Property crash, just maybe it really is different this time

[Axeman123]

52 minutes ago, Option5 said:

One advantage of the fixer upper, even if there's no cash saving in the end is that you get the house done how you want it, not what the previous owners wanted.

The other thing is, it depends what we mean by fixer upper. New roof and floor joists etc or just 1980s wallpaper and kitchen. A lot of so-called fixer uppers are perfectly livable (and often have been rented) as they stand. Not everyone wants or needs a fashionable house. When someone pays £250k for a starter home another £5k for a fancy kitchen seems triffling, (and they probably need to disguise what they have actually bought for that money).

[Boon]

17 minutes ago, wherebee said:

you could always look into short term hotel living, 4-5 star, if you think the market is in for a collapse.  find a good hotel (no refugees), and talk to the manager about a long stay agreement.  They love a good client.  Stick all your stuff in storage.

Film stars, rock stars, and minor royalty have done this for years.

I actually thought about this. You can get monthly stays in somewhere like Bangkok really cheap.

I dunno if it would work for high-end hotels here as you'd just be paying through the nose. It would still easily be a couple grand a month.

For a bog-standard Travelodge? Reckon that could be quite cheap, although then you run the risk of living on the same floors as people who don't give a shit.

[haroldshand]

20 minutes ago, wherebee said:

you could always look into short term hotel living, 4-5 star, if you think the market is in for a collapse.  find a good hotel (no refugees), and talk to the manager about a long stay agreement.  They love a good client.  Stick all your stuff in storage.

Film stars, rock stars, and minor royalty have done this for years.

Or just black up and buy a cheap dingy and just sit on the south coat beach for a few hours and get picked up and spend next 6 months in free 4 star hotels

[GTM]

1 hour ago, haroldshand said:

I have noticed many people on this thread wanting a property crash and I am not saying there is anything wrong or not wrong in that, many also seem to be in their 40's or even older. But how exactly do you think you are going to profit from that outcome when up until now you have not managed to thrive in the property market.

I've just about got enough money to buy outright. Though I get a better house by investing the money and using the dividends to pay the rent. What I have come to realise though is that it isn't really a property crash I want first and foremost. But that would be the likely outcome of things that I would like to see.

Stopping benefits, "free" schooling and "free" health services for people who haven't got a record of NI payments, especially, but not limited to immigrants. Far better protection, albeit time limited, for people who lose their jobs but with the option to sit on your arse for years on bennies removed. Normalised interest rates so that people who save can be rewarded. I haven't even mentioned immigration, because fixing the benefits system would largely fix immigration.

[Frank Hovis]

5 minutes ago, Boon said:

I actually thought about this. You can get monthly stays in somewhere like Bangkok really cheap.

I dunno if it would work for high-end hotels here as you'd just be paying through the nose. It would still easily be a couple grand a month.

For a bog-standard Travelodge? Reckon that could be quite cheap, although then you run the risk of living on the same floors as people who don't give a shit.

 

You can do it and don't need to be permanently in the same room.  This is from 2007 and they had lived in them for 22 years.

I would though note that they had a base - a flat in Sheffield - so they had a mailing address and somehwere to store possessions.

In a way it's like living in a camper van in that you have few possessions and are mobile.  But you don't need to buy the van as that's your hotel room. 

They were paying about £5k a year which won't rent you much so it does look like a genuine option; you need to plan ahead but you don't need to stay in the same spot all the time.

 

Travelodge couple's 22-year stay

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44110000/jpg/_44110730_daviddavidson203.jpg David Davidson says the hotel room means better access for his wife A couple who have lived in Travelodges for more than 20 years are to have a room named after them. David Davidson, 79, and his wife, Jean, 70, have a flat in Sheffield but have lived in the hotels near Newark, Notts and then Grantham, Lincs, since 1985. The couple have spent about £100,000 but said they do not have to worry about bills, cooking or making the bed. Room 1 of the Gonerby Moor Travelodge near the A1 will now be called The Davidson Suite, complete with a plaque.   http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/start_quote_rb.gif We do have to be a bit choosy about what we keep in our room as it can fill up easily http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/end_quote_rb.gif David Davidson, long-term resident The couple stayed at the first ever Travelodge in Barton-under-Needwood, Staffordshire and liked it so much they began to stay more and more often, finally choosing the hotel in Newark.   By booking 12 months in advance, they pay £90 a week and have all housework done by maids while often eating at the nearby Little Chef.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/6988927.stm

[haroldshand]

2 minutes ago, GTM said:

Stopping benefits, "free" schooling and "free" health services for people who haven't got a record of NI payments, especially, but not limited to immigrants. Far better protection, albeit time limited, for people who lose their jobs but with the option to sit on your arse for years on bennies removed. Normalised interest rates so that people who save can be rewarded. I haven't even mentioned immigration, because fixing the benefits system would largely fix immigration.

Isn't that spooky

I just said the same thing minutes ago on another thread, I found out this morning that out of my own cash/wages/tax/NI returns I have paid 37 years NI contributions and my first thought was "so fucking what how does that benefit me" over some who didn't give a shit and never worked

[JoeDavola]

49 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Minor personal financial reasons - I have a notion to buy, in about ten years, a much more expensive house.  Maybe three times the value of my current one.

Now that's interesting.

If it's 3 times as expensive, presumably it's a fair bit bigger too, and whilst you'll still have plenty of life left in you, you rarely hear of folk moving 'up' the ladder in their 60's.

Is there a specific location you have in mind or do you forsee yourself needing/wanting a lot more space all of a sudden. Planning on starting a family? (serious question)

[Don Coglione]

34 minutes ago, Axeman123 said:

The other thing is, it depends what we mean by fixer upper. New roof and floor joists etc or just 1980s wallpaper and kitchen. A lot of so-called fixer uppers are perfectly livable (and often have been rented) as they stand. Not everyone wants or needs a fashionable house. When someone pays £250k for a starter home another £5k for a fancy kitchen seems triffling, (and they probably need to disguise what they have actually bought for that money).

A 5 grand kitchen is going to be far from fancy!

[Axeman123]

2 minutes ago, Don Coglione said:

A 5 grand kitchen is going to be far from fancy!

The house I grew up in was like "Steptoe and son", so it would be for me...

[GTM]

29 minutes ago, haroldshand said:

Isn't that spooky

I just said the same thing minutes ago on another thread, I found out this morning that out of my own cash/wages/tax/NI returns I have paid 37 years NI contributions and my first thought was "so fucking what how does that benefit me" over some who didn't give a shit and never worked

I think pension credit is symptomatic of the flaws running through the whole benefits system. The rules for getting a pension, if you have worked and played by the rules, are such and such. If you haven't bothered, the benefits system will sort you out so you are in a better situation.

[Frank Hovis]

10 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Now that's interesting.

If it's 3 times as expensive, presumably it's a fair bit bigger too, and whilst you'll still have plenty of life left in you, you rarely hear of folk moving 'up' the ladder in their 60's.

Is there a specific location you have in mind or do you forsee yourself needing/wanting a lot more space all of a sudden. Planning on starting a family? (serious question)

 

Nowhere specific but with water frontage for a boat, and set back and up from the water so that there is no risk of flooding.  Big house but not a mansion. In Cornwall it would be on the south coast, the sea on the north is usually too rough for messing about in boats, but it doesn't have to be Cornwall.  If I was going from a clean sheet of where to live, say I was still living in London, then I probably would not pick Cornwall owing to the mass tourism from which it suffers.

So it might well not be Cornwall.  Somewhere away from the blight of mass tourism would be welcome.

Starting a family?  These days I would be open to that particularly as I could afford to employ a nanny so that it's not all sleepless nights and stress.  I wouldn't say that it's as strong as an aim but I meet the right woman and who knows?

I never fancied having a family when I was younger and nor was I envious of friends who did; quite the reverse.  I know it's a frequent theme on here but it was the way that it had changed from the 1950s/60s/70s where one salary was enough to buy a house and support a family to the 1990s where it was both parents working, children bunged in expensive childcare from an early age, stress and financial worry.  It didn't look an attractive proposition then but now it would be fine.

[JoeDavola]

50 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Nowhere specific but with water frontage for a boat, and set back and up from the water so that there is no risk of flooding.  Big house but not a mansion. In Cornwall it would be on the south coast, the sea on the north is usually too rough for messing about in boats, but it doesn't have to be Cornwall.  If I was going from a clean sheet of where to live, say I was still living in London, then I probably would not pick Cornwall owing to the mass tourism from which it suffers.

So it might well not be Cornwall.  Somewhere away from the blight of mass tourism would be welcome.

Starting a family?  These days I would be open to that particularly as I could afford to employ a nanny so that it's not all sleepless nights and stress.  I wouldn't say that it's as strong as an aim but I meet the right woman and who knows?

I never fancied having a family when I was younger and nor was I envious of friends who did; quite the reverse.  I know it's a frequent theme on here but it was the way that it had changed from the 1950s/60s/70s where one salary was enough to buy a house and support a family to the 1990s where it was both parents working, children bunged in expensive childcare from an early age, stress and financial worry.  It didn't look an attractive proposition then but now it would be fine.

Very interesting.

Yes water fontage and a wee boat would be my dream housing setup too; house itself wouldn't even need to be that big if it was just me in it.

I think you're correct about the family too - it's not PC to say it but so many arguments in a marriage come from money worries. If you can provide a good quality of life with no money worries or career stress I'd guess you're far more likely to have a happy content wife and it should be a nice environment to bring a kid up in.

Edited July 27, 2022 by JoeDavola

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Frank Hovis said:

Travelodge couple's 22-year stay

A couple who have lived in Travelodges for more than 20 years are to have a room named after them.

The Linton Travel Tavern is good for longer stays too, friendly staff and you can bring your big plate to the buffet.

[Frank Hovis]

2 minutes ago, Darude said:

The Linton Travel Tavern is good for longer stays too, friendly staff and you can bring your big plate to the buffet.

 

Guinness and a gin and tonic - ladyboys!

[AWW]

Thanks but I'm just going to stay put until something comes up. I can't see how the LL forces us out for at least another 6 months, if he's lucky. And he'll have to give a good reference, because he wants us out so that he can sell.

[Wight Flight]

5 hours ago, AWW said:

and I won't be the only mug on this site funding five fat fucks to sit on their arse.

Bad planning. I stopped at two.

[Wight Flight]

5 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

You can do it and don't need to be permanently in the same room.  This is from 2007 and they had lived in them for 22 years.

I would though note that they had a base - a flat in Sheffield - so they had a mailing address and somehwere to store possessions.

In a way it's like living in a camper van in that you have few possessions and are mobile.  But you don't need to buy the van as that's your hotel room. 

They were paying about £5k a year which won't rent you much so it does look like a genuine option; you need to plan ahead but you don't need to stay in the same spot all the time.

 

Travelodge couple's 22-year stay

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44110000/jpg/_44110730_daviddavidson203.jpg David Davidson says the hotel room means better access for his wife A couple who have lived in Travelodges for more than 20 years are to have a room named after them. David Davidson, 79, and his wife, Jean, 70, have a flat in Sheffield but have lived in the hotels near Newark, Notts and then Grantham, Lincs, since 1985. The couple have spent about £100,000 but said they do not have to worry about bills, cooking or making the bed. Room 1 of the Gonerby Moor Travelodge near the A1 will now be called The Davidson Suite, complete with a plaque.   http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/start_quote_rb.gif We do have to be a bit choosy about what we keep in our room as it can fill up easily http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/end_quote_rb.gif David Davidson, long-term resident The couple stayed at the first ever Travelodge in Barton-under-Needwood, Staffordshire and liked it so much they began to stay more and more often, finally choosing the hotel in Newark.   By booking 12 months in advance, they pay £90 a week and have all housework done by maids while often eating at the nearby Little Chef.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/6988927.stm

I don't know how they got that rate.

My booking was £1,500 a month, which isn't too bad for an insurance policy. But Premiere Inn, not travelodge.

[Frank Hovis]

3 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

I don't know how they got that rate.

My booking was £1,500 a month, which isn't too bad for an insurance policy. But Premiere Inn, not travelodge.

 

It's 2007 and they were booking a year ahead in very unglamorous areas.

I agree that I couldn't get anywhere near that in Torquay or Weymouth, for example.

[Wight Flight]

2 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

It's 2007 and they were booking a year ahead in very unglamorous areas.

I agree that I couldn't get anywhere near that in Torquay or Weymouth, for example.

You could book the Ovo for less. But that is where they bung the homeless, so you might as well become homeless and let the council pick up the tab.

[Option5]

3 hours ago, JoeDavola said:

Very interesting.

Yes water fontage and a wee boat would be my dream housing setup too; house itself wouldn't even need to be that big if it was just me in it.

I think you're correct about the family too - it's not PC to say it but so many arguments in a marriage come from money worries. If you can provide a good quality of life with no money worries or career stress I'd guess you're far more likely to have a happy content wife and it should be a nice environment to bring a kid up in.

Money worries are easy, never take the maximum mortgage you can get to buy a house, buy one you can easily afford.

Same for all consumer goods.

If you want better, save up.

[haroldshand]

What do you reckon to this guy?

 

Not what I was expecting 

Edited July 27, 2022 by haroldshand

[tank]

11 hours ago, GTM said:

I've just about got enough money to buy outright. Though I get a better house by investing the money and using the dividends to pay the rent. What I have come to realise though is that it isn't really a property crash I want first and foremost. But that would be the likely outcome of things that I would like to see.

Stopping benefits, "free" schooling and "free" health services for people who haven't got a record of NI payments, especially, but not limited to immigrants. Far better protection, albeit time limited, for people who lose their jobs but with the option to sit on your arse for years on bennies removed. Normalised interest rates so that people who save can be rewarded. I haven't even mentioned immigration, because fixing the benefits system would largely fix immigration.

This is where I differ with most on here. To me all UK citizens should be able to acccess universal healthcare, free schooling and basic means tested welfare. I agree that foreign nationals should not be entitled to tbe above unless they've paid in for 10 years minimum and have acquired citizenship. I'd also stop all family benefits to those under 25 as modern welfare dependency revolves around incentivising teenage girls and young women to become career single mothers. 

Of course, nothing will be done to reform the set up because the main beneficiaries of high welfare expenditure are the rentiers pulling the strings of the establishment Tory Party and the so called 'alternative'. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

Long term welfare recipients don't vote or donate large sums to political parties. New immigrants don't vote because they can't, so it's pretty obvious that it's those at the very top pushing mass immigration and generous bennies for 'Shaz'. Impulsive, low calibre women with sprogs account for 80%+ of the working age welfare bill because they spend every penny and put a floor under rents with HB.

Edited July 28, 2022 by tank

[wherebee]

14 hours ago, Boon said:

I actually thought about this. You can get monthly stays in somewhere like Bangkok really cheap.

I dunno if it would work for high-end hotels here as you'd just be paying through the nose. It would still easily be a couple grand a month.

For a bog-standard Travelodge? Reckon that could be quite cheap, although then you run the risk of living on the same floors as people who don't give a shit.

You'd be surprised at the discounts high end hotels give to long term, high quality guests.

A mate of mine was partnered with a guy who was relatively high up in one of the asian hotel chains; from how he described it they had a lot of film stars with long term rentals who were paying 20-30% normal market rates.  Now, that may have been because the hotels wanted the cachet (and of course actors might be away filming a bit - less cleaning) but goes to show.

[Noallegiance]

3 hours ago, tank said:

I'd also stop all family benefits to those under 25 as modern welfare dependency revolves around incentivising teenage girls and young women to become career single mothers. 

The horrendous black comedy side of this is that young women not on benefits but having babies used to be called life.

Modern eonomics has so fucked up the world that the basis of life now has to be subsidised. Even producing humans has been financialised.

I weep for what the last 30 years of policy has done. So much of a genuine society has been lost.

[Democorruptcy]

This is a proper you can't go wrong with property in an article about China's central bank doing a 148bn bailout via low interest rate loans to try get stalled construction projects finished. One of the affected buyers:

Quote

“I can’t see any hope,” said James Lu, a sales clerk in the central city of Zhengzhou who borrowed Rmb650,000 to buy a Rmb910,000 flat. “The developer has run out of money and it doesn’t make economic sense to bail the project out.”

Lu is one of more than 4,900 homebuyers at the development, Kangqiao Nayunxi, who stopped paying their mortgages nine months after construction stopped. Lu’s monthly mortgage payment of Rmb4,000 eats up two-thirds of his family’s household income.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2F777fc269-e54f-442e-8b43-115c4937b421

He was paying 2/3 of his family's household income for something he wasn't even living in yet?