How does Buy to Let END!

[spygirl]

Every night I can't sleep due to the growth of another NTL being burnt by the LL

Don't these fuckwits realise that BoE , Treasury etc want them fucking gone?

[eek]

Just seen on twitter that it looks like Fergus Wilson is in court tomorrow for a contempt of court commitment hearing so he’s off to jail…

 

[Andersen]

Death by 1000 cuts - and having to pay for a selective landlord registration scheme. 

https://www.dosbods.co.uk/topic/27647-costs-of-selective-licensing-scheme-the-breakdown/

credit to @sarahbell for the link.

Edited March 13 by Andersen

[spygirl]

The buy-to-let we bought in 2007 is still in negative equity: How do we get out? DAVID HOLLINGWORTH replies

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-13210077/The-buy-let-bought-2007-negative-equity-DAVID-HOLLINGWORTH-replies.html?ico=mol_desktop_home-newtab&molReferrerUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fhome%2Findex.html&_ga=2.68805717.550789933.1710759138-1153876054.1674210976&_gl=1*1ogmddx*_ga*MTE1Mzg3NjA1NC4xNjc0MjEwOTc2*_ga_XE0XLFFF16*MTcxMDgzODgyMC44OC4xLjE3MTA4MzkxNTkuMC4wLjA.

My wife and I purchased a buy-to-let property in 2007 and it has turned out to be the worst financial decision of our lives. 

We bought it for £155,000 with a £35,000 deposit, leaving us with a £120,000 mortgage. But the recession hit shortly after, and its value plummeted to £75,000. 

The mortgage was initially interest-only but three years ago we moved to a repayment mortgage to try and reduce the debt. We have never missed a payment.

This property continues to drain all our finances and I cannot express to you the negative impact this has had on our lives. It has given us many sleepless nights. 

The mortgage rate has recently gone up to 8.74 per cent (£949.07 per month) which is no longer sustainable for us. As we are in negative equity, we can't switch to another bank.

 

We also pay around £150 in management and agent fees, and the rent we make from the property is £500 per month.

We've considered handing back the keys to the bank but as we still have a mortgage on the home we live in, we are concerned about the impact on our credit file.

That mortgage has an outstanding balance of £94,000 and is currently on a 1.94 per cent rate (£702.84 per month). The deal ends in July. It is 25 per cent loan-to-value.

Should we refinance our own home to try and get the LTV down on the other nightmare mortgage? Could we repay small lump sums to try and clear it? 

 

Crossing with Properdee thread ....

There are a lot of places in the North here prices have been stuck at 2004 nominal prices.

The aove is pure - We select you a properdee portfolio ..... 155k in 07 for a property that rents at 500 is fucking nuts.

 

The recent IR uptk has collapsed the number of sales, already on the floor, even furth.

Market is submerged.

Assuming mortgage rates/SVR stays 5%-6% then theres going to be at least 30% off prices, taking them back to late 90s, which also takes them back to late 80s nominal prices.

 

Edited March 19 by spygirl

[spygirl]

Id add - 

This is the first time Ive seen 'handing keys back to bank' appear in this down cycle.

Cos thatll fix it ....

 

 

 

[Talking Monkey]

2 hours ago, spygirl said:

The buy-to-let we bought in 2007 is still in negative equity: How do we get out? DAVID HOLLINGWORTH replies

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-13210077/The-buy-let-bought-2007-negative-equity-DAVID-HOLLINGWORTH-replies.html?ico=mol_desktop_home-newtab&molReferrerUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fhome%2Findex.html&_ga=2.68805717.550789933.1710759138-1153876054.1674210976&_gl=1*1ogmddx*_ga*MTE1Mzg3NjA1NC4xNjc0MjEwOTc2*_ga_XE0XLFFF16*MTcxMDgzODgyMC44OC4xLjE3MTA4MzkxNTkuMC4wLjA.

My wife and I purchased a buy-to-let property in 2007 and it has turned out to be the worst financial decision of our lives. 

We bought it for £155,000 with a £35,000 deposit, leaving us with a £120,000 mortgage. But the recession hit shortly after, and its value plummeted to £75,000. 

The mortgage was initially interest-only but three years ago we moved to a repayment mortgage to try and reduce the debt. We have never missed a payment.

This property continues to drain all our finances and I cannot express to you the negative impact this has had on our lives. It has given us many sleepless nights. 

The mortgage rate has recently gone up to 8.74 per cent (£949.07 per month) which is no longer sustainable for us. As we are in negative equity, we can't switch to another bank.

 

We also pay around £150 in management and agent fees, and the rent we make from the property is £500 per month.

We've considered handing back the keys to the bank but as we still have a mortgage on the home we live in, we are concerned about the impact on our credit file.

That mortgage has an outstanding balance of £94,000 and is currently on a 1.94 per cent rate (£702.84 per month). The deal ends in July. It is 25 per cent loan-to-value.

Should we refinance our own home to try and get the LTV down on the other nightmare mortgage? Could we repay small lump sums to try and clear it? 

 

Crossing with Properdee thread ....

There are a lot of places in the North here prices have been stuck at 2004 nominal prices.

The aove is pure - We select you a properdee portfolio ..... 155k in 07 for a property that rents at 500 is fucking nuts.

 

The recent IR uptk has collapsed the number of sales, already on the floor, even furth.

Market is submerged.

Assuming mortgage rates/SVR stays 5%-6% then theres going to be at least 30% off prices, taking them back to late 90s, which also takes them back to late 80s nominal prices.

 

Did stuff like that really happen in 07 ie some houses going down 50%

[spygirl]

8 minutes ago, Talking Monkey said:

Did stuff like that really happen in 07 ie some houses going down 50%

Address:	131 Bruce Glazier Terrace, Shotton Colliery, Durham, DH6 2PP
Type:	Semi-detached
Tenure:	Freehold
New build:	No
Links:	Price map  (Durham)  (Shotton Colliery)
Transaction type:	Additional price paid transaction

Registered sales:

Date Sold	Price Paid	Nominal change	Real change
08 Nov 2023	£56,000	-35.6%	-64.6%
30 Aug 2007	£87,000 *	164.0%	103.2%
23 Jan 1998	£32,950 *	n/a	n/a

You have to remember how much lending was happening 2002-2007, and how much of of it was total fucking junking junk

We- the UK - are still livng with the overhang.

 

[spygirl]

The xmaple was just one I went to look for and found in seconds.

I coud ful this thread with posts on 'portfolio' properdee sold to dumb Southern LL from 2002,

I sort of feel I missed out a bit.

Address:	112 Thornton Street, Middlesbrough, TS3 6PL
Type:	Terrace
Tenure:	Freehold
New build:	No
Links:	Price map  (Middlesbrough)
Transaction type:	Additional price paid transaction

Registered sales:

Date Sold	Price Paid	Nominal change	Real change
05 Jan 2024	£60,000	-15.5%	-54.1%
18 Apr 2007	£71,000 *	n/a	n/a

 

 

 

This ones a new build rather than terrace - 

Address:	Flat 5, 7 Osborne Terrace, Newcastle Upon Tyne, NE2 1NE
Type:	Flat
Tenure:	Leasehold
New build:	No
Links:	Price map  (Newcastle Upon Tyne)
Transaction type:	Standard price paid transaction

Registered sales:

Date Sold	Price Paid	Nominal change	Real change
17 Jan 2024	£210,000	-10.6%	-55.8%
21 Jul 2004	£235,000	n/a	n/a

 

[spygirl]

Address:	15, Browning Court, Fenham Court, Newcastle Upon Tyne, NE4 9DR
Type:	Flat
Tenure:	Leasehold
New build:	No
Links:	Price map  (Newcastle Upon Tyne)
Transaction type:	Standard price paid transaction

Registered sales:

Date Sold	Price Paid	Nominal change	Real change
15 Dec 2023	£85,000	-45.5%	-69.4%
16 Dec 2008	£155,950 *	n/a	n/a

[Talking Monkey]

1 minute ago, spygirl said:

The xmaple was just one I went to look for and found in seconds.

I coud ful this thread with posts on 'portfolio' properdee sold to dumb Southern LL from 2002,

I sort of feel I missed out a bit.

Address:	112 Thornton Street, Middlesbrough, TS3 6PL
Type:	Terrace
Tenure:	Freehold
New build:	No
Links:	Price map  (Middlesbrough)
Transaction type:	Additional price paid transaction

Registered sales:

Date Sold	Price Paid	Nominal change	Real change
05 Jan 2024	£60,000	-15.5%	-54.1%
18 Apr 2007	£71,000 *	n/a	n/a

 

 

 

This ones a new build rather than terrace - 

Address:	Flat 5, 7 Osborne Terrace, Newcastle Upon Tyne, NE2 1NE
Type:	Flat
Tenure:	Leasehold
New build:	No
Links:	Price map  (Newcastle Upon Tyne)
Transaction type:	Standard price paid transaction

Registered sales:

Date Sold	Price Paid	Nominal change	Real change
17 Jan 2024	£210,000	-10.6%	-55.8%
21 Jul 2004	£235,000	n/a	n/a

 

Kin hell the south is on for an epic kicking over the next 5 years. 

[onlyme]

3 hours ago, spygirl said:

The buy-to-let we bought in 2007 is still in negative equity: How do we get out? DAVID HOLLINGWORTH replies

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-13210077/The-buy-let-bought-2007-negative-equity-DAVID-HOLLINGWORTH-replies.html?ico=mol_desktop_home-newtab&molReferrerUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fhome%2Findex.html&_ga=2.68805717.550789933.1710759138-1153876054.1674210976&_gl=1*1ogmddx*_ga*MTE1Mzg3NjA1NC4xNjc0MjEwOTc2*_ga_XE0XLFFF16*MTcxMDgzODgyMC44OC4xLjE3MTA4MzkxNTkuMC4wLjA.

My wife and I purchased a buy-to-let property in 2007 and it has turned out to be the worst financial decision of our lives. 

We bought it for £155,000 with a £35,000 deposit, leaving us with a £120,000 mortgage. But the recession hit shortly after, and its value plummeted to £75,000. 

The mortgage was initially interest-only but three years ago we moved to a repayment mortgage to try and reduce the debt. We have never missed a payment.

This property continues to drain all our finances and I cannot express to you the negative impact this has had on our lives. It has given us many sleepless nights. 

The mortgage rate has recently gone up to 8.74 per cent (£949.07 per month) which is no longer sustainable for us. As we are in negative equity, we can't switch to another bank.

 

We also pay around £150 in management and agent fees, and the rent we make from the property is £500 per month.

We've considered handing back the keys to the bank but as we still have a mortgage on the home we live in, we are concerned about the impact on our credit file.

That mortgage has an outstanding balance of £94,000 and is currently on a 1.94 per cent rate (£702.84 per month). The deal ends in July. It is 25 per cent loan-to-value.

Should we refinance our own home to try and get the LTV down on the other nightmare mortgage? Could we repay small lump sums to try and clear it? 

 

Crossing with Properdee thread ....

There are a lot of places in the North here prices have been stuck at 2004 nominal prices.

The aove is pure - We select you a properdee portfolio ..... 155k in 07 for a property that rents at 500 is fucking nuts.

 

The recent IR uptk has collapsed the number of sales, already on the floor, even furth.

Market is submerged.

Assuming mortgage rates/SVR stays 5%-6% then theres going to be at least 30% off prices, taking them back to late 90s, which also takes them back to late 80s nominal prices.

 

Meanwhile at the other end of the market.

https://www.cityam.com/prime-london-house-prices-slump-to-2014-levels-rents-peak/#

Prime London house prices back at 2014 levels as buyers shun South Kensington and Chelsea

House prices in the prime London market have fallen year-on-year and are now back at 2014 levels, according to new data from Lonres. 

Figures from the property consultancy showed house prices in prime London are now 2.5 per cent below their pre-pandemic level having fallen by 7.1 per cent annually.  

[spygirl]

23 minutes ago, onlyme said:

Meanwhile at the other end of the market.

https://www.cityam.com/prime-london-house-prices-slump-to-2014-levels-rents-peak/#

Prime London house prices back at 2014 levels as buyers shun South Kensington and Chelsea

House prices in the prime London market have fallen year-on-year and are now back at 2014 levels, according to new data from Lonres. 

Figures from the property consultancy showed house prices in prime London are now 2.5 per cent below their pre-pandemic level having fallen by 7.1 per cent annually.  

Let me rephrase that for you - 

Fall to levels last seen 10y ago.

In the 90s recession London/SE prices only fell back to 87 levels - about 8 years.

 

I keep banging on i nte properdde thread that I expect local (NY coast) prices to fall back to late 90s prices.

Scabby have been  stuck around 2004, well, since 2004 ...

And thats with *LOADS* of BTL (Scabby is a IO BTL hotspot), and FHL in Whitby.

Both required ZIRP to be viable, and stupid HMRC oversight on taxation.

Zirps gone.

Both are now properly taxed.

 

 

 

 

[onlyme]

6 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Let me rephrase that for you - 

Fall to levels last seen 10y ago.

In the 90s recession London/SE prices only fell back to 87 levels - about 8 years.

 

I keep banging on i nte properdde thread that I expect local (NY coast) prices to fall back to late 90s prices.

Scabby have been  stuck around 2004, well, since 2004 ...

And thats with *LOADS* of BTL (Scabby is a IO BTL hotspot), and FHL in Whitby.

Both required ZIRP to be viable, and stupid HMRC oversight on taxation.

Zirps gone.

Both are now properly taxed.

 

HIgh BTL areas can become deeeply undesireable residential areas when the chips are down and the landlords are scaling back. Pissing in the well springs to mind.

[spygirl]

36 minutes ago, Talking Monkey said:

Kin hell the south is on for an epic kicking over the next 5 years. 

As well as being grossly overpriced, I reckon London/Se is seeing massive structural change in employment.

Basically, the reversal of the effect of FInSec big bang from 85.

If you back, to before 85 or better, before 79, then prices in London were not noticeable high.

According to a odler co worker, large parts of inner London - and not jus tthe shiteholes - were cheap cos noone wanted to live there. And there were no jobs.

London had a a large, diverse economy before 85ish.

Now its mainly finsec and pro services. There is some reality left, although its closing at a rapid rate, and food n n drink, which is low paid.

If you go back to the 70s - The Good Life- people were after semi-rural in the home counties.

 

 

 

 

 

[spygirl]

4 minutes ago, onlyme said:

HIgh BTL areas can become deeeply undesireable residential areas when the chips are down and the landlords are scaling back. Pissing in the well springs to mind.

Im not sure why but i thought - City Centre living in Bstoke!

YEah I know.

Anyhow ....

 

https://houseprices.io/?q=Winterthur+Way%2c+Basingstoke%2c+RG21+7UE&p=4

Latest house prices matching: 'winterthur way, basingstoke, rg21 7ue'

140 sales found

Date	Price	Address
04/06/2014	£165,000	127 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
17/04/2014	£125,000	191 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
17/04/2014	£149,950	140 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
08/04/2013	£135,000	124 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
01/03/2013	£155,995	156 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
25/01/2013	£156,000	158 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
15/10/2010	£165,000	173 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
02/07/2010	£157,500	156 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
20/11/2009	£156,000	128 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
25/03/2009	£160,000	179 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
17/09/2008	£135,000	122 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
12/06/2008	£160,000	139 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
03/06/2008	£173,000	166 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
31/01/2008	£145,000	152 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
25/01/2008	£172,000	148 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
17/12/2007	£177,500	139 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
14/12/2007	£178,000	158 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
07/12/2007	£163,000	144 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
26/10/2007	£184,500	167 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE
03/10/2007	£249,050	195 Winterthur Way, Basingstoke, RG21 7UE

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next

Dammit . Almost an all RED page.

 

[onlyme]

Just now, spygirl said:

Im not sure why but i thought - City Centre living in Bstoke!

YEah I know.

Anyhow ....

 

https://houseprices.io/?q=Winterthur+Way%2c+Basingstoke%2c+RG21+7UE&p=4

Wow.

The thing with cookie cutter / non exendable / likely not refurbished proerty examples like this is that they offer a fixed marker against which you can make a direct comparison. Now most likely overpaid in the first place fro a new place but still.

You never really know with single properties/semis/terrraced for example, especially older ones. They may have been a wreck 20 odd years ago and had complete refurb, new everything from 2nd fix upwards, something that in current money would cost anything from £10k's to £100k's to get to current selling price.

[spygirl]

2 minutes ago, onlyme said:

Wow.

The thing with cookie cutter / non exendable / likely not refurbished proerty examples like this is that they offer a fixed marker against which you can make a direct comparison. Now most likely overpaid in the first place fro a new place but still.

You never really know with single properties/semis/terrraced for example, especially older ones. They may have been a wreck 20 odd years ago and had complete refurb, new everything from 2nd fix upwards, something that in current money would cost anything from £10k's to £100k's to get to current selling price.

These are flats in a converted office tower in Bstoke.

They are basically worthless.

 

[spygirl]

Maybe we just need to accept LLs are cleverer, better looking n better at making lurve than us?

 

https://www.property118.com/how-do-i-end-an-unlicensed-hmo-in-newham/

How do I end an unlicensed HMO in Newham?

by Readers Question

9:29 AM, 22nd March 2024, About A day ago 8

Text Size  

Hello, any advice is much appreciated. I have an unlicensed HMO in Newham which I need to draw to an end with minimum financial ruin….

I was living there with 2 lodgers. 6 months ago I moved out and another lodger moved in. They are all on lodger agreements – are you understanding that this may complicate things?

I recently started preparing to apply for an HMO additional licence as Newham call them but was alarmed to discover the whole borough has Article 4 Directions in place. So, therefore, the planning permission and the licence would both be rejected.

As I understand it, I need to apply for a Temporary Licence Exemption first, and then evict the tenants?

The tenants are good people but from what I understand I’m basically at their mercy to agree to leave?

Any advice on the procedure and timeline if they didn’t move out would also be appreciated.

Thank you,

Chris

 

[spygirl]

A must-read for all landlords: A frustrated landlord speaks out

https://www.property118.com/a-must-read-for-all-landlords-a-frustrated-landlord-speaks-out/

A landlord has told Property118 of his frustrations in dealing with the courts and rent tribunals – and warns that the abolition of Section 21 will bring in ‘tenancies for life’.

Paul has 20 rented properties around the Fylde coast and says he is an ‘accidental landlord’ after a successful career with a Fortune 100 company.

Paul explains that he recently had a tenant leave without notice and he only found out when he saw on Facebook that the tenant was booking a removal van that day.

When Paul went to the furnished property, he found the tenant had not only damaged it – but had also stolen everything too.

He adds: “Universal Credit did help – just him. They are his partner in crime and immediately stopped paying me, including the arrears.

[spygirl]

Slumlord then. Deserves everything he gets. And more.

I think 'Flyde coast' = Blackpool

[reformed nice guy]

58 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Paul has 20 rented properties

...

says he is an ‘accidental landlord’

Accidental?

Is he claiming that he had a drunken night on Rightmove and bought 20 houses or something? How could you accidently end up with 20 rental properties?

[leonardratso]

13 minutes ago, reformed nice guy said:

Accidental?

Is he claiming that he had a drunken night on Rightmove and bought 20 houses or something? How could you accidently end up with 20 rental properties?

this is the guy with the vacuum hose up his arse in A&E when he accidentally slipped while hoovering naked.

[spygirl]

OK, I know this is prob alightly made up fir advertorial purposes but ..... its not far off some people I hear about.

The money diaries: ‘Buy-to-let didn’t work out – I need to find Plan B

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/money-mentor/investing/buy-to-let-isa-investing-guide-expert-lloyds-bank

Occupation IT consultant
Age 54
Lives in St Albans
Salary £61,000
Take-home £3,700 pcm
Housing status Five-bedroom house; £300,000 left to pay on the mortgage
Lives with My wife and daughter, 17. My two older children have left home
Housing costs £1,000 pcm plus £700 which we pay for our daughter’s rent – she’s at university
Savings Cash savings of £3,500; cash ISA with £4,000
Pension Currently stopped paying into my workplace pension – outgoings are so high we can’t afford to. There’s probably £30,000 in there
Utilities £500 pcm
Other monthly outgoings
• Car lease £260
• TV subscriptions £19.97
• Internet £60
• Mobile £62
• Eating out £60
• Groceries £500

[spygirl]

54, 13 years to clear 300k of mortgage debt.

1k/m repayment on 300k of debt has to be low IO mortgage.

30k in a pension - I've seen loads of those.

Sub 10k cash ffs, for a self employed 

Eating 60!!! I wish,. Wheres he go ?MaccyD?

 

[roundhouse]

4 hours ago, spygirl said:

Utilities £500 pcm
Other monthly outgoings
• Car lease £260
• TV subscriptions £19.97
• Internet £60
• Mobile £62
• Eating out £60
• Groceries £500

Are these realistic amounts for two "skint" people with only £7.5K in the bank? Five bed house is big so maybe more on heating, but only 2.5 people living there. So how utilities at £500/mo. Mobile £62, really? I pay £8/mo. Rarely eat out other than occasional pasty, but am sure I don't touch £500 or even £200/mo on groceries. Or £100, but will check tomorrow.

Renting/lodging I'm really out of touch with utility bills so would appreciate any guidance from dosbodders.