The Big Short Time and Furnished Holiday Let thread ...

[spygirl]

3 hours ago, One percent said:

This article is completely at odds with your figures (not that I’m doubting you, pointing out that it’s not clear cut). 
 

https://www.taxassist.co.uk/resources/articles/tax-and-rule-changes-holiday-home-owners-need-to-know

 

Rules from 1st April 2023

Properties are self-catering and subject to business rates where it's:

England

• available to let for short periods for at least 140 nights in total over the current and previous tax years
• actually let for at least 70 nights in the last 12 months

Wales

• available to let for short periods for at least 252 nights in total over the current and previous tax years
• actually let for at least 182 nights in the last 12 months

Different rules apply in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

 

They are wrong. Very wrong.

They've managed to mangled the old rules, never mind correctly stated the new rules.

Again, there's so much piss poor advice n BS on FHL.

My link is the HMRC page.

[Wight Flight]

3 minutes ago, spygirl said:

They are wrong. Very wrong.

They've managed to mangled the old rules, never mind correctly stated the new rules.

Again, there's so much piss poor advice n BS on FHL.

My link is the HMRC page.

You have also misread the rules.

It has to be available, not actually let, for 210 days.

Quote

You must let the property commercially as furnished holiday accommodation to the public for at least 105 days in the year (70 days for the tax year 2011 to 2012 and earlier).

From your link.

[spygirl]

3 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

You have also misread the rules.

It has to be available, not actually let, for 210 days.

From your link.

Told you know one knows...

I copied the availability, not the letting days ....

Point still stands, going from let for 70d ( 10 week) which is school summer plus Easter n 2 half terms, to having to be let for 105d, 5 more weeks, is a big jump.

To get those extra weeks you need to discount, which becomes an issue of you've a Fhl mortgage.

Again, one crappy stretch of weather n people cancel.

[Wight Flight]

17 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Told you know one knows...

I copied the availability, not the letting days ....

Point still stands, going from let for 70d ( 10 week) which is school summer plus Easter n 2 half terms, to having to be let for 105d, 5 more weeks, is a big jump.

To get those extra weeks you need to discount, which becomes an issue of you've a Fhl mortgage.

Again, one crappy stretch of weather n people cancel.

I am already seeing more FHL properties coming back in to the longer term rental market.

probably because they aren't getting the bookings.

hopefully many more will follow.

[spygirl]

2 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

I am already seeing more FHL properties coming back in to the longer term rental market.

probably because they aren't getting the bookings.

hopefully many more will follow.

In my hime village, the old, bottom half hollowed out after WW2 - limited work, lots of cottages were falling off cliff.

Families moved to the new bit up top or slightly further away.

A lot of old family cottages were kept n let on on a very rough n ready n cheap deal.

The people staying were expected to tidy up for the next lot.

The future n fittings were, let's say, sparse. No faux nautical theme, a lot had the back alley used for storing pots n floats.

This lasted til early 80s, where the recession was so deep that even a cheap holiday at home was cancelled.

Alot of let's were then let to various scartters from Leeds, cheaply. I has loads of new school mates from various West Yorkshire shitholes, with rough, semi prossy mums.

This reversed in the 80s as the ordginal family finally sold up - wessies not paying rent - and were bought by the first wave of non local fhl owners. Pretty much everyone of these got financially reamed in tge 90s recession, having to sell up for a hefty loss.

 

 

 

[spygirl]

On radio again.

Presume its pretty much bakedi n now.

https://propertytribes.com/hunts-300m-raid-on-furnished-holiday-lets-t-127662615.html

Landlords braced for another tax grab by the Conservatives

MARCH 4, 2024 | MARC DA SILVA

https://propertyindustryeye.com/landlords-braced-for-another-tax-grab-by-the-conservatives/

FJL operators really arnt LL FS.

 

Agents and landlords reveal ‘extreme concern’ over Hunt’s tax plans

Reports over weekend reveal Chancellor hopes to raise £300m from private rented sector to fund his tax cutting.

https://thenegotiator.co.uk/agents-and-landlords-reveal-extreme-concern-over-hunts-tax-plans/

 

Both agents and landlords have flagged their alarm at the report, with NRLA’s Chief Executive Ben Beadle saying this morning that: “The Chancellor needs to address the chronic shortage of long-term rentals by attracting new landlords to the market.

“Squeezing holiday lets is not the answer. He should follow the advice of the Institute for Fiscal Studies and reverse punitive tax hikes which have stifled the supply of the homes renters desperately need.”

 

 

Again FHL are not LLs. Fuckwit

[spygirl]

• Tax Grab - rental sector may not be viable warns Propertymark

https://www.lettingagenttoday.co.uk/breaking-news/2024/3/tax-grab--rental-sector-may-not-be-viable-warns-propertymark

The chief executive of Propertymark has made an outspoken attack on the government in response to its latest attempt to extract still higher taxes from the rental sector.

Nathan Emerson says it’s “unacceptable” that there’s “constant aim being taken” at the sector.

His comments follow government leaks over the weekend which were published in The Sunday Times. The paper said that the Budget on Wednesday will contain what it called a £300m “tax raid” on the rental sector. 

Specifically it said: “The Chancellor [Jeremy Hunt] is to launch £300m tax raid on second home owners who make money from holiday lets in an attempt to make the [income tax cut] sums add up. He will abolish a series of tax perks for landlords who rent out their properties to short-term holidaymakers rather than long-term tenants.

“Although it represents another tax grab by the Conservatives, Hunt will argue it will help tackle the housing shortage in coastal areas and holiday hotspots such as Cornwall and the Lake District, where landlords are converting to holiday lets to benefits from generous tax perks, depriving local people of housing.”

In response, Emerson now says: “Propertymark are extremely concerned to see reports within the news of a rumoured £300m attack on landlords within the budget, all at a time when many have already left the sector and many more are just about holding on.

“Just like traditional homeowners, inflation and interest rates have hit landlords with force and there needs to be recognition from the UK government that to provide high quality homes, whether they be short term lets or longer-term housing, the system must be workable.

“It is unacceptable there is constant aim being taking at landlords to the point the viability of the entire system is becoming seriously questionable for both existing landlords and future investors.”

The Budget proposal has already won criticism from the National Residential Landlords Association

“The Chancellor needs to address the chronic shortage of long-term rentals by attracting new landlords to the market. Squeezing holiday lets is not the answer. He should follow the advice of the Institute for Fiscal Studies and reverse punitive tax hikes which have stifled the supply of the homes renters desperately need” says chief executive Ben Beadle.

“Scrapping the stamp duty levy on the purchase of additional homes would see almost 900,000 new long-term homes to rent made available over the next 10 years. This would lead to a £10 billion boost to Treasury revenue as a result of increased income and corporation tax receipts.”

 

Fuckwits all the way down FFS.

 

[AlfredTheLittle]

3 minutes ago, spygirl said:

On radio again.

Presume its pretty much bakedi n now.

https://propertytribes.com/hunts-300m-raid-on-furnished-holiday-lets-t-127662615.html

Landlords braced for another tax grab by the Conservatives

MARCH 4, 2024 | MARC DA SILVA

https://propertyindustryeye.com/landlords-braced-for-another-tax-grab-by-the-conservatives/

FJL operators really arnt LL FS.

 

Agents and landlords reveal ‘extreme concern’ over Hunt’s tax plans

Reports over weekend reveal Chancellor hopes to raise £300m from private rented sector to fund his tax cutting.

https://thenegotiator.co.uk/agents-and-landlords-reveal-extreme-concern-over-hunts-tax-plans/

 

Both agents and landlords have flagged their alarm at the report, with NRLA’s Chief Executive Ben Beadle saying this morning that: “The Chancellor needs to address the chronic shortage of long-term rentals by attracting new landlords to the market.

“Squeezing holiday lets is not the answer. He should follow the advice of the Institute for Fiscal Studies and reverse punitive tax hikes which have stifled the supply of the homes renters desperately need.”

 

 

Again FHL are not LLs. Fuckwit

This is the one tax rise that would be right (so they probably won't do it). It's crazy to use the tax system to encourage people to take houses out of residential use. 

[HousePriceMania]

37 minutes ago, AlfredTheLittle said:

This is the one tax rise that would be right (so they probably won't do it). It's crazy to use the tax system to encourage people to take houses out of residential use. 

They'll use it to incentives buying into the bottom of the pyramid scam, state sponsored ponzi in full flow. 

[onlyme]

1 hour ago, AlfredTheLittle said:

This is the one tax rise that would be right (so they probably won't do it). It's crazy to use the tax system to encourage people to take houses out of residential use. 

It was the perfect policy if if the political objective was to flood the country with migrtant labour and immigrants.

It gets too obvious if they are roaming the streets, living in tent cities or filling the hotels.

 

[MightyTharg]

19 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

You must let the property commercially as furnished holiday accommodation to the public for at least 105 days in the year (70 days for the tax year 2011 to 2012 and earlier).

Can you just let it to a mate for £1/day over the winter?

Doesn’t seem to be any requirement that they actually stay there.

[With a crooked smile]

On 04/03/2024 at 11:06, MightyTharg said:

Can you just let it to a mate for £1/day over the winter?

Doesn’t seem to be any requirement that they actually stay there.

I know this might upset some but do you think they actually check? Do you think HMRC have enough man power to stand outside checking your days off?

Its like the whole rubbish on here about holiday lets being all financed by cumberland and skipton - wrong because plenty of commercial lenders like Handelsbanken and Coutts lend to that sector and also wrong because most people just use a residential BTL mortgage regardless of wether they should or not.

When you get a BTL  mortgage you need to tell them you have a short term tenancy agreement in place. Who has this while they are in the process of buying a property? We just said yes and its for this amount per month. No one asked to see anything. Thats real world - not dosbods world.

Dont get taken in by the shit posting on here

Edited March 5 by With a crooked smile

[Bobthebuilder]

1 hour ago, With a crooked smile said:

Dont get taken in by the shit posting on here

Genuine question. Have you ever been inspected by HMRC?

[spygirl]

Yes they check.

There arent many FHLs.

 

 

[Bobthebuilder]

1 minute ago, spygirl said:

Yes they check.

There arent many FHLs.

 

 

I got inspected once but it was pretty straight forward as I was all above board, they only asked me about 10 questions. I have friends that weren't so lucky, they normally know what you are hiding hence the investigation, if you lie about it you are in shit creek, they can go back 20 years on property and reclaim anything due.

[With a crooked smile]

47 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

Genuine question. Have you ever been inspected by HMRC?

I've had the standard questions and occasionally been told I cant claim for the odd item in the way I have. 

My old man has attended interviews with HMRC (on behalf of clients).

[Bobthebuilder]

5 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

I've had the standard questions and occasionally been told I cant claim for the odd item in the way I have. 

My old man has attended interviews with HMRC (on behalf of clients).

That sounds a bit different to an inspection, with me the first thing I knew about it was when they knocked on my front door.

[With a crooked smile]

5 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

That sounds a bit different to an inspection, with me the first thing I knew about it was when they knocked on my front door.

I've known one person de register from vat and another that's going to do so in the future.

The ones that's done it had a terrible time with them.

Stickly I believe you are supost to pay back the vat on tools you have already claimed the vat back on or something like that. The guy who's going to de register I think next tax year has been deliberately buying stuff and will apparently say they reached the end of their useful life.

I dont know how that will go it's not something I've ever done.

[With a crooked smile]

48 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

if you lie about it you are in shit creek, they can go back 20 years on property and reclaim anything due.

It's very difficult to prove tho. If you've declared all the money who's to say whether the money from john smith was for one week or two?

Looking at peoples calendars round here I dont think it's an issue even February is fairly busy (jan is pretty much shut down in the lakes apart from the big corporates). 

Might be an issue in Cornwall but I doubt most of the FTHL lot will have difficulty. 

[Bobthebuilder]

6 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

I've known one person de register from vat and another that's going to do so in the future.

The ones that's done it had a terrible time with them.

Stickly I believe you are supost to pay back the vat on tools you have already claimed the vat back on or something like that. The guy who's going to de register I think next tax year has been deliberately buying stuff and will apparently say they reached the end of their useful life.

I dont know how that will go it's not something I've ever done.

The time they knocked on my door was shortly after I folded a LTD company and went sole trader, probably what kicked it in.

One of my mates had an awful time with them, they went through his loft and garage, and wanted receipts even for a 3 foot offcut of 4 inch soil pipe, it was fucking ridiculous.

7 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

t's very difficult to prove tho.

They don't have to prove anything, a long time ago I knew a lad who swerved the duty on some stock, he didn't have the money to pay the back dated duty, the cunts gave him 6 months prison.

[belfastchild]

9 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

They don't have to prove anything,

Yes, I was just about to post that. 'Heres what we say you owe us based on everyone else in your industry, you have 21 days to pay or set up a suitable payment plan' End of.

Mentioned before about getting a letter about payment owed with 21 days to pay even though the letter was dated 7 days before it came through my letterbox. Their mistake. I still had to pay it and put in a written complaint which would take 2 weeks to assess... although 4 months later they did pay me back but did go over my last 7 years accounts just to check 'they' hadnt made a similar mistake in the past. Genuinely that pause in the conversation was one of the longest 20 seconds or so in my life. Really didnt take in the first part of him explaining I was ok.

I know two people who have been forced to sell the house then bankrupted by them. They were fiddling mind but in the end that part of it didnt really matter, thats just what got them in in the first place. They probably could have paid back what they owed with selling houses/stuff etc but the fines/interest where what did for them. To be fair to HMRC, they did make a proper example of them as Im here posting about it some 15-20 years on. Both guys touching 60 now with not a pot to piss in.

[Bobthebuilder]

9 minutes ago, belfastchild said:

Yes, I was just about to post that. 'Heres what we say you owe us based on everyone else in your industry, you have 21 days to pay or set up a suitable payment plan' End of.

Mentioned before about getting a letter about payment owed with 21 days to pay even though the letter was dated 7 days before it came through my letterbox. Their mistake. I still had to pay it and put in a written complaint which would take 2 weeks to assess... although 4 months later they did pay me back but did go over my last 7 years accounts just to check 'they' hadnt made a similar mistake in the past. Genuinely that pause in the conversation was one of the longest 20 seconds or so in my life. Really didnt take in the first part of him explaining I was ok.

I know two people who have been forced to sell the house then bankrupted by them. They were fiddling mind but in the end that part of it didnt really matter, thats just what got them in in the first place. They probably could have paid back what they owed with selling houses/stuff etc but the fines/interest where what did for them. To be fair to HMRC, they did make a proper example of them as Im here posting about it some 15-20 years on. Both guys touching 60 now with not a pot to piss in.

I made an official complaint to HMRC during convid, they sent me a huge tax bill that I refused to pay. It took 18 months to sort out during which time they kept adding fines and interest charges. It got sorted out in the end but I still had to pay them more than I owed, they said this was for the current tax year and I had no other option than to pay it, got that back at the next tax return.

Funny you mention the blokes being skint, the lad I know who did 6 months used to have a big house with electric gates and a triple garage. Have not seen him in years but got told recently that he was seen running some metal into the local scrap yard.

I notice pro property posters on here who seem to openly talk about tax evasion, They don't seem to realise what a horrible process it is when they have their claws out for you.

[One percent]

1 hour ago, spygirl said:

Yes they check.

There arent many FHLs.

 

 

You've not been in the old part of Shitby or down the bottom of bay bank recently have you?   

[belfastchild]

5 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

They don't seem to realise what a horrible process it is when they have their claws out for you.

It was pre student loan days but I remember hearing about them having to tell their kids at uni in Scotland and England that they had to come home and get a job as they didnt have any money any more to support them.
Amex credit cards and a monthly allowance and all that jazz.
The losing the house, flash cars, fancy holidays to florida and all that stuff were the headline figures that most people think about but having to shop in places that took amex, getting approval for replacing broken toasters or other kitchen bits etc were the truly depressing aspects.

[Wight Flight]

3 hours ago, With a crooked smile said:

I know this might upset some but do you think they actually check? Do you think HMRC have enough man power to stand outside checking your days off?

No. But your pissed off neighbours do.

At least they do round here.