was that one property was offered at £625k by a couple, but a property renovator’s offer was accepted instead at £560k…why, because they bribed the estate agent, a young 19 year old lad with £5k cash. The seller was not told about the higher offer.
I said to the friend “surely that can’t be happening”. He said, why do you think these young estate agents are wearing designer suits and driving the latest car?!!

!!!

 

It happens, brown paper envelopes on the purchase, and the sell after the works.

[spygirl]

On 29/12/2022 at 11:55, logan said:

I heard recently from a friend who has a son working for an estate agent in the south east that most of the agents at this one particular agency accept cash bribes from property renovators to ensure they are given the property at a lower price.
An example he gave was that one property was offered at £625k by a couple, but a property renovator’s offer was accepted instead at £560k…why, because they bribed the estate agent, a young 19 year old lad with £5k cash. The seller was not told about the higher offer.
I said to the friend “surely that can’t be happening”. He said, why do you think these young estate agents are wearing designer suits and driving the latest car?!!

!!!

 

But they are not, as a rule.

EA are empty.

[spygirl]

On 29/12/2022 at 12:21, Axeman123 said:

@logan those stories are so common they must be based on reality.

Generally it is in relation to fixer-uppers AIUI, which are sold without ever going to market and have opaque valuation. 

I'm not sure.

I suspect it happened in the past but the fallout today is massive.

Sale price is too easy to find out.

I'm sure anyone who's seriously offered on a house only to lose it will look the sale price up on land registry.

In which case, both the rejected buyer and house seller would be able to sue the EA.

 

[sarahbell]

8 minutes ago, spygirl said:

I'm not sure.

I suspect it happened in the past but the fallout today is massive.

Sale price is too easy to find out.

I'm sure anyone who's seriously offered on a house only to lose it will look the sale price up on land registry.

In which case, both the rejected buyer and house seller would be able to sue the EA.

 

Oddly there are exemptions to the public data.

Any deemed to be below market value for a range of reasons. 

[Andersen]

1 hour ago, sarahbell said:

Oddly there are exemptions to the public data.

Any deemed to be below market value for a range of reasons. 

That would explain a few things, do you have any links or more info? 

I spoke to a chap doing renovations on a house a few doors along from a place we were expecting to put on the market soon'ish. The place that had been sold didn't appear on any listing websites I could find. Normally to sold price history is accurate but it can take a couple of months for sales to appear.

[sarahbell]

Data excluded from Price Paid Data

Our Price Paid Data includes information on all residential property sales in England and Wales that are sold for value and are lodged with us for registration.

Our Price Paid Data excludes:

• sales that have not been lodged with HM Land Registry
• sales that were not for value
• transfers, conveyances, assignments or leases at a premium with nominal rent, which are:
  • ‘Right to buy’ sales at a discount
  • subject to an existing mortgage
  • to effect the sale of a share in a property, for example, a transfer between parties on divorce
  • by way of a gift
  • under a compulsory purchase order
  • under a court order
  • to Trustees appointed under Deed of appointment
• Vesting Deeds Transmissions or Assents of more than one property

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/about-the-price-paid-data#data-excluded-from-price-paid-data

 

[sarahbell]

Data excluded from Price Paid Data

Our Price Paid Data includes information on all residential property sales in England and Wales that are sold for value and are lodged with us for registration.

Our Price Paid Data excludes:

• sales that have not been lodged with HM Land Registry
• sales that were not for value
• transfers, conveyances, assignments or leases at a premium with nominal rent, which are:
  • ‘Right to buy’ sales at a discount
  • subject to an existing mortgage
  • to effect the sale of a share in a property, for example, a transfer between parties on divorce
  • by way of a gift
  • under a compulsory purchase order
  • under a court order
  • to Trustees appointed under Deed of appointment
• Vesting Deeds Transmissions or Assents of more than one property

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/about-the-price-paid-data#data-excluded-from-price-paid-data

 

10. Absence of an entry

The fact that a price paid entry does not appear in the register does not necessarily mean there has been a gift of the property. The price paid information provided may have been misleading (for some reason associated with the nature of the transaction concerned) or the price may not have been readily ascertainable. It is also possible that HM Land Registry received the application to register the change of ownership before 1 April 2000 (which is when we started entering the price paid in the register) or some aspect of the transaction would make the entry of value stated misleading.

Examples of when we may not make an entry are:

transfers of shares (where only the value of the share is given)

transfers subject to a charge

only part of the property is being acquired on the death of a joint proprietor

purchase of the freehold by the existing leaseholder who is applying for merger of their lease

transfers that refer in the consideration panel to unpaid purchase money or obligations to pay further sums

transfers that include more than 5 titles and the consideration has not been apportioned

transfer in settlement of a debt, by way of distribution in specie or in consideration of shares

In these cases, we will not make any fresh entry of the price paid or value stated but we will retain any existing price paid or value stated entry.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/price-paid-or-value-information-registration-procedures/practice-guide-7-entry-of-price-paid-or-value-stated-data-in-the-register

[Boon]

No doubt it happens; the people involved might talk all the time and become friends. Then it is easy for an EA to bad-mouth a bid, or say it is not available when someone enquires. Not easy to prove a fraud to the necessary probability.

I think if it was that easy for an outside to come in and bribe someone for favours there would have been an undercover sting catching them red-handed.

Now I am not a suit expert but in a similar vein I think there is a FX trading school near here and the chaps wear the same type of 'flash' suits. They are not expensive, just go on ASOS. After a certain time these chaps will realise the truth, that fit counts more, a reasonable quality suit tailored to fit looks better than an untailored designer one unless you get very lucky with the sizing.

You can lease a BMW or something for around £200 a month. So it is relatively cheap to look a lot richer than you are.