Credit deflation and the reflation cycle to come (part 2)

[Starsend]

Just now, DurhamBorn said:

Its not that they care about the workers,its they care about systemic collapse and the economy will roll over without massive wage inflation.Remember they will be hedged themselves from the inflation.Its about lifting wages so they can tax them and also making the gap bigger with welfare.The interesting part is housing.I dont think the higher wages will be enough above inflation to stop a big correction.I dont do much on housing,but i think the housing market will top this month then enter a 2 year minimum bear market.

I understand that but still not convinced. They've been happy trying to increase GDP (and hence the tax take) by adding more workers for decades. Old habits die hard.

Getting millions of single mums off of benefits or even reducing them much is going to be extremely difficult, never mind to the point where people working are better off than them. They'll be screeches about the children the moment they try. Entire system is too fucked to fix imo. Collapse the only way.

[Yadda yadda yadda]

2 hours ago, DurhamBorn said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10025373/Britains-blue-collar-workers-earning-MEGA-BUCKS-jobs-crisis-seen-salaries-DOUBLE.html

As we have been saying a lot of the reason is over 50s leaving the workforce (im one) and not being replaced because mostly benefits are too high and so are house prices.

The Guardian meanwhile doesnt seem to think workers should be able to earn more,they should stay on bennies and let other people come over and pluck their turkeys.Maybe the turkey farmer needs to let the Range Rover go and pay more.

Its incredible how the left is now middle class and mostly government workers who only care about their own tiny problems.Workers voted for shortages etc in the short/medium term because the long dis-inflation made it the only way to have a chance in the earnings/housing stakes.Of course The Guardian wont face up to the problem each town hs thousands refusing to work because the bennies are so lucrative.Maybe they are really worried about interest rates goin up on their BTLs

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/24/food-petrol-shortages-brexit-goods-johnson-botched-deal

 

I feel like a broken record talking about this. It is common sense that work should be rewarded a lot more than not working. People want fairness, as much as possible. Communism fails because there is no reward for effort. Fear is the only driver available, you don't also have the carrot. It is something working people just intuitively know. For a huge chunk of the population there has been no point in working because you could get as much or more money by applying for the right benefits. We have a system that is close to communism. It stifles motivation. It must stifle innovation too. Except for creative benefits applications. The people taking the decisions, writing the newspapers and running businesses are happily above all this. They're completely out of touch and haven't a clue what is going on. They don't understand why a warehouseman deserves more money than a shelf stacker.

It is a ridiculous state of affairs and it is now multigenerational. People are brought up to fear work not to aspire to work their way up. I don't know what it is like to be brought up in a household where the parent(s) moan about their benefits being insufficient or under threat. I can't imagine there is much thought of getting a skill. The only way out is for their lifestyles to reduce. Up to now the likes of me and most who will read this have been abused by having money taken from us to fund this. No safety net for those who do the right thing.

DB makes the excellent point that the British workforce, following the return of EU labour, is old. As people retire or just quit there aren't replacements willing to work. The pandemic is a curve ball for the road map as we couldn't of expected such a rapid return of EU workers or an event that would cause people to consider early retirement. Ripping the plaster off might be the best thing. A quick revaluation of wages upwards. Happening in some industries and it needs to spread.

[Hancock]

2 hours ago, Lightscribe said:

I nailed my colours to the mast some time back that the BK will be by the end of the year.

As in you sold and are sitting on cash waiting for the BK?

[The Grey Man]

11 minutes ago, Yadda yadda yadda said:

I feel like a broken record talking about this. It is common sense that work should be rewarded a lot more than not working. People want fairness, as much as possible. Communism fails because there is no reward for effort. Fear is the only driver available, you don't also have the carrot. It is something working people just intuitively know. For a huge chunk of the population there has been no point in working because you could get as much or more money by applying for the right benefits. We have a system that is close to communism. It stifles motivation. It must stifle innovation too. Except for creative benefits applications. The people taking the decisions, writing the newspapers and running businesses are happily above all this. They're completely out of touch and haven't a clue what is going on. They don't understand why a warehouseman deserves more money than a shelf stacker.

It is a ridiculous state of affairs and it is now multigenerational. People are brought up to fear work not to aspire to work their way up. I don't know what it is like to be brought up in a household where the parent(s) moan about their benefits being insufficient or under threat. I can't imagine there is much thought of getting a skill. The only way out is for their lifestyles to reduce. Up to now the likes of me and most who will read this have been abused by having money taken from us to fund this. No safety net for those who do the right thing.

DB makes the excellent point that the British workforce, following the return of EU labour, is old. As people retire or just quit there aren't replacements willing to work. The pandemic is a curve ball for the road map as we couldn't of expected such a rapid return of EU workers or an event that would cause people to consider early retirement. Ripping the plaster off might be the best thing. A quick revaluation of wages upwards. Happening in some industries and it needs to spread.

Bar personal comments, the HGV drivers issue is a classic example as cited here.

The MSM seem shy of talking of the numbers who could do the job here and why they dont.

The comments posted here show reasonable responses.

The petrol issue is clearly an issue to suppress wages via the import cheap labour method.

In any case, living costs have continued to head northwards. Similar comments were made to today in the French and German press about the UK revisiting the late 70's.

I doubt mainland EU workers will be falling over themselves to return.

The MPs (all parties) can fall over themselves about finding the answer, try and import cheap HGV drivers back (and for sure many of the targets will have worked here before) but I think it is a dead end policy.

At some point the cat will be out of the bag of why, I think, they wont return.

A good job by the nudge unit but in this case it is a question of them buying time. People are sussing the House for the bag of blags it is.

[Hancock]

2 hours ago, DurhamBorn said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10025373/Britains-blue-collar-workers-earning-MEGA-BUCKS-jobs-crisis-seen-salaries-DOUBLE.html

As we have been saying a lot of the reason is over 50s leaving the workforce (im one) and not being replaced because mostly benefits are too high and so are house prices.

The Guardian meanwhile doesnt seem to think workers should be able to earn more,they should stay on bennies and let other people come over and pluck their turkeys.Maybe the turkey farmer needs to let the Range Rover go and pay more.

Its incredible how the left is now middle class and mostly government workers who only care about their own tiny problems.Workers voted for shortages etc in the short/medium term because the long dis-inflation made it the only way to have a chance in the earnings/housing stakes.Of course The Guardian wont face up to the problem each town hs thousands refusing to work because the bennies are so lucrative.Maybe they are really worried about interest rates goin up on their BTLs

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/24/food-petrol-shortages-brexit-goods-johnson-botched-deal

 

It'll be a few workers earning decent money by contracting or such like, the journalists are habitual liars.

But the middle class southerners who predominantly run the country have always been clueless as to what goes on in the real world, they lived cosseted childhoods, and think spending 3 years at university is slumming it.

 

[Hancock]

21 minutes ago, The Grey Man said:

The MSM seem shy of talking of the numbers who could do the job here and why they dont.

There must be many 10s of thousands of people with an HGV licence who are sat at at home or doing some other job. Sure the DVLA could tell us how many people have a licence in a matter of seconds.

Its one of those tickets plenty of people have got over the years as a simple option to change jobs and get decent money.

FFS 5 million EE's were granted permission to stay in the country recently, so quite how there is suddenly a major shortage i don't know.

[The Grey Man]

4 minutes ago, Hancock said:

There must be many 10s of thousands of people with an HGV licence who are sat at at home or doing some other job. Sure the DVLA could tell us how many people have a licence in a matter of seconds.

Its one of those tickets plenty of people have got over the years as a simple option to change jobs and get decent money.

FFS 5 million EE's were granted permission to stay in the country recently, so quite how there is suddenly a major shortage i don't know.

The M60 seems as full as ever with trucks.

As you say H the stats should be easy to pull.

In the days of honest journalism, some young hack could make their name off this with a bit of digging...instead of recycling government statements or Reuters.🤬

[Hancock]

4 minutes ago, The Grey Man said:

The M60 seems as full as ever with trucks.

As you say H the stats should be easy to pull.

In the days of honest journalism, some young hack could make their name off this with a bit of digging...instead of recycling government statements or Reuters.🤬

Just found this article from 2016 which confirms my thoughts.

http://transportoperator.co.uk/2016/01/29/3568/

The much-reported shortage of UK truck drivers may be attributed more to a paucity of attractive employment opportunities in the industry than a dearth of large goods vehicle (LGV) licence holders, a transport consultant has claimed.

Kirsten Tisdale is principal of logistics consultancy Aricia Ltd. Prior to establishing the consultancy in 2001, she held senior positions as a consultant or manager with Marks & Spencer Logistics Group, TNT, NFC and others.

Concerned at reports of a demographic ‘ticking timebomb’ in the driving workforce from trade associations, she made freedom of information requests of the Driver & Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) for the numbers of all Category C and C + E licence holders with and without the Driver CPC qualification, and asked that these be provided in five-year age bands.

She compared these numbers with those provided by the Office for National Statistics’ (ONS) Labour Force Survey, which recorded the number of people who said they were employed as LGV drivers in the period June-September 2015.

The results are startling. There are 80,000 individuals with a Category C or C + E LGV licence and a current Driver CPC in the crucial 25-44 age group (the most attractive to employers for insurance and medical reasons) who are not currently working as truck drivers.

What’s more, there are 90,000 individuals in the 25-34 age band holding C or C + E licences, but without a current Driver CPC. All they would require would be a week in a classroom without any test or examination, and they too could get behind the wheel of a truck.

Ms Tisdale cautions that this figure includes an unknown number of serving armed forces personnel who are obviously not currently available to employers. But the figures nonetheless put the 45,000-60,000 shortage estimated by the trade associations into sharp context.

Could it in fact be the case that an oversupply of drivers has led to poor wages and conditions of employment, in turn making it deeply unattractive as an employment prospect?

Transport Operator has questioned ten former truck drivers about the reasons why they left the industry. They all cited stress as a major factor – highlighting unrealistic scheduling and aggressive micromanagement by telematics, overzealous enforcement, and the aggressive or distracted behavior of other road users as key irritants.

Other significant factors cited by a majority of respondents included low wages and/or poor pension provision, and long working hours.

A variety of other careers had since been chosen, ranging from entering the police service to becoming a lab assistant, but most former drivers we questioned are now engaged in plant operation and/or maintenance, or building trades.

There was, however, one thing they all agreed upon – while they enjoyed driving trucks, none of them had any intention of ever doing it for a living again.

If those who are already qualified to drive trucks no longer feel inclined to do so, urgent questions emerge about how the industry expects to attract new trainees. A typical ‘starter’ job in truck driving will be 7.5-tonne multidrop for between 50p to £1 an hour over the national minimum wage.

“This is about re-inspiring people who took their licences and couldn’t hack the job for whatever reason,” argued Kirsten Tisdale. “If it were just one or two people, then you could put it down to their own unrealistic expectations. But it looks like there’s tens, even hundreds, of thousands.

“Our industry isn’t just less attractive to younger people, it’s not that attractive to any age group. So how do we get some of those qualified people to come and drive a truck?”

She highlights the “legislative burden” inflicted upon drivers as one factor forcing them out of the industry, but also urges employers to take a long, hard look at themselves.

“There are things that our industry can do for itself. Looking after drivers – giving them self-respect by paying them an attractive rate for sensible hours, and providing some decent facilities at DCs and out on the road. We need to ask ourselves how many older drivers would come into the industry today, particularly as agency drivers?

“Increased wages and training need to be built into increased operating costs and charges for transport need to go up.”

Responding to the figures, Alan White, managing director of Fresh Logistics Services, asked: “What are we going to do about the driver shortage? Well to start, change your pay and conditions, invest in your workforce and understand your business cost base – rather than being a fiver cheaper than Joe Bloggs Haulage.”

According to the Labour Party’s Labour Research Department, the median increase for basic rates of pay in the transport and communication sector last year was two per cent, down from 2.7 per cent the previous year. The respected independent journal Commercial Vehicle Engineer has forecast a driver pay increase of 2.5 per cent for the coming year.

In contrast, the ONS reports average pay increases across the whole UK workforce of 2.7 per cent for 2014-15, with pay increases of 2.9 per cent in the service sector, 3.6 per cent in finance and banking and (most significantly for the transport industry) 4.0 per cent in construction.

[working woman]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Hope your well. Been there. 

I am ok thank you. I have been there already too with both my parents.  It is now my husband's turn.

[Hancock]

Another article shows its the fault of fucken wimmin for not wanting to do what must fall into the category of hard work.

No doubt for this reason blacks and Muslims won't be high up the percentage ratio for being truckers.
https://backlinelogistics.co.uk/the-hgv-driver-shortage-does-it-actually-exist/

[The Grey Man]

3 minutes ago, Hancock said:

Just found this article from 2016 which confirms my thoughts.

http://transportoperator.co.uk/2016/01/29/3568/

The much-reported shortage of UK truck drivers may be attributed more to a paucity of attractive employment opportunities in the industry than a dearth of large goods vehicle (LGV) licence holders, a transport consultant has claimed.

Kirsten Tisdale is principal of logistics consultancy Aricia Ltd. Prior to establishing the consultancy in 2001, she held senior positions as a consultant or manager with Marks & Spencer Logistics Group, TNT, NFC and others.

Concerned at reports of a demographic ‘ticking timebomb’ in the driving workforce from trade associations, she made freedom of information requests of the Driver & Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) for the numbers of all Category C and C + E licence holders with and without the Driver CPC qualification, and asked that these be provided in five-year age bands.

She compared these numbers with those provided by the Office for National Statistics’ (ONS) Labour Force Survey, which recorded the number of people who said they were employed as LGV drivers in the period June-September 2015.

The results are startling. There are 80,000 individuals with a Category C or C + E LGV licence and a current Driver CPC in the crucial 25-44 age group (the most attractive to employers for insurance and medical reasons) who are not currently working as truck drivers.

What’s more, there are 90,000 individuals in the 25-34 age band holding C or C + E licences, but without a current Driver CPC. All they would require would be a week in a classroom without any test or examination, and they too could get behind the wheel of a truck.

Ms Tisdale cautions that this figure includes an unknown number of serving armed forces personnel who are obviously not currently available to employers. But the figures nonetheless put the 45,000-60,000 shortage estimated by the trade associations into sharp context.

Could it in fact be the case that an oversupply of drivers has led to poor wages and conditions of employment, in turn making it deeply unattractive as an employment prospect?

Transport Operator has questioned ten former truck drivers about the reasons why they left the industry. They all cited stress as a major factor – highlighting unrealistic scheduling and aggressive micromanagement by telematics, overzealous enforcement, and the aggressive or distracted behavior of other road users as key irritants.

Other significant factors cited by a majority of respondents included low wages and/or poor pension provision, and long working hours.

A variety of other careers had since been chosen, ranging from entering the police service to becoming a lab assistant, but most former drivers we questioned are now engaged in plant operation and/or maintenance, or building trades.

There was, however, one thing they all agreed upon – while they enjoyed driving trucks, none of them had any intention of ever doing it for a living again.

If those who are already qualified to drive trucks no longer feel inclined to do so, urgent questions emerge about how the industry expects to attract new trainees. A typical ‘starter’ job in truck driving will be 7.5-tonne multidrop for between 50p to £1 an hour over the national minimum wage.

“This is about re-inspiring people who took their licences and couldn’t hack the job for whatever reason,” argued Kirsten Tisdale. “If it were just one or two people, then you could put it down to their own unrealistic expectations. But it looks like there’s tens, even hundreds, of thousands.

“Our industry isn’t just less attractive to younger people, it’s not that attractive to any age group. So how do we get some of those qualified people to come and drive a truck?”

She highlights the “legislative burden” inflicted upon drivers as one factor forcing them out of the industry, but also urges employers to take a long, hard look at themselves.

“There are things that our industry can do for itself. Looking after drivers – giving them self-respect by paying them an attractive rate for sensible hours, and providing some decent facilities at DCs and out on the road. We need to ask ourselves how many older drivers would come into the industry today, particularly as agency drivers?

“Increased wages and training need to be built into increased operating costs and charges for transport need to go up.”

Responding to the figures, Alan White, managing director of Fresh Logistics Services, asked: “What are we going to do about the driver shortage? Well to start, change your pay and conditions, invest in your workforce and understand your business cost base – rather than being a fiver cheaper than Joe Bloggs Haulage.”

According to the Labour Party’s Labour Research Department, the median increase for basic rates of pay in the transport and communication sector last year was two per cent, down from 2.7 per cent the previous year. The respected independent journal Commercial Vehicle Engineer has forecast a driver pay increase of 2.5 per cent for the coming year.

In contrast, the ONS reports average pay increases across the whole UK workforce of 2.7 per cent for 2014-15, with pay increases of 2.9 per cent in the service sector, 3.6 per cent in finance and banking and (most significantly for the transport industry) 4.0 per cent in construction.

Well the site is at the front of the news again in my view.

You amd several others have been digging on this.

It is a sham. The MSM whipping it up.

Bring back "cheaper labour".

The good thing about this is, is that it a new, clean story. Untarnished yet.

I will be using it next week, carefully crafting it so I avoid Brexit issues. The nudge group will try and do the exact opposite as the story grows.

Then its time to stir again and point out the government now asking for EU workers.

Forget personal issues here. It will be about fighting fire with fire and using their tactics against them.

I got some of my first round in today.

[Mapper]

1 hour ago, Hancock said:

Another article shows its the fault of fucken wimmin for not wanting to do what must fall into the category of hard work.

No doubt for this reason blacks and Muslims won't be high up the percentage ratio for being truckers.
https://backlinelogistics.co.uk/the-hgv-driver-shortage-does-it-actually-exist/

Lack of opportunities to murder prostitutes.

[wherebee]

Well, thought I'd check on my year to date performance, as we're almost at the end of Q3.  realised profits (trading) 41k.  Unrealised 27k.  Dividends 5k (expecting 10k by end of year, now the oilies are set).  All on 150k in.

That's a very good result and way ahead of inflation.  Now, as I said above, it's a case of sitting and waiting with the oilies, miners, and ARB.L as the rollercoaster.  A fair chunk now in cash as well, in case.

Thanks @DurhamBorn.  Still owe you that pint - I'll buy you a rat in the gulag.

[Lightscribe]

5 hours ago, Hancock said:

As in you sold and are sitting on cash waiting for the BK?

Pension 100% cash. ISA, 50%.

[wherebee]

25 minutes ago, Lightscribe said:

Pension 100% cash. ISA, 50%.

my super (aussie pension) is also in 100% cash.  they keep sending me messages saying it's risky.

No, no it's not when the buckets you offer for investment are such beauties as 'foreign' and 'conservative' without any idea what is in them!

[MrXxxx]

8 hours ago, Transistor Man said:

They are pleading guilty to the bribery case, they must have a decent deal. 

Yes, but I haven't seen an announcement on this, do you have a source?

[Transistor Man]

Just now, MrXxxx said:

Yes, but I haven't seen an announcement on this, do you have a source?

No, Not really, just bits of news yesterday.

[MrXxxx]

On 23/09/2021 at 07:33, MrXxxx said:

Wait until the government start issuing Essential Labour Certificates for foreign workers (they won't use passports as thats a dirty word).....and it won't be their fault as `you` the care assistant/builder/teacher/nurse etc `chose` not to be vaccinated....The current government on has two management approaches

1. To `throw` money at the problem, and

2. To backtrack on any election promises/statements due to "Covid was an exceptional circumstance and so unforeseen"...

...it begs the question, management is all about managing unforeseen circumstances so what do they perceive their job to be then?!

Looks as though I have amazing foresight I.e lorry drivers, or the fact that the current government is so predictable...it made me laugh when they said "We are concerned about UK drivers leaving the profession as a result of being undercut by cheap foreign labour, so this will only be temporary"....so lets think, what is their definition of temporary?...oh yes, Covid measures...initially 6 weeks, now 76 weeks and counting!

As always, rather than addressing the issue (employers not paying sufficient to maintain the labour force for the job at hand) they `paper over the cracks` and backtrack on promises (Brexit) made and democratically voted for....looks as those who voted Brexit have got all of the disadvantages and the advantages are slowly being squandered for political expediency.

[Gin]

43 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

Looks as though I have amazing foresight I.e lorry drivers, or the fact that the current government is so predictable...it made me laugh when they said "We are concerned about UK drivers leaving the profession as a result of being undercut by cheap foreign labour, so this will only be temporary"....so lets think, what is their definition of temporary?...oh yes, Covid measures...initially 6 weeks, now 76 weeks and counting!

 

The government is planning a temporary scheme to make it easier for foreign lorry drivers to work in the UK.

Final details are expected this weekend, but any changes to immigration rules would be temporary, and there would be a cap on the number of workers allowed to enter the country.

Newspaper reports suggest up to 5,000 temporary visas could be issued.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news

[Starsend]

3 minutes ago, Gin said:

The government is planning a temporary scheme to make it easier for foreign lorry drivers to work in the UK.

Final details are expected this weekend, but any changes to immigration rules would be temporary, and there would be a cap on the number of workers allowed to enter the country.

Newspaper reports suggest up to 5,000 temporary visas could be issued.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news

Lol, exactly as I said, cheap foreigners are their answer to everything. Labour were just as bad. Until people stop voting for any of these shit parties I have no sympathy.

[jamtomorrow]

This HGV crisis just seems like part and parcel of "the turn", as we've come to know and love it, in the sense that the foundations under low prices for quite a few goods and services have been quietly eroding, and we're now seeing the final collapse.

But it would be a mistake to assume it's as simple as "we'll just be paying more for our transport relative to other goods and services, all else stays the same". The structure of today's economy is dependent on cheap logistics, so whole swathes of the rest of the economy are going to have to change (or disappear? Mike Ashley might be f***ed).

Also structural change within transport and logistics. If labour suddenly takes a bigger slice of the pie for road haulage, that increases the incentive to replace labour with capital. Things like: even bigger vehicles; automation (although still bit early for full driverless); the return of local/regional railfreight terminals.

[dnb24]

1 hour ago, Starsend said:

Lol, exactly as I said, cheap foreigners are their answer to everything. Labour were just as bad. Until people stop voting for any of these shit parties I have no sympathy.

Probably a sensible policy- bring in a small amount of temp truckers- train your own at the same time- then get rid because UK gov can’t import more disinflation into the system at this point- it just won’t work- as DB keeps saying- “they” & “we” need inflation else it’s curtains. 
Anecdotal - brother in law who works in London- mid level job- moved to East Midlands during covid-just told me he is now planning on re-training as a truck driver. Can get a licence within a month - paid for by truck company who’ll then give him a job at £35k per annum. 
 

[working woman]

Lorry Drivers

My next door neighbours (30ish) both gave up their jobs about 6 months ago to set up a business. They both worked for transport companies, recruiting lorry drivers and have set up an agency recruiting lorry drivers for the supermarkets. They have a lot of experience in this and are doing really well.

They are paying the drivers £15/hr which for a 40hr week is over 30K.  Sounds good, but a mortgage at x 6 salary is 180K, which gets you a grotty 2 bed flat where I live, not enough for a man to be the "bread winner" and raise a family in a 3 bed-semi.  Semi's start at 300K here. 

Wages need to rise or property needs to come down, maybe both. 

Rather than importing labour from abroad - why not encourage retired Ex HGV drivers back onto the road with incentives such as Tax Free Pay on a part or full 3-6 months contract, hours to suit them, until  enough new drivers are trained up. 

Why would people want to move to the UK, in the middle of a pandemic, where you have to jump through hoops to get on a plane and go home to visit family. 

It will be interesting to see what happens.

[Starsend]

21 minutes ago, dnb24 said:

Probably a sensible policy- bring in a small amount of temp truckers- train your own at the same time- then get rid because UK gov can’t import more disinflation into the system at this point- it just won’t work- as DB keeps saying- “they” & “we” need inflation else it’s curtains. 
Anecdotal - brother in law who works in London- mid level job- moved to East Midlands during covid-just told me he is now planning on re-training as a truck driver. Can get a licence within a month - paid for by truck company who’ll then give him a job at £35k per annum. 
 

If your brother can get a licence in s month then importing more cheap labour isn't the correct answer. It will become another permanent flow of cheap labour resulting in more wage supression. At some point there have to be shortages and no easy opt out. Companies have to be forced to train and raise wages. Twats running our country have crumbled at the first hurdle. The long term looks like more of the same unless they grow some balls.

[Phil]

6 minutes ago, working woman said:

Lorry Drivers

My next door neighbours (30ish) both gave up their jobs about 6 months ago to set up a business. They both worked for transport companies, recruiting lorry drivers and have set up an agency recruiting lorry drivers for the supermarkets. They have a lot of experience in this and are doing really well.

They are paying the drivers £15/hr which for a 40hr week is over 30K.  Sounds good, but a mortgage at x 6 salary is 180K, which gets you a grotty 2 bed flat where I live, not enough for a man to be the "bread winner" and raise a family in a 3 bed-semi.  Semi's start at 300K here. 

Wages need to rise or property needs to come down, maybe both. 

Rather than importing labour from abroad - why not encourage retired Ex HGV drivers back onto the road with incentives such as Tax Free Pay on a part or full 3-6 months contract, hours to suit them, until  enough new drivers are trained up. 

Why would people want to move to the UK, in the middle of a pandemic, where you have to jump through hoops to get on a plane and go home to visit family. 

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Last few yrs, from what I’m seeing have been just a cheap panto,  politico wise. These idiots are complicit in taking this dump back into Europe. They know how to fix it, but that would mean sorting the tax out for drivers. Can’t do it for 1 group as lots will want the same, so instead, they are prepared to import cheap labour. I can’t see that many even wanting to return here to work. Bennies yes. Work no.