Property crash, just maybe it really is different this time

[Boon]

https://metro.co.uk/2023/06/03/what-i-own-anna-who-has-lived-on-a-london-houseboat-for-10-years-18886154/?ito=facebook|social|metroukfacebook&fbclid=IwAR2o5vFI_Z5cm1bjlZFwFNpdXT4O85TFLuLEj9Z5AABpjcAJZrn9OzT5Wls

The listing is here:

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/133841486#/?channel=RES_BUY

Check out the mooring fees... and then how much she claims to be paying per month. It's obvious she has no mortgage but with those kind of costs, it's not far off renting a regular flat in that postcode or if going a bit further out, a regular house.
Looking at one of the bedrooms, they have kids, so that can't be great for them, also they have a lodger.

These kind of articles, much like the Bethnal Green flat earlier seem to me to be a desperate attempt to get more publicity for their listings so they can sell to a greater fool rather than provide any real information. 

Some of these houseboats seem way overpriced to me, although I think the number of idiots that FOMOd into one must be quite small. 

[AlfredTheLittle]

More property coming up in my search area, it's not new listings but a few initially more expensive properties are being reduced so they're newly falling under my max search price, which is good news. Can now get stuff under £300k which has been selling for £350k the last couple of years (though before that it was selling for £250k)

Edited June 10, 2023 by AlfredTheLittle

[spunko]

'It's me pension innit'

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/122674268#/?channel=RES_BUY

Price History
10 Jun 2023	£780,000	->	£750,000
24 Feb 2023	Unavailable	->	£780,000
20 Feb 2023	£780,000	->	Unavailable
10 Feb 2023	Unavailable	->	£780,000
6 Feb 2023	Unavailable	->	Unavailable
1 Dec 2022	£800,000	->	Unavailable
4 Aug 2022	Unavailable	->	£800,000
30 Jul 2022	£800,000	->	Unavailable
1 Jun 2022	Unavailable	->	£800,000
5 May 2022	£800,000	->	Unavailable
21 Apr 2022	First seen	->	£800,000

[Plan-b]

22 minutes ago, spunko said:

'It's me pension innit'

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/122674268#/?channel=RES_BUY

Price History
10 Jun 2023	£780,000	->	£750,000
24 Feb 2023	Unavailable	->	£780,000
20 Feb 2023	£780,000	->	Unavailable
10 Feb 2023	Unavailable	->	£780,000
6 Feb 2023	Unavailable	->	Unavailable
1 Dec 2022	£800,000	->	Unavailable
4 Aug 2022	Unavailable	->	£800,000
30 Jul 2022	£800,000	->	Unavailable
1 Jun 2022	Unavailable	->	£800,000
5 May 2022	£800,000	->	Unavailable
21 Apr 2022	First seen	->	£800,000

It must be scary to see your pension evaporate in less than 2 months..

Edited June 10, 2023 by Plan-b

[Plan-b]

It really is different this time..

Edited June 10, 2023 by Plan-b

[Plan-b]

For balance against southern million pound homes, something much cheaper oop north. It seems it's not just high end property thats entering fire-sale territory..

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Plan-b

[tank]

4 hours ago, spunko said:

'It's me pension innit'

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/122674268#/?channel=RES_BUY

Price History
10 Jun 2023	£780,000	->	£750,000
24 Feb 2023	Unavailable	->	£780,000
20 Feb 2023	£780,000	->	Unavailable
10 Feb 2023	Unavailable	->	£780,000
6 Feb 2023	Unavailable	->	Unavailable
1 Dec 2022	£800,000	->	Unavailable
4 Aug 2022	Unavailable	->	£800,000
30 Jul 2022	£800,000	->	Unavailable
1 Jun 2022	Unavailable	->	£800,000
5 May 2022	£800,000	->	Unavailable
21 Apr 2022	First seen	->	£800,000

Purchased by the vendors for £150,000 in 1995.

Even if they sell it for £750,000 and have done some renovations, they'll come out well in front.

I can see why a downsizing or divorcing boomer couple would view it as a pension of sorts. 

[Democorruptcy]

7 hours ago, tank said:

Purchased by the vendors for £150,000 in 1995.

Even if they sell it for £750,000 and have done some renovations, they'll come out well in front.

I can see why a downsizing or divorcing boomer couple would view it as a pension of sorts. 

Just because there's a sold price on RM, doesn't mean it was bought at that price by the vendor now. Properties could have gone to auction or been repos, plus in my experience RM are missing lots of sold prices these days compared to  Houseprices.io

[Plan-b]

47 minutes ago, Democorruptcy said:

RM are missing lots of sold prices these days

Could that be intentional?

As the outlook for property becomes evermore bearish so does their business model, Purple bricks recently sold for £1 and in CRE Canary Wharf is wobbling.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/17/online-estate-agent-purplebricks-sold-charles-dunstone-strike

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/06/11/canary-wharf-london-margaret-thatcher-legacy/

[Plan-b]

[BurntBread]

14 hours ago, spunko said:

'It's me pension innit'

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/122674268#/?channel=RES_BUY

Price History
10 Jun 2023	£780,000	->	£750,000
24 Feb 2023	Unavailable	->	£780,000
20 Feb 2023	£780,000	->	Unavailable
10 Feb 2023	Unavailable	->	£780,000
6 Feb 2023	Unavailable	->	Unavailable
1 Dec 2022	£800,000	->	Unavailable
4 Aug 2022	Unavailable	->	£800,000
30 Jul 2022	£800,000	->	Unavailable
1 Jun 2022	Unavailable	->	£800,000
5 May 2022	£800,000	->	Unavailable
21 Apr 2022	First seen	->	£800,000

Well ... apart from the extra zero, that does look like my work pension.

[Boon]

2 hours ago, Democorruptcy said:

Just because there's a sold price on RM, doesn't mean it was bought at that price by the vendor now. Properties could have gone to auction or been repos, plus in my experience RM are missing lots of sold prices these days compared to  Houseprices.io

There definitely must be an option for the agent to suppress the previous sales prices. 
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if agents lobbied to get rid of this bit. 
Demonstrably falling prices puts people off and knowing if other places are on/SSTC for less makes them more likely to negotiate offers and less likely to FOMO.

I find it funny that on other forums virtually nobody promotes the tools like PropertyLog even though that gives a lot of useful information, for what likely is one of the biggest transactions of life. 

10 hours ago, tank said:

Purchased by the vendors for £150,000 in 1995.

Even if they sell it for £750,000 and have done some renovations, they'll come out well in front.

I can see why a downsizing or divorcing boomer couple would view it as a pension of sorts. 

Difference is people of that vintage are quite likely to have substantial pensions, and in a lot of cases of the defined benefit type. I don't think they would view it as their entire pension, more part of the pot.

They aren't likely to care too much about losing £100k or so off it, in many cases they might not even view the 'lost' £100k as theirs (because it never existed), because they have plenty of other assets.

I think it's entirely reversed for people in their 30s nowadays. No pensions, some may even have cashed in their pension to buy a property. They would have bought at much higher prices, so losing £100k off the asking price is akin to losing a huge chunk of their equity. 

They are more likely to treat this lost £100k as their money, even though it wasn't, and hold out obstinately for it. They view cutting the price by another £25k as giving the buyer £25k even though it isn't.

So I don't think the attitude of thinking of it as pension is entirely wrong. It just depends how much of it is your pension. 

[With a crooked smile]

5 hours ago, Democorruptcy said:

Just because there's a sold price on RM, doesn't mean it was bought at that price by the vendor now. Properties could have gone to auction or been repos, plus in my experience RM are missing lots of sold prices these days compared to  Houseprices.io

Interestingly Houseprices.io doesn't have the sold data from when I purchased my place.

I think this is because the property started as residential changed to commercial and then got converted (via planning permission) back to residential when I moved in. I'm guessing they don't list commercial property prices.

[With a crooked smile]

3 hours ago, Boon said:

They aren't likely to care too much about losing £100k or so off it, in many cases they might not even view the 'lost' £100k as theirs (because it never existed), because they have plenty of other assets.

People seen to view these large reductions as evidence of big falls. The reality is you have to compare the asking price with what something locally has actually sold for.

Most of these big reductions are just vendors completely taking the piss and probably never stood a chance of exchanging at the stated price. The surveyors valuation report to the bank would blow the mortgage option out anyway.

[leonardratso]

2 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

People seen to view these large reductions as evidence of big falls. The reality is you have to compare the asking price with what something locally has actually sold for.

Most of these big reductions are just vendors completely taking the piss and probably never stood a chance of exchanging at the stated price. The surveyors valuation report to the bank would blow the mortgage option out anyway.

yes, ive seen this happen, even 30 odd years ago, bank wouldnt loan amount required cos surveyor said no go.
Vendor dropped to match surveyor valuation any ways.

[Option5]

4 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

Most of these big reductions are just vendors completely taking the piss and probably never stood a chance of exchanging at the stated price. The surveyors valuation report to the bank would blow the mortgage option out anyway.

I would imagine that a lot of the asking prices are decided by estate agents trying to get the business.

[With a crooked smile]

11 minutes ago, Option5 said:

I would imagine that a lot of the asking prices are decided by estate agents trying to get the business.

Yeah it's a funny one, we were advised by an estate agent to go on at 600k we said no way and put on for 650k, sold 2 weeks later for 640k. Still occasionally wonder if I should have tried my arm on 675k.

[spunko]

5 hours ago, Plan-b said:

Mental innit. Why don't they ever realise that if they're on rightmove with one agent they'll be on with another agent, and that's where 90% of enquiries come from now. 

There's an overpriced smallholding for sale near me, they've changed agents 3 times now. But the price is the same. How to be this delusional, it must take some training. 

[spunko]

33 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

Yeah it's a funny one, we were advised by an estate agent to go on at 600k we said no way and put on for 650k, sold 2 weeks later for 640k. Still occasionally wonder if I should have tried my arm on 675k.

How many quotes did you get? 

[With a crooked smile]

3 minutes ago, spunko said:

How many quotes did you get? 

3 and the guy who I ignored was probably the one that historically I would have trusted the most. V well known locally.

I think the issue was there weren't many direct comparables locally.

Edited June 11, 2023 by With a crooked smile

[Democorruptcy]

6 hours ago, Boon said:

There definitely must be an option for the agent to suppress the previous sales prices. 
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if agents lobbied to get rid of this bit. 
Demonstrably falling prices puts people off and knowing if other places are on/SSTC for less makes them more likely to negotiate offers and less likely to FOMO.

I find it funny that on other forums virtually nobody promotes the tools like PropertyLog even though that gives a lot of useful information, for what likely is one of the biggest transactions of life.

I use Firefox instead of Chrome, so have the Patma extension for price changes.

[sancho panza]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12179747/Mortgage-lenders-axe-10-year-fixed-rate-deals-denying-homeowners-chance-lock-deals.html?ico=mol_desktop_money

Mortgage lenders axe 10-year fixed-rate deals denying homeowners the chance to lock in long-term as rising rates wreak havoc in market

Mortgage providers have pulled a swathe of ten-year fixed-rate deals as rising interest rates and high inflation wreak havoc on the housing market.

Lenders have rushed to raise the cost of ten-year mortgages or withdraw them altogether, with more than 10 per cent disappearing from the market since mid-May, according to Moneyfactscompare.

Homeowners and buyers are desperate to lock in deals as rates keep increasing.

[sancho panza]

 

https://www.mortgagestrategy.co.uk/news/average-house-price-continues-to-fall-esurv/

Average house price continues to fall – e.surv

By David Burrows 9^th June 2023 9:53 am

The average house price fell by £814, or -0.2%, in May 2023, according to the latest price index from e:surv.

It is the fifth month in succession in which the average price paid for a home has fallen, making a total reduction in 2023 of £6,000.

e.surve director Richard Sexton comments: “The trend is more material at the moment than the decrease itself as prices in 2022 on average gained £23,250 – almost 50% of the total average gain since 2020 of £58,000.

[HousePriceMania]

21 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

 

https://www.mortgagestrategy.co.uk/news/average-house-price-continues-to-fall-esurv/

Average house price continues to fall – e.surv

By David Burrows 9^th June 2023 9:53 am

The average house price fell by £814, or -0.2%, in May 2023, according to the latest price index from e:surv.

It is the fifth month in succession in which the average price paid for a home has fallen, making a total reduction in 2023 of £6,000.

e.surve director Richard Sexton comments: “The trend is more material at the moment than the decrease itself as prices in 2022 on average gained £23,250 – almost 50% of the total average gain since 2020 of £58,000.

Just looked at the UKPL weekly run.

Current asking prices jumped another £2K last week, I thought this surge would fizzle out by now but it seems strong.

Meanwhile number of listings also continues to surge.

 

 

 

 

[onlyme]

3 minutes ago, HousePriceMania said:

Just looked at the UKPL weekly run.

Current asking prices jumped another £2K last week, I thought this surge would fizzle out by now but it seems strong.

Meanwhile number of listings also continues to surge.

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely no fundamental change in trajectory of listings since April 22. The little wiggle is no sort of maket rebound or breather, just people taking properties over Xmas because they don't want viewings.