Rental nightmare in coastal Cornwall (and coastal Devon, IoW)

[roundhouse]

On 02/08/2023 at 09:21, Frank Hovis said:

 

Tbf it's been really bad for years, as with the coastal towns.

The "solution" in most cases is moving to somewhere much less nice as that's going to be a lot cheaper and rentals are freely available: Liskeard, Camborne / Redruth and so on.  

Hmm @Frank Hovis what makes you think "rentals are freely available" in Liskeard???

The word "freely" isn't brilliant, let's rephrase to "what makes you think rentals are easily available in Liskeard"? Only 3 on rightmove atm, £700-800/mo for apartment or cramped 2 bed terrace. Add a mile and they include another several miles out of town down the A38.

My experience over 2021-23 was having to move lodgings several times - as far away as other towns as zilch available locally. Four different towns with a few rural in between, and towns in East Cornwall are 14 or so miles from each other. In a better rural place now thankfully, feel a bit more rooted/community. 

Several working people I knew then (single young and mid age families) had notice on their rentals and were one of many trying to get "selected" to rent anything that came on. Months and months and ending up sofa surfing. Trying to have a roof over your head becomes a daily obsession... all other life stalls. Maslow,s pyramid etc.

Some rentals in Liskeard became hol lets, in Liskeard ffs! 

I know it has a reputation for being as you say "less desirable", but Liskeard has a fair amount of character and history too. 

[Frank Hovis]

1 hour ago, roundhouse said:

Hmm @Frank Hovis what makes you think "rentals are freely available" in Liskeard???

The word "freely" isn't brilliant, let's rephrase to "what makes you think rentals are easily available in Liskeard"? Only 3 on rightmove atm, £700-800/mo for apartment or cramped 2 bed terrace. Add a mile and they include another several miles out of town down the A38.

My experience over 2021-23 was having to move lodgings several times - as far away as other towns as zilch available locally. Four different towns with a few rural in between, and towns in East Cornwall are 14 or so miles from each other. In a better rural place now thankfully, feel a bit more rooted/community. 

Several working people I knew then (single young and mid age families) had notice on their rentals and were one of many trying to get "selected" to rent anything that came on. Months and months and ending up sofa surfing. Trying to have a roof over your head becomes a daily obsession... all other life stalls. Maslow,s pyramid etc.

Some rentals in Liskeard became hol lets, in Liskeard ffs! 

I know it has a reputation for being as you say "less desirable", but Liskeard has a fair amount of character and history too. 

 

All very true, I was talking relative for Cornwall.

[BWW]

On 02/08/2023 at 08:49, Frank Hovis said:

Council reduced to begging for somehwere to rent for three elderly women made homeless by a fire.

 

"The three women, one of whom is 91, were forced to leave all their belongings behind when they were evacuated from the Enys Quay retirement housing and, despite the best efforts of the City Council and its partners, so far we have not been able to find any suitable accommodation for them in the city.

"All three women are currently in temporary emergency accommodation in other parts of Cornwall but all desperately want to return to Truro as soon as possible. We would like to hear from anyone who has a flat or any other single unit in the city which is available for use now.

"The units will need to be fully furnished. One of the women has mobility issues and so would need ground floor accommodation.

https://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/23694677.truro-city-council-looking-housing-women-fire/

 

This is ridiculously bad, as bad as it was during lockdown and I keep seeing appeals for rentals in seaside towns.

I know it's the town council but they will be in contact with Cornwall Council housing and also HAs and there is not a single place in Truro suitable for these people.

As I recall the rules and tax situation for furnishing a rental is now even more dire for a landlord than the rest of the sorry unattractive mess they've created by adding a hodge podge of measures over the last decade.

It's limited what you can deduct / how and everything will need to be replaced ever more frequently as they add ad hoc requirements.

Good luck to them finding a private ll to help. Time for tenants to start screaming at government about the effect their LL unfreindly policies have.

Those who think making LLs corporate are not going to like the result either. Look at the student flats (tiny expensive little boxes) now being used to house asylum seekers. Direction of travel HK cage homes. Also consider the rented homes with the biggest problems due to inadequate maintenance, low quality modern build choices combined with the way some tenants live. ashp or just undersized rads plus smaller window openings plus tenants who scatter wet washing throughout and never ventilate will only ever have one dismal redult.

Still at least they have a nice shiny high EPC cert.

[Frank Hovis]

18 minutes ago, BWW said:

As I recall the rules and tax situation for furnishing a rental is now even more dire for a landlord than the rest of the sorry unattractive mess they've created by adding a hodge podge of measures over the last decade.

It's limited what you can deduct / how and everything will need to be replaced ever more frequently as they add ad hoc requirements.

Good luck to them finding a private ll to help. Time for tenants to start screaming at government about the effect their LL unfreindly policies have.

 

Yes, what they're doing is pushing private landlords to the regulated standards of social landlords.

Social landlords however receive grant funding for building their houses, and for some retorfit, and more crucially are not trying to extract any money from the business.  They are expected to make a surplus but that will then be used to build more houses.  Social landlords also usually have the necessary economies of scale to do this, with thousands of houses it is easy to support the staff to maintain the houses and meet the regulations.

Nobody in their right mind is going to move into private renting now, accidental landlord or not.

Overall I see this as good thing as whilst there will be a reduction in the number of private rentals these homes will be all put up for sale, depressing prices and so making them affordable for those who could previously only afford to rent.

It will also make the current slide in house prices, which I regard as the beginning of a big crash, accelerate as there will be no RIO / Rent it Out option available to people wanting to sell, but only for what their house is "worth", since this will involve a whole host of red tape, bureaucracy and expensive essential works prior to renting it out that would put anybody off. And leaving it empty attracts much higher council tax than it used to do.

The only landlords left will be professional companies who can deal with all of this and those good landlords who were keeping their buildings fully up to scratch in the first place. 

Works for me.

[Wight Flight]

15 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

Yes, what they're doing is pushing private landlords to the regulated standards of social landlords.

Social landlords however receive grant funding for building their houses, and for some retorfit, and more crucially are not trying to extract any money from the business.  They are expected to make a surplus but that will then be used to build more houses.  Social landlords also usually have the necessary economies of scale to do this, with thousands of houses it is easy to support the staff to maintain the houses and meet the regulations.

Nobody in their right mind is going to move into private renting now, accidental landlord or not.

Overall I see this as good thing as whilst there will be a reduction in the number of private rentals these homes will be all put up for sale, depressing prices and so making them affordable for those who could previously only afford to rent.

It will also make the current slide in house prices, which I regard as the beginning of a big crash, accelerate as there will be no RIO / Rent it Out option available to people wanting to sell, but only for what their house is "worth", since this will involve a whole host of red tape, bureaucracy and expensive essential works prior to renting it out that would put anybody off. And leaving it empty attracts much higher council tax than it used to do.

The only landlords left will be professional companies who can deal with all of this and those good landlords who were keeping their buildings fully up to scratch in the first place. 

Works for me.

Can I borrow your roses tinted spectacles please?

[Frank Hovis]

2 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Can I borrow your roses tinted spectacles please?

 

Why do you not think that it will work that way?

Two out of the three BTL landlords I have known were on relatively low pay, one had work related accommodation and the other lived post-spearation in a rented flat less good than their BTL.  As ever, and I have said this many times, most people only understand two types of investment - cash deposits and property - and when they bought them even I would have said that their property pruchase was a better investment than cash.

Neither had the money to properly maintain their BTL property and both ended up selling them having made very little on them.

This is exactly what I am outlining above though with an increased motvation to sell as not maintaining them properly ceases to become an option.

Why you differ is possibly down to your social circle where people tend to be monied, these were a work colleague and a friend who were trying to make the most of what little funds they had in order to avoid a penurious old age.

I would suggest that latter category is more numerous with regard to BTL owners, if not for the largest volume of BTLs.

[roundhouse]

20,000 homes in Cornwall unavailable for locals to rent or buy. That's a phenomenal number for a permanent population of 570,300 (2021 census, up 7.1% from 2011). Double or triple council tax not enough disincentive, more needs doing. 

https://www.cornish-times.co.uk/news/more-empty-homes-in-cornwall-as-numbers-rise-in-england-653197

Long-term empty homes (ie empty more than six months), second homes and numbers in temporary accommodation in Cornwall, SW and England:

Oct 2023 - 2794 long term empty houses in Cornwall, up from 2494 a year before [up 12%]. Of which 126 [only] were private registered providers ie social and affordable rent.

SW: 23898 long-term empty, up 10.6% from last year.

Nationally [England only?] 261,000 long-term empty, up 5% and highest since 2011 excluding 2020 pandemic figures.

 

Registered second homes in Cornwall account for a further 13,140 homes. [How many unregistered?; does it include hol lets?]

263,000 registered second homes nationally [England only?]

 

100,000 families across the country in temporary accommodation.

[MightyTharg]

On 02/09/2023 at 10:47, Frank Hovis said:

 

Social landlords…more crucially are not trying to extract any money from the business. 

Ha ha ha. It’s a scam designed to enrich insiders and force house prices higher.
(unsurprisingly a few Jewish names there)

Places for People	David Cowans	162,200
Anchor Trust	John Belcher *6	202,000
Home Group	Malcolm Levi	137,000
Sanctuary Housing Association	David Bennett *24	213,000

[Red Debt Redemption]

On 03/12/2023 at 13:23, roundhouse said:

20,000 homes in Cornwall unavailable for locals to rent or buy. That's a phenomenal number for a permanent population of 570,300 (2021 census, up 7.1% from 2011). Double or triple council tax not enough disincentive, more needs doing. 

https://www.cornish-times.co.uk/news/more-empty-homes-in-cornwall-as-numbers-rise-in-england-653197

Long-term empty homes (ie empty more than six months), second homes and numbers in temporary accommodation in Cornwall, SW and England:

Oct 2023 - 2794 long term empty houses in Cornwall, up from 2494 a year before [up 12%]. Of which 126 [only] were private registered providers ie social and affordable rent.

SW: 23898 long-term empty, up 10.6% from last year.

Nationally [England only?] 261,000 long-term empty, up 5% and highest since 2011 excluding 2020 pandemic figures.

 

Registered second homes in Cornwall account for a further 13,140 homes. [How many unregistered?; does it include hol lets?]

263,000 registered second homes nationally [England only?]

 

100,000 families across the country in temporary accommodation.

Of course its not, don't fill in electoral role, ignore when they post reminders through the door or knock and no double or triple council tax instead claim single person 25% discount.

Roflcopter clown world, I love it.

[onlyme]

1 minute ago, Red Debt Redemption said:

Of course its not, don't fill in electoral role, ignore when they post reminders through the door or knock and no double or triple council tax instead claim single person 25% discount.

Roflcopter clown world, I love it.

By quirk of timing was actually down in Cornwall when council official was going door to door in regards occupancy/electoral roll. So certainly something they are spending resources on beyond sending out the odd letter.

[Red Debt Redemption]

6 minutes ago, onlyme said:

By quirk of timing was actually down in Cornwall when council official was going door to door in regards occupancy/electoral roll. So certainly something they are spending resources on beyond sending out the odd letter.

Its the same as TV licence just ignore and close the door or camera and don't answer.

Best bit is it deprives the council of funding they get a certain amount from the government for every registration and then they spend money trying to get you to register with letters and or visits.

Edited January 4 by Red Debt Redemption

[Frank Hovis]

3 hours ago, onlyme said:

By quirk of timing was actually down in Cornwall when council official was going door to door in regards occupancy/electoral roll. So certainly something they are spending resources on beyond sending out the odd letter.

 

I have mentioned previously that I have been doing this every October for maybe the last six to eight years.

It has nothing to do with council tax.

Prior to Covid you would receive a knock if you hadn't returned your form despite a reminder.

From the start of the Lockdowns, and still this year, there has been no requirement to return the form if nothing has changed.

The number of addresses listed since this change have been much fewer, maybe a third of the previous number.

As you only get paid based upon the number of addresses this means that they are only spending maybe a third as much compared to 2019 and prior.

It isn't shared with the door knockers as to how these are selected but it seems to be drawn from land registry transactions and DWP information, though I am purely guessing based upon who is on the list.

Also the majority, possibly all, of such people are not council officials but generally retired people looking for a bit of interest, exercise and Christmas money.

As I again did it this year then maybe we met!

[onlyme]

29 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

I have mentioned previously that I have been doing this every October for maybe the last six to eight years.

It has nothing to do with council tax.

Prior to Covid you would receive a knock if you hadn't returned your form despite a reminder.

From the start of the Lockdowns, and still this year, there has been no requirement to return the form if nothing has changed.

The number of addresses listed since this change have been much fewer, maybe a third of the previous number.

As you only get paid based upon the number of addresses this means that they are only spending maybe a third as much compared to 2019 and prior.

It isn't shared with the door knockers as to how these are selected but it seems to be drawn from land registry transactions and DWP information, though I am purely guessing based upon who is on the list.

Also the majority, possibly all, of such people are not council officials but generally retired people looking for a bit of interest, exercise and Christmas money.

As I again did it this year then maybe we met!

Ah interesting. Vague memories of a discerning gentleman in a greenish  / tan jacket (was a brief encounter over the garden fence). Think it was end of 2022 and there would have been a reasonably recent change in ownership details on Land Reg.

[Red Debt Redemption]

2 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

I have mentioned previously that I have been doing this every October for maybe the last six to eight years.

It has nothing to do with council tax.

Prior to Covid you would receive a knock if you hadn't returned your form despite a reminder.

From the start of the Lockdowns, and still this year, there has been no requirement to return the form if nothing has changed.

The number of addresses listed since this change have been much fewer, maybe a third of the previous number.

As you only get paid based upon the number of addresses this means that they are only spending maybe a third as much compared to 2019 and prior.

It isn't shared with the door knockers as to how these are selected but it seems to be drawn from land registry transactions and DWP information, though I am purely guessing based upon who is on the list.

Also the majority, possibly all, of such people are not council officials but generally retired people looking for a bit of interest, exercise and Christmas money.

As I again did it this year then maybe we met!

It does have one thing to do with council tax they use that and credit profile info to determine if you should be claiming 25% single person discount or not and possible reclaim.

Imagine all those years you could have got 25% tax back Frank along with all your not paying tax on second hand goods.

Better return than BATs dividends. 

[Frank Hovis]

52 minutes ago, Red Debt Redemption said:

It does have one thing to do with council tax they use that and credit profile info to determine if you should be claiming 25% single person discount or not and possible reclaim.

Imagine all those years you could have got 25% tax back Frank along with all your not paying tax on second hand goods.

Better return than BATs dividends. 

 

Oh I get my 26%.

My worry is that first it will be scrapped and then they will start charging more for under-occupancy.

[One percent]

I was talking to a local bloke, odd jobbing builder, has one fhl so i trust he has his finger somewhere near the pulse. He said that forthcoming fhl booking for the coming season are non existent.  My response was, i thought it was poor last year.  He responded with, it’s much worse this year.  

[roundhouse]

1 hour ago, One percent said:

I was talking to a local bloke, odd jobbing builder, has one fhl so i trust he has his finger somewhere near the pulse. He said that forthcoming fhl booking for the coming season are non existent.  My response was, i thought it was poor last year.  He responded with, it’s much worse this year.  

Please tell me... fhl in Cornwall?

[One percent]

9 minutes ago, roundhouse said:

Please tell me... fhl in Cornwall?

Go north young man. 

[roundhouse]

9 minutes ago, One percent said:

Go north young man. 

Oh, ok. Not so young though, sadly.

[Frank Hovis]

11 hours ago, roundhouse said:

Oh, ok. Not so young though, sadly.

 

That would be Whitby.

The "staycation" market however appears to my reading to be national, if a let in Cornwall is £3k a week and one in Suffolk £1k a week then they're going to Suffolk. The Cornwall one then drops the price massively or stays unlet.

Or in the main they're going back to pre-Lockdown holidays abroad, which are much cheaper and with far better weather than holidaying in the UK.

Anecdotally I know several, make that two, people who paid through the nose for a week in a holiday let in Cornwall when holidaying in the UK was the only realistic option and they still resent being ripped off to that degree.

And in one sweet moment someone from upcountry converting a family home to a holiday let, pricing it at £1.2m based on the lockdown rental yield.  And actually ending up selling it for half a million less than that.  Tee hee.

[onlyme]

13 hours ago, One percent said:

I was talking to a local bloke, odd jobbing builder, has one fhl so i trust he has his finger somewhere near the pulse. He said that forthcoming fhl booking for the coming season are non existent.  My response was, i thought it was poor last year.  He responded with, it’s much worse this year.  

After our hottest year ever?  Surely not.

Can only  see more people desperate to leave the country for a week or two considering the state it is in, just to get away from it and forget about it for that short time. As related elsehwere interesting number (and type) of people on YT feed thinking the same on much more permanent lines.

[One percent]

11 minutes ago, onlyme said:

After our hottest year ever?  Surely not.

Can only  see more people desperate to leave the country for a week or two considering the state it is in, just to get away from it and forget about it for that short time. As related elsehwere interesting number (and type) of people on YT feed thinking the same on much more permanent lines.

I would think they want to get away from the global boiling the bbc said we had last year.  

[spygirl]

16 hours ago, One percent said:

I was talking to a local bloke, odd jobbing builder, has one fhl so i trust he has his finger somewhere near the pulse. He said that forthcoming fhl booking for the coming season are non existent.  My response was, i thought it was poor last year.  He responded with, it’s much worse this year.  

See - 

 

FHLers like to have their free money float of  10% deposit in the bank by end of Jan.

If they dont get the school summer holidays osold up in advance then they are forced to  play a waiting/discount game.

If the weathers shit then they wont let during the School summer holidays.

If you don't get Easter, Summer and 2 half terms let then you have no chance of hitting  HMRC FHL letting limits, losing the tax advantages they give.

 

 

 

 

 

[darkmarket]

3 hours ago, spygirl said:

If they dont get the school summer holidays osold up in advance then they are forced to  play a waiting/discount game.

I can't imagine taking school-age children to any UK holiday accommodation at the moment, paying hundreds a night and hoping you won't have an inbred afghan junky next door. Not worth it.

The income taken by some will reflect in lost bookings for others.

[Wight Flight]

1 hour ago, darkmarket said:

I can't imagine taking school-age children to any UK holiday accommodation at the moment, paying hundreds a night and hoping you won't have an inbred afghan junky next door. Not worth it.

The income taken by some will reflect in lost bookings for others.

You would be OK here.

But for a family of four you will be dropping £150 a day doing a morning activity (Zoo etc), beach afternoon if sunny (or £30 on the pier if not) plus light lunch and dinner.

Add in the £300 ferry and £1,500 on accommodation and you have a the best part of £3k for a week.

Or you can go to an all inclusive in Turkey with its own waterpark for less.

I Know what I would choose.