Where to Migrate to?

[nirvana]

On 01/03/2024 at 08:38, MrXxxx said:

OK, so this comment is aimed at those who have actually 'made the leap' 

problem is boss, the world moves so quickly now things change very quickly....

ie. a place in frogland (and I'd bought one before that too)

Before Brexit there was free movement in Europe

After Brexit the frogs were keen for folks to stay so one could get a 'residence card' for 5 or 10 years for free....and the process was simple and worked well to be fair to em, apart from a few queues lol

I was talking to a mate who says they're charging him 250 yuros a year now......or that might just be for the application fee

I was never into renting so didn't bother beforehand......that was a big mistake with the first place, I should never have bought that...........the second place was a bargain so errr yeah, if you buy at the right price you can always 'get away with it' if you have to 'escape again' cos the world is going tits up again, or you end up with some dickheads neighbors.....which can happen after you move in as well of course!!!!

I had a mate from Paris who moved to the cuntryside but he fell out with his neighbors so bad he had to move again!

then the poor fukker was suffering from ill health and I think the daft bastard took a clotshot or 2 cos he ignored my advice

anyways, bon courage

[nirvana]

53 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

I think if you can get such a situation [I know from personal experience] that it always makes it easier i.e. less planning and more support from your employer to 'navigate' the in-country admin systems.

this is a tricky one......depends on yer outlook, what you think about governments, health systems etc

ie I was keen to do everything properly at first, tried to swap my driving licence, it got sent back, methinks cos they couldn't be arsed to process it, as the system was swapping over to an online one.....now I'm glad I've still got my UK licence, fuk em

I went for an interview to try and get on the health system but it turned into such a fekkin nightmare I just gave up...

I now believe NOT being on the health system could well have saved my life as I might have been dragged into getting jabbed...

Again covid was such an education, not only into the brainwashing of society but fell out with even more 'local dipshits' mainly ex-pats who you think are your friends but errr yeah lol......if you're reading FUK OFF AND DIE YOU FAT CUNTS!!

I've got another mate who has just sold up cos she's decided that it's too expensive running a 'second home' but she was a fukwit who 'signed up for everything'......just don't man

Edited March 2 by nirvana

[Andersen]

4 hours ago, desertorchid said:

Got a job offer from an international school in HK in 2004 so accommodation etc was easy to sort.. Never looked back. Felt the writing was on the wall in the UK , even back then and knew my relationship with the UK was over. Never returning. Would recommend to anyone, but obviously need the ground work of training/ experience before job offer comes your way. Probably too late once you're in your 40's/50's also.

I'm seeing people at all stages of life moving overseas (Southern Europe) - teens/20s doing unskilled work mainly for the overseas experience, middle aged esp online work, 50+ "Financially inactive" while counting down to pensions (private pensions start age 55), retired... 

Speaking English is a huge bonus in most cases as it's usable in so many parts of Europe, it makes the move a lot easier (sometimes too easy as there's no need to learn the foreign language just to survive).

Moving to EU was more straightforward pre-Brexit but it's still do'able.

[MrXxxx]

1 hour ago, nirvana said:

problem is boss, the world moves so quickly now things change very quickly....

ie. a place in frogland (and I'd bought one before that too)

Before Brexit there was free movement in Europe

After Brexit the frogs were keen for folks to stay so one could get a 'residence card' for 5 or 10 years for free....and the process was simple and worked well to be fair to em, apart from a few queues lol

I was talking to a mate who says they're charging him 250 yuros a year now......or that might just be for the application fee

I was never into renting so didn't bother beforehand......that was a big mistake with the first place, I should never have bought that...........the second place was a bargain so errr yeah, if you buy at the right price you can always 'get away with it' if you have to 'escape again' cos the world is going tits up again, or you end up with some dickheads neighbors.....which can happen after you move in as well of course!!!!

I had a mate from Paris who moved to the cuntryside but he fell out with his neighbors so bad he had to move again!

then the poor fukker was suffering from ill health and I think the daft bastard took a clotshot or 2 cos he ignored my advice

anyways, bon courage

and on that positive note! :-)))...I know what you mean about the Brexit situation, if only I had been forward thinking/acted a bit more quickly I may have saved myself a lot of hassle now! :-(

[DTM]

Guadeloupe. I looked at this quite seriously. The stunning beachfront homes you see in Death in Paradise cost a million, but a small detached can be had for 150k. You'd need to learn French. If you're in IT, they're looking for people.

[MrXxxx]

57 minutes ago, nirvana said:

this is a tricky one......depends on yer outlook, what you think about governments, health systems etc

ie I was keen to do everything properly at first, tried to swap my driving licence, it got sent back, methinks cos they couldn't be arsed to process it, as the system was swapping over to an online one.....now I'm glad I've still got my UK licence, fuk em

I went for an interview to try and get on the health system but it turned into such a fekkin nightmare I just gave up...

I now believe NOT being on the health system could well have saved my life as I might have been dragged into getting jabbed...

Again covid was such an education, not only into the brainwashing of society but fell out with even more 'local dipshits' mainly ex-pats who you think are your friends but errr yeah lol......if you're reading FUK OFF AND DIE YOU FAT CUNTS!!

I've got another mate who has just sold up cos she's decided that it's too expensive running a 'second home' but she was a fukwit who 'signed up for everything'......just don't man

Considering all of these aspects together, this is why I am starting to think that the original plan of moving permanently overseas, buying in the new country, and eventually getting residency/citizenship may not be the best way to go i.e. you will  always be an 'outsider'/not understand the system fully due to the language barrier....may be better to buy a cheap UK bolt-hole, rent overseas for 3-6 month periods, and 'live' in two [or more] countries, the obvious benefits being:

1. You still have access to all the UK services i.e. NHS etc for what they are worth now, and you can always get private medical  insurance if 'needs must'; if overseas full-time in most countries you are still likely to need to arrange/buy this private med anyway.

2. You would still get the state pension uplift; see post elsewhere on this forum for this issue.

3. You have a 'stop gap'/'way back' in UK if sudden ill health became an issue.

4. You understand the tax system better and so know how to optimise it i.e. pay as little tax as possible.

The only disadvantage is that you only maintain a single UK citizenship; shame about Brexit etc :-(

[nirvana]

18 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

may be better to buy a cheap UK bolt-hole, rent overseas for 3-6 month periods, and 'live' in two [or more] countries,

yup, if I was to 'start again' I'd just have 2 or 3 bolt holes in different parts of the world, for different seasons.......and keep off as many puter systems as poss

[MrXxxx]

10 minutes ago, nirvana said:

yup, if I was to 'start again' I'd just have 2 or 3 bolt holes in different parts of the world, for different seasons.......and keep off as many puter systems as poss

The thing is Nirv  wherever you are in the world/whatever you do, society has become so computer/registration focussed you cannot avoid it i.e. to do anything [job, benefits, housing] you have to make yourself 'visible' via an address/NH or Tax number, and so apart from being an illegal immigrant there is no way around it....try doing this without registering and the person you are dealing with goes into 'melt down' i.e. "The computer says X [however illogical it may be] so I cannot think for myself, and we have to do what it 'says'..."

[ccc]

1 hour ago, MrXxxx said:

Considering all of these aspects together, this is why I am starting to think that the original plan of moving permanently overseas, buying in the new country, and eventually getting residency/citizenship may not be the best way to go i.e. you will  always be an 'outsider'/not understand the system fully due to the language barrier....may be better to buy a cheap UK bolt-hole, rent overseas for 3-6 month periods, and 'live' in two [or more] countries, the obvious benefits being:

1. You still have access to all the UK services i.e. NHS etc for what they are worth now, and you can always get private medical  insurance if 'needs must'; if overseas full-time in most countries you are still likely to need to arrange/buy this private med anyway.

2. You would still get the state pension uplift; see post elsewhere on this forum for this issue.

3. You have a 'stop gap'/'way back' in UK if sudden ill health became an issue.

4. You understand the tax system better and so know how to optimise it i.e. pay as little tax as possible.

The only disadvantage is that you only maintain a single UK citizenship; shame about Brexit etc :-(

I think even how fooked the UK is here for the summer and somewhere else for November to April is a pretty decent plan. 

The problem with "bolt holes" is the idea of lock the key and just forget about it doesn't seem to exist in reality. I know a few with places overseas and it seems non stop work. 

Luckily I get to use the for almost nothing do I suppose thinking about it I'm rather fortunate. 

Get lots of friends and family with holiday homes they don't want sitting empty may be the best plan. 

[Yadda yadda yadda]

18 minutes ago, ccc said:

I think even how fooked the UK is here for the summer and somewhere else for November to April is a pretty decent plan. 

The problem with "bolt holes" is the idea of lock the key and just forget about it doesn't seem to exist in reality. I know a few with places overseas and it seems non stop work. 

Luckily I get to use the for almost nothing do I suppose thinking about it I'm rather fortunate. 

Get lots of friends and family with holiday homes they don't want sitting empty may be the best plan. 

A flat is probably best as a bolthole for security and maintenance reasons. I use my mate's villa in Spain each year and that needs a lot of upkeep. Never gets below freezing and they do use it a bit in winter. It is more stress for them rather than less. 

Anywhere in the west is just betting on being the slowest horse in the race to the glue factory. Like those seaside arcade machines you never know which one is going to speed up but none ever turn around. Anywhere in the east then you're the foreigner.

[MrXxxx]

23 minutes ago, ccc said:

I think even how fooked the UK is here for the summer and somewhere else for November to April is a pretty decent plan. 

I knew someone who did just that i.e. he ran a paragliding school in the UK and rented a stone cottage from the owners in the season [Apr-Sept], and then spent the winter in a ashram in India; the owners [I think they were friends] dropped the price in the winter as he wasn't using the place.

The issue with lock-up is security. Its nice to have a secluded place, but if you have somewhere in a residential area at least the neighbours can look-out whilst you are away...the alternative is that you come back to a 'Hostel for squatters/illegal immigrants/crack den/pot farm!...or find the whole place has been stripped of copper!

[Axeman123]

1 hour ago, ccc said:

I think even how fooked the UK is here for the summer and somewhere else for November to April is a pretty decent plan. 

Keeping a UK home and tax residency along with paying to keep a second home seems like the worst possible arrangement, at least to me.

Just early January to early April in the sun would be a real lifesaver if you wanted to stay based here in the UK. Lots of boomer pensioners have taken 8 week holidays every year to that end. Plenty of SE asian and S American countries are workable on the visa front, and could also be very cheap for a short term let on an apartment for that period each year.

As has already been said only apartments can offer "lock up and leave" convienience if you wanted to own (or long-term lease) the second home. I would rather lease each year rather than tie myself to one place each time, if doing the above scheme, although if you want to be there over Christmas the sums probably tilt the other way.

 

[Axeman123]

2 hours ago, MrXxxx said:

The thing is Nirv  wherever you are in the world/whatever you do, society has become so computer/registration focussed you cannot avoid it i.e. to do anything [job, benefits, housing] you have to make yourself 'visible' via an address/NH or Tax number, and so apart from being an illegal immigrant there is no way around it....try doing this without registering and the person you are dealing with goes into 'melt down' i.e. "The computer says X [however illogical it may be] so I cannot think for myself, and we have to do what it 'says'..."

Best option is an address for banks etc in a country where it is easy to come and go but not be a tax resident for spending ~180 days a year in country. A studio flat in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia* could cost under £4k year for example and you get 90 visa exempt stamp on arrival every time (in case you actually want to use it). You would then be free to roam about elsewhere on tourist visas. Panama City could serve a similar purpose in South America, and both are major airport hubs for travel too. You would have to count days though, and potentially travel elsewhere even when you didn't feel like it.

I don't know if there are any EU countries that both don't try and trap you in their tax net for spending ~180 days a year in country, and could be nice enough to spend that much time there.

* @nirvana's favourite country

[nirvana]

10 minutes ago, Axeman123 said:

A studio flat in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia*

aye.....shoulda gone to Taiwan......they do 90 days on entry too.......

Nam do 90 days on entry

lot to be said for spending half the year in the far east IF you can get away with it @MrXxxx

don't forget places like Japan are 90 days too, flippin expensive but beautiful amazing cuntry to visit....

my point is you can spends years toing and froing the far east and never get bored or even need a permanent residence over there

Edited March 2 by nirvana

[Axeman123]

3 minutes ago, nirvana said:

Taiwan......they do 90 days on entry too.......

There is a long ass ferry from near Shanghai accross the Yellow Sea to South Korea, and another shorter one from Busan South Korea to Fukoka Japan AIUI. Fly KL -> Shanghai for a few days  -> Ferry to S Korea for 90 days on entry -> Ferry to Japan for 90 days -> Fly to Taiwan for 90 days -> fly back to KL for 90 days on arrival. Only 3 flights, 2 ferries, and a lot of high speed rail for 9 months on the move. Shanghai China would be the only visa you would even need to apply for.

[nirvana]

1 minute ago, Axeman123 said:

and another shorter one from Busan South Korea to Fukoka Japan AIUI.

Fukuoka boss, yes I was there and I met some Koreans who had come off the ferry.....in fact I gave one of em a half bottle of whiskey someone had left in a Hostel fridge and he thought I was his best mate

But yeah so much to do over there........I met some Brits and a Kraut in Hanoi who'd managed to get visas for China

the kraut had a bit of a hard time getting his but I think the Brits got theirs in Chiang Mai quite easily

aye, so much to do, so little time

[Axeman123]

3 minutes ago, nirvana said:

the Brits got theirs in Chiang Mai quite easily

Everything available for a price in Thailand, especially if the visa agent is ethnic chinese with a cousin on the inside over there.

[MrXxxx]

26 minutes ago, nirvana said:

aye.....shoulda gone to Taiwan......they do 90 days on entry too.......

Nam do 90 days on entry

lot to be said for spending half the year in the far east IF you can get away with it @MrXxxx

don't forget places like Japan are 90 days too, flippin expensive but beautiful amazing cuntry to visit....

my point is you can spends years toing and froing the far east and never get bored or even need a permanent residence over there

Don't forget Georgia =1yr, and most of South/Central America=90 days visa free.

[ccc]

1 hour ago, Axeman123 said:

Best option is an address for banks etc in a country where it is easy to come and go but not be a tax resident for spending ~180 days a year in country. A studio flat in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia* could cost under £4k year for example and you get 90 visa exempt stamp on arrival every time (in case you actually want to use it). You would then be free to roam about elsewhere on tourist visas. Panama City could serve a similar purpose in South America, and both are major airport hubs for travel too. You would have to count days though, and potentially travel elsewhere even when you didn't feel like it.

I don't know if there are any EU countries that both don't try and trap you in their tax net for spending ~180 days a year in country, and could be nice enough to spend that much time there.

* @nirvana's favourite country

As long as geography ain't your strong point 

I love KL but it's pretty expensive. Pints are London prices. If you're lucky. 

[Axeman123]

6 minutes ago, ccc said:

As long as geography ain't your strong point 

Intrigued...

[ccc]

1 minute ago, Axeman123 said:

Intrigued...

I was being annoying. 

Panama ain't south America. 

Or was it the pints ? Best paid for hand job I've ever had in my life though ! 

 

[Axeman123]

Just now, ccc said:

Panama ain't south America. 

fair point, I should have said Latin America. My geography is fine, it is my grasp of the English language that is shakey.

[PETR4]

On 01/03/2024 at 08:38, MrXxxx said:

1. How did to move accommodation wise i.e. did you initially rent a place, and is so how did you find it?

2. What was the planning leading up to 1 above?

3. Did you initially look for a new full-time/Part-time/Temporary job in the new location to ease into the transition OR had you already retired/FIREd?

4. Did you have residency status OR did you initially just use a tourist visa?

5. What were your long-term plans regarding living there i.e. 6 months there/6 months UK OR residency status only OR work towards gaining full citizenship AND was this from a favourable position i.e. birth right or pre-Brexit entitlement?

I have tried to emmigrate from Blighty twice. First time to Brazil, the second to Dubai. Here are the answers to your questions:

Brazil

1. Initially rented, then bought a cheap apartment.

2. Inspired by the James Bond film "Moon Raker". Then went for a 4 month stay; then a year later a 2 week visit; then I worked in the UK and had language tuition and made friends in the Brazil ex-pat community for about 6 years before moving. I felt prepared when I moved over.

3. I looked for work. I was in my late 20's. I naively thought it would be as easy to find work for me in Brazil as Brazilians to find work in the UK. I was wrong.

4. I went on a tourist visa.

5. I expected to meet someone and settle down. The error was in meeting rather too many pretty girls and being spoilt for choice. The kicker was economic. After a year and half I realised the loss of life time earnings by staying in Brazil for the weather and girls was a bit too hedonistic, and living in the UK I could visit Brazil anytime time, whereas the oppposite was not true.

Dubai

1. Rented

2. Very little. Also in my 20's I thought it looked like a good idea at the time!

3. I responsed to an advert in the Times from a financial advisers firm called DeVere. The offered me a commision only job selling financial products to ex-pats. How hard could that be? I got on the plane, at my own expense...

4. Tourist visa with a view to changing to a work visa one i was settled.

5. To make as much money as possible. However it quickly became apparent this wasn't going to happen. I looked at the nascent Dubai Financial Center but it was tiny compared to London and there were no jobs available in the time frame I needed before my money ran out.

I spent the rest of my career in financial services in the City. Now in my 50's I don't regret my opportunities to emmigrate. If my approach had been different or I had better luck it could of been very different. I've been a regular vistor to Brazil for over 30 years now and have never had a bad trip  I did visit Dubai once more for a social but I never considered living there again.

I don't think I'll ever leave blighty permanently but winters abroad are deffinitely on the cards in the future for Mrs PETR4 and I.

Edited March 3 by PETR4

[MrXxxx]

6 minutes ago, PETR4 said:

5. I expected to meet someone and settle down. The error was in meeting rather too many pretty girls and being spoilt for choice.

I know what you mean, even the 'larger' ones exuded sex appeal...if only the UK versions could 'learn a leaf out of their books'! :-)

[MrXxxx]

Even more reason to 'reside' in the UK rather than overseas?

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/why-have-i-been-blocked-from-putting-money-in-my-isa-i-live-abroad-but-still-pay-uk-tax/ar-BB1jlyDn

...or go full 'hog' and get Cyprian citizenship; Cyprus allows dual citizenship, has a similar Income tax rate, lower cost of living AND has a higher personal allowance [19500 Euro/£16680]. This said, unlike the UK it does charge IT on worldwide income, although this is in the 'pipeline' for the UK  as well.