How does Buy to Let END!

[Heart's Ease]

Spotted on landlord FB page.

[spygirl]

2 hours ago, JoeDavola said:

THe attraction with housing was that you can "never fail".

And to be fair for all his fucking whinging, the value of his house has pretty much doubled since he bought it.

So he'll probably be fine and the call for sympathy is a bit ridiculous.

He thinks its doubled.

Its not sold yet.

In the North IO BTL were *THE* market for 2/3 br terraces.

 

[JoeDavola]

1 minute ago, spygirl said:

He thinks its doubled.

Its not sold yet.

In the North IO BTL were *THE* market for 2/3 br terraces.

Well yes the unfortunate end result of streets that almost all BTL with transient renters in them is that they end up being places that no owner occupier wants to live.

[Wight Flight]

23 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Well yes the unfortunate end result of streets that almost all BTL with transient renters in them is that they end up being places that no owner occupier wants to live.

Possibly most renters don't want to live there either?

[JoeDavola]

2 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

Possibly most renters don't want to live there either?

In some cases they might not want to.

In others, they might see it as somewhere they'd want to live short term, but not actually buy as a 'forever home' e.g. an apartment.

For the latter, I've enjoted reading the discussion about build-to-let blocks and I've come around to the idea they might actually be a better deal for renters than lanlords; economies of scale when maintaining them and all that.

Edited June 20, 2023 by JoeDavola

[sancho panza]

10 hours ago, spygirl said:

He thinks its doubled.

Its not sold yet.

In the North IO BTL were *THE* market for 2/3 br terraces.

 

I wonder who his mrotgage is with?

I've known some very shrewd landlords in my time and he's the author of his own downfall

whats fascinating is that he's keen to expand overseas.....well,I mean he's been so successful in the market he knows best....why not?

'The property has been valued at £220,000, which means that over the last 17 years the couple have seen capital growth. But Rami doubts it will be an easy sell. 

“Don’t forget that house prices are falling and no landlords are buying, and whatever we do sell it for we will have to pay capital gains tax because it has been rented,” said Rami. “I don’t know what I am going to do with … [the capital] … but it will definitely be something overseas.”'

 

Second part of the article is surreal.She's the NRLA rep for a chunk of Londinium.So she's giving advice out ffs........read it and weep.Sort of explains why so many got drawn in as despite being crap at maths when she makes £500k capital gain.Fair play.She took a risk and it paid out.

 

'Karen, 55, who lives in Worthing, West Sussex, is thoroughly immersed in the landlord business. 

She owns, or co-owns, three rental properties, and helps other landlords manage their properties through her company, The Ethical Landlady. She is also the National Residential Landlords’ Associations south London representative.

Back in 2004 Karen bought herself two bedroom house in Walthamstow, west London, for £230,000. 

When she went on to buy a home with her partner in 2010 she decided to hang on to the property and rent it out, initially for £1,250pcm, which covered her £1,034pcm repayment mortgage. 

Karen later switched to a BTL interest only mortgage, which reduced her monthly repayments, and by January 2020 her monthly mortgage payment came in at £494pcm, against monthly rent of £1,850.

But when the two year deal ended in January Karen’s profits evaporated. In February her payment was £1,535. In March her tenants moved out. Meanwhile, as interest rates rose so did her mortgage payments, hitting £1,897 in June.

Once costs and tax were factored into the equation Karen could see no way to make the property break even. She decided her only option was to sell up and is currently in the process of selling the house for £720,000.'

Edited June 20, 2023 by sancho panza

[spygirl]

9 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

I wonder who his mrotgage is with?

I've known some very shrewd landlords in my time and he's the author of his own downfall

whats fascinating is that he's keen to expand overseas.....well,I mean he's been so successful in the market he knows best....why not?

'The property has been valued at £220,000, which means that over the last 17 years the couple have seen capital growth. But Rami doubts it will be an easy sell. 

“Don’t forget that house prices are falling and no landlords are buying, and whatever we do sell it for we will have to pay capital gains tax because it has been rented,” said Rami. “I don’t know what I am going to do with … [the capital] … but it will definitely be something overseas.”'

 

Second part of the article is surreal.She's the NRLA rep for a chunk of Londinium.So she's giving advice out ffs........read it and weep.Sort of explains why so many got drawn in as despite being crap at maths when she makes £500k capital gain.Fair play.She took a risk and it paid out.

 

'Karen, 55, who lives in Worthing, West Sussex, is thoroughly immersed in the landlord business. 

She owns, or co-owns, three rental properties, and helps other landlords manage their properties through her company, The Ethical Landlady. She is also the National Residential Landlords’ Associations south London representative.

Back in 2004 Karen bought herself two bedroom house in Walthamstow, west London, for £230,000. 

When she went on to buy a home with her partner in 2010 she decided to hang on to the property and rent it out, initially for £1,250pcm, which covered her £1,034pcm repayment mortgage. 

Karen later switched to a BTL interest only mortgage, which reduced her monthly repayments, and by January 2020 her monthly mortgage payment came in at £494pcm, against monthly rent of £1,850.

But when the two year deal ended in January Karen’s profits evaporated. In February her payment was £1,535. In March her tenants moved out. Meanwhile, as interest rates rose so did her mortgage payments, hitting £1,897 in June.

Once costs and tax were factored into the equation Karen could see no way to make the property break even. She decided her only option was to sell up and is currently in the process of selling the house for £720,000.'

Last one.

London prices have been falling for 7-8 years.

There's muttering that tge value if  London leasehold flats may have crashed into the worthless category.

I go on about Scabby prices being stuck at 2004. It's possible the same - or worse - goes for London flats in the shittier parts of town.

 

 

[One percent]

6 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Last one.

London prices have been falling for 7-8 years.

There's muttering that tge value if  London leasehold flats may have crashed into the worthless category.

I go on about Scabby prices being stuck at 2004. It's possible the same - or worse - goes for London flats in the shittier parts of town.

 

 

The amount of flats built in londonistan in the last 20 years has been epic.  Swathes of them. Everywhere.   Then they are either bought by foreigners and left empty as an investment/hide money from own government or filled with the new British. Is anything is going to crash, it’s these.  

[AlfredTheLittle]

31 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

I wonder who his mrotgage is with?

I've known some very shrewd landlords in my time and he's the author of his own downfall

whats fascinating is that he's keen to expand overseas.....well,I mean he's been so successful in the market he knows best....why not?

'The property has been valued at £220,000, which means that over the last 17 years the couple have seen capital growth. But Rami doubts it will be an easy sell. 

“Don’t forget that house prices are falling and no landlords are buying, and whatever we do sell it for we will have to pay capital gains tax because it has been rented,” said Rami. “I don’t know what I am going to do with … [the capital] … but it will definitely be something overseas.”'

 

Second part of the article is surreal.She's the NRLA rep for a chunk of Londinium.So she's giving advice out ffs........read it and weep.Sort of explains why so many got drawn in as despite being crap at maths when she makes £500k capital gain.Fair play.She took a risk and it paid out.

 

'Karen, 55, who lives in Worthing, West Sussex, is thoroughly immersed in the landlord business. 

She owns, or co-owns, three rental properties, and helps other landlords manage their properties through her company, The Ethical Landlady. She is also the National Residential Landlords’ Associations south London representative.

Back in 2004 Karen bought herself two bedroom house in Walthamstow, west London, for £230,000. 

When she went on to buy a home with her partner in 2010 she decided to hang on to the property and rent it out, initially for £1,250pcm, which covered her £1,034pcm repayment mortgage. 

Karen later switched to a BTL interest only mortgage, which reduced her monthly repayments, and by January 2020 her monthly mortgage payment came in at £494pcm, against monthly rent of £1,850.

But when the two year deal ended in January Karen’s profits evaporated. In February her payment was £1,535. In March her tenants moved out. Meanwhile, as interest rates rose so did her mortgage payments, hitting £1,897 in June.

Once costs and tax were factored into the equation Karen could see no way to make the property break even. She decided her only option was to sell up and is currently in the process of selling the house for £720,000.'

2 bed in walthamstow 720k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[One percent]

1 minute ago, AlfredTheLittle said:

2 bed in walthamstow 720k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It’s trendy don’t cha know.  

[reformed nice guy]

26 minutes ago, One percent said:

Then they are either bought by foreigners and left empty as an investment/hide money from own government or filled with the new British

There would be a lot of irony if the 'new British' lost their savings

The government giveth, the government taketh away

[One percent]

1 minute ago, reformed nice guy said:

There would be a lot of irony if the 'new British' lost their savings

The government giveth, the government taketh away

A lot of the new british are renting, at the largesse of sap taxpayer.  But yes, some will be neck deep in debt.  Mind, if I was them and it all goes wrong, I’d just go back to whence I came. 

[Wight Flight]

28 minutes ago, AlfredTheLittle said:

2 bed in walthamstow 720k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A long while back I had a girlfriend who had bought a four bed in E17. Nice house on three levels.

She was 25 and had a relatively normal job.

 

[One percent]

Just now, Wight Flight said:

A long while back I had a girlfriend who had bought a four bed in E17. Nice house on three levels.

She was 25 and had a relatively normal job.

 

Must have been a long time ago as all i could afford was a two bed warner flat. I could hear the neighbours change their mind.   

[Wight Flight]

1 minute ago, One percent said:

Must have been a long time ago as all i could afford was a two bed warner flat. I could hear the neighbours change their mind.   

About 30 years back.

 

[One percent]

2 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

About 30 years back.

 

I was there 89ish.  

[MightyTharg]

1 hour ago, spygirl said:

 

There's muttering that tge value if  London leasehold flats may have crashed into the worthless category.

 

So where can I get these cheap flats in London?

Even the candlemaker ones South of the river were going for £350,000 - and there you had to agree to pay a £1,000,000,000 / year service charge so  could actually have been worse than worthless.

 

 

[sancho panza]

2 hours ago, spygirl said:

Last one.

London prices have been falling for 7-8 years.

There's muttering that tge value if  London leasehold flats may have crashed into the worthless category.

I go on about Scabby prices being stuck at 2004. It's possible the same - or worse - goes for London flats in the shittier parts of town.

 

 

mid price looks to be about £500k for a two bed house.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=OUTCODE^752&maxBedrooms=2&minBedrooms=2&propertyTypes=&includeSSTC=false&mustHave=&dontShow=&furnishTypes=&keywords=

1 hour ago, AlfredTheLittle said:

2 bed in walthamstow 720k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looks like she remortgagted from the payments she quoted.Likely shes in the hole for £300k.so some profit if she gets out now.

theylll be load of dip buyers I reckon

[Rare Bear]

2 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

About 30 years back.

 

Early '90s real crash?

[spygirl]

On 29/03/2019 at 08:33, spygirl said:

I was googling around unfo in this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47740529

These are all MX cBTL customers. They are grasping at straws trying to make a case out of robot signing - its does nto matter who the fuck signs the doucment, the mortgage is owed to the bank not the employee.

The MP - Holinrake - is a cunt ex Yawk EA, probably stacked with BTLs

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/170306/hollinrake_kevin.htm

Land and property portfolio: (i) value over £100,000 and/or (ii) giving rental income of over £10,000 a year

A third share in 12 residential properties in York: (i) and (ii). (Registered 05 June 2015)

Anyhow stumpled on this from guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/dec/10/buy-to-let-landlords-vilified-lending-crackdown-tax-hike-profit-loss

But critics warn the clampdown may force up rents – and argue that they are not all fat cats. Cooper, 55 and from Windsor, is a landlord with 15 properties across the country, from Crawley in the south to Grimsby in the north. On paper he appears to be a millionaire, with the properties worth a total of £2.4m. But Cooper works as cabin crew on an airline earning £34,000 a year, and says he began doing buy to let to supplement his otherwise meagre pension.

His total rental income is £104,000 a year, but mortgage interest and charges are £88,000, leaving him with an annual profit of £16,000. Added to his pay it brings his annual income to £50,000. Currently he pays £12,320 tax and national insurance on that, but once the tax changes are fully phased in by 2020 his bill will rise to £22,720. Figures prepared by his accountant suggest the tax on his rental income will rise from £4,600 (or 29% of his profits) to £14,900, or 93% of his profits. If interest rates rise he says he will have to pay tax in excess of his profits.

Those numbers are fuckign insane. The idiot and the banks who lent him that money need to be stripped of all assets and put in jail.

Earning 34k in Crawley means the fucker could barely afford to rent a fucking flat never mind 'own' a 2.4m property empire.

Rental income for individual should never have been allowed to be discounted from rent - this wa an oversight as noone ever though banks would be stupid enough to lend how they did.

What sort of leverage does he have? IO Mortgage @ say 4%/y of ~90k means hes carrying around 2m of io debt on a salary of 34k in the frocking South. Apply MMR lending ,hed only been able to get a resi mortgage under 150k.

 

 

One of my psots from the 1st paeg of this thread.

All of ~4y years ago.

Ill cutnpaste the lolz bits.

Fuckwits mortgage would have been sub 5% then.

Assuming hes still solvent hes looking at 8%-10%. Basically double, hell have a ~80k shortfall to make up. All on 34k salary - assuming he didnt lose his job during coof.

His pension, no matter how 'meagre' will be took off by the banks.

 

--- start ---

ut critics warn the clampdown may force up rents – and argue that they are not all fat cats. Cooper, 55 and from Windsor, is a landlord with 15 properties across the country, from Crawley in the south to Grimsby in the north. On paper he appears to be a millionaire, with the properties worth a total of £2.4m. But Cooper works as cabin crew on an airline earning £34,000 a year, and says he began doing buy to let to supplement his otherwise meagre pension.

His total rental income is £104,000 a year, but mortgage interest and charges are £88,000, leaving him with an annual profit of £16,000. Added to his pay it brings his annual income to £50,000. Currently he pays £12,320 tax and national insurance on that, but once the tax changes are fully phased in by 2020 his bill will rise to £22,720. Figures prepared by his accountant suggest the tax on his rental income will rise from £4,600 (or 29% of his profits) to £14,900, or 93% of his profits. If interest rates rise he says he will have to pay tax in excess of his profits.

Those numbers are fuckign insane. The idiot and the banks who lent him that money need to be stripped of all assets and put in jail.

Earning 34k in Crawley means the fucker could barely afford to rent a fucking flat never mind 'own' a 2.4m property empire.

Rental income for individual should never have been allowed to be discounted from rent - this wa an oversight as noone ever though banks would be stupid enough to lend how they did.

What sort of leverage does he have? IO Mortgage @ say 4%/y of ~90k means hes carrying around 2m of io debt on a salary of 34k in the frocking South. Apply MMR lending ,hed only been able to get a resi mortgage under 150k.

 

--- end ---

 

[spygirl]

Strange ftarticle.

Must be windrush day ....

Property-owning south Asian families face IHT challenges

Many immigrant-origin people are missing the benefits of portfolio diversification

https://www.ft.com/content/4d3a67ff-af45-4089-933b-5ba8d86dfa84#comments-anchor

You mean cash in hand slumlording has blown up in thier face?

Anand’s father, who was among 40,000 Asians expelled from Uganda in the 1970s, set up a chain of post offices before selling up at the turn of the millennium and investing in real estate.

Anand says he was “a very smart, very sharp” self-starter. When he died he left several rental properties to his wife so there was no IHT to pay. But like a generation of south Asians who often relied on bricks and mortar to preserve and grow wealth, he focused on a single asset class, missed the benefits of diversification and failed to make the most of tax-efficient investment vehicles.

You mean he kept them out of tax man's eyes?

The median property wealth of British Pakistani and British Indian households in the UK is greater than the white population, according to a report last year from the think-tank Institute for Fiscal Studies. For Bangladeshi households the figure was lower but these families still hold a greater proportion of their wealth in property than pensions. 

They are tax dodging fuvkwits.

 

Mbedzi says one wealthy Pakistani client’s self-invested personal pension contained a rental property yielding only 2 per cent. A difficult conversation ensued, but “he arranged for the property to be sold, and then we invested the money into an investment that was aligned with his values”.

 

[leonardratso]

Another house?

[spygirl]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65990833

Some urged more aggressive action - the National Residential Landlords Association (NRLA) called for the reintroduction of mortgage interest relief and the unfreezing of housing benefit rates.

It said the majority (85%) of buy-to-let properties had mortgages that were interest-only and were "particularly exposed" to rising rates.

The NRLA warned that interest rates of 5% could force landlords to sell 735,000 rental properties. "This will exacerbate the ongoing supply and demand crisis across the private rented sector," it said.

A large part of PRS tenants are migriants.

They can fuck off back towhere they came from.

And the NRLA can go and fuck itself.

 

[JoeDavola]

14 hours ago, spygirl said:

The median property wealth of British Pakistani and British Indian households in the UK is greater than the white population, according to a report last year from the think-tank Institute for Fiscal Studies.

Highlighting in case anyone missed that important detail.

[spygirl]

5 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Highlighting in case anyone missed that important detail.

Thast tends to be cause they are all self employed which is a posh word for not paying tax.

And they sinktheir money into property.

Fuckwits.