Property crash, just maybe it really is different this time (Part 3)

[Bobthebuilder]

2 minutes ago, onlyme said:

As a cash buyer you are in a fantastic position, don't squander it! 

Great advice.

When I was looking for my current place after each viewing the estate agent would take me back to their office to try to get me to get finance through them. After a free coffee and listening to 10 minutes of the spiel I would then inform them that there was no need as I was a cash buyer, They suddenly change their tune and start showing you details of cheaper places they have on the books.

They are scum, so treat them as such.

[spunko]

17 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

As a cash buyer I’m in a good position but there’s lots of cash buyers in NI these days so I doubt I’m the only cash buyer bidding on this.

Are you sure? I would have thought with recent economics woes the number was drying up.

[onlyme]

Just now, spunko said:

Are you sure? I would have thought with recent economics woes the number was drying up.

NI does seem to be a massive outlier at the moment, You'd expect NI to be well behind the curve and last to be affected but still very stubbornly resilient it seems.

[JoeDavola]

2 minutes ago, spunko said:

Are you sure? I would have thought with recent economics woes the number was drying up.

Nope. No shortage of them in NI - last two places my parents viewed they were outbid by cash buyers at around the £350k mark. One house had 3 cash buyers all bidding for it.

[JoeDavola]

2 minutes ago, onlyme said:

NI does seem to be a massive outlier at the moment, You'd expect NI to be well behind the curve and last to be affected but still very stubbornly resilient it seems.

And the economic woes have no effect on the cash buyers (yet) - the cash is all sitting there looking for a home regardless of the economy.

[Bobthebuilder]

5 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Nope. No shortage of them in NI - last two places my parents viewed they were outbid by cash buyers at around the £350k mark. One house had 3 cash buyers all bidding for it.

Never tell an estate agent you are a cash buyer before they think they have you on the fishing hook, otherwise they will just bid the price up with other interested parties using the "cash buyer offers" tactic.

They are fucking salesmen.

Edit to say, when I said take proof of funds with you, I meant as a bargaining tool, not a brag during the viewing. Sorry I think I may have confused the issue some what.

Edited February 28 by Bobthebuilder

[JoeDavola]

6 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

Never tell an estate agent you are a cash buyer before they think they have you on the fishing hook, otherwise they will just bid the price up with other interested parties using the "cash buyer offers" tactic.

They are fucking salesmen.

Edit to say, when I said take proof of funds with you, I meant as a bargaining tool, not a brag during the viewing. Sorry I think I may have confused the issue some what.

Yes they’re all scum. I will admit I did say cash buyer this time around but will keep my trap shut in future. 

At the very least they’ll know when I’m bidding as my parents have had two sets of bids refused recently because the cash buyers matched them and the seller wanted the cash buyer.

[Bobthebuilder]

3 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

the seller wanted the cash buyer.

No real difference between cash buyer and mortgage in principal really.

I used cash buyer as a tool to get my current house, but during the legal process got a 60% mortgage on it. Makes no difference to the seller as long as you are chain free.

Play them at their own game.

[onlyme]

19 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

No real difference between cash buyer and mortgage in principal really.

I used cash buyer as a tool to get my current house, but during the legal process got a 60% mortgage on it. Makes no difference to the seller as long as you are chain free.

Play them at their own game.

Maybe just use the term funds available, written best offer. Outside of the viewing as very easy to make a rash decision on the spot if nothing else. Being chain free is the key if the market is gummed up - the agent may have a whole chain (with one or more properties of theirs involved) they are trying to complete and you may be the key - under those cirumstances they will apply lots of pressure.

Edited February 28 by onlyme

[Plan-b]

According to Charlie (MHWC) apparently there can be problems for cash buyers when the sellers Estate Agent has an inhouse mortgage broker. Its seems the EA might not always be keen to pass on cash offers very quickly or at all in some cases as the EA would prefer to get you mortgaged through them so they get the associated fees and kickbacks etc.

I believe this practice is possibly illegal but can be hard to prove and mainly affects the larger national EAs. His advice is to avoid an EA with an inhouse broker, not easy for a buyer, or maybe contact the seller to notify them you've made an offer to the EA.

[wherebee]

7 hours ago, spunko said:

Anecdote. Just viewed a brand new conversion of an old barn. Builders went bust last year and it's being sold by the receiver. It's 90% finished but the fittings are shit, and loads of corners have been cut. Really cheap feel to it, kitchen from Howdens budget range, patio looks like it was laid by an effnik, doors are cheap veneer and don't even close properly etc. Felt like they'd raided Barratt Homes suppliers list.

I told the EA I wasn't interested unless they were happy to accept an offer around a certain mark, which would be a -23% drop on the current asking price. Quick ballpark figures you'd need to spend another ~£30k getting it up to a decent standard.

I was expecting to be laughed at, but the EA said they may consider it i.e. they're desperate to offload.

 

I have found that if you explain what you need to spend to bring the property up to the usefulness you need, it often helps the EA explain to the vendors why a lower price is needed.  For example, if a rewire is needed and will cost 10k, that's a talking point, rather than 'the buyer wants 10k off'.

[wherebee]

50 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

No real difference between cash buyer and mortgage in principal really.

I used cash buyer as a tool to get my current house, but during the legal process got a 60% mortgage on it. Makes no difference to the seller as long as you are chain free.

Play them at their own game.

The difference is a) no valuation by a Bank which might throw a spanner in the works b) no chain at all which might slow things down

A cash buyer SHOULD be top of the tree, but estate agents often are on financial rewards from brokers, etc, sometimes under the table.

[spygirl]

20 minutes ago, Plan-b said:

According to Charlie (MHWC) apparently there can be problems for cash buyers when the sellers Estate Agent has an inhouse mortgage broker. Its seems the EA might not always be keen to pass on cash offers very quickly or at all in some cases as the EA would prefer to get you mortgaged through them so they get the associated fees and kickbacks etc.

I believe this practice is possibly illegal but can be hard to prove and mainly affects the larger national EAs. His advice is to avoid an EA with an inhouse broker, not easy for a buyer, or maybe contact the seller to notify them you've made an offer to the EA.

Nah.

Chains have been falling apart for ages.

Anyone actually putting fresh money into the housing market will get grabbed by both hands.

Trying to eek a few 100 extra commission pales to the commission on sale, otherwise hit to reputation of unsold stock.

[XswampyX]

3 minutes ago, wherebee said:

A cash buyer SHOULD be top of the tree, but estate agents often are on financial rewards from brokers, etc, sometimes under the table.

Quite.

The old "Have you though about renting it out? By some un-believable chance of good fortune for you we have a full letting agents service here in the branch. Let me see £1,000 a month, possibly £2,000 if we market it right....." 

[onlyme]

Useful presentation of LR data by city / county,

 

 

[Frank Hovis]

12 hours ago, Bobthebuilder said:

Never tell an estate agent you are a cash buyer before they think they have you on the fishing hook, otherwise they will just bid the price up with other interested parties using the "cash buyer offers" tactic.

They are fucking salesmen.

Edit to say, when I said take proof of funds with you, I meant as a bargaining tool, not a brag during the viewing. Sorry I think I may have confused the issue some what.

 

In buying this one ten years ago I offered full price and mentioned that I was a cash buyer and that was that; offer accepted. They were after a quick sale and I had just provided it.

I didn't need to demonstrate proof of funds to anyone at any stage, just write cheques for the deposit and then balance.

Rather than having an honest face it was possibly my local connections: I lived locally, had met the EA a couple of times socially, and the owner of the solicitors is a family friend.

All meaning that I was highly unlikely to be misrepresenting myself.

 

 

Edited February 29 by Frank Hovis

[onlyme]

Some very unusual variations in the LR data - from above PDF, but also shows the overall peakiness around 2022 and the proceeding falls.

Just a quick eyeballing of it, the market for flats looks significantl;y different to other house types the last few years, whether pandemic related - couped up in a flat more incentive to move out into a more suburban area into semi / detached place? Lack of investor buyers?

Holding steadier than the rest seem looks to be semis.

Also obviously lots of local / regional variation, including some areas still showing gains for some property types.

 

Edited February 29 by onlyme

[onlyme]

Seems you might need to play the I've got the cash in my back pocket card wisely depending on which type of agent you are dealing with!

Get the impression these are the ones that tend to overprice.  I suppose with limited time to dedicate to proptery searches and viewings spending more properly scouring the books of the independents and buildnig up a relationship with those might be a good move.

 

[HousePriceMania]

1 hour ago, Option5 said:

Norfolk: Trett Phillips estate agency ceases trading.

An estate agency with offices across Norfolk has ceased trading, after what it describes as rising costs and ever-more rigid compliance requirements.

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/24153725.norfolk-trett-phillips-estate-agency-ceases-trading/

 

They can't seem to bring themselves to say that they cant sell any houses at the insane asking prices they themselves have promised idiots.

First of many this year I'd wager/hope.

Edited February 29 by HousePriceMania

[onlyme]

Canada No.1 target this time.

[belfastchild]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68436934

One for @JoeDavola and the EA in trouble thread. Propertypal over here is the aggregator for NI estate agents. They put the prices up, EAs say they will remove listings from midnight tonight.

Propertypal does a lot of shilling on FB etc.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out, if the EAs end up paying up (if they even can?) or propertypal backs down or a combination of everything. Either way it means selling and listings fees go up regardless.

[JoeDavola]

17 minutes ago, belfastchild said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68436934

One for @JoeDavola and the EA in trouble thread. Propertypal over here is the aggregator for NI estate agents. They put the prices up, EAs say they will remove listings from midnight tonight.

Propertypal does a lot of shilling on FB etc.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out, if the EAs end up paying up (if they even can?) or propertypal backs down or a combination of everything. Either way it means selling and listings fees go up regardless.

PropertyPal is the one I’d use the most but the way they’re getting on these days with their Facebook posts is irritating as fuck.

[belfastchild]

9 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

PropertyPal is the one I’d use the most but the way they’re getting on these days with their Facebook posts is irritating as fuck.

Its why your next viewing has 20 booked. Mostly fucking time wasters going to see their forever home.
I wish they would stop showing me 400-500k houses with no fucking garage or worse, room to park 2 cars. What fucking use is that to me?

[JoeDavola]

11 minutes ago, belfastchild said:

Its why your next viewing has 20 booked. Mostly fucking time wasters going to see their forever home.
I wish they would stop showing me 400-500k houses with no fucking garage or worse, room to park 2 cars. What fucking use is that to me?

Yeah it’s just house porn for wimmin really. Also sick of ‘amazing’/‘stunning’ houses that are really a wee terrace in the east with an IKEA makeover and a £200k+ price tag

Ill have to block them on Facebook actually as I’m genuinely sick of seeing it.

[JoeDavola]

14 minutes ago, belfastchild said:

400-500k houses with no fucking garage or worse, room to park 2 cars. What fucking use is that to me?

What fucking use is it to anyone with 400k+ to spend…