How does Buy to Let END!

[With a crooked smile]

4 hours ago, King Penda said:

They are fleeing look at the price of the house and how much he has coming in .even I’m stunned you can get that much for a terrace with zero parking. If you can’t make this work you’re in trouble. https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/137809832#/media?channel=RES_BUY&id=media1 

You often see this sort of thing in Cockermouth not far from me. Houses there are pretty cheap due to historical flood risk. A lots been done to reduce the flood risk so its fairly attractive. 

I think the tennant turn over is fairly high (lots of medium term contracts at Sellafield etc.

If you can be bothered with the hassle or scale it so you have enough of these to pay someone to manage them for you it looks like a good deal.

Check out the spareroom site if you want. The live out professional landlords are fairly easy to spot. They generally do pretty good video tours of the properties as well.

Edited July 24, 2023 by With a crooked smile

[With a crooked smile]

Seeing more and more niche lenders that I've not heard of before entering the market with competitive offers. My mortgages have 3 years to run on ultra low rates so I'm not really bothered but it's interesting to see.

The below is for 75% LTV

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by With a crooked smile
Added LTV details

[spygirl]

More exmaples of why BTL should never hav happened.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66296333

Chantelle says the family were made homeless four months ago after being served with a Section 21 notice, or no-fault eviction.

"Its very difficult," says the 21-year-old. "He wakes up crying for a bottle and wakes her up, and she thinks it's morning and gets up."

Their room has a small fridge and a microwave, "so we can sterilise his bottles". The lack of any decent cooking facilities means - like the dozens of other families in the hotel - they often have to eat out.

Even though her partner works full-time as an engineer, their age, says Chantelle, is working against them: "Because we're so young, no-one will take you on without a guarantor, and we don't have a guarantor."

.....

Dorothy Dawson has been renting out her home in Devon for 16 years but recently agreed to sell the property, blaming government plans to ban no-fault evictions in England and rising costs.

"My buy-to-let mortgage is going to triple. The council tax between tenants has gone up, the standing charges on the utilities have gone up. It's not worth it," she says.

 

The fix for the first one isthe seconds getting repod and the place being sold to the first Chantelle - at waht they can afford.

 

[AlfredTheLittle]

7 minutes ago, spygirl said:

More exmaples of why BTL should never hav happened.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66296333

Chantelle says the family were made homeless four months ago after being served with a Section 21 notice, or no-fault eviction.

"Its very difficult," says the 21-year-old. "He wakes up crying for a bottle and wakes her up, and she thinks it's morning and gets up."

Their room has a small fridge and a microwave, "so we can sterilise his bottles". The lack of any decent cooking facilities means - like the dozens of other families in the hotel - they often have to eat out.

Even though her partner works full-time as an engineer, their age, says Chantelle, is working against them: "Because we're so young, no-one will take you on without a guarantor, and we don't have a guarantor."

.....

Dorothy Dawson has been renting out her home in Devon for 16 years but recently agreed to sell the property, blaming government plans to ban no-fault evictions in England and rising costs.

"My buy-to-let mortgage is going to triple. The council tax between tenants has gone up, the standing charges on the utilities have gone up. It's not worth it," she says.

 

The fix for the first one isthe seconds getting repod and the place being sold to the first Chantelle - at waht they can afford.

 

At least the house in Devon is let. The problem is empty houses and holiday lets. I'm not a socialist, but surely the first duty of government is to ensure the basics, like shelter, are available. , on the assumption that they have no intention of stopping immigration, they should be ensuring all property is fully used so that people can live in decent conditions.

[No One]

On 21/07/2023 at 10:04, No One said:

Whilst many celebrate the demise of the OI BTL Slumlord and we wont miss them, let's not delude ourselves that the transition will be painless because it wont be.

 

On 21/07/2023 at 10:10, JoeDavola said:

Yes I think there will be a collapse in available housing that is desirable, either as a renter or buyer. Well.. I say will be, I think it's already happened.

I hope my folks don't actually sell their house as it's big enough to be a proper multi-generational house i.e. two families could live in it quite separately and not step on each others toes at all, whcih is a great asset to have in this situation.

 

On 21/07/2023 at 10:20, sancho panza said:

I think you're absolutely right Noone.

We rent,we've a two year deal matturing Jan 23 and I've been sat here watching prices go up rapidly for a few motnhs.

But I msut stress,ehre in Leicestershire things have calmed down again.Invetroy is back upo to normal.Yes asking prices on average are higher but I think transaction prices have reverted.Marekts are local.Also,I'm not in the bit of the marekt where I'm jsut above the LHA .

 

 

On 21/07/2023 at 10:23, Wight Flight said:

Same as here. Agents are getting 100+ applications in the first hour. One told me they turn their phone off after 30 minutes as it is pointless answering it.

Are there any local property letting facebook groups? People do seem to have some success on these, and it gives you a chance to explain a bit about yourself to a private landlord rather than just being a number to an estate agent.

 

Another day, another viewing. I'm now in week 2 of house-hunting-hell. 

Viewed my third house, got the sheet to fill in nd make my case to the EA/LL overlords of why they should allow a lowly peasant like me the privilege of giving them my unworthy money for staying in there sacred temple.

Joking aside, the market is so hot that you have to offer above asking, generally. The LL then gets these offers and picks who he likes. Fortunately the girl told me this LL wants a specific profile, secure job and income, over higher rent. So good for me because I am way above average rent. The girl was nice btw, post was a joke.

What's not a joke is the state of the market, which is not just local. See:

 

Quote

Following reports of lots of tenants chasing a smaller number of properties to rent, BBC News commissioned Rightmove to trawl its data and gather a picture of the growing level of competition in the private rental sector.

It found that in Britain, in May, there were typically 20 requests to view each available property in Britain from prospective tenants, up from 19 the previous year, and six in 2019, before the Covid pandemic.

• Listen: Five Minutes On - Rental Strife - Queuing for a Viewing
• Rental reforms needed now, not later - charities

In every region, the number has tripled at the least since 2019.

Anecdotal evidence shows tenants are offering more than the asking rent, or arriving early to get to the front of the queue.

*Underline, bold and Italics added by me.

So that's the state of the market right now. 

My daily routine is RM refresh for the latest properties in my area to be listed, call immediately and view. Fill their overzealous paperwork and wait for a yes or no. Rinse and repeat. Sometimes sequentially so I can grab something.

If this fails I will go to another town, and have to change school for the kid.

I still want IR rises and for the HPC so I can buy at market bottom.
 

[Wight Flight]

16 minutes ago, No One said:

 

 

 

Another day, another viewing. I'm now in week 2 of house-hunting-hell. 

Viewed my third house, got the sheet to fill in nd make my case to the EA/LL overlords of why they should allow a lowly peasant like me the privilege of giving them my unworthy money for staying in there sacred temple.

Joking aside, the market is so hot that you have to offer above asking, generally. The LL then gets these offers and picks who he likes. Fortunately the girl told me this LL wants a specific profile, secure job and income, over higher rent. So good for me because I am way above average rent. The girl was nice btw, post was a joke.

What's not a joke is the state of the market, which is not just local. See:

 

*Underline, bold and Italics added by me.

So that's the state of the market right now. 

My daily routine is RM refresh for the latest properties in my area to be listed, call immediately and view. Fill their overzealous paperwork and wait for a yes or no. Rinse and repeat. Sometimes sequentially so I can grab something.

If this fails I will go to another town, and have to change school for the kid.

I still want IR rises and for the HPC so I can buy at market bottom.
 

This is actually a misleading figure that most people are failing to understand.

Yes, there may be 50 applicants for every property, but it doesn't mean that when that property is let there are 49 homeless people. It just means those 49 all apply for the next place on the market, and maybe another lost soul will join them.

Again the best applicant will get the home, and the other 49 will move on again and again.

You could let 1,000 properties, and the bottom 49 would still not get somewhere to live. 

Therefore, given time and assuming you are not in the bottom 49 you will get somewhere to live.

That isn't to say it isn't all shit though, just that the level of doom and gloom is overstated.

 

 

[spygirl]

Higher mortgage costs threaten surge of UK buy-to-let property sales

Landlords look to get rid of financial ‘headache’ by exiting rental market, further depressing the housing market

https://www.ft.com/content/ca25a8e8-a8fd-4c0d-bcf7-3b8660a05191

Which bit of insanely leveraged IO BTL going wrong when IR icnrease do the clever people at the FT fail to grasp?

Did they think the vast increase of the PRS was all funded by LL hard earned cash?

Did they expect IRs to stay at 2% for ever??

Higher mortgage costs have hit leveraged property investors hard this year and many landlords, especially the smaller ones, are struggling with their business models, estate agents and analysts have warned. Other factors putting pressure on landlords’ business models include tax changes, upcoming tenancy reform in England and the prospect of new rules limiting the frequency of rent reviews.

 

....

In a report last week, the consultancy Capital Economics calculated that, with rates on fixed buy-to-let mortgage more than doubling since 2021, refinancing now could push costs — including interest, tax and operational expenses — above rental income on more than a fifth of UK properties.

They are fast approaching tripling.

The consultancy estimated that 11 per cent of rental homes would become unprofitable on a mortgage rate of 5 per cent, rising to 21 per cent on a 6 per cent rate, assuming in both cases a 4.6 per cent rental yield, a measure of investment return comparing annual rent on a property with its value.

Does beg the question why the banks could not have put these numbers into Excel?

 

[spygirl]

Comments -

The reason rents have hit record highs is because landlords are leaving the sector (and thus rental supply is decreasing), whereas demand for renting is increasing. People here can bang on about ways to hurt landlords, but it’s renters who always end up paying the higher costs (Section 24 being a key example of this). If you want to actually and meaningfully solve our housing problem, we need to either:

(a). Tackle the supply side, by fixing our broken and archaic planning system, instead of just giving into the whims of NIMBYs.

or (b). Tackle the demand side, and not let 600k people into the country in a single year without first thinking about the prerequisite long term infrastructure needed to house these people.

 

Reply -

You do realise that at least some of these much hated immigrants are actually nurses, students, and even builders? Most of them have nowhere near enough money to buy a house anyway, partly due to their lack of access to the Bank of Mom and Dad, so please stop blaming them for all housing woes. British people love to hate immigrants while simultaneously wondering why on earth it is so much more difficult and/or expensive to get a medical appointment or have a leaky tap fixed

 

Id love to see the number of nurses builder migrants - fucked know why hes put students, versus, say, Deliveroo,

IME Deliveroo/Nurses  is about 100 to 1

 

[sancho panza]

13 hours ago, No One said:

 

 

 

Another day, another viewing. I'm now in week 2 of house-hunting-hell. 

Viewed my third house, got the sheet to fill in nd make my case to the EA/LL overlords of why they should allow a lowly peasant like me the privilege of giving them my unworthy money for staying in there sacred temple.

Joking aside, the market is so hot that you have to offer above asking, generally. The LL then gets these offers and picks who he likes. Fortunately the girl told me this LL wants a specific profile, secure job and income, over higher rent. So good for me because I am way above average rent. The girl was nice btw, post was a joke.

What's not a joke is the state of the market, which is not just local. See:

 

*Underline, bold and Italics added by me.

So that's the state of the market right now. 

My daily routine is RM refresh for the latest properties in my area to be listed, call immediately and view. Fill their overzealous paperwork and wait for a yes or no. Rinse and repeat. Sometimes sequentially so I can grab something.

If this fails I will go to another town, and have to change school for the kid.

I still want IR rises and for the HPC so I can buy at market bottom.
 

round our way in Leics invetory is level.top end is pretty much where it was 1/2/3 years ago price wise

 

 

this is where prices have risen maybe 30%-50% over the year or two.

1 hour ago, spygirl said:

The consultancy estimated that 11 per cent of rental homes would become unprofitable on a mortgage rate of 5 per cent, rising to 21 per cent on a 6 per cent rate, assuming in both cases a 4.6 per cent rental yield, a measure of investment return comparing annual rent on a property with its value.

 

Does beg the question why the banks could not have put these numbers into Excel?

 

I think it''s considerably worse than that tbh.Time will tell.Bad time for both tenants and LL's as the market transitions to a more institutional base.

1 hour ago, spygirl said:

or (b). Tackle the demand side, and not let 600k people into the country in a single year without first thinking about the prerequisite long term infrastructure needed to house these people.

 

Reply -

You do realise that at least some of these much hated immigrants are actually nurses, students, and even builders? Most of them have nowhere near enough money to buy a house anyway, partly due to their lack of access to the Bank of Mom and Dad, so please stop blaming them for all housing woes. British people love to hate immigrants while simultaneously wondering why on earth it is so much more difficult and/or expensive to get a medical appointment or have a leaky tap fixed

 

This is exactly why bottom level hosues have risen in terms of rent.It's absolutely insane what the UK govt is doing to it's working people.

[spygirl]

1 hour ago, sancho panza said:

round our way in Leics invetory is level.top end is pretty much where it was 1/2/3 years ago price wise

 

 

this is where prices have risen maybe 30%-50% over the year or two.

I think it''s considerably worse than that tbh.Time will tell.Bad time for both tenants and LL's as the market transitions to a more institutional base.

This is exactly why bottom level hosues have risen in terms of rent.It's absolutely insane what the UK govt is doing to it's working people.

Gogle has not deiced im itnersted in LLing, so I can the L news feed.

There was this one yesterday - 

https://www.property118.com/landlords-face-secret-subletting-surge/

 

 

Comment - 

 

a small 2 bed flat i manage on behalf of my family is about to become vacant. i started the re-letting process and advertised on line at 13.00 and within 2 hours i had 2 appointments for that same day at 17.00 and 19.00. the 2nd viewing made offer which was accepted.
the following day i had a couple who asked to view 5 days later, i contacted them and told them an acceptable offer had been received, and there was no point in making a viewing. but the Scarry part of this process was, 2 days later this couple offered £410pmth. over my asking price WITHOUT a VIEWING!! i declined the offer and within 24 hours i received a further offer of £810 p mth. over the asking price., nearly 60% over. there are cheaper flats available in my area and i immediately thought this offer was likely to be earmarked for sub letting or possibly something worse. i have been an agent for family over 25 years, and only had 1 tenant who got into arrears 20 years ago. i agreed a repayment plan over 2 years and he is still a tenant. possibly my best tenant. PLEASE BE CAREFUL when considering accepting financially attractive rental offers, as there MIGHT be a downside!! If its too good to be true,---BEWARE

 

 

I sort of wodner if the  50 takers for every property BS .... is sort of unatural demand, created by a load of scammers mgrints looking to sublet/scam to other mgirants.

Euqwally, I wonder of howman of the 50 renters chasing .... are actually foriegn and ble to let i.e. have right t oremain.

Theres a *LOT* of Indians n Africsn around at the mo.

[DurhamBorn]

On 16/07/2023 at 11:09, spygirl said:

Im with @DurhamBorn

We dont want yet another fat useless Southern single mother,

The cost and hassle of those should fall on their LA

Our hometowns up here are being flooded with southerners now.Older retired or about to retire selling up down south and retiring here and then thousands of bennie claims who get a bung from their council to come here,loads of those,you see them all joinging the local Facebook group,"iv just moved here from,,,," always job states "stay at home mother" "or retired ill health". Its the reason i think BTL is poison for ordinary towns etc,without those vipers it wouldnt be able to happen.The good news is the structural issues this has all created means rates will destroy a lot of these landlords,and the massive investment from housing associations and insurance and pension companies will finish the rest.The whole thing of course funded by LHA and bennies,direct transfer from taxpayers to landlords.

[Wight Flight]

28 minutes ago, spygirl said:

I sort of wodner if the  50 takers for every property BS .... is sort of unatural demand, created by a load of scammers mgrints looking to sublet/scam to other mgirants.

Euqwally, I wonder of howman of the 50 renters chasing .... are actually foriegn and ble to let i.e. have right t oremain.

It is genuine here.

[BWW]

2 hours ago, spygirl said:

Gogle has not deiced im itnersted in LLing, so I can the L news feed.

There was this one yesterday - 

https://www.property118.com/landlords-face-secret-subletting-surge/

 

 

Comment - 

 

a small 2 bed flat i manage on behalf of my family is about to become vacant. i started the re-letting process and advertised on line at 13.00 and within 2 hours i had 2 appointments for that same day at 17.00 and 19.00. the 2nd viewing made offer which was accepted.
the following day i had a couple who asked to view 5 days later, i contacted them and told them an acceptable offer had been received, and there was no point in making a viewing. but the Scarry part of this process was, 2 days later this couple offered £410pmth. over my asking price WITHOUT a VIEWING!! i declined the offer and within 24 hours i received a further offer of £810 p mth. over the asking price., nearly 60% over. there are cheaper flats available in my area and i immediately thought this offer was likely to be earmarked for sub letting or possibly something worse. i have been an agent for family over 25 years, and only had 1 tenant who got into arrears 20 years ago. i agreed a repayment plan over 2 years and he is still a tenant. possibly my best tenant. PLEASE BE CAREFUL when considering accepting financially attractive rental offers, as there MIGHT be a downside!! If its too good to be true,---BEWARE

 

 

I sort of wodner if the  50 takers for every property BS .... is sort of unatural demand, created by a load of scammers mgrints looking to sublet/scam to other mgirants.

Euqwally, I wonder of howman of the 50 renters chasing .... are actually foriegn and ble to let i.e. have right t oremain.

Theres a *LOT* of Indians n Africsn around at the mo.

its a misleading way to talk stats.

if there are 10 rentals 50 chasing, everyone applies for each rental thats the basic numbers that are being discussed here. 50 chasing etc.

can also be descibed as 5 tenants for each available unit. still a problem but not as represented by msm.

[Stuey]

4 hours ago, DurhamBorn said:

Our hometowns up here are being flooded with southerners now.Older retired or about to retire selling up down south and retiring here and then thousands of bennie claims who get a bung from their council to come here,loads of those,you see them all joinging the local Facebook group,"iv just moved here from,,,," always job states "stay at home mother" "or retired ill health". Its the reason i think BTL is poison for ordinary towns etc,without those vipers it wouldnt be able to happen.The good news is the structural issues this has all created means rates will destroy a lot of these landlords,and the massive investment from housing associations and insurance and pension companies will finish the rest.The whole thing of course funded by LHA and bennies,direct transfer from taxpayers to landlords.

I was having a pint at Lucifer's in Stockton about two years ago when I heard a southern accent, and thought fuck that's rare here. 

At least they're probably hiding out in Yarm and Egglescliffe.

[spygirl]

52 minutes ago, Stuey said:

I was having a pint at Lucifer's in Stockton about two years ago when I heard a southern accent, and thought fuck that's rare here. 

At least they're probably hiding out in Yarm and Egglescliffe.

No, tthse are the very downwardly mobile sorts - Loftus, Stockton, Gresham etc.

 

[Stuey]

5 minutes ago, spygirl said:

No, tthse are the very downwardly mobile sorts - Loftus, Stockton, Gresham etc.

 

Stockton is getting classy now. 

[With a crooked smile]

3 hours ago, BWW said:

its a misleading way to talk stats.

if there are 10 rentals 50 chasing, everyone applies for each rental thats the basic numbers that are being discussed here. 50 chasing etc.

can also be descibed as 5 tenants for each available unit. still a problem but not as represented by msm.

I think you're probably right here. But ultimately the feedback I see in community groups on Facebook and the general experience of renters on here is that it's difficult to find anywhere to rent.

I don't believe many landlords are concerned at the moment about tenants giving notice.

I'm pretty sure tho that plenty of tenants are concerned about LL giving notice tho.

Edited July 27, 2023 by With a crooked smile

[With a crooked smile]

40 minutes ago, Stuey said:

Stockton is getting classy now. 

I think the whole idea of areas being a certain class has gone out the window. It used to be a middle class professional couple would live in one area a council labourers another. As property prices have gone up so much you now have middle class professionals buying in areas that have very working class roots.

 

[With a crooked smile]

6 hours ago, DurhamBorn said:

The good news is the structural issues this has all created means rates will destroy a lot of these landlords,and the massive investment from housing associations and insurance and pension companies will finish the rest.The whole thing of course funded by LHA and bennies,direct transfer from taxpayers to landlords.

Given Labour are going to win the next election I'm really not sure about this prediction. It would be interested to know how many Labour MPs and specifically Labour front bench members own BTL either directly or at a distance (as an example I believe Thornbury's husband has historically made some controversial property deals that his wife does a Pontius Pilate job on).

[JoeDavola]

1 hour ago, With a crooked smile said:

I think the whole idea of areas being a certain class has gone out the window. It used to be a middle class professional couple would live in one area a council labourers another. As property prices have gone up so much you now have middle class professionals buying in areas that have very working class roots.

Yes my brother made some comment a while back that as a chartered Civil Engineer he's the most 'qualified' in his street by a long shot. Which is a polite way of saying he's in a street full of chavs cause that's what one wage affords these days if you want even a very modest 3 bed semi.

[Van Lady]

If I recall correctly John Major, John Prescott and Tony Blair all referred to a classless society. Probably others as well. Of course non of them thought of themselves like the plebs….they’re all a class above that type of thing!

There’s this great clip of Prescott being bemused when he had a conversation with a few young women.

 

[Heart's Ease]

11 minutes ago, Van Lady said:

If I recall correctly John Major, John Prescott and Tony Blair all referred to a classless society. Probably others as well. Of course non of them thought of themselves like the plebs….they’re all a class above that type of thing!

There’s this great clip of Prescott being bemused when he had a conversation with a few young women.

 

The end punchline to that is brilliant.

[No One]

On 26/07/2023 at 19:42, No One said:

 

 

 

Another day, another viewing. I'm now in week 2 of house-hunting-hell. 

Viewed my third house, got the sheet to fill in nd make my case to the EA/LL overlords of why they should allow a lowly peasant like me the privilege of giving them my unworthy money for staying in there sacred temple.

Joking aside, the market is so hot that you have to offer above asking, generally. The LL then gets these offers and picks who he likes. Fortunately the girl told me this LL wants a specific profile, secure job and income, over higher rent. So good for me because I am way above average rent. The girl was nice btw, post was a joke.

What's not a joke is the state of the market, which is not just local. See:

 

*Underline, bold and Italics added by me.

So that's the state of the market right now. 

My daily routine is RM refresh for the latest properties in my area to be listed, call immediately and view. Fill their overzealous paperwork and wait for a yes or no. Rinse and repeat. Sometimes sequentially so I can grab something.

If this fails I will go to another town, and have to change school for the kid.

I still want IR rises and for the HPC so I can buy at market bottom.
 

Another day another rejection. Viewing number 4 on Saturday. 
Offer on number 3 pending.

[Wight Flight]

12 minutes ago, No One said:

Another day another rejection. Viewing number 4 on Saturday. 
Offer on number 3 pending.

You are doing well to get viewings. Are they pre-selecting or is it fastest fingers first?

[DurhamBorn]

15 hours ago, Stuey said:

Stockton is getting classy now. 

Asians in short skirts?