Credit deflation and the reflation cycle to come (part 2)

[Majorpain]

4 minutes ago, Cattle Prod said:

Gold futures gapped up last night too. Finally taking notice of real yields, I hope.

Silver as well, Comex futures expiry tail still wagging physical dog.

[DurhamBorn]

BAE have also upped the divi by 5% and a £500 million share buyback.Another cycle play starting to deliver early.

Its very interesting how some areas have delivered everything very early,like Potash and Uranium,others are now starting to deliver very nicely,like oil and gas,others like tobacco are treading water,but balance sheets heading in the right direction and divis providing the real income and telcos struggling to show their structural undervaluation as Capex leads need another 6 months to start to feed to cash.

Overall though i think we are doing very well with our diversity of assets and i actually think we are lucky that some are responding early and hard as we can skim profits and re-allocate to laggards.

[Harley]

13 minutes ago, Cattle Prod said:

Gold futures gapped up last night too. Finally taking notice of real yields, I hope.

I'm watching physical (in GBP) like a hawk, waiting for my oppo to tell me to take the shot (although that could be EOY or next year!):

. A so-so buy signal on the weekly in Apr21.  Still intact despite the 4% down in Jun21.  Bounced from there to form a potential trend line but that bounce is currently reversing.

. An even more so-so buy signal on the monthly in May21 with a poor follow through in Jun21.  That signal was nullified in Jul21.  Overall this is good though as a sustainable uptrend often has to base like this.

. No buy signal on the daily yet but getting close with a blip today, although that could be no more than a few days relief from the current downtrend.

My most likely current worst case scenario is a retest of the £1,200 zone so about 8% from here.  That would confirm the long term (monthly) upward trend line from the Nov16 low which would actually be overall bullish.

[Lightscribe]

Fres on its way up now, got several buys in the 700’s zone, happy with that.

[Harley]

31 minutes ago, DurhamBorn said:

BAE have also upped the divi by 5% and a £500 million share buyback.Another cycle play starting to deliver early.

Its very interesting how some areas have delivered everything very early,like Potash and Uranium,others are now starting to deliver very nicely,like oil and gas,others like tobacco are treading water,but balance sheets heading in the right direction and divis providing the real income and telcos struggling to show their structural undervaluation as Capex leads need another 6 months to start to feed to cash.

Overall though i think we are doing very well with our diversity of assets and i actually think we are lucky that some are responding early and hard as we can skim profits and re-allocate to laggards.

That's a relief as I hate holding zero yielding stocks!  IMO, BAE is a great example of the current state of play.  It's popped nearly 10% MTD but is now entering the overbought zone.  However, it did this in Aug16 and kept running up in that zone until Jul17.  Will this repeat?  As much as I dislike setups like this (trading in the "death zone"), the other technicals I look at look good (MACD only recently got the cross and the candle action).  DYOR, etc.

[dnb24]

37 minutes ago, DurhamBorn said:

I bet it was very interesting listening to them.

Yes it was, especially the lifestyles- two had just purchased £2million+ houses- both very pleased to have completed before the SLDT deadline as well.

You’re right though-even though one of the guys said he was on the long side  it felt a lot like they wouldn’t hold through volatility and only change position once the consensus is in. They were concerned though that this may be their 2008 moment- where the young guns come in (like they did in 2008) and replace the old boys (them). 

[Harley]

17 minutes ago, Lightscribe said:

Fres on its way up now, got several buys in the 700’s zone, happy with that.

Good spot, ta.  I wish they offered a better yield though.  I'm only asking for 3%!  IMO, a strong move yesterday and a gap today on the daily.  IMO, the weekly looking good too but the monthly not there yet so could be another basing bounce.  Thanks, as that's encouraged me to work through my preferred list where I'm seeing similar proof of life!  DYOR, etc!    

[DurhamBorn]

Just now, dnb24 said:

Yes it was, especially the lifestyles- two had just purchased £2million+ houses- both very pleased to have completed before the SLDT deadline as well.

You’re right though-even though one of the guys said he was on the long side  it felt a lot like they wouldn’t hold through volatility and only change position once the consensus is in. They were concerned though that this may be their 2008 moment- where the young guns come in (like they did in 2008) and replace the old boys (them). 

From Telefonica TEF results todays,

Also noteworthy in the 2Q was the reduction of the negative impact of foreign exchange rates, mainly from Latin American currencies. The appreciation of the Brazilian real since April limited the impact of exchange rates on OIBDA to €78 million in the second quarter, well below the €288 million effect in the first three months of 202

[DoINeedOne]

1 hour ago, dnb24 said:

Yes it was, especially the lifestyles- two had just purchased £2million+ houses- both very pleased to have completed before the SLDT deadline as well.

You’re right though-even though one of the guys said he was on the long side  it felt a lot like they wouldn’t hold through volatility and only change position once the consensus is in. They were concerned though that this may be their 2008 moment- where the young guns come in (like they did in 2008) and replace the old boys (them). 

With most fund managers from what i have read, so anyone correct me if I'm wrong

but they have more people to answer too, performance reviews and sometimes bonuses link to performance etc.... a few books stated these as some of the reasons individual investors can out perform as we only have ourselves to answer too and can wait longer 

Also interesting to different opinions though

[Loki]

4 hours ago, sleepwello'nights said:

Oh fuck. I bought a thirsty V8 as fuel prices dropped. Trouble was there was nowhere to go as my travel plans for a road trip were stalled by covid (sorry) travel restrictions. 

Now that it looks like travel restrictions are going to be relaxed fuel prices are going up. 

My timing definitely out of step 

4.0 V6 truck for me - it's here, still waiting for it to be road registered, then the pain will start 

[Loki]

4 hours ago, planit said:

Shell results - $5.534bn for the qtr. 

$2bn of buybacks in the second half and 40% increase in dividend.

Beats the [outdated] analyst estimates. Trading profits were low and they still don't seem confident in their language or their strategy.

If this was repeated each quarter for the year, it gives a PE ratio of under 7. Completely crazy, these companies are prices as declining businesses.

 

I am hoping the BP results will be even better, they have a clearer strategy (which not everyone will like - but at least it's clear) and more positive attitude. I also hope that their trading arm has had another bumper qtr as the momentum in fuel prices continued from the first half. As I said before, anything less than $1bn of share buybacks for the qtr I will be disappointed with but in order form them to keep up with their promises, I am looking for $1.3-1.5bn.

Apologies if telling everyone something they already know, I looked up the date of this announcement and it's the 3rd - there's also a Q&A session where we could submit the question about share buybacks if they don't mention it

https://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/investors/results-and-reporting.html

[Popuplights]

RDSB jumped nicely. Nearly in the blue with my holding of that!

[leonardratso]

20 minutes ago, Popuplights said:

RDSB jumped nicely. Nearly in the blue with my holding of that!

hey could have been though a euphoric high, a busted flush and a breakeven, a busted flush, a euphoric high and another breakeven if you'd have just stuck all that cash into bitcoin over that time frame.

[JMD]

7 hours ago, Lightscribe said:

I’ll take the indemnity card of crypto here to mention sparingly, because I consider it will almost definitely be financially related to all of us in future. YRS can have dumpster diving. DB gets pizzas/pie making. M&S out of season clothes, reduced sticker bargains. If anyone else has any more indemnities let me know and I’ll jot them down and remind everyone If anyone objects.

Well I've been posting some crap recently about carbon credits* (i've still much to learn about them; and tbh crypto and post-modernism Western collapse remain my real secret vices!?!). 

*...anyhow i'm hoping (praying!) that TPTB environ'mental'-religious-zealots will leave me alone if i buy/hold their newly fashioned  'indulgences' for my sipp!!!     

Indulgence - Wikipedia

 

[Hancock]

52 minutes ago, Popuplights said:

RDSB jumped nicely. Nearly in the blue with my holding of that!

Thats unfortunate i was hoping for a crash so i could pile in.

Wonder if i'm a rabbit in the headlights waiting for a stock market crash just as i was in waiting for a HPC!

Emailed the person about the self build scheme the other day ... and still nothing ... she's been on the payroll of the taxpayer for a couple of years that i'm aware of to get this scheme off the ground and not one plot has been found ... she seems to be doing her bit to confirm my prejudice that most woman and those in the public sector are f'en useless.

[JMD]

5 hours ago, dnb24 said:

Anecdotal- I had an interesting conversation with some fund managers on the weekend at a one year olds birthday party! one guy ran the long investment part for pension funds in a Brazilian bank- we had a few words about how things were working- and how there might be some value in some parts of the Brazilian telecoms etc. He was pretty adamant the whole Brazilian economy was shot, people are getting their money out and he didn’t see value anywhere in their economy due to the political state. 
It was an interesting take, as these guys were very confident that the economy was coming back as pre pandemic, they were sure the London property market was going to bounce back very quickly, and that finance in the city and the commercial units would also bounce back very well. 
I didn’t want to point out DBs roadmap and how accurate it’s been so far, or point to the direction of change that i can see- as who knows what’s round the corner- but the vibe I got was “more of the same” and not any feeling of things have changed.

'Anecdotal' you say? Please don't undersell your-self, after all that's your 'lived experience' - and anyone that disagrees is probably an elitist neo-imperialist type, and is committing hate against you.

(nb. no offence meant to any neo-imperialist who may/may not have been present at that birthday party)

[sancho panza]

19 hours ago, Cattle Prod said:

I think there is another run up in it, yes. The draws are fairly normal for this time of year, but we are already at a pretty low level. The devil in in the detail of the report that never tends to get reported: implied demand is up, and production dropped 200k a day.

As I said before the production figures in the weekly are inaccurate and the monthly data is better, but good to see it drop back where it should be. Should give investors pause for thought. Are they finally running out of DUCs to cover their area with? Maybe. Next report on that is mid August.

One thing I do know is that companies have been pulling in lots of free cash over the last few months, and it's going to get reported in the coming weeks. Did you see Rio?!

I spent msot of yesterday focused on telecoms when I wasn't running around under orders from Mrs P ref kids lunches/dinners vomit.So I appreciate the ehads up on that oen.I've had a look ...wow....

We aren't really in these miners at all,hence why I maybe don't watch them.The interesting bit for me is the last screenshot.Supply in a lot of things is getting constrained for political/security reasons.

our options positions will get reduced,I took advantage of XOM at $55 the other week and got straight into BP/Shell as well.but I'm looking at the long side of these commodity trades and I'm jsut not seeing a reason to sell the underlying yet.I'm jsut not.And I'm one of the biggest BK chatter mongers on here.

 

Confirming South Africa is deeper in the mire than even your average basement dweller thought.

13 hours ago, DurhamBorn said:

I had a look through Telefonica Brasil and Germany results tonight and it seems their costs are going up at less than inflation but their prices are going up with inflation.That is exactly what i want to see at this start of the cycle.Free cash should start to increase for most telcos from the 2nd half of this year if that carries on.We might see some up investment though slightly,so we might not see the depreciation cash boost feeding through until another year or so,but the gains building underneath should still turn to cash as long as inflation stays above 2%.

Iv also been looking at the inflation feedback loops from renewables and i dont think the market or government understand the scale of them building.I think copper is certain to double if they stick to the climate goals.Thats before they increase carbon tax/credits.If they do it will be higher,and copper doubling will push up the costs of renewables and EVs etc by a large margin.Iv been doing a rough cross market with oil and gas on this and think $200 oil is almost certain,gas should treble from here,though might need another 18 months consolidating then a big run higher.

The interesting thing is that most of the oil and gas bears think EVs collapsing in price will speed up the transition,my take is the opposite,costs of renewables and EVs is going to increase with a lag and will go up in tandem with fossil fuels.

 

 

As aobve DB ,I spent yesterday buying a couple and am spending today before I go to work,sorting out the buying ladders.

Must give you a 'thanks',for telling me you were buying Turkcell/Orange.Much as they score well in the coma scores,I left them alone for geo politcal/balance sheet reasons.Forced me to take a good look and have since been buying.Not massive amounts but there';s a really decent opportunity here imho.Been buying Sintel/Tel Deutsch/TIM/Tel Bra/ as well to add to the Vod/BT we already have.

Still waiting for telstra to come back down some.Can I ask if you'd consider if you bother with otehr EU providers like proximus/Italia/Drillisch or teh jFar east eg Korea tel/Nippon?no Pressure.

19 hours ago, Loki said:

chambers......chambers............ambers..............................bers.................................ers    

It's taken me a day to get that....................

12 hours ago, Hancock said:

Yes need our own Nostradamus Mr DB, to let me know the exact date and time of the BK ... cant but help feel a interest rate rise in the next 6 months isnt going to be the great shock those claiming an 80% crash are claliming.

Anyway knocked up a list of what to spend the money formerly set aside to buy a houses on, any suggestion on how to improve it is appreciate.

Trying to do some organisation as my SIPP looks like i got a monkey to throw darts at  FTSE/NYSE companies to select them.

Harry Dent gives it another 2 and a bit months.
https://www.thinkadvisor.com/2021/07/12/harry-dent-stock-market-crash-likely-within-3-months/

 

I personally would rather gian exposure to India/China via the telecoms markets which are currently cheap.Chinese companies have real issues regarding their accounts-something @Cattle Prodhas been advising in his sphere since day one-things like sing tel have really interesting cross holdings in the area, or play china/india via the commodities markets ie if both are booming oil/gas price will be rocketing

Alos with some of the ETF eg the pharma one,I'd probably take my chances on picking a laggard in the industry eg GSK and backing that isntead.Some of them are very pricey.

ref Uranium,that's a big holding imho but I admire your conviction on that one.

5 hours ago, dnb24 said:

Anecdotal- I had an interesting conversation with some fund managers on the weekend at a one year olds birthday party! one guy ran the long investment part for pension funds in a Brazilian bank- we had a few words about how things were working- and how there might be some value in some parts of the Brazilian telecoms etc. He was pretty adamant the whole Brazilian economy was shot, people are getting their money out and he didn’t see value anywhere in their economy due to the political state. 
It was an interesting take, as these guys were very confident that the economy was coming back as pre pandemic, they were sure the London property market was going to bounce back very quickly, and that finance in the city and the commercial units would also bounce back very well. 
I didn’t want to point out DBs roadmap and how accurate it’s been so far, or point to the direction of change that i can see- as who knows what’s round the corner- but the vibe I got was “more of the same” and not any feeling of things have changed.

It's amazing what you can learn at a one year old's part isn't it?

[Castlevania]

20 hours ago, Cattle Prod said:

I think there is another run up in it, yes. The draws are fairly normal for this time of year, but we are already at a pretty low level. The devil in in the detail of the report that never tends to get reported: implied demand is up, and production dropped 200k a day.

As I said before the production figures in the weekly are inaccurate and the monthly data is better, but good to see it drop back where it should be. Should give investors pause for thought. Are they finally running out of DUCs to cover their area with? Maybe. Next report on that is mid August.

One thing I do know is that companies have been pulling in lots of free cash over the last few months, and it's going to get reported in the coming weeks. Did you see Rio?!

Yes. The big industrial commodity producers have been printing money. With regards to oil, Exxon is likely to be able to pay their dividend from free cash flow for the second successive quarter.

BT getting hammered today on Virgin’s plans to roll out more full fiber broadband

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/virgin-media-o2-plans-entire-120051796.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJGO-h_nMzPZJqu3cSGT1H5O2DmkeLjBj4SiZ-LedOiXWJgJmPUXP5_3bVGvj1FeaXYUnXbMrH7VOB1nQINGdLDBSTBU8_Ir80WEYyBvWHKiGYqbiHdm_Qwb2yRzrQC5pdcL-fYWyoMmjGOP_J9TSQcFhb3ePSaIz1D6VkDi0Iz-

[sancho panza]

5 hours ago, Harley said:

Gapping up this morning, currently by c.4%.  Will that gap get filled?  FY yield 3.63% but presumably does not include any forward increase. 

In 2019 they paid £1.47 in divi's

In 2017 they paid out circa £1.40 with brent around the $55 level.......may this be the first 40% rise of a few.

4 hours ago, Cattle Prod said:

Gold futures gapped up last night too. Finally taking notice of real yields, I hope.

Some of our options postions finally turned green overnight.Been a heavy few months holding calls in that sector.

4 hours ago, dnb24 said:

Yes it was, especially the lifestyles- two had just purchased £2million+ houses- both very pleased to have completed before the SLDT deadline as well.

You’re right though-even though one of the guys said he was on the long side  it felt a lot like they wouldn’t hold through volatility and only change position once the consensus is in. They were concerned though that this may be their 2008 moment- where the young guns come in (like they did in 2008) and replace the old boys (them). 

So,they probably overpaid by more than the stamp duty relief they were able to claim.It sometimes amazes me who looks after people's pensions.Never surprises me when they lose moeny to be fair.

I think in your eraly 40's you need to be derisking your City career.I've seena lot of people apporaching 50 spending like their salary curve will go up as it always has done.The big salary for nothing jobs are much reduced compared to 30 years ago.I've a friend in broking and these days they all rely on non transactional income. He's 50 and often jokes about 'if he has a job next year'..

These people's love for property as an asset class is trulyt astounding.Seen it in my family too.Blind faith,lever into your 50's,ouse prices never go down etc.

 

1 hour ago, Hancock said:

Thats unfortunate i was hoping for a crash so i could pile in.

Wonder if i'm a rabbit in the headlights waiting for a stock market crash just as i was in waiting for a HPC!

 

You have to watch out for the rabbit factor.I've been tehre.Look back at billiton through the 00's crash,BATs too,they were buy and holds at any point from 99.

Oilies no longer cheap,but some telecoms are imho cheap.We have a 2.5% postion in vod at this level,look at what DB's been buying of late.Just add when they cheap and hold.

BHP (it was jsut Broken Hill back then,merger was later but point remains)

What Im doing at the minute is building 13% ladders on most telecoms minimum eg sing tel,the brazilians,(some are that cheap the ladders are much shorters eg Vod,Tel Deutsch/orange imho because they're so low in their charts.

the divis are well funded by cash flow,the detbs will get eroded by infaltion and they 're on their arse.

I bought mroe BP under 300 yeasterady too.don't mean to tell you what to do but you have to be careful sat in cash with inflation running(having this convo with my mum at the mo)

 

dyodd as ever H

nasdaq jan 99 to june 08

[Hancock]

20 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

In 2019 they paid £1.47 in divi's

In 2017 they paid out circa £1.40 with brent around the $55 level.......may this be the first 40% rise of a few.

Some of our options postions finally turned green overnight.Been a heavy few months holding calls in that sector.

So,they probably overpaid by more than the stamp duty relief they were able to claim.It sometimes amazes me who looks after people's pensions.Never surprises me when they lose moeny to be fair.

I think in your eraly 40's you need to be derisking your City career.I've seena lot of people apporaching 50 spending like their salary curve will go up as it always has done.The big salary for nothing jobs are much reduced compared to 30 years ago.I've a friend in broking and these days they all rely on non transactional income. He's 50 and often jokes about 'if he has a job next year'..

These people's love for property as an asset class is trulyt astounding.Seen it in my family too.Blind faith,lever into your 50's,ouse prices never go down etc.

 

You have to watch out for the rabbit factor.I've been tehre.Look back at billiton through the 00's crash,BATs too,they were buy and holds at any point from 99.

Oilies no longer cheap,but some telecoms are imho cheap.We have a 2.5% postion in vod at this level,look at what DB's been buying of late.Just add when they cheap and hold.

BHP (it was jsut Broken Hill back then,merger was later but point remains)

What Im doing at the minute is building 13% ladders on most telecoms minimum eg sing tel,the brazilians,(some are that cheap the ladders are much shorters eg Vod,Tel Deutsch/orange imho because they're so low in their charts.

the divis are well funded by cash flow,the detbs will get eroded by infaltion and they 're on their arse.

I bought mroe BP under 300 yeasterady too.don't mean to tell you what to do but you have to be careful sat in cash with inflation running(having this convo with my mum at the mo)

 

dyodd as ever H

 

 

 

 

Cheers

Ive done a load of work recently and have about 35k in cash in a SIPP worth about 150k, which as i cant touch it for a while, ive viewed it as monopoly money.

Its the £250k that was set aside to buy the house thats the issue, as obviously that was money to give stability so feels more of a gamble to be sticking it into the market.

Its odd the psychology as its all my money that i've earned doing the exact same work, just view it as totally separate funds .... I can live without needing to touch house money, but i've half got my mind set on gambling that a BK happens, so it doubles in a couple of years then i'll just live off the dividends for the rest of my life, which at 46 sounds great!

I was going to drop part of my house deposit/ISA funds of 80k into BP when it was a 275p the other day, but bottled it. 

Got plenty of telcos, would have had more but could buy Brazilian ones. 

If oil, silver, gold and telcos hit the moon i should be ok with this SIPP.

[Hardhat]

14 minutes ago, Hancock said:

Cheers

Ive done a load of work recently and have about 35k in cash in a SIPP worth about 150k, which as i cant touch it for a while, ive viewed it as monopoly money.

Its the £250k that was set aside to buy the house thats the issue, as obviously that was money to give stability so feels more of a gamble to be sticking it into the market.

Its odd the psychology as its all my money that i've earned doing the exact same work, just view it as totally separate funds .... I can live without needing to touch house money, but i've half got my mind set on gambling that a BK happens, so it doubles in a couple of years then i'll just live off the dividends for the rest of my life, which at 46 sounds great!

I was going to drop part of my house deposit/ISA funds of 80k into BP when it was a 275p the other day, but bottled it. 

Got plenty of telcos, would have had more but could buy Brazilian ones. 

If oil, silver, gold and telcos hit the moon i should be ok with this SIPP.

Very jealous of that Siemens entry point!!

[geordie_lurch]

Let's hope we can spend all our inflation proof earnings on what we want and it won't be in Britcoins I'm sure this sort of stuff was considered a 'conspiracy theory' a few months ago when I mentioned where we were heading...

The Bank of England has called on ministers to decide whether a central bank digital currency should be “programmable”, ultimately giving the issuer control over how it is spent by the recipient.

“There could be some socially beneficial outcomes from that, preventing activity which is seen to be socially harmful in some way. But at the same time it could be a restriction on people’s freedoms.”

“You could think of giving your children pocket money, but programming the money so that it couldn’t be used for sweets. There is a whole range of things that money could do, programmable money, which we cannot do with the current technology.”

http://archive.today/qgWai

[sancho panza]

44 minutes ago, Hancock said:

Cheers

Ive done a load of work recently and have about 35k in cash in a SIPP worth about 150k, which as i cant touch it for a while, ive viewed it as monopoly money.

Its the £250k that was set aside to buy the house thats the issue, as obviously that was money to give stability so feels more of a gamble to be sticking it into the market.

Its odd the psychology as its all my money that i've earned doing the exact same work, just view it as totally separate funds .... I can live without needing to touch house money, but i've half got my mind set on gambling that a BK happens, so it doubles in a couple of years then i'll just live off the dividends for the rest of my life, which at 46 sounds great!

I was going to drop part of my house deposit/ISA funds of 80k into BP when it was a 275p the other day, but bottled it. 

Got plenty of telcos, would have had more but could buy Brazilian ones. 

If oil, silver, gold and telcos hit the moon i should be ok with this SIPP.

Thats a nice looking portfolio that is

I'm probabaly the worng poerson to speak to as I'm not very risk averse and you'd need a more educated/senseible mind on the matter.but the way I look at house moeny is this.

£250k in BP/Shell/AnOther inflkation proof stock currently nets you circa £12.5k in divis.If they go back to the old divid.the oilies might be paying 10% at this price,so £25k.Our rent is £10k(and deflating at 4% per annum).And we live in leicester which is a bit of a sh1thole(but I can say that as I grew up here).

Renting isn't great in terms of tenure/LL's but it's business.If it means I can retire and rent in pretty much any country in the world (Mrs P is from SA)when I'd like then I'm happy.Even Mrs P gets teh programme and is on board.When you do the maths at current prices it's pretty terrifying that people are piling at the very moment they should hold back but I been saying that for 20 years.

Have to watch what I say and stress the old cattle prod dyodd-because Im not a finacial advisor.

[Boon]

Fuck the government, cunts

Sure I read it somewhere else but reminds me of the bit in Animal Farm: 'the work was strictly voluntary but any animal that absented from him would have his rations cut in half'

That's where the digital currencies will end up.

The ironic thing is virtually all people in society cannot live with a bit of discomfort be it monetary or living-wise. Thus people scream out for free money, the very thing that is just making all the problems worse.

One of the problems is that the government by and large aren't the sharpest tools in the box; in their simplistic case eventually someone will create an efficient mechanism for kids to swap their purchases for sweets, thereby negating the restriction in the first place. A bit like banning Binance by the banks doesn't really change much.

[Starsend]

36 minutes ago, geordie_lurch said:

Let's hope we can spend all our inflation proof earnings on what we want and it won't be in Britcoins I'm sure this sort of stuff was considered a 'conspiracy theory' a few months ago when I mentioned where we were heading...

The Bank of England has called on ministers to decide whether a central bank digital currency should be “programmable”, ultimately giving the issuer control over how it is spent by the recipient.

“There could be some socially beneficial outcomes from that, preventing activity which is seen to be socially harmful in some way. But at the same time it could be a restriction on people’s freedoms.”

“You could think of giving your children pocket money, but programming the money so that it couldn’t be used for sweets. There is a whole range of things that money could do, programmable money, which we cannot do with the current technology.”

http://archive.today/qgWai

That's scary, really bloody scary. If they force some shit on us like that then it's time to start stringing them up. Sadly, I think given the mindsets of the scum ruling us, I think it's inevitable.

On the plus side though a gigantic barter economy would evolve in no time at all.

They'd have to ban the use of physical gold/silver as these would quickly become an alternative currency.