Where to Migrate to?

[No One]

I'm resurecting this thread again. After the last energy bill I've paid I've started thinking of leaving again, and I'm thinking Dubai.

 

Anyone here working in Dubai? Any pointers?

[nirvana]

7 minutes ago, No One said:

I'm thinking Dubai.

 

sounds like hell on earth........why??

[No One]

Just now, nirvana said:

sounds like hell on earth........why??

High Wages [If experienced]

No Income Tax at all

Weather is not shit

Cheap Energy

Safe[r]

[nirvana]

4 minutes ago, No One said:

High Wages [If experienced]

No Income Tax at all

Weather is not shit

Cheap Energy

Safe[r]

it's an Islamic state and the weather sux ass....

Last time I was in an Islamic state ie Malaysia it was, let's say 'fekkin shite on the whole'.....

In the summer, the weather in Dubai is very hot and humid, with temperatures exceeding 43 °C (109 °F) mainly in the months of July and August. The sea temperature could also reach 37 °C (99 °F), with humidity averaging over 90%. Rainfall in Dubai is infrequent and does not last for a long period.

[Virgil Caine]

I was interested to read that there is an inverse relationship between unemployment and emigration. Surprisingly, the better the UK job market the more likely people are to leave. Apparently Brits still mainly choose English speaking countries for emigration apart from Spain.

[MrXxxx]

OK, so this comment is aimed at those who have actually 'made the leap'  i.e. @WICAO, rather than the rest of us who 'Talk the talk' but do not 'Walk the walk'...can those Dosbodders who have actually made the move comment on the practicalities of doing it, such as:

1. How did to move accommodation wise i.e. did you initially rent a place, and is so how did you find it?

2. What was the planning leading up to 1 above?

3. Did you initially look for a new full-time/Part-time/Temporary job in the new location to ease into the transition OR had you already retired/FIREd?

4. Did you have residency status OR did you initially just use a tourist visa?

5. What were your long-term plans regarding living there i.e. 6 months there/6 months UK OR residency status only OR work towards gaining full citizenship AND was this from a favourable position i.e. birth right or pre-Brexit entitlement?

I have contemplated leaving the UK for a couple of years now but probably like a lot of others haven' progressed any further/am in a bit of a stasis about taking the next step....

[Alex]

I've done it twice: UK to NZ in 2008, NZ to Berlin in 2017. Both times with family. I'm self-employed so work wasn't much of an issue.

It's hard work. I'm not going to answer all your questions as they're mostly practical and there are websites/forums to help with that. The harder bit is emotional/cultural/whatever you want to call it.

Emigrating was worth it both times, and/because it was hard work and a major learning experience. Do it, but don't expect it to be easy unless you're single and 20-something.

[MrXxxx]

4 hours ago, Alex said:

I've done it twice: UK to NZ in 2008, NZ to Berlin in 2017. Both times with family. I'm self-employed so work wasn't much of an issue.

It's hard work. I'm not going to answer all your questions as they're mostly practical and there are websites/forums to help with that. The harder bit is emotional/cultural/whatever you want to call it.

Emigrating was worth it both times, and/because it was hard work and a major learning experience. Do it, but don't expect it to be easy unless you're single and 20-something.

Thanks, and so what made you come back? I am assuming you are now back in the UK.

[Alex]

1 hour ago, MrXxxx said:

Thanks, and so what made you come back? I am assuming you are now back in the UK.

Nope. Still in Krautland. Will stay until my teenage kids finish school but I'm already eyeing up the next move. Maybe Latin America? No serious research done yet.

[Democorruptcy]

5 hours ago, Alex said:

I've done it twice: UK to NZ in 2008, NZ to Berlin in 2017. Both times with family. I'm self-employed so work wasn't much of an issue.

It's hard work. I'm not going to answer all your questions as they're mostly practical and there are websites/forums to help with that. The harder bit is emotional/cultural/whatever you want to call it.

Emigrating was worth it both times, and/because it was hard work and a major learning experience. Do it, but don't expect it to be easy unless you're single and 20-something.

What made you leave NZ for Berlin?

[Alex]

Just now, Democorruptcy said:

What made you leave NZ for Berlin?

Kids getting older. NZ is lovely for young kids (we had a small farm or "lifestyle block") but terrible for teenagers. Boring, low-aspiration and life feels like it's happening 10,000 miles away.

NZ has one of the highest rates of teenage suicide in the developed world. I had close personal experience of that. Once you've gone to a couple of funerals of teenagers who killed themselves, it becomes hard to ignore. Berlin's great for teens and 20-somethings, although some get stuck here and never grow up.

[MrXxxx]

30 minutes ago, Alex said:

Nope. Still in Krautland. Will stay until my teenage kids finish school but I'm already eyeing up the next move. Maybe Latin America? No serious research done yet.

I liked Germany when I was there, people seemed so much more polite...or perhaps I didn't understand when they were being rude :-)))...as for SA what a contrast to Germany, especially if you compare the Brazilians with the Germans, two ends of the same spectrum!

[Alex]

9 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

I liked Germany when I was there, people seemed so much more polite...or perhaps I didn't understand when they were being rude :-)))...as for SA what a contrast to Germany, especially if you compare the Brazilians with the Germans, two ends of the same spectrum!

Agreed on both points although Berliners are a rule to themselves. They have a reputation for being rude but actually they're mostly just blunt, and are warm once you get to know them (many foreigners don't bother). And yes, I know a few Brazilians - massive contrast. That would be part of the appeal: the change. The Germans do terrify me a little with their slavish adherence to authority. I'd gladly leave that behind.

[Funn3r]

7 hours ago, MrXxxx said:

4. Did you have residency status OR did you initially just use a tourist visa?

Son earns a lot and is sick of tax and is sick of UK in many other ways which would be well-recognised on dosbods. Has currently picked Spain as a better place to live. BUT trying to get one of their limited types of residence visa which is available to him (he has no favourable factors as you call them) is next to impossible so keeps coming back every time his 90-day allowance runs out. My point being don't just choose the country you feel like most but also think about the penetrability of their bureaucracy.

@Alex Berlin is a fab place and would be my personal northern Europe choice.

[MrXxxx]

1 hour ago, Funn3r said:

Son earns a lot and is sick of tax and is sick of UK in many other ways which would be well-recognised on dosbods. Has currently picked Spain as a better place to live. BUT trying to get one of their limited types of residence visa which is available to him (he has no favourable factors as you call them) is next to impossible so keeps coming back every time his 90-day allowance runs out. My point being don't just choose the country you feel like most but also think about the penetrability of their bureaucracy.

@Alex Berlin is a fab place and would be my personal northern Europe choice.

Also if you want to go down the citizenship route Spain could be an issue in the future, as they don't offer Dual Citizenship [so you would have to choose between Spanish or British].

[Funn3r]

4 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

Also if you want to go down the citizenship route Spain could be an issue in the future, as they don't offer Dual Citizenship [so you would have to choose between Spanish or British].

A lot of countries like that. I was nearly born in Germany so had a look at what would have happened in a parallel universe where I (may have) qualified for a German passport. As far as I can make out no country feels any obligation to notify any other country when you obtain its citizenship. In other words having dual citizenship is entirely possible in practice and nobody cares.

[MrXxxx]

3 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

A lot of countries like that. I was nearly born in Germany so had a look at what would have happened in a parallel universe where I (may have) qualified for a German passport. As far as I can make out no country feels any obligation to notify any other country when you obtain its citizenship. In other words having dual citizenship is entirely possible in practice and nobody cares.

Unless of course you get stopped/caught going through immigration with both passports OR as in the case of another Covid lockdown in the UK you try to leave on say your 'Spanish' passport, and their UK 'computer says no'.

[Funn3r]

5 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

Unless of course you get stopped/caught going through immigration with both passports OR as in the case of another Covid lockdown in the UK you try to leave on say your 'Spanish' passport, and their UK 'computer says no'.

Taking to people with dual passports it really seems nobody is bothered despite What The Rules Might Say.

The worst you can get is a telling off for causing them extra admin; @ccc is our expert reporter for this one (not that his has no-dual rules but it's same in practice from what I hear.)

Edited March 1 by Funn3r
typo

[ccc]

5 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

Taking to people with dual passports it really seems nobody is bothered despite What The Rules Might Say.

The worst you can get is a telling off for causing them extra admin; @ccc is our expert reporter for this one (not that his has no-dual rules but it's same in practice from what I hear.)

I've been in and out of the UK on Irish and UK passports numerous times. Last time I applied for my UK passport I forgot - genuinely - to tick the other passports box. 

No issues. 

I've also been into and out of Romania on both and the border bloke pulled me up however didnt really give a toss.

Only anecdotes. 

 

[WICAO]

19 hours ago, MrXxxx said:

OK, so this comment is aimed at those who have actually 'made the leap'  i.e. @WICAO, rather than the rest of us who 'Talk the talk' but do not 'Walk the walk'...can those Dosbodders who have actually made the move comment on the practicalities of doing it, such as:

1. How did to move accommodation wise i.e. did you initially rent a place, and is so how did you find it?

2. What was the planning leading up to 1 above?

3. Did you initially look for a new full-time/Part-time/Temporary job in the new location to ease into the transition OR had you already retired/FIREd?

4. Did you have residency status OR did you initially just use a tourist visa?

5. What were your long-term plans regarding living there i.e. 6 months there/6 months UK OR residency status only OR work towards gaining full citizenship AND was this from a favourable position i.e. birth right or pre-Brexit entitlement?

I have contemplated leaving the UK for a couple of years now but probably like a lot of others haven' progressed any further/am in a bit of a stasis about taking the next step....

Our journey has been well shared on ToS, this site and my blog but to your specific questions:

1. We always planned to rent for 2 years to make sure we wanted to stay and also to learn where we wanted to be.  Cyprus was brilliant with a villa, a pool and sea views for a lot less than we were paying in the South East.  Australia we managed a 4 bedroom house walking distance from trails and a beach.  It helps when you don't have to live close to your work...
2. I wanted financial independence before we went so planning was extensive at 13 years.  I always knew I wanted out of the UK as I just can't stand the winters.  Give me a beer garden on a summers afternoon anytime but the winter,  Nah.  Lots of 'holidays' to target countries/regions including Portugal, Spain, Italy, Malta, Cyprus and Australia.  Once we short listed those 'holidays' became very targeted covering multiple seasons and included a lot of cost modelling to understand what each country would cost to live a good life.
3.  I FIRE'd to move to Cyprus.  By the time we moved to Australia I was 100% WFH a few days a week.  I transported that work with me.
4. Cyprus was a rushed move and register (prove self sufficiency, healthcare, etc) as a resident pre-Brexit.  In hindsight I should have FIRE'd, decompressed somewhat, then moved as it was a lot of change all at once.  Australia involved official Visa's.
5. Long term plans were indefinite stay but with a caveat that we would stay 2 years before discussing if we were happy.  We broke that rule in Cyprus after around 6 months.  That in hindsight was a big mistake and I'd suggest we'd still be there if we followed the 2 year rule we set before going.  Australia we learnt and did follow our 2 year rule and never say never but we can see ourselves staying here forever.  Citizenship will soon be possible and because we're English speakers plus came in on 'proper visas' it'll be not much more than a 'test' plus a bit of non-painful box ticking.

Edited March 2 by WICAO

[Bien Pensant]

On 29/02/2024 at 11:10, No One said:

I'm resurecting this thread again. After the last energy bill I've paid I've started thinking of leaving again, and I'm thinking Dubai.

 

Anyone here working in Dubai? Any pointers?

Can't give any useful advice myself but Doug Casey, The International Man, who's been advocating routine migration as a way to escape serfdom since the '70s, always says that you want to go somewhere where you have the advantage.

There's no point going somewhere where there are already loads of people with whatever skills you have and similar amounts of capital.

So , what can you do, where do they need it but don't already have it?

[desertorchid]

20 hours ago, MrXxxx said:

OK, so this comment is aimed at those who have actually 'made the leap'  i.e. @WICAO, rather than the rest of us who 'Talk the talk' but do not 'Walk the walk'...can those Dosbodders who have actually made the move comment on the practicalities of doing it, such as:

1. How did to move accommodation wise i.e. did you initially rent a place, and is so how did you find it?

2. What was the planning leading up to 1 above?

3. Did you initially look for a new full-time/Part-time/Temporary job in the new location to ease into the transition OR had you already retired/FIREd?

4. Did you have residency status OR did you initially just use a tourist visa?

5. What were your long-term plans regarding living there i.e. 6 months there/6 months UK OR residency status only OR work towards gaining full citizenship AND was this from a favourable position i.e. birth right or pre-Brexit entitlement?

I have contemplated leaving the UK for a couple of years now but probably like a lot of others haven' progressed any further/am in a bit of a stasis about taking the next step....

Got a job offer from an international school in HK in 2004 so accommodation etc was easy to sort.. Never looked back. Felt the writing was on the wall in the UK , even back then and knew my relationship with the UK was over. Never returning. Would recommend to anyone, but obviously need the ground work of training/ experience before job offer comes your way. Probably too late once you're in your 40's/50's also.

[MrXxxx]

4 hours ago, WICAO said:

Our journey has been well shared on ToS

Thanks for your answers @WICAO, yes I followed/looked at your original FIRED website over a number of years and saw you progress

4 hours ago, WICAO said:

I always knew I wanted out of the UK as I just can't stand the winters. 

This is me, whilst I like the seasons I can't as I age being happy with winters in the UK, hence looking at making a permanent move somewhere warmer OR maybe having a smaller place/lock-up in the UK so that I can spend the winters renting a place somewhere warm.

4 hours ago, WICAO said:

Lots of 'holidays' to target countries/regions including Portugal, Spain, Italy, Malta, Cyprus and Australia.

Can you give some feedback on what you liked/didn't like about these places, especially Portugal.

4 hours ago, WICAO said:

We broke that rule in Cyprus after around 6 months.  That in hindsight was a big mistake and I'd suggest we'd still be there if we followed the 2 year rule we set before going. 

So you think it needed at least two year 'settling in' time to get over the initial culture shock period?

4 hours ago, WICAO said:

because we're English speakers

I think this can make a major difference in the 'settling in' period as well.

 

Must go back and take another look at your original website...did you ever publish your book on this; I think I remember you considering such an idea.

Thanks once again,  now I just need to a) get my 'act' together, b) start looking into the extent of planning required; as @Alexhas suggested, and then c) take the 'leap of faith' rather than pontificating and finding in 12 months I haven't moved any further along my journey!

[MrXxxx]

3 hours ago, desertorchid said:

Got a job offer from an international school in HK in 2004 so accommodation etc was easy to sort..

I think if you can get such a situation [I know from personal experience] that it always makes it easier i.e. less planning and more support from your employer to 'navigate' the in-country admin systems.

[Alex]

16 hours ago, Funn3r said:

@Alex Berlin is a fab place and would be my personal northern Europe choice.

Agreed with one caveat: the winters are fucking awful. It's just grey for 4 months. Worse than most parts of the UK in that respect. Have to factor a winter holiday into your expense planning.