How does Buy to Let END!

[Ash4781b]

4 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

Yes. and Yes

I can’t see where any support comes from? They could switch the loan to interest onl.. oh wait.  I suppose it’s got to be a massive housing benefit increase.

[Wight Flight]

Just now, Ash4781b said:

I can’t see where any support comes from? They could switch the loan to interest onl.. oh wait.  I suppose it’s got to be a massive housing benefit increase.

Which would crucify everyone that pays their own rent.

[Rare Bear]

3 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

Which would crucify everyone that pays their own rent.

Not to mention those who actually pay the housing benefit.

[Wight Flight]

5 minutes ago, Rare Bear said:

Not to mention those who actually pay the housing benefit.

True.

My taxes are actually bidding against me.

Bastards.

[sancho panza]

one for @spygirl CRE heading up poop creek sans le paddle

suspect our banks are balls deep

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/british-landlords-face-3bn-hit-105432244.html

Landlords face losing billions in rent owed by WeWork, as the work space provider grapples with the rise of home working.

British landlords are exposed to more than £3bn in rental commitments from WeWork, London’s biggest private tenant.

A Telegraph analysis of WeWork’s UK subsidiaries shows the pay-as-you-go office provider has signed leases worth £3.1bn at more than 50 locations in Britain.

 

But the firm, once valued at $47bn (£37bn), has warned that there are “substantial doubts” over its ability to keep operating and its shares have lost 97pc of their value over the past 12 months.

can

 

[XswampyX]

How does BTL end?

Quickly! 

 

[GTM]

2 hours ago, XswampyX said:

How does BTL end?

Quickly! 

 

What a fucking bell end. 2 of his 3 options at the end. 

Option 1: The Government should hose money at mortgage holders.

Option 3: The Government should stop hosing money at people.

[XswampyX]

14 minutes ago, GTM said:

What a fucking bell end. 2 of his 3 options at the end. 

Option 1: The Government should hose money at mortgage holders.

Option 3: The Government should stop hosing money at people.

Yeah, I know!

He seems to be missing the whole point of raising interest rates.

You (him) have to realise whatever it is, whatever the cost it isn't the government or business that pay the price... it's fucking us!

What a twat, but he makes some good points.  

[AWW]

On 29/07/2023 at 17:49, With a crooked smile said:

How long have you been holding out? I'm interested in what rough area it is and how much youve paid in rent during that time. Everything I see indicates that even if a couple of years throth gets taken off people are well out of pocket for following advice on ToS.

That's part of the reason there's so much bitterness on here.  People got taken in and don't want to acknowledge how much it cost them.

The sums are a bit more complex than just "how much have you paid in rent?" and there are also other factors.

The house I'm renting for £2.5k a month would have cost at least a million quid at any point since I've been in a position to buy something like it. I'd have put down £200k in 2016, but didn't because it was always obvious that IRs would normalise at some point, and I didn't want that point to be just after I bought a house. The risk of going from ZIRP to normal IRs was always just too big for me to take, given the life-changing sums involved.

Anyway, the house would have gone up to about £1.25m peak, but I wouldn't have sold it, so it doesn't matter. No idea what it's worth now as the market has ceased to exist. I'd have been paying, what, £20k a year in interest on average, reducing slightly until now? And a £32k repayment element. Instead, it's been £30k a year rent and £40k into my SIPP, which is not only up hugely over the last few years thanks to the thread that most of us are here for, but also comes with associated tax relief. I can't be bothered to do the sums to get the exact numbers, but it doesn't feel like there's a lot in it.

And, right now, if I'd bought, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night, waiting for the interest portion of the mortgage to increase to somewhere north of £40k a year even on the reduced balance of ~£600k, and watching my equity halve or more.

Personally, much of the bitterness I see on here stems from success (or lack of) with women rather than tenure.

[AWW]

23 hours ago, sancho panza said:

Landlords face losing billions in rent owed by WeWork, as the work space provider grapples with the rise of home working.

Anecdata: pre-Covid, in the City, the WeWorks were full of office overspill from the big investment banks. At ~£300 a month, it was a cheap way of getting people out of the main buildings but still in the area for meetings. I knew many people who were doing this, all loving it, largely because of the free beer at 4pm and the ability to lose an hour wandering from a WeWork to a corporate office for a meeting.

Today, I don't know anyone who works in one.

[With a crooked smile]

5 hours ago, AWW said:

The sums are a bit more complex than just "how much have you paid in rent?" and there are also other factors.

Of course they are, there's not knowing when you will be moved on, the fact you can't really decorate and make changes to the house yourself, restrictions over pets, forced moving costs etc to add.

The costs are mental as well as monetary. Renting generally a mugs game.

[Formerly]

7 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

Of course they are, there's not knowing when you will be moved on, the fact you can't really decorate and make changes to the house yourself, restrictions over pets, forced moving costs etc to add.

The costs are mental as well as monetary. Renting generally a mugs game.

You could have summarised that as "having to deal with a dickhead landlord".

[wherebee]

32 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

Of course they are, there's not knowing when you will be moved on, the fact you can't really decorate and make changes to the house yourself, restrictions over pets, forced moving costs etc to add.

The costs are mental as well as monetary. Renting generally a mugs game.

I used renting tactically a couple of times, for example when a guest worker in a country where you'd know you'd be leaving after a couple of years.  Also rented, not bought, when I lived with a redhead girlfriend who I deep down knew would never last.....

[With a crooked smile]

14 minutes ago, wherebee said:

I used renting tactically a couple of times, for example when a guest worker in a country where you'd know you'd be leaving after a couple of years.  Also rented, not bought, when I lived with a redhead girlfriend who I deep down knew would never last.....

Yeah that's why I said generally, there will always be edge cases. I rented for 9 months Jan 21

[Stuey]

56 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

Yeah that's why I said generally, there will always be edge cases. I rented for 9 months Jan 21

I boosted my salary from a pittance to £162k by renting and being mobile.

It's a shoddy situation at 40y/o+ though. 

[With a crooked smile]

8 minutes ago, Stuey said:

I boosted my salary from a pittance to £162k by renting and being mobile.

It's a shoddy situation at 40y/o+ though. 

I never needed to rent to join the 6 figures club.

I've finished "proper" work but still managed to pick up £675 a day fully remote on the way out the door.

[onlyme]

Just now, With a crooked smile said:

I never needed to rent to join the 6 figures club.

I've finished "proper" work but still managed to pick up £675 a day fully remote on the way out the door.

Reality is access to the jobs in the highest paying sectors of the  market were (and most still are) based around London / SE. For the vast majority living outside that area renting has been necessary to gain access to them, at least initially maybe for the lucky ones with the right timing in terms of market dynamics. 

[Formerly]

34 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

I never needed to rent to join the 6 figures club.

I've finished "proper" work but still managed to pick up £675 a day fully remote on the way out the door.

... is considerably richer than...

43 minutes ago, Stuey said:

I boosted my salary from a pittance to £162k by renting and being mobile.

It's a shoddy situation at 40y/o+ though. 

 

[Stuey]

38 minutes ago, Formerly said:

... is considerably richer than...

 

£675 * 260days = £175k. No holidays or bank holidays for @With a crooked smile then... 

[leonardratso]

i wouldnt boast too much about living with mick hucknall.

[With a crooked smile]

2 hours ago, Stuey said:

£675 * 260days = £175k. No holidays or bank holidays for @With a crooked smile then... 

I'm working part time now. Can't be arsed with corp world full time.

Once the work from this client dries up that's it for me. I've started a part time self employed job outside of IT / SaaS / Unified Comms. You wouldn't believe what I'm doing (it's niche).

Ultimately the wife and I own a hotel with a good turnover, 1 flat with a mortgage (£370 a month until 2026) rent 1300 a month and another flat without a mortgage rent £1100 a month. Plus in our house we currently have a lodger £450 a month. Ultimately that provides a base income per month that allows me not to worry to much about life as long as I don't let my eye go off the ball.

[AWW]

4 hours ago, With a crooked smile said:

Of course they are, there's not knowing when you will be moved on, the fact you can't really decorate and make changes to the house yourself, restrictions over pets, forced moving costs etc to add.

The costs are mental as well as monetary. Renting generally a mugs game.

Suggest a trip to a school gate in a nice bit of London/SE and survey the mental state of parents who've recently bought houses vs those who rent and have built capital in more liquid asset classes less negatively correlated with the cost of credit. My eldest is just out of reception, so lots of fellow parents who bought just long enough ago to have a) paid a lot of money for their house and b) just be rolling off their 5 year 1-point-something percent fix to 

Of course, it'll be different in other parts of the country where house prices aren't as high and rental yields are better. I don't think it's possible to generalise; there's no single housing market and everyone makes their own choices and has to live with them.

[MithrilVest]

1 hour ago, With a crooked smile said:

I'm working part time now. Can't be arsed with corp world full time.

Once the work from this client dries up that's it for me. I've started a part time self employed job outside of IT / SaaS / Unified Comms. You wouldn't believe what I'm doing (it's niche).

Ultimately the wife and I own a hotel with a good turnover, 1 flat with a mortgage (£370 a month until 2026) rent 1300 a month and another flat without a mortgage rent £1100 a month. Plus in our house we currently have a lodger £450 a month. Ultimately that provides a base income per month that allows me not to worry to much about life as long as I don't let my eye go off the ball.

Have you shared the story as to how you ended up owning a hotel before? If not would you be open to doing so?

Given what you've previously said about being in Tech Sales (I think) it's quite a different area, so I'm curious as to the path that led to you owning a hotel.

Does your lodger have their own annexe? Or are they sharing your lounge, kitchen etc.? Again, given what you've said about your financial status having a lodger intrigues me. 

Beyond my curiosity, you're exactly right, having those income streams allows you to explore options other than PAYE with a lower risk than might otherwise be the case (without wanting to go off topic, that is purported to be one of the benefits of Universal Basic Income, in that it allows people to try and start a venture without them being destitute).

Please take the fifth if I'm being overly inquisitive.

[With a crooked smile]

30 minutes ago, MithrilVest said:

Have you shared the story as to how you ended up owning a hotel before? If not would you be open to doing so?

Sure, I think I've said a few bits on here before and certainly shared details by PM. 

I'll do a reply this evening, it all started with Crashpadder a site Airbnb took over to gain a foot print in the UK a long time ago. Escape to the Chateux prob played a part as well.

As did family history (Grandmother on my dad's side of the family all owned pubs (some had multiple at the time) plus my Uncle on my mother's side was in comms (BT manager) who also owned a BnB.

[With a crooked smile]

4 hours ago, MithrilVest said:

Given what you've previously said about being in Tech Sales (I think) it's quite a different area, so I'm curious as to the path that led to you owning a hotel.

I think as mentioned above a bit of it was in my blood, my great grandfather owned several pubs, he set all his sons up with pubs. My grandmother married someone  from Malta who fought in the British Navy during WW2.  That was apparently a bit frowned upon and I do t think women owned pubs back then anyway. She was offered £2k or a house worth the same amount. She went with the house option although according to my Dad they grew up in poverty. 

My Dad's a workaholic and I probably am to an extent as well. 

On my mothers side her brother got voluntary redundancy from BT in the 80s with a very good pension. He was actually quite like a pub landlord. Converted 3 agricultural workers cottages into a B&B worked the summers and spent the autumn travelling via Caravan or motorhome through Europe.

Years ago my wife and I bought a house with 3 reception rooms as she wanted to go self employed as a Speech and Language Therapist and wanted a dedicated therapy room. That meant upstairs was massive to. 5 bedrooms plus an office pictures below. 

It was a shithole so we started renting the 3 sparerooms out on crashpadder that went on to beome part of airbnb. I used the money from that to do the house up. This is a long time back and i was making 16k plus a year on the side.

Bought the house 350k sold 9 years later for 640k.

My wife had a flat when we met we rented that out on airbnb for approx 25k a year when as a residental it made 7.2k. Later airbnb got saturated and we turned in back for residential letting (just prior to covid by pure chance).

We put all the airbnb flat money aside over 6 or so years and bought another flat outright.

Bought the hotel at the end of lockdown with 50% down (you couldnt get a bigger LTV at the time).

Rented as we couldnt get a lender to give us a mortgage for a hotel and a house at the same time.

After 6 months the hotel had generated massove profits post covid i also had around 20k in RSUs (shares from work). Halifax were ok to lend on residential to us. Actually bought a tired BnB (Victorian terrace) round the corner from our hotel. Gradually converting it into a nice family house. Nearly half way there. The house was 80k down plus 320k mortgage. 

4 hours ago, MithrilVest said:

Does your lodger have their own annexe? Or are they sharing your lounge, kitchen etc.? Again, given what you've said about your financial status having a lodger intrigues me. 

We've not shared our own house with someone else for many years. A young woman knocked on the door of our hotel looking for accommodation and work. My wife took pity on here and took her into ours as a lodger. She doesn't work. I don't know where she gets her money from. She had some mental health problems but engaged with the NHS and seems to have mainly sorted it out. Her rooms ensuite she uses a microwave etc in there. I probably see her every couple of days at breakfast time when she comes and plays with our cat and has a coffee downstairs. 

Longer term when she leaves we've nearly finished the top floor. This will be ensuite with a kitchenette.  We'll rent that out on a short term lodging basis (prefer to having a permie).

Like I said I'm a bit of a workaholic and my view is if the money is there I'm going to take it.

So whats next? Typically I do things for a while and then move on. End game for us is 5-8 years time sell the hotel and the house. Either buy a residential property with a separate holiday cottage on the side (there's a lot of farm buildings that go this way here in The Lakes) or buy a really nice house rent it out occasionally as a holiday let and go off in a caravan for a bit.

Sorry fucking long post. Feel free to ask more questions I'm a fairly open book.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by With a crooked smile
Added photos