The Big Short Time and Furnished Holiday Let thread ...

[sarahbell]

On 01/09/2023 at 20:05, One percent said:

You completely miss the point. The problem is that this takes property from the housing stock, meaning it’s not available to locals to either buy or rent. These people are parasites.  

Same effect of university expansion. Destroys housing market and changes the types of shop.

[spygirl]

2 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

But the tax on the fish and chip shops would cover the cost of the bins.

 

That would be rates which, FnC shops will pay.

However FnC rates  barely covers the cost of a cleaner to pick the FnC wrappers blowing around.

FHL are *MENAT* to pay for private rubbish collection.

HJowever all they do is buy a single council binbag per house.

By ~Tuesday, thats full, shoved out i nthe bin, and the genral cojncil bins are overflowing with FHL rubbish

A quick wiz thru the local FB pages - 

This is a the old church, way away from the village. Scarattes still leave their crap in it.

FHL waste supports large number of badgers.

From a Saturday - already stacking bags o nthe council bins.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[One percent]

6 minutes ago, spygirl said:

That would be rates which, FnC shops will pay.

However FnC rates  barely covers the cost of a cleaner to pick the FnC wrappers blowing around.

FHL are *MENAT* to pay for private rubbish collection.

HJowever all they do is buy a single council binbag per house.

By ~Tuesday, thats full, shoved out i nthe bin, and the genral cojncil bins are overflowing with FHL rubbish

A quick wiz thru the local FB pages - 

This is a the old church, way away from the village. Scarattes still leave their crap in it.

FHL waste supports large number of badgers.

From a Saturday - already stacking bags o nthe council bins.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And they wonder why they are universally disliked. 

[spygirl]

On 25/05/2023 at 09:15, spygirl said:

 

 

 

A Ye Olde Inn/Pub with rooms is not a FHL.

With a pub, youve, hopefully, already got a business - pub n food. If youve a big enough  building - and most olde Inns are big then youve got a secondary income stream which, frankly, if you are running a coutnry pub youll need it.

Selling individual double rooms, by the day or two, is far easier then selling an entire house for 1w which is the FHL business.

Its also means that, unlike a BnB, you are not hanging aroudn all day, doign nothing.

And you are already payign rates. A change that is going to knock the shit out of FHL.

The only poblem with pubs is dealing wit hte PubCos that own most ofthem - If you win theyll icnrease the rent til you lose.

If Bobs mate owns the pubthen Kudos to him. I pexetc a lot of pub estate will be up forsale - PubCos cant keep so much under performing/empty building onthe book for long with higher IRs.

 

FHL always looks good - to someone whos not been thru the cycle.

If it was atrtactive business then banks would be lending to it. They are not. All the FHL near me is either Cumberland n Leeds BS. Thje big banks wont touch it with a barge pole - theyve still go the llate 80s experience in their risk book of memory.

Cumberland was one of the few BS with high FHL lending tht got thru the 90s crash. Their l;endign model saved them - theyd onyl lend out to FHL within ~10 miles of their HQ - or soemthing like that.

I mention that as loon near my mother has ~3m of charges from Cumberland on her FHL n AirBNB in Yawk and coast.

The Lakes is good bet as its popular and their isnt a lot competiion.

Theers also lots of daft asians whod dont do the sane thing, which is stay a few miles out and drive.

 

In short I dont think FHL is suitable to leverage. At best, you mgith get a good summer. Even then youve got a long perdio from Oct -> April where theres littl cash flow in.

How Whitby doing?

Have a look - 

https://www.home.co.uk/search/results.htm?TOWN_SEARCH=1&location=whitby&radius=2&page=3

Theres lot trying to sell up.

I picked this one, just cos It was the frist I stumbeldon when scrolling.

https://www.bridgfords.co.uk/properties/17149611/sales/WBY230048#/

2 sales found

Date	Price	Address
30/10/2013	£155,000	12b Sandgate, Whitby, YO22 4DB
20/08/2004	£150,000	12b Sandgate, Whitby, YO22 4DB

 

Kudos for ot paying much jn 2013.

Kudos if they shift it anywhere near 475k.

FHL are a pure ivnestment play.  You dont live in them. Theres no need to sell them if its making money.

Or this one -

https://www.myhendersons.co.uk/properties-for-sale/property/11791600-waterstead-lane-whitby

Theres sveral apprtmentfs hvoed into the Engine Shed, which has a logn scammy history.

Theers some fuckwit youtuber properdee ivenstors who bought the.

Ill dig it out later.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Live on the radio now ....

Leeds BS to stop FHL lending in Norfolk and Yorkshire.

CEO on bizzyness bit.

I cant work out if the out if hes a lefty moron, or hes spinning cunt.

Leeds BS have been doing loads of lending far far up the risk profile.

Leeds Building Society to restrict holiday let lending in some parts of England

The society has worked with North Norfolk District Council and North Yorkshire Council to set up a 12-month trial.

https://www.standard.co.uk/business/money/leeds-building-society-to-restrict-holiday-let-lending-in-some-parts-of-england-b1141019.html

A view of Whitby, which is one of the locations where Leeds Building Society plans to restrict holiday let lending as part of a 12-month trial (Danny Lawson/PA)

@One percent

Then the report goes on and goes - Leeds BS have reported record profits ....

@sancho panza

Of course they will.

The profits are for nuts lending over 12 months ago.

This stuff will be going rapidly bad.

Give it 12 to 24 months and - Leeds BS report record losses/goes bust.

That leaves only Cmberland doing FHL lending.

I await their announcement  of stopping lending ... a few months before they go bust.

 

 

 

[One percent]

21 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Live on the radio now ....

Leeds BS to stop FHL lending in Norfolk and Yorkshire.

CEO on bizzyness bit.

I cant work out if the out if hes a lefty moron, or hes spinning cunt.

Leeds BS have been doing loads of lending far far up the risk profile.

Leeds Building Society to restrict holiday let lending in some parts of England

The society has worked with North Norfolk District Council and North Yorkshire Council to set up a 12-month trial.

https://www.standard.co.uk/business/money/leeds-building-society-to-restrict-holiday-let-lending-in-some-parts-of-england-b1141019.html

A view of Whitby, which is one of the locations where Leeds Building Society plans to restrict holiday let lending as part of a 12-month trial (Danny Lawson/PA)

@One percent

Then the report goes on and goes - Leeds BS have reported record profits ....

@sancho panza

Of course they will.

The profits are for nuts lending over 12 months ago.

This stuff will be going rapidly bad.

Give it 12 to 24 months and - Leeds BS report record losses/goes bust.

That leaves only Cmberland doing FHL lending.

I await their announcement  of stopping lending ... a few months before they go bust.

 

 

 

Anyone who borrows to fund a fhl needs their head felt.  You have absolutely no control over whether people book. 
another nail in the coffin, which I meant to post yesterday, is that Russia won’t let the British fish in their waters anymore.  The price of fish and chips will be through the roof. Given it’s the main thing sold in whitby, it’s going to put a lot of day trippers off.  
https://thefishingdaily.com/latest-news/russia-ends-decades-old-uk-fisheries-agreement-for-barents-sea/

[spygirl]

52 minutes ago, One percent said:

Anyone who borrows to fund a fhl needs their head felt.  You have absolutely no control over whether people book. 
another nail in the coffin, which I meant to post yesterday, is that Russia won’t let the British fish in their waters anymore.  The price of fish and chips will be through the roof. Given it’s the main thing sold in whitby, it’s going to put a lot of day trippers off.  
https://thefishingdaily.com/latest-news/russia-ends-decades-old-uk-fisheries-agreement-for-barents-sea/

British boat have not fished in Barent sea for decades.

All our cod n herring come from Norway n Iceland.

The fish do drift over and spawn inthe Brent, then swim back to sea off Norway n Iceland.

 

 

[darkmarket]

36 minutes ago, spygirl said:

British boat have not fished in Barent sea for decades.

That comes from the National Federation of Fish Friers. They said the opposite until now.

Quote

The National Federation of Fish Friers (NFFF) has warned the four key ingredients that make up a traditional fish and chip meal are deeply affected by the on-going conflict between Russia and Ukraine...

Up to 40% of cod and haddock comes from Russia - and Britain's sanctions on Russian white fish will make these North Sea supplies scarcer and pricier.

https://news.sky.com/story/food-shortages-could-force-a-third-of-fish-and-chips-shops-to-close-12613442

Quote

Last year, Sky News reported that up to 40% of cod and haddock consumed in the UK comes from Russia and Russian territory.

https://news.sky.com/story/russia-could-rip-up-barents-sea-agreement-with-uk-posing-threat-to-cod-and-haddock-supplies-for-fish-and-chips-13050772

Quote

Andrew Crook, president of the National Federation of Fish Friers, told Sky News: "British vessels have not fished in Russian waters for decades so it's a bit of a moot point.

https://news.sky.com/story/russia-pulls-out-of-fishing-deal-and-tells-britons-to-lose-weight-13078051

 

[onlyme]

10 hours ago, darkmarket said:

That comes from the National Federation of Fish Friers. They said the opposite until now.

https://news.sky.com/story/food-shortages-could-force-a-third-of-fish-and-chips-shops-to-close-12613442

https://news.sky.com/story/russia-could-rip-up-barents-sea-agreement-with-uk-posing-threat-to-cod-and-haddock-supplies-for-fish-and-chips-13050772

https://news.sky.com/story/russia-pulls-out-of-fishing-deal-and-tells-britons-to-lose-weight-13078051

 

A couple of years ago or so had a really good fish and chips, it was daytime so jsut chatting with the owner and asked where the fish came fropm. The reply being Russia suprised me at the time,  a lot apparently at time came from there.

[sancho panza]

16 hours ago, spygirl said:

Live on the radio now ....

Leeds BS to stop FHL lending in Norfolk and Yorkshire.

CEO on bizzyness bit.

I cant work out if the out if hes a lefty moron, or hes spinning cunt.

Leeds BS have been doing loads of lending far far up the risk profile.

Leeds Building Society to restrict holiday let lending in some parts of England

The society has worked with North Norfolk District Council and North Yorkshire Council to set up a 12-month trial.

https://www.standard.co.uk/business/money/leeds-building-society-to-restrict-holiday-let-lending-in-some-parts-of-england-b1141019.html

A view of Whitby, which is one of the locations where Leeds Building Society plans to restrict holiday let lending as part of a 12-month trial (Danny Lawson/PA)

@One percent

Then the report goes on and goes - Leeds BS have reported record profits ....

@sancho panza

Of course they will.

The profits are for nuts lending over 12 months ago.

This stuff will be going rapidly bad.

Give it 12 to 24 months and - Leeds BS report record losses/goes bust.

That leaves only Cmberland doing FHL lending.

I await their announcement  of stopping lending ... a few months before they go bust.

 

 

 

the similarity with 07 is getting quite mark twian.all the banks are reproting record profits.

for my simple mind we're in the pahse where the banks are benefiting form rising net interest margin and where the borrowers are remaining able to make the payments.

the pot is boiling away merrily.

the more intering thing is reporting standards which for BSs are low.I commented last yer in the bankinghtread that the data from the smaller BSs was poor ie no regional data etc.a friend in the game informs their reproting standards are lower and hence allows more of a cover up.

I have close knowledge of some deals done within my sphere of acqauntiance,where small BS's are getting in bed with some very risky projects where they are deep in the hole if the developers goes udner(developers put 15%-20% down and aware of the risks using ltd cos ie the BS will get it back)

Im rambling but going through the books you have to look at the off balance sheet vehicles for where the risk is.

you hve to laugh,the leeds may have many guiding aims but its memebrs best itnerests arent one of them.

https://www.leedsbuildingsociety.co.uk/your-society/

 

Edited February 23 by sancho panza

[One percent]

I’m not how much of an impact this will have. It will help the council pay those pensions though

https://www.northyorks.gov.uk/your-north-yorkshire/families-back-new-council-tax-premium-second-homes?utm_campaign=2698944_YNY February 2024&utm_medium=email&utm_source=North Yorksshire Council&dm_i=4BPJ,1LUIO,8087QR,7JCKF,1

 

Members of our full council have backed plans to introduce a 100 per cent premium for council tax bills on second homes in the county from April next year. 

The new scheme will effectively double council tax bills for second homeowners and means that North Yorkshire is one of the first areas in the country to progress with adopting the Government’s new measures. 

The policy will be adopted from 1 April next year, given the requirements under the new national legislation to give second homes owners a 12-month period of notice before the charges are applied. 

 

[spygirl]

8 hours ago, sancho panza said:

the similarity with 07 is getting quite mark twian.all the banks are reproting record profits.

for my simple mind we're in the pahse where the banks are benefiting form rising net interest margin and where the borrowers are remaining able to make the payments.

the pot is boiling away merrily.

the more intering thing is reporting standards which for BSs are low.I commented last yer in the bankinghtread that the data from the smaller BSs was poor ie no regional data etc.a friend in the game informs their reproting standards are lower and hence allows more of a cover up.

I have close knowledge of some deals done within my sphere of acqauntiance,where small BS's are getting in bed with some very risky projects where they are deep in the hole if the developers goes udner(developers put 15%-20% down and aware of the risks using ltd cos ie the BS will get it back)

Im rambling but going through the books you have to look at the off balance sheet vehicles for where the risk is.

you hve to laugh,the leeds may have many guiding aims but its memebrs best itnerests arent one of them.

https://www.leedsbuildingsociety.co.uk/your-society/

 

As far as I can tell, Lees BS did not do much, if any, FHL lending til after 2010.

Literally, when I ask the horde of Brassy Wessy trollopes how they bought their FHL - Captains Rest, Telescope Tower, Seagull Cottage ....

its always Cumberland or Leeds BS.

Cumberland never use to lend moe than ~10m miles (or another small radius) from its HQ i.e. only in Lake District.

 

 

[Pip321]

1 hour ago, One percent said:

I’m not how much of an impact this will have. It will help the council pay those pensions though

https://www.northyorks.gov.uk/your-north-yorkshire/families-back-new-council-tax-premium-second-homes?utm_campaign=2698944_YNY February 2024&utm_medium=email&utm_source=North Yorksshire Council&dm_i=4BPJ,1LUIO,8087QR,7JCKF,1

 

Members of our full council have backed plans to introduce a 100 per cent premium for council tax bills on second homes in the county from April next year. 

The new scheme will effectively double council tax bills for second homeowners and means that North Yorkshire is one of the first areas in the country to progress with adopting the Government’s new measures. 

The policy will be adopted from 1 April next year, given the requirements under the new national legislation to give second homes owners a 12-month period of notice before the charges are applied. 

 

If you own an empty property the rates go from an initial discount up to 400% over 4 years…..so the secret was just say it’s a second home. This will help cap that a little. 

NYCC are shit though…..I know 2 people who work there after they retired early. They got bored being retired and decided to start working again….one says it’s so easy she went full time.🤦🏻‍♂️

I am thinking of going for something part time there just to see. Apparently the coffee machine is great. 

Like you say I guess this extra money will pay for all those pensions….because it certainly isn’t be used on pot holes. 

In the US houses are sold for $2000 and renovated and sold for $300k on state programs for designed for developers to regenerate areas (Good Bones, tv program based in Indy)….the seller needs to sell  because holding costs are high, they end up just giving the property away. In the UK an old house in NYorks would currently never go for such a discount. 

[spygirl]

1 hour ago, One percent said:

I’m not how much of an impact this will have. It will help the council pay those pensions though

https://www.northyorks.gov.uk/your-north-yorkshire/families-back-new-council-tax-premium-second-homes?utm_campaign=2698944_YNY February 2024&utm_medium=email&utm_source=North Yorksshire Council&dm_i=4BPJ,1LUIO,8087QR,7JCKF,1

 

Members of our full council have backed plans to introduce a 100 per cent premium for council tax bills on second homes in the county from April next year. 

The new scheme will effectively double council tax bills for second homeowners and means that North Yorkshire is one of the first areas in the country to progress with adopting the Government’s new measures. 

The policy will be adopted from 1 April next year, given the requirements under the new national legislation to give second homes owners a 12-month period of notice before the charges are applied. 

 

Ive said on the Properdee thread - and this one that of of two changes will destroy FHL -

Needing planning for change of use

Removal of SBRR.

FHL should have always needed planning - you cant set up a pub in a house without planning permit. You should not be able to convert a house into a FHL.

Requiring car parking and approval for neighbours means FHL will become stuff where all resi have abandoned - the dark  damp yards, or new build -  that estate under viaduct.

 

 

 

 

[One percent]

5 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Ive said on the Properdee thread - and this one that of of two changes will destroy FHL -

Needing planning for change of use

Removal of SBRR.

FHL should have always needed planning - you cant set up a pub in a house without planning permit. You should not be able to convert a house into a FHL.

Requiring car parking and approval for neighbours means FHL will become stuff where all resi have abandoned - the dark  damp yards, or new build -  that estate under viaduct.

 

 

 

 

That horse has already bolted.  All the centre of whitby, bottom of bay, runswick, all over 90 percent none residential.  Even steers has gone.  

[spygirl]

14 minutes ago, One percent said:

That horse has already bolted.  All the centre of whitby, bottom of bay, runswick, all over 90 percent none residential.  Even steers has gone.  

Top of Steers is like a scummy boro street though ...

That FHL YP feature I PMed you .... 'Oh trades dont want to work on Steers palces ... the hill'

Nope, its leaving their van n tools at the top that puts them off.

 

 

[Wight Flight]

This one is weird.

FHL bod with a 2 month void needs cash?

Can you do a two month let?

https://www.onthemarket.com/details/13714859/

[spygirl]

12 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

This one is weird.

FHL bod with a 2 month void needs cash?

Can you do a two month let?

https://www.onthemarket.com/details/13714859/

Never discount the stupidity of people letting out houses ...

Unless there a very short works, requiring 2 months of lets then theyve no chance.

Too cold for a holiday

Too short for benefits.

 

[Wight Flight]

25 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Never discount the stupidity of people letting out houses ...

Unless there a very short works, requiring 2 months of lets then theyve no chance.

Too cold for a holiday

Too short for benefits.

 

And it is £1k per month overpriced.

 

[spygirl]

58 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

And it is £1k per month overpriced.

 

There a bloke in Whitby iy whos has a collection of scratty cottages.

Neish arrival -l ast ~15y

His ptich is cheap n cheerful (and no cleaning n grubby fixtures).

If you live in a council flat in Leeds and smoke and have 5 dogs its like a home from home.

However ... if dont .....

 

 

 

[One percent]

2 minutes ago, spygirl said:

There a bloke in Whitby iy whos has a collection of scratty cottages.

Neish arrival -l ast ~15y

His ptich is cheap n cheerful (and no cleaning n grubby fixtures).

If you live in a council flat in Leeds and smoke and have 5 dogs its like a home from home.

However ... if dont .....

 

 

 

Discovery bloke?   He seems to have an awful lot of properties.  I wonder how leveraged they are.  

[spygirl]

3 minutes ago, One percent said:

Discovery bloke?   He seems to have an awful lot of properties.  I wonder how leveraged they are.  

One with the van.

Whitby Holiday Cottages

Hes gone from TripAdvisor.

The reviews weer, err, interesting.

 

[spygirl]

Bear in mind its budget. Theres lots of lobbying happening - dont tax me. Tax them!

No subs, so just what I hear on radio and the google find -

Hunt has decided that one of the least controversial options to fund the personal tax cuts is to abolish the FHL regime. Many backbench MPs are supportive of the move and believe it will halt the trend of residential landlords switching to holiday lets.10 hours ago

 

And as usual the BTL morons mangle it -

https://www.lettingagenttoday.co.uk/breaking-news/2024/3/tax-raid-planned-on-rental-sector-in-budget--report

he Budget on Wednesday will contain a £300m tax raid on the rental sector according to a report this morning - a report thought to be the subject of a leak from government.

The Sunday Times says: “The Chancellor [Jeremy Hunt] is to launch £300m tax raid on second home owners who make money from holiday lets in an attempt to make the [income tax cut] sums add up. 

“He will abolish a series of tax perks for landlords who rent out their properties to short-term holidaymakers rather than long-term tenants.

“Although it represents another tax grab by the Conservatives, Hunt will argue it will help tackle the housing shortage in coastal areas and holiday hotspots such as Cornwall and the Lake District, where landlords are converting to holiday lets to benefits from generous tax perks, depriving local people of housing.”

Today the National Residential Landlords Association issued a broadside against the government.

“The Chancellor needs to address the chronic shortage of long-term rentals by attracting new landlords to the market. Squeezing holiday lets is not the answer. He should follow the advice of the Institute for Fiscal Studies and reverse punitive tax hikes which have stifled the supply of the homes renters desperately need” says chief executive Ben Beadle.

“Scrapping the stamp duty levy on the purchase of additional homes would see almost 900,000 new long-term homes to rent made available over the next 10 years. This would lead to a £10 billion boost to Treasury revenue as a result of increased income and corporation tax receipts.”

In the handful of places where FHL are a thing, they are hated by everyone now - resis, council even the Cons MP.

https://www.thescarboroughnews.co.uk/news/people/holiday-let-reforms-divide-local-candidates-in-scarborough-step-in-the-right-direction-vs-not-enough-4526873

A plan that would require landlords to get planning permission to turn a property into a short-term holiday let has been welcomed by some politicians while others said the scheme does not go far enough.

The new controls, which are set to be introduced in England from the summer, aim to tackle the issue of locals being forced out of their communities due to unaffordable housing.

 

Its less the unaffordable housing ting ... its the loss of revenue and the nuisance FHL cause to the shrinking pool of resis.

Giodt fucked up the SBRR by riasing it so FHL missed paying rates. This happened at a time where S24 was co9ming and the usual collection of properdee idiots were looking for another 'tax free properdee investment'

So they all piled in, after being told - FHL are tax free!!!!

HMRC had an active reverse FHL tax status in play before covid.

That was shelved, labour shortage and all.

The situation as made worse by Gov handing out a few 10k grants to FHLs during lockdown.

That grant was added to the treasuries total of lost tax/cost for FHL.

The treasury wil be creaming to claw that cash back.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[One percent]

2 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Bear in mind its budget. Theres lots of lobbying happening - dont tax me. Tax them!

No subs, so just what I hear on radio and the google find -

Hunt has decided that one of the least controversial options to fund the personal tax cuts is to abolish the FHL regime. Many backbench MPs are supportive of the move and believe it will halt the trend of residential landlords switching to holiday lets.10 hours ago

 

And as usual the BTL morons mangle it -

https://www.lettingagenttoday.co.uk/breaking-news/2024/3/tax-raid-planned-on-rental-sector-in-budget--report

he Budget on Wednesday will contain a £300m tax raid on the rental sector according to a report this morning - a report thought to be the subject of a leak from government.

The Sunday Times says: “The Chancellor [Jeremy Hunt] is to launch £300m tax raid on second home owners who make money from holiday lets in an attempt to make the [income tax cut] sums add up. 

“He will abolish a series of tax perks for landlords who rent out their properties to short-term holidaymakers rather than long-term tenants.

“Although it represents another tax grab by the Conservatives, Hunt will argue it will help tackle the housing shortage in coastal areas and holiday hotspots such as Cornwall and the Lake District, where landlords are converting to holiday lets to benefits from generous tax perks, depriving local people of housing.”

Today the National Residential Landlords Association issued a broadside against the government.

“The Chancellor needs to address the chronic shortage of long-term rentals by attracting new landlords to the market. Squeezing holiday lets is not the answer. He should follow the advice of the Institute for Fiscal Studies and reverse punitive tax hikes which have stifled the supply of the homes renters desperately need” says chief executive Ben Beadle.

“Scrapping the stamp duty levy on the purchase of additional homes would see almost 900,000 new long-term homes to rent made available over the next 10 years. This would lead to a £10 billion boost to Treasury revenue as a result of increased income and corporation tax receipts.”

In the handful of places where FHL are a thing, they are hated by everyone now - resis, council even the Cons MP.

https://www.thescarboroughnews.co.uk/news/people/holiday-let-reforms-divide-local-candidates-in-scarborough-step-in-the-right-direction-vs-not-enough-4526873

A plan that would require landlords to get planning permission to turn a property into a short-term holiday let has been welcomed by some politicians while others said the scheme does not go far enough.

The new controls, which are set to be introduced in England from the summer, aim to tackle the issue of locals being forced out of their communities due to unaffordable housing.

 

Its less the unaffordable housing ting ... its the loss of revenue and the nuisance FHL cause to the shrinking pool of resis.

Giodt fucked up the SBRR by riasing it so FHL missed paying rates. This happened at a time where S24 was co9ming and the usual collection of properdee idiots were looking for another 'tax free properdee investment'

So they all piled in, after being told - FHL are tax free!!!!

HMRC had an active reverse FHL tax status in play before covid.

That was shelved, labour shortage and all.

The situation as made worse by Gov handing out a few 10k grants to FHLs during lockdown.

That grant was added to the treasuries total of lost tax/cost for FHL.

The treasury wil be creaming to claw that cash back.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Woman on the radio has one (more) fhl.  Here response to being taxed “I’ll just put the weekly charge up. Innit”.  Good luck with that, I’m being told that booking are practically non existent atm.  

[spygirl]

3 minutes ago, One percent said:

Woman on the radio has one (more) fhl.  Here response to being taxed “I’ll just put the weekly charge up. Innit”.  Good luck with that, I’m being told that booking are practically non existent atm.  

Yeah, theres so many new entrants since 2015ish who just grasp the rules of the games.

Im trying to find a good article. Id guess the various 'advisors' have longed pulled them.

IN 2015 when the penny drooped, there loads of articles on BTL like -

Three major blows in 2015 for Landlords in the Buy-to-Let market

https://www.edwincoe.com/blogs/main/three-major-blows-in-2015-for-landlords-in-the-buy-to-let-market/

Do new stamp duty taxes mean bye-bye buy to let?

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/nov/28/stamp-duty-buy-to-let-autumn-statement

Now ifthe IO BTL cretins had read and udnestoo these then they could have exited with some ££

They didnt.

But these articles  were used by the FHL industry to promote FHL

After a few years you were getting -

Why holiday lets are replacing buy-to-let: Staycation boom means property investors are rushing to buy a British holiday home

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/buytolet/article-7329283/Holiday-lets-haven-savings-thanks-staycation-boom.html

However there was one suble but major change by Gidiot -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/furnished-holiday-lettings-hs253-self-assessment-helpsheet/hs253-furnished-holiday-lettings-2022

Your property must be available for letting as furnished holiday accommodation letting for at least 210 days in the year (140 days for the tax year 2011 to 2012 and earlier).

For the tax year 2020 to 2021 the availability condition is satisfied if the person has made the property available for letting as furnished holiday accommodation for at least 210 days in the year even if coronavirus (COVID-19) restrictions prevented the property from being used.

Moving from 140 days (20 weeks) to 210 (27 weeks) is a massive hit.

At 140day would could do - school summer and easter and two half terms - 10 weeks, plus the time between easter and summer (6 weeks) - if its not pissing down, and September and Most of October plus maybe a week at xmas/NY.

That extra 7 weeks is a killer.

The only way to get it would be to offer heavily discounted weeks breaks - you cant do it with weekend alone.

And if you discount then the lower let affects the average letting rate. And FHL mortgages have very strict yield hurdles. And youve got the mortgage to pay

https://www.cumberland.co.uk/business/mortgages/holiday-let

Total mortgage exposure of £2m with The Cumberland*

Now theres an AirBNB superhost round the corner from my mum. She was good enough to file accounts. Shes is on the the hook for over 3m from Cumberland.

Loan To Value	Loan Amount	Initial interest rate for 2 years	Overall cost for comparison	Discount from CVBR	Follow on rate	Fee	Type
Up to 75%	£75k – £2m	5.98%	9.3% APRC	3.76%	9.74%	£999	CoreFind out
Up to 75%	£75k – £2m	6.33%	9.4% APRC	3.41%	9.74%	£999	Specialist

Now imagine having business rates of roughly ~2x council tax to pay as well.

 

 

[One percent]

1 hour ago, spygirl said:

Yeah, theres so many new entrants since 2015ish who just grasp the rules of the games.

Im trying to find a good article. Id guess the various 'advisors' have longed pulled them.

IN 2015 when the penny drooped, there loads of articles on BTL like -

Three major blows in 2015 for Landlords in the Buy-to-Let market

https://www.edwincoe.com/blogs/main/three-major-blows-in-2015-for-landlords-in-the-buy-to-let-market/

Do new stamp duty taxes mean bye-bye buy to let?

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/nov/28/stamp-duty-buy-to-let-autumn-statement

Now ifthe IO BTL cretins had read and udnestoo these then they could have exited with some ££

They didnt.

But these articles  were used by the FHL industry to promote FHL

After a few years you were getting -

Why holiday lets are replacing buy-to-let: Staycation boom means property investors are rushing to buy a British holiday home

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/buytolet/article-7329283/Holiday-lets-haven-savings-thanks-staycation-boom.html

However there was one suble but major change by Gidiot -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/furnished-holiday-lettings-hs253-self-assessment-helpsheet/hs253-furnished-holiday-lettings-2022

Your property must be available for letting as furnished holiday accommodation letting for at least 210 days in the year (140 days for the tax year 2011 to 2012 and earlier).

For the tax year 2020 to 2021 the availability condition is satisfied if the person has made the property available for letting as furnished holiday accommodation for at least 210 days in the year even if coronavirus (COVID-19) restrictions prevented the property from being used.

Moving from 140 days (20 weeks) to 210 (27 weeks) is a massive hit.

At 140day would could do - school summer and easter and two half terms - 10 weeks, plus the time between easter and summer (6 weeks) - if its not pissing down, and September and Most of October plus maybe a week at xmas/NY.

That extra 7 weeks is a killer.

The only way to get it would be to offer heavily discounted weeks breaks - you cant do it with weekend alone.

And if you discount then the lower let affects the average letting rate. And FHL mortgages have very strict yield hurdles. And youve got the mortgage to pay

https://www.cumberland.co.uk/business/mortgages/holiday-let

Total mortgage exposure of £2m with The Cumberland*

Now theres an AirBNB superhost round the corner from my mum. She was good enough to file accounts. Shes is on the the hook for over 3m from Cumberland.

Loan To Value	Loan Amount	Initial interest rate for 2 years	Overall cost for comparison	Discount from CVBR	Follow on rate	Fee	Type
Up to 75%	£75k – £2m	5.98%	9.3% APRC	3.76%	9.74%	£999	CoreFind out
Up to 75%	£75k – £2m	6.33%	9.4% APRC	3.41%	9.74%	£999	Specialist

Now imagine having business rates of roughly ~2x council tax to pay as well.

 

 

This article is completely at odds with your figures (not that I’m doubting you, pointing out that it’s not clear cut). 
 

https://www.taxassist.co.uk/resources/articles/tax-and-rule-changes-holiday-home-owners-need-to-know

 

Rules from 1st April 2023

Properties are self-catering and subject to business rates where it's:

England

• available to let for short periods for at least 140 nights in total over the current and previous tax years
• actually let for at least 70 nights in the last 12 months

Wales

• available to let for short periods for at least 252 nights in total over the current and previous tax years
• actually let for at least 182 nights in the last 12 months

Different rules apply in Scotland and Northern Ireland.