What's in your portfolio - and why?

[Mandalorian]

Lots of discussion in the credit deflation thread.

Begs the question, what do people ACTUALLY hold.  And why?

Just talking shares here.  Not gold or cash or bonds or stuff like that.

 

Here's mine.

As you can see I talk my book.  Mostly ETFs trackers and investment trusts.

 

A lot of the investment trusts are closet trackers but I hold them for lower risk due to diversification. 

E.g ETFs tend to be Irish and if the Irish ever decide to seize the ETF holding companies then you're stuffed - hence holding London domiciled ITs that do the same job.  Doesn't stop Sunak doing the same though.

So yes.  I deliberately looked for IT's that track the index as much as I could find.  I don't want stock pickers.  I want more or less the market return but without too much foreign (Irish) ETF exposure.

 

I aim for 80% boring and 20% for my own amusement.  Any imbalance is due to legacy holdings that I (for whatever reason) can't bring myself to sell.

 

I used to be a dividend investor - but eventually the penny dropped and I realised what dividends actually are.

Some of these pay dividends.  City of London and Murray being two.

I don't much care for dividends but if a company must throw my own capital back at me then I just reinvest it into whatever I buy next.

 

Only one is in the red.  RIT Capital Partners.  About 13% down.

[Mandalorian]

Last updated these in November.

Portfolio as a whole split by geography and economic sector.

Far FAR too much UK in there though.

 

 

Edited April 7 by Mandalorian

[Jesus Wept]

Excellent idea for a thread @Mandalorian

1. You obviously “know your onions” as they say ! 

2. How long have you been investing? 

How long have you been drip feeding / cost averaging into the markets? 

You seem to hold a lot of trackers and shares.

3. Does  that not become costly drip feeding / cost averaging into them every month ?
 

I have a lot to learn still. I have very little technical knowledge.  My strength has always been timing and market behaviour / psychology. Thats why I will also be using global trackers and sector etfs / ITs in the main. 

Edited April 7 by Jesus Wept

[Mandalorian]

7 minutes ago, Jesus Wept said:

Excellent idea for a thread @Mandalorian

1. You obviously “know your onions” as they say ! 

2. How long have you been investing? 

How long have you been drip feeding / cost averaging into the markets? 

You seem to hold a lot of trackers and shares.

3. Does  that not become costly drip feeding / cost averaging into them every month. 
 

I have a lot to learn still. I have very little technical knowledge.  My strength has always been timing and market behaviour / psychology. Thats why I will also be using global trackers in the main. 

Started in 2010 with....... UK based high yield dividend paying companies. 

I had Aviva, Vodafone, United Utilities, SSE, Rio Tinto.  All the usual suspects.  15 or 20 companies or so.  I was doing well.  5% a year of 'free money' plus a few % on the capital too.  So I thought.  Then I did some research and found out the free money isn't free and the capital growth in FTSE companies is pedestrian at best.

Then I saw what the rest of the world's stock markets did in the time frame I held my UK dividends companies and kicked myself.

Flogged them all, parked the money in City of London IT and later put the money into mostly global ETFs and ITs.  I've done a LOT better since getting the worldwide exposure.

 

As for expensive.  Depends how much you're putting away each month. 

Share deals cost a fiver these days.  Not expensive.  (Or free if you use Vanguard's own platform for ETFs and daily bulk dealing.)  And ETFs (being foreign - Irish) don't attract stamp duty.

If you're putting £50 a month away, then yes its expensive (except Vanguard's own platform).  If you are putting a lot more in then comparatively cheaper.

[Jesus Wept]

@Mandalorian very interesting and informative - cheers 🍻. 

So you started investing in a market low - pretty much right after the Great financial crash (markets down -50%) and have enjoyed a 14 year bull run with a few months of Covid -25% or so in the crash - that bounced back up quicker than a nuns knickers in a brothel. 
 

I think if you’d started with a lump sum in July 2007 just before the GFC you’d probably not be investing now after seeing 50% losses. 

If you don’t mind me asking how old are you and what’s your aims / end game plan ?
 

Edited April 7 by Jesus Wept

[desertorchid]

I started in about 1996 when igindex floated and I bought some IPO shares in them.

According to my spreadsheet:

50% investment property

30% Cash/Bonds

20% Equities

So very traditional

As an expat who never intends to return to the UK I am very geographically diversified with over half of my portfolio in Asia (HK/Singapore). Unfortunately I have stayed away from the US due to withholding tax as a company that is at least willing to pay dividends is important and that extra bite by the US gov stings. Identifying growth stocks is really tricky as I find  some decent SWOT analysis on the market is always required and beyond me.

Last time I looked I had approx 400-450 companies represented in my portfolio which is obviously way too many but at least it allows me to sleep at night when the disaster hits as I have strict limits on each holding. Lots of disasters and many winners but my overall portfolio value is up about 100% since I started which I do not consider great, or terrible.

 

Uk portion:

 

 

Edited April 8 by desertorchid

[Jesus Wept]

I assume all the companies above that you hold are held between 5 or 6 ETFs and Investment Trusts? Or is it more? 

[desertorchid]

14 minutes ago, Jesus Wept said:

I assume all the companies above that you hold are held between 5 or 6 ETFs and Investment Trusts? Or is it more? 

Nope all individual. It has taken over 20+ years. There are ETF's in there also. e,g VUKE is one of the larger holdings

 

[Jesus Wept]

45 minutes ago, desertorchid said:

Nope all individual. It has taken over 20+ years. There are ETF's in there also. e,g VUKE is one of the larger holdings

 

Wow ! Do you just use one broker? 

My aim is to try to limit my holdings to a maximum of 8-10 ETFs & Investment Trusts covering the main regions and sectors and commodities  (US, Europe, Japan, EMs, Miners, Oil and Energy and Physical metals). 

My thinking behind this was anymore than 10 and the charges for each trade and spread really start to eat into any profits. 

Even still - if one try’s to cost average each month (12 x over a year) for 10 stocks that is going to be 120 trades a year ! On just one account. With 4 accounts that’s going to be 480 trades a year ! At £11 a trade on H&L that’s going to add up massively. 

Am I being stupid here / missing something? How do you  avoid that? @Mandalorian

@desertorchid - with 450 stocks that must be unbelievable costly? Would you not think of selling them And reallocating slowly to Funds/etfs/ITs ? Eg to a ftse 100 tracker for all your UK stocks? Etc 

Edited April 8 by Jesus Wept

[desertorchid]

26 minutes ago, Jesus Wept said:

Wow ! Do you just use one broker? 

My aim is to try to limit my holdings to a maximum of 8-10 ETFs & Investment Trusts covering the main regions and sectors and commodities  (US, Europe, Japan, EMs, Miners, Oil and Energy and Physical metals). 

My thinking behind this was anymore than 10 and the charges for each trade and spread really start to eat into any profits. 

Even still - if one try’s to cost average each month (12 x over a year) for 10 stocks that is going to be 120 trades a year ! On just one account. With 4 accounts that’s going to be 480 trades a year ! At £11 a trade on H&L that’s going to add up massively. 

Am I being stupid here / missing something? How do you  avoid that? @Mandalorian

@desertorchid - with 450 stocks that must be unbelievable costly? Would you not think of selling them And reallocating slowly to Funds/etfs/ITs ? Eg to a ftse 100 tracker for all your UK stocks? Etc 

I use a mixture of HL and IB, which is insanely cheap. Now you mention it I must have spent over 5k on trades, but this is over 20+ years so no more than about 25 pounds a month.

[Libspero]

12 hours ago, Mandalorian said:

 

 

Really interesting to see that you have a couple of similar holdings to me and for exactly the same reasons (probably)

RIT     I hadn't seen mentioned here but I have a few shares in them for the same reason..  who knew the Rothschilds would be such bad investors 😂  (probably my worst performer..  though historically pretty good so planning to wait out the dip).

BERI    Same,   I got it has a hedge when things kicked off you know where.  It has remained flat but pays good dividends so I'll hold it for now.

ATST     Just a general global fund with low charges that seems to perform quite well

BRWM   Bought a while ago also in my SIPP,   has performed well though dropped back a bit recently.

 

My other holdings are more "tin-pot" which is probably where our portfolios diverge:

BRLA      Latin fund (will probably end up retiring in Latin America so it's a hedge of sorts).

BRFI       Global emerging market fund..  long term view to tap into some of the longer term potential in those countries

HBRL & SEDY      Both suggested here for Latina America.. and since I like LA I got a handful of each..  doing ok.

ANII       Fund invested in India..   if the West pivot away from China to India growth there may increase.

FRES      Purchased as a "toe in the water" as a gold hedge..   not really performing well.. down about 10%.  Might cut my losses.

VOD      Bought couple as a gamble..  didn't pay off.   Will hold for now..  pays ok divi's and still feels undervalued.

 

[Mandalorian]

11 hours ago, Jesus Wept said:

@Mandalorian very interesting and informative - cheers 🍻. 

So you started investing in a market low - pretty much right after the Great financial crash (markets down -50%) and have enjoyed a 14 year bull run with a few months of Covid -25% or so in the crash - that bounced back up quicker than a nuns knickers in a brothel. 
 

I think if you’d started with a lump sum in July 2007 just before the GFC you’d probably not be investing now after seeing 50% losses. 

If you don’t mind me asking how old are you and what’s your aims / end game plan ?
 

The GFC?  You mean that little tiny blip between 2004 and 2014?

 

Of course I would be investing even after the GFC. 

Look.  At.  That.  Graph.  Then compare it to cash.  You have got to stick your money somewhere.

 

I've never invested lump sums though.

Stick to the plan.  Regular, like clockwork, every month, through thick and thin.

 

Mid 40s.  No children.  Won't be having any.  Want to ditch work about 55.

[Mandalorian]

6 hours ago, desertorchid said:

I started in about 1996 when igindex floated and I bought some IPO shares in them.

According to my spreadsheet:

50% investment property

30% Cash/Bonds

20% Equities

So very traditional

As an expat who never intends to return to the UK I am very geographically diversified with over half of my portfolio in Asia (HK/Singapore). Unfortunately I have stayed away from the US due to withholding tax as a company that is at least willing to pay dividends is important and that extra bite by the US gov stings. Identifying growth stocks is really tricky as I find  some decent SWOT analysis on the market is always required and beyond me.

Last time I looked I had approx 400-450 companies represented in my portfolio which is obviously way too many but at least it allows me to sleep at night when the disaster hits as I have strict limits on each holding. Lots of disasters and many winners but my overall portfolio value is up about 100% since I started which I do not consider great, or terrible.

 

Uk portion:

 

 

Ever thought of just buying a tracker?  That's more or less what you have there, just at more sprawl.

[Mandalorian]

1 hour ago, Jesus Wept said:

Wow ! Do you just use one broker? 

My aim is to try to limit my holdings to a maximum of 8-10 ETFs & Investment Trusts covering the main regions and sectors and commodities  (US, Europe, Japan, EMs, Miners, Oil and Energy and Physical metals). 

My thinking behind this was anymore than 10 and the charges for each trade and spread really start to eat into any profits. 

Even still - if one try’s to cost average each month (12 x over a year) for 10 stocks that is going to be 120 trades a year ! On just one account. With 4 accounts that’s going to be 480 trades a year ! At £11 a trade on H&L that’s going to add up massively. 

Am I being stupid here / missing something? How do you  avoid that? @Mandalorian

@desertorchid - with 450 stocks that must be unbelievable costly? Would you not think of selling them And reallocating slowly to Funds/etfs/ITs ? Eg to a ftse 100 tracker for all your UK stocks? Etc 

Simple.  Don't use a broker that charges you £11 a pop.  Most charge a fiver now.

A lot offer a regular investing thing once a month where your buy is pooled and they charge you £1.50 or something daft.

Or use Vanguard's own platform (Vanguard products only) and pool twice a day for nothing.

 

The other thing you get at is diversification OF BROKER.

The FSCS limit is £85k of losses - and you are only the beneficial owner of your shares, not the legal owner. 

Your shareholding is pooled with everyone else's.  In the event of fraud and broker failure or some kind of shit where they don't hold as many shares as they claim and can't fix it...  You're screwed if you have a sizeable portfolio all with one broker.

That's why I use 4 different brokers.  Soon to be 5.  If one goes under then I lose (at worst) 20% of my shares.

[Harley]

12 hours ago, Mandalorian said:

I had Aviva, Vodafone, United Utilities, SSE, Rio Tinto.  All the usual suspects.  15 or 20 companies or so.  I was doing well.  5% a year of 'free money' plus a few % on the capital too.  So I thought.  Then I did some research and found out the free money isn't free and the capital growth in FTSE companies is pedestrian at best.

Yep, we had gradually built up two div focussed portfolios of mainly UK stocks and then we had the 2020 crash.  Many have not recovered or it would have taken long time.  Oh, and the divs stopped!

I see this as an evolution.  You build up capital and then get conservative and focus on income 'cause that's what you need in retirement and how you're meant to behave.

But in our case we felt we needed to move on.  We like the clarity of an accumulation fund and its single total return.  I quite like trading div stocks though!

Edited April 8 by Harley

[Mandalorian]

1 hour ago, Libspero said:

 

Really interesting to see that you have a couple of similar holdings to me and for exactly the same reasons (probably)

RIT     I hadn't seen mentioned here but I have a few shares in them for the same reason..  who knew the Rothschilds would be such bad investors 😂  (probably my worst performer..  though historically pretty good so planning to wait out the dip).

BERI    Same,   I got it has a hedge when things kicked off you know where.  It has remained flat but pays good dividends so I'll hold it for now.

ATST     Just a general global fund with low charges that seems to perform quite well

BRWM   Bought a while ago also in my SIPP,   has performed well though dropped back a bit recently.

 

My other holdings are more "tin-pot" which is probably where our portfolios diverge:

BRLA      Latin fund (will probably end up retiring in Latin America so it's a hedge of sorts).

BRFI       Global emerging market fund..  long term view to tap into some of the longer term potential in those countries

HBRL & SEDY      Both suggested here for Latina America.. and since I like LA I got a handful of each..  doing ok.

ANII       Fund invested in India..   if the West pivot away from China to India growth there may increase.

FRES      Purchased as a "toe in the water" as a gold hedge..   not really performing well.. down about 10%.  Might cut my losses.

VOD      Bought couple as a gamble..  didn't pay off.   Will hold for now..  pays ok divi's and still feels undervalued.

 

Interesting stuff.

I wonder about India.  It seems to be the future.  And perhaps always will be.  I had some India focused ITs and it never seemed to go anywhere.  So I dumped it for AAS, which has done a lot better.

Maybe the chit chat on the "stick this job up your arse" thread about Indian productivity explains a lot.

 

I am big on miners and natural resources though.  Always have been.  Digging dirt out of the ground and turning it into something useful just chimes with me.  The ultimate in adding value.

3 minutes ago, Harley said:

Yep, we had gradually built up two div focussed portfolios of mainly UK stocks and then we had the 2020 crash.  Many have not recovered.  

I see this as an evolution.  You build up capital and then get conservative and focus in income 'cause that's what you need in retirement.

But in our case we felt we needed to move on.  I quite like trading div stocks though!

You can make your own income by selling shares.  Same effect as a dividend.  Doesn't feel that way and is counter-intuitive, but it is true.

Edited April 8 by Mandalorian

[desertorchid]

11 minutes ago, Mandalorian said:

Simple.  Don't use a broker that charges you £11 a pop.  Most charge a fiver now.

A lot offer a regular investing thing once a month where your buy is pooled and they charge you £1.50 or something daft.

Or use Vanguard's own platform (Vanguard products only) and pool twice a day for nothing.

 

The other thing you get at is diversification OF BROKER.

The FSCS limit is £85k of losses - and you are only the beneficial owner of your shares, not the legal owner. 

Your shareholding is pooled with everyone else's.  In the event of fraud and broker failure or some kind of shit where they don't hold as many shares as they claim and can't fix it...  You're screwed if you have a sizeable portfolio all with one broker.

That's why I use 4 different brokers.  Soon to be 5.  If one goes under then I lose (at worst) 20% of my shares.

You would very unlikely lose your shares as when SVS Securities collapsed it took over 2 years of outboarding etc to another broker until I could eventually transfer again to HL. It was a real pan. Arguably you are increasing the risk of that having 5 brokers

[Jesus Wept]

1 hour ago, Mandalorian said:

Simple.  Don't use a broker that charges you £11 a pop.  Most charge a fiver now.

A lot offer a regular investing thing once a month where your buy is pooled and they charge you £1.50 or something daft.

Or use Vanguard's own platform (Vanguard products only) and pool twice a day for nothing.

 

The other thing you get at is diversification OF BROKER.

The FSCS limit is £85k of losses - and you are only the beneficial owner of your shares, not the legal owner. 

Your shareholding is pooled with everyone else's.  In the event of fraud and broker failure or some kind of shit where they don't hold as many shares as they claim and can't fix it...  You're screwed if you have a sizeable portfolio all with one broker.

That's why I use 4 different brokers.  Soon to be 5.  If one goes under then I lose (at worst) 20% of my shares.

 

1 hour ago, desertorchid said:

You would very unlikely lose your shares as when SVS Securities collapsed it took over 2 years of outboarding etc to another broker until I could eventually transfer again to HL. It was a real pan. Arguably you are increasing the risk of that having 5 brokers

I think all the politicians have their holdings in Hargreaves & Lansdowne. I’d like to think they’d be bailed out in the event of a collapse ! 

 One great thing about H&L is no dealing fees at all for the children - so I have been cost averaging on 7-8 funds/ITs each month as soon as the allowance comes through each April. @Mandalorian will like that ! 
 

Edited April 8 by Jesus Wept

[goldbug9999]

Would be fun for someone to try and formulate a DOSBODS portfolio.

[goldbug9999]

4 hours ago, Jesus Wept said:

Wow ! Do you just use one broker? 

My aim is to try to limit my holdings to a maximum of 8-10 ETFs & Investment Trusts covering the main regions and sectors and commodities  (US, Europe, Japan, EMs, Miners, Oil and Energy and Physical metals). 

My thinking behind this was anymore than 10 and the charges for each trade and spread really start to eat into any profits. 

Even still - if one try’s to cost average each month (12 x over a year) for 10 stocks that is going to be 120 trades a year ! On just one account. With 4 accounts that’s going to be 480 trades a year ! At £11 a trade on H&L that’s going to add up massively. 

Am I being stupid here / missing something? How do you  avoid that? @Mandalorian

@desertorchid - with 450 stocks that must be unbelievable costly? Would you not think of selling them And reallocating slowly to Funds/etfs/ITs ? Eg to a ftse 100 tracker for all your UK stocks? Etc 

If you rotated the new units bought so your buying each quarterly (with a correspondingly larger amount) youd cut number of trades by 2/3rds.

Edited April 8 by goldbug9999

[Bobthebuilder]

3 hours ago, Mandalorian said:

Mid 40s.  No children.  Won't be having any.  Want to ditch work about 55.

I am 55 and have ditched work, sounds like you have a plan, don't wish your life away tho, it don't half go fast and you will be knocking on 55 before you know it.

Outside of your portfolio I would say make sure you have got rid of any mortgage by 55, and get everything done to the house to future proof it the best you can. I did this about 4 years ago, new windows, doors, rewire, re pointing, new boiler, glad I did it before the inflation kicked in these last couple of years.

Good luck.

Edit, the house works were pre pandemic so more than 4 years ago, crikey time does pass fast these days.

Edited April 8 by Bobthebuilder

[Mandalorian]

4 hours ago, desertorchid said:

You would very unlikely lose your shares as when SVS Securities collapsed it took over 2 years of outboarding etc to another broker until I could eventually transfer again to HL. It was a real pan. Arguably you are increasing the risk of that having 5 brokers

I'm not a 'put all eggs in one basket and watch the basket' kind of guy

2 hours ago, goldbug9999 said:

Would be fun for someone to try and formulate a DOSBODS portfolio.

It would just have BATS. VOD and a load of shitty gold miners and dodgy Chinese shares in it.

[Mandalorian]

1 hour ago, Bobthebuilder said:

I am 55 and have ditched work, sounds like you have a plan, don't wish your life away tho, it don't half go fast and you will be knocking on 55 before you know it.

Outside of your portfolio I would say make sure you have got rid of any mortgage by 55, and get everything done to the house to future proof it the best you can. I did this about 4 years ago, new windows, doors, rewire, re pointing, new boiler, glad I did it before the inflation kicked in these last couple of years.

Good luck.

Edit, the house works were pre pandemic so more than 4 years ago, crikey time does pass fast these days.

What's a mortgage?   Let's just the The Family must have some Italian in us.

I'm currently wondering where the last 20 years went.  It feels like about 10.

[goldbug9999]

31 minutes ago, Mandalorian said:

I'm not a 'put all eggs in one basket and watch the basket' kind of guy

5 brokers is just making your own life needlessly complicated. Investments held by a broker are legally yours not the brokers, the only thing at any real risk is any cash holding. I mean If I had multiple millions + investment I might be tempted to split into 2 just so I'm guaranteed access to to at least half of it in the event one of them was tied up with insolvency proceedings or something.

Edited April 8 by goldbug9999

[Harley]

5 hours ago, Mandalorian said:

You can make your own income by selling shares.  Same effect as a dividend.  Doesn't feel that way and is counter-intuitive, but it is true.

Exactly what I meant (said) and what we now do.  That was my point, we found divs a distraction.