The Big Short Time and Furnished Holiday Let thread ...

[One percent]

2 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

who the f### buys a holiday let seven horus from where they live???????????

you can see the suckers looking and thinking that easy moeny

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/buytolet/article-12028273/Will-crackdown-holiday-lettings-wreck-returns.html

Will the crackdown on holiday lettings wreck your returns? Owners face tougher rules amid fears that boom is harming local areas

• Government wants to restrict holiday lets amid local affordability concerns
• Holiday lets are taxed as a business,  buy-to-lets are taxed as an investment 

For years, holiday lets were a lucrative investment – often more profitable than traditional buy-to-let properties. And they offer landlords somewhere to go on holiday in between rentals.

Popularity has soared with 2,500 limited companies established to hold holiday lets last year, compared with 1,323 in 2019, according to estate agency Hamptons. Owners have profited from rising demand for UK staycations since the pandemic.

But, the Government is seeking to restrict holiday lets amid concerns local residents are struggling to afford a home in popular tourist hotspots. So are they still worth investing in?

Great for mini-breaks... as well as tax breaks

A holiday let is a property that you own in addition to your own home, which you rent out to short-term tenants.

They are taxed as a business, unlike buy-to-let property, which is treated by Revenue & Customs as an investment.

That means owners enjoy far greater tax benefits than buy-to-let landlords. They can deduct more costs, including full mortgage interest, the cost of replacing fixtures and furnishings and ongoing expenses such as cleaning costs and utility bills.

Holiday lets are also subject to business rates rather than council tax, which can work out cheaper. However, business rates only apply to properties let for a minimum of 140 days a year.

Wales recently increased the holiday let occupancy rate from 70 days to 182 days, which means holiday home owners face higher tax bills if they can't meet the minimum occupancy rate.

Owners also face a lower tax burden when they sell a holiday home. They pay just 10 per cent on any profits made on the sale, under the Business Asset Disposal Relief. Buy-to-let landlords pay capital gains tax at 18 or 28 per cent, depending on whether they are a basic or higher-rate taxpayer.

Furthermore, income made from a holiday let can be paid into a pension, which helps owners save for retirement and reduce tax bills.

So how do the numbers stack up?

Holiday let owners turned over £24,000 last year on average, according to holiday rental agency Sykes Cottages. This is a 59 per cent increase in just two years.

However, costs will significantly eat into those returns. Average overheads are £7,400 a year, including cleaning, bills, maintenance, tax and marketing.

Sharon Olivero-Chapman, 46, used to be a buy-to-let landlord. But after she had a few bad experiences with tenants and spent thousands restoring properties that had been damaged, she switched to holiday lets. Since then, her rental income has ballooned. 'I would get around £700-£750 a month if I was renting a one-bedroom flat to a long-term tenant,' she says.

'But I get around £2,500 by having it as a holiday let. Obviously I have to pay the bills out of that, but even so the income is phenomenal. You hear horror stories of party animals and guests who trash a place, but I'm really careful about who I let in.'

Sharon owns 17 holiday lets in West Yorkshire and Cambridgeshire and also advises other landlords through her management company, SD Property Group.

Victoria Paterson, 48, bought a cottage in South Ayrshire, Scotland, two years ago. Although she earns a good rental income, she has found managing the property a challenge.

'It's been harder work than my husband and I expected but overall it's been a positive experience,' she says. 'It's a seven-hour drive from us in Lincolnshire and we can't just nip up if something goes wrong. You need a good network of people close to the property.'

Paterson, a soft tissue therapist, lets the cottage through Airbnb and Booking.com. She charges £85 to £120 a night and it has an occupancy rate of around 75 per cent.

Paterson bought the property for £185,000 with an interest-only holiday let mortgage, which is fixed at 6 per cent and costs her £643 a month.

Talking to my hairdresser the other week. She lives in a small ex council house in whitby. On an ex council estate. Put the house on the market and had an offer from some ‘living the dream’ idiot in KENT that was going to airb&b it. Good luck with that from nearly 300 miles away.  
 

anyhow, the town is dead atm.  There must be a lot of io idiots very worried out there. 

[GTM]

9 hours ago, sancho panza said:

That means owners enjoy far greater tax benefits than buy-to-let landlords.

Luckily for them the Government has absolutely no need to raise tax. Because taxing landlords is of course particularly unpopular with tenants and non-landlords and why would they look at a lightly taxed, illiquid asset which can't be moved out of the Government's tax jurisdiction.

Yep, a totally sustainable business model all round.

9 hours ago, sancho panza said:

but even so the income is phenomenal

Our current political parties just love letting "self-made entrepreneurs" keep more and more of the money they earn.

[sancho panza]

@Bobthebuilder with this one.

 

Jsut booked a neat little holiday with my friend who has a pad in Devon(the one you gave me th link for the apple trees for).Point is she said to me,jsut pick any day we're not booked up on cottages.com and that'll be grand.I go on and basically she's unbooked currently for msot of July and August.

Seems strange,place isn't expensive circa £100 per night for a cracking double bedroom place and two storey accomodation with nice lving rooma nd kitchen.20 mins form beach.

Going to be intersting to hear how any other holdiay places are going.

It's my pals first year and she said,the summer bookings are generally late notice but I'd be interested to hear what you're seeing/hearing?

alos @spygirl whats the word on how places liek Whitby are looking in terms of bookings?

[With a crooked smile]

9 hours ago, sancho panza said:

@Bobthebuilder with this one.

 

Jsut booked a neat little holiday with my friend who has a pad in Devon(the one you gave me th link for the apple trees for).Point is she said to me,jsut pick any day we're not booked up on cottages.com and that'll be grand.I go on and basically she's unbooked currently for msot of July and August.

Seems strange,place isn't expensive circa £100 per night for a cracking double bedroom place and two storey accomodation with nice lving rooma nd kitchen.20 mins form beach.

Going to be intersting to hear how any other holdiay places are going.

It's my pals first year and she said,the summer bookings are generally late notice but I'd be interested to hear what you're seeing/hearing?

alos @spygirl whats the word on how places liek Whitby are looking in terms of bookings?

I'm not really into 'I've been told' or 'people tell me' as this is largely made up.

Real world bookings for May and June guest house in Keswick below.

I'd say we are fairly typical and have spent nothing on marketing this year.

[Bobthebuilder]

9 hours ago, sancho panza said:

@Bobthebuilder with this one.

 

Jsut booked a neat little holiday with my friend who has a pad in Devon(the one you gave me th link for the apple trees for).Point is she said to me,jsut pick any day we're not booked up on cottages.com and that'll be grand.I go on and basically she's unbooked currently for msot of July and August.

Seems strange,place isn't expensive circa £100 per night for a cracking double bedroom place and two storey accomodation with nice lving rooma nd kitchen.20 mins form beach.

Going to be intersting to hear how any other holdiay places are going.

It's my pals first year and she said,the summer bookings are generally late notice but I'd be interested to hear what you're seeing/hearing?

alos @spygirl whats the word on how places liek Whitby are looking in terms of bookings?

My mate owns a pub in Dorset, he has 4 double rooms above, that are listed on the usual booking portals. I sometimes stay there at late notice if he has a free room, he was telling me last week that he is getting fully booked for the season now. The pub does evening meals and breakfast, so more of a hotel / inn than a holiday let.

[sancho panza]

2 hours ago, Bobthebuilder said:

My mate owns a pub in Dorset, he has 4 double rooms above, that are listed on the usual booking portals. I sometimes stay there at late notice if he has a free room, he was telling me last week that he is getting fully booked for the season now. The pub does evening meals and breakfast, so more of a hotel / inn than a holiday let.

Yeah I was surprised.shes booked pretty well for may June I wonder if its the portal she uses as she only has one.

2 hours ago, With a crooked smile said:

I'm not really into 'I've been told' or 'people tell me' as this is largely made up.

Real world bookings for May and June guest house in Keswick below.

I'd say we are fairly typical and have spent nothing on marketing this year.

Cheers for that Wacs.as I said to Bob her may and June are pretty well booked. Which is why it surprised me.

 

I think she's z got a great businesz going forward. She's twenty mins from the sea and the little house is gorgeous.only £100 per night. Its only got a double bed so we're setting up a tent in the orchard for me and couple of the kids. All in way cheaper than going abroad and a lot less hassle.

 

On another angle I know you have a few different businesses running and so may finance on a corporate level,  have you any knowledge or insight into how easily one man bands have been able to secure FHL finance? Who the main protagonists are etc? 

Edited May 24, 2023 by sancho panza

[sancho panza]

1 hour ago, With a crooked smile said:

I'm not really into 'I've been told' or 'people tell me' as this is largely made up.

Real world bookings for May and June guest house in Keswick below.

I'd say we are fairly typical and have spent nothing on marketing this year.

It's weird.her July has got booked up quite well over the last few days.but then her August is empty.But Sept pretty well booked.

 

Fascinating to me.

She pretty much let's cottages.com set the pricing I think.they take a whack but she says it's worth it to save all the hassle

[Bobthebuilder]

15 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

It's weird.her July has got booked up quite well over the last few days.but then her August is empty.But Sept pretty well booked.

 

Fascinating to me.

She pretty much let's cottages.com set the pricing I think.they take a whack but she says it's worth it to save all the hassle

Looks like she is doing well judging by those booked up dates.

Pricing I find a bit strange with these holiday lets, my mates place charges around £125 for two people per night including breakfast, and that's the price on the booking portal.

[sancho panza]

50 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

Looks like she is doing well judging by those booked up dates.

Pricing I find a bit strange with these holiday lets, my mates place charges around £125 for two people per night including breakfast, and that's the price on the booking portal.

So he basically lsoes 20% per booking?

She's working hard.She has a few pies running-shes a company director of a shop fitting firm and does accoutns for other companies.

I msut be honest.I think low leveraged UK holiday lettings could be a fantastic business at teh right price and risk/reward.

Leveraged is toast I think as the recession will flsuh out the weak hands.

When we're down seeing her I'll pick ehr brains and see how she's foudn it and let you know.

SHe has an old farmhosue with a little cottage next door.So it's a resi mortgage with permission to let I think.

I'm well excited about getting down there.See how the apple trees we got ehr are grwoing

Edited May 24, 2023 by sancho panza

[With a crooked smile]

2 hours ago, sancho panza said:

have you any knowledge or insight into how easily one man bands have been able to secure FHL finance? Who the main protagonists are etc? 

You'll here a load of balls on here but let's be honest everyone tells thr mortgage company it's a standard short term tenancy and gets a resi io mortgage. There are no checks.

Coutts are always advertising FHL mortgages a few others

[JoeDavola]

2 hours ago, sancho panza said:

I msut be honest.I think low leveraged UK holiday lettings could be a fantastic business at teh right price and risk/reward.

Agreed - one of the possibilities I'm bearing in mind to make my own eventual house purchase 'worth it' would be to see if it can also be used for seasonal holiday letting either of the entire property or a room within it. Also lodgers as a possibility.

Guess what I'm saying here is that I don't think the housing or overall accommodation shortage is going to end any time soon, I actually now doubt it will end in my lifetime, so taking advantage of that should be considered when weighing up a house purchase.

[sancho panza]

3 hours ago, With a crooked smile said:

You'll here a load of balls on here but let's be honest everyone tells thr mortgage company it's a standard short term tenancy and gets a resi io mortgage. There are no checks.

Coutts are always advertising FHL mortgages a few others

I remember you saying that now you mention it

 

Are you beginning to size up some properties you'd like on your books if there's an IO sell off?

Also I know your up in the lakes, has the guest house business remained strong despite air BnB ,has it taken out any marginal players. 

Down here in the Midlands it's mainly been city  guesthouses going under as premier Inn kills them off. Presume they're no that of that in SW or where you are?

[With a crooked smile]

1 hour ago, sancho panza said:

Are you beginning to size up some properties you'd like on your books if there's an IO sell off?

Also I know your up in the lakes, has the guest house business remained strong despite air BnB ,has it taken out any marginal players. 

Down here in the Midlands it's mainly been city  guesthouses going under as premier Inn kills them off. Presume they're no that of that in SW or where you are?

No not looking to buy more. Lots of change in my life at the moment. 

Stepson has moved to Canada for at least 2 years (has 2 year young person work visa). May not come back on a permanent basis.

I've just announced at work I'm completely leaving the tech industry. 

Starting up doing something quite niche that involves lots of face to face locally (outside of hospitality). I wanted to be working and well known in my local community. Difficult to say how things will go. I like a challenge but I'm looking to calm down and have more leisure time. The is the possibility I might employ a couple of guys 2-3 years into the future but ideally I'll keep stuff fairly small.

No pressure from airbnb really up here. There's plenty of them around but demand exceeds supply. My experience of airbnb is fairly mixed. I've stayed in some good places in Spain and also had an awful experience. Overall the bad experience has put me off using them again.

[With a crooked smile]

7 hours ago, sancho panza said:

It's weird.her July has got booked up quite well over the last few days.but then her August is empty.But Sept pretty well booked.

Actually mirrors what I've seen (had 3 bedroom rented out on airbnb before guesthouse)

August is always quiter than September. Old people stay away till kids have gone back to school. Lots of families go abroad.

Dunno tho it's an odd one.

[spygirl]

On 23/05/2023 at 23:53, sancho panza said:

@Bobthebuilder with this one.

 

Jsut booked a neat little holiday with my friend who has a pad in Devon(the one you gave me th link for the apple trees for).Point is she said to me,jsut pick any day we're not booked up on cottages.com and that'll be grand.I go on and basically she's unbooked currently for msot of July and August.

Seems strange,place isn't expensive circa £100 per night for a cracking double bedroom place and two storey accomodation with nice lving rooma nd kitchen.20 mins form beach.

Going to be intersting to hear how any other holdiay places are going.

It's my pals first year and she said,the summer bookings are generally late notice but I'd be interested to hear what you're seeing/hearing?

alos @spygirl whats the word on how places liek Whitby are looking in terms of bookings?

 

23 hours ago, Bobthebuilder said:

My mate owns a pub in Dorset, he has 4 double rooms above, that are listed on the usual booking portals. I sometimes stay there at late notice if he has a free room, he was telling me last week that he is getting fully booked for the season now. The pub does evening meals and breakfast, so more of a hotel / inn than a holiday let.

 

22 hours ago, sancho panza said:

Yeah I was surprised.shes booked pretty well for may June I wonder if its the portal she uses as she only has one.

Cheers for that Wacs.as I said to Bob her may and June are pretty well booked. Which is why it surprised me.

 

I think she's z got a great businesz going forward. She's twenty mins from the sea and the little house is gorgeous.only £100 per night. Its only got a double bed so we're setting up a tent in the orchard for me and couple of the kids. All in way cheaper than going abroad and a lot less hassle.

 

On another angle I know you have a few different businesses running and so may finance on a corporate level,  have you any knowledge or insight into how easily one man bands have been able to secure FHL finance? Who the main protagonists are etc? 

 

21 hours ago, sancho panza said:

So he basically lsoes 20% per booking?

She's working hard.She has a few pies running-shes a company director of a shop fitting firm and does accoutns for other companies.

I msut be honest.I think low leveraged UK holiday lettings could be a fantastic business at teh right price and risk/reward.

Leveraged is toast I think as the recession will flsuh out the weak hands.

When we're down seeing her I'll pick ehr brains and see how she's foudn it and let you know.

SHe has an old farmhosue with a little cottage next door.So it's a resi mortgage with permission to let I think.

I'm well excited about getting down there.See how the apple trees we got ehr are grwoing

A Ye Olde Inn/Pub with rooms is not a FHL.

With a pub, youve, hopefully, already got a business - pub n food. If youve a big enough  building - and most olde Inns are big then youve got a secondary income stream which, frankly, if you are running a coutnry pub youll need it.

Selling individual double rooms, by the day or two, is far easier then selling an entire house for 1w which is the FHL business.

Its also means that, unlike a BnB, you are not hanging aroudn all day, doign nothing.

And you are already payign rates. A change that is going to knock the shit out of FHL.

The only poblem with pubs is dealing wit hte PubCos that own most ofthem - If you win theyll icnrease the rent til you lose.

If Bobs mate owns the pubthen Kudos to him. I pexetc a lot of pub estate will be up forsale - PubCos cant keep so much under performing/empty building onthe book for long with higher IRs.

 

FHL always looks good - to someone whos not been thru the cycle.

If it was atrtactive business then banks would be lending to it. They are not. All the FHL near me is either Cumberland n Leeds BS. Thje big banks wont touch it with a barge pole - theyve still go the llate 80s experience in their risk book of memory.

Cumberland was one of the few BS with high FHL lending tht got thru the 90s crash. Their l;endign model saved them - theyd onyl lend out to FHL within ~10 miles of their HQ - or soemthing like that.

I mention that as loon near my mother has ~3m of charges from Cumberland on her FHL n AirBNB in Yawk and coast.

The Lakes is good bet as its popular and their isnt a lot competiion.

Theers also lots of daft asians whod dont do the sane thing, which is stay a few miles out and drive.

 

In short I dont think FHL is suitable to leverage. At best, you mgith get a good summer. Even then youve got a long perdio from Oct -> April where theres littl cash flow in.

How Whitby doing?

Have a look - 

https://www.home.co.uk/search/results.htm?TOWN_SEARCH=1&location=whitby&radius=2&page=3

Theres lot trying to sell up.

I picked this one, just cos It was the frist I stumbeldon when scrolling.

https://www.bridgfords.co.uk/properties/17149611/sales/WBY230048#/

2 sales found

Date	Price	Address
30/10/2013	£155,000	12b Sandgate, Whitby, YO22 4DB
20/08/2004	£150,000	12b Sandgate, Whitby, YO22 4DB

 

Kudos for ot paying much jn 2013.

Kudos if they shift it anywhere near 475k.

FHL are a pure ivnestment play.  You dont live in them. Theres no need to sell them if its making money.

Or this one -

https://www.myhendersons.co.uk/properties-for-sale/property/11791600-waterstead-lane-whitby

Theres sveral apprtmentfs hvoed into the Engine Shed, which has a logn scammy history.

Theers some fuckwit youtuber properdee ivenstors who bought the.

Ill dig it out later.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[With a crooked smile]

On 24/05/2023 at 10:33, sancho panza said:

It's weird.her July has got booked up quite well over the last few days.but then her August is empty.But Sept pretty well booked.

 

Fascinating to me.

She pretty much let's cottages.com set the pricing I think.they take a whack but she says it's worth it to save all the hassle

Interesting @sancho panza. I've just looked at my street in Keswick. I paid 400k for a house in the street in 2021 (i have seen a comment online that I paid under market value. Another house in the street sold same month a few doors down for 445k so possibly some truth.

This holiday let has 1 less bedroom than me and 1 less bathroom (I'm 4 bedrooms plus dedicated office 1 family bathrooms and 2 ensuites).

You hear a lot on here about only getting bookings in thr summer it being marginal etc. Presumably this holiday home is worth 400-450. Booked up pretty well through to end of Oct. Just over 900 plus per week in Sept. Not sure what it rents for in the summer.

Looks pretty profitable to me.

[spygirl]

London's oldest housing estate that's being taken over by Airbnbs where it 'feels like Glastonbury on the weekends'

Residents love the neighbourhood for its lively atmosphere

https://www.mylondon.news/news/east-london-news/londons-oldest-housing-estate-thats-27125130.amp

I bet they don't- if they've got a job.

 

[Phil]

55 minutes ago, spygirl said:

London's oldest housing estate that's being taken over by Airbnbs where it 'feels like Glastonbury on the weekends'

Residents love the neighbourhood for its lively atmosphere

https://www.mylondon.news/news/east-london-news/londons-oldest-housing-estate-thats-27125130.amp

I bet they don't- if they've got a job.

 

David looks a real twat imo.

[leonardratso]

10 minutes ago, Phil said:

David looks a real twat imo.

like an old lesbian?

[spygirl]

7 minutes ago, leonardratso said:

like an old lesbian?

I did think it was a lezza. Oneof the rare slim old ones.

 

[Phil]

7 minutes ago, leonardratso said:

like an old lesbian?

I admire you betterment of what was a feeble effort to make “ Dave” appear a nounce, should the twat be on this site. Bravo 

[leonardratso]

52 minutes ago, Phil said:

I admire you betterment of what was a feeble effort to make “ Dave” appear a nounce, should the twat be on this site. Bravo 

I actually know an old lesbian who could be daves twin sister, very similar in looks and build. Shes actually ok and doesnt pretend to be anything else, but daves down wiv da yoof id say.
Course its all just ad hominem pie in the sky attacks, dave might be perfectly sound.

Edited June 18, 2023 by leonardratso

[sancho panza]

George Gammon explains why Air bnB is introuble  Columbia due to wannabees renting then sub letting

hattip @Axeman123

 

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by sancho panza

[With a crooked smile]

On 15/05/2023 at 22:46, One percent said:

Put the house on the market and had an offer from some ‘living the dream’ idiot in KENT that was going to airb&b it. Good luck with that from nearly 300 miles away.  

So much negatively @One percent. A huge percentage of Lake District properties are managed via Sykes, Sallys Cottages, Cumbrian Cottages etc. They fully manage it for owners who i would assume live sone distance away. A friend of mine does general DIY with quite a few remote customers. 

I fail to see why someone couldnt self manage remotely. 

[One percent]

1 minute ago, With a crooked smile said:

So much negatively @One percent. A huge percentage of Lake District properties are managed via Sykes, Sallys Cottages, Cumbrian Cottages etc. They fully manage it for owners who i would assume live sone distance away. A friend of mine does general DIY with quite a few remote customers. 

I fail to see why someone couldnt self manage remotely. 

You completely miss the point. The problem is that this takes property from the housing stock, meaning it’s not available to locals to either buy or rent. These people are parasites.