The Big Short Time and Furnished Holiday Let thread ...

[leonardratso]

1 hour ago, One percent said:

You completely miss the point. The problem is that this takes property from the housing stock, meaning it’s not available to locals to either buy or rent. These people are parasites.  

how dare you, the locals are there to be milked and shot at by the landed gentry. They should have moved down south themselves and bettered themselves so they could then buy a property back in their hometown and let it to old lesbians who like the quaint village life, but dont like the smell of cowshit or constant rain/being snowed in.
You know what these places become anyway so its all academic, just hollowed out ghost towns with no local industry or point except to pander to fly by night holiday makers.

[One percent]

2 minutes ago, leonardratso said:

how dare you, the locals are there to be milked and shot at by the landed gentry. They should have moved down south themselves and bettered themselves so they could then buy a property back in their hometown and let it to old lesbians who like the quaint village life, but dont like the smell of cowshit or constant rain/being snowed in.
You know what these places become anyway so its all academic, just hollowed out ghost towns with no local industry or point except to pander to fly by night holiday makers.

I think my main beef is that they’ve turned once thriving communities into a kind of dystopian theme park but don’t charge for entry.  Walking around my home town, I often feel like some kind of exhibit in a zoo.  

[leonardratso]

11 minutes ago, One percent said:

I think my main beef is that they’ve turned once thriving communities into a kind of dystopian theme park but don’t charge for entry.  Walking around my home town, I often feel like some kind of exhibit in a zoo.  

well thats all i go to air-bnb in whitby for, to laugh at the locals through the bars and take potshots at seaguls from the top floors of the run down ramshackle hovel im renting for 6 hours.

[BWW]

13 hours ago, leonardratso said:

well thats all i go to air-bnb in whitby for, to laugh at the locals through the bars and take potshots at seaguls from the top floors of the run down ramshackle hovel im renting for 6 hours.

Do airbnb now do a short time rooms?

Asking for a freind.

[leonardratso]

12 minutes ago, BWW said:

Do airbnb now do a short time rooms?

Asking for a freind.

Dunno, doubt it, suppose you could leave after 6 hours if you found out you were next to one percent's house.

[BWW]

On 25/05/2023 at 09:15, spygirl said:

 

 

 

A Ye Olde Inn/Pub with rooms is not a FHL.

With a pub, youve, hopefully, already got a business - pub n food. If youve a big enough  building - and most olde Inns are big then youve got a secondary income stream which, frankly, if you are running a coutnry pub youll need it.

Selling individual double rooms, by the day or two, is far easier then selling an entire house for 1w which is the FHL business.

Its also means that, unlike a BnB, you are not hanging aroudn all day, doign nothing.

And you are already payign rates. A change that is going to knock the shit out of FHL.

The only poblem with pubs is dealing wit hte PubCos that own most ofthem - If you win theyll icnrease the rent til you lose.

If Bobs mate owns the pubthen Kudos to him. I pexetc a lot of pub estate will be up forsale - PubCos cant keep so much under performing/empty building onthe book for long with higher IRs.

 

FHL always looks good - to someone whos not been thru the cycle.

If it was atrtactive business then banks would be lending to it. They are not. All the FHL near me is either Cumberland n Leeds BS. Thje big banks wont touch it with a barge pole - theyve still go the llate 80s experience in their risk book of memory.

Cumberland was one of the few BS with high FHL lending tht got thru the 90s crash. Their l;endign model saved them - theyd onyl lend out to FHL within ~10 miles of their HQ - or soemthing like that.

I mention that as loon near my mother has ~3m of charges from Cumberland on her FHL n AirBNB in Yawk and coast.

The Lakes is good bet as its popular and their isnt a lot competiion.

Theers also lots of daft asians whod dont do the sane thing, which is stay a few miles out and drive.

 

In short I dont think FHL is suitable to leverage. At best, you mgith get a good summer. Even then youve got a long perdio from Oct -> April where theres littl cash flow in.

How Whitby doing?

Have a look - 

https://www.home.co.uk/search/results.htm?TOWN_SEARCH=1&location=whitby&radius=2&page=3

Theres lot trying to sell up.

I picked this one, just cos It was the frist I stumbeldon when scrolling.

https://www.bridgfords.co.uk/properties/17149611/sales/WBY230048#/

2 sales found

Date	Price	Address
30/10/2013	£155,000	12b Sandgate, Whitby, YO22 4DB
20/08/2004	£150,000	12b Sandgate, Whitby, YO22 4DB

 

Kudos for ot paying much jn 2013.

Kudos if they shift it anywhere near 475k.

FHL are a pure ivnestment play.  You dont live in them. Theres no need to sell them if its making money.

Or this one -

https://www.myhendersons.co.uk/properties-for-sale/property/11791600-waterstead-lane-whitby

Theres sveral apprtmentfs hvoed into the Engine Shed, which has a logn scammy history.

Theers some fuckwit youtuber properdee ivenstors who bought the.

Ill dig it out later.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Better / worse kudos still if they sell with 300k  profit, it's taxed at 10% with entrepreneurs relief. 30k tax.

second home or long term let mostly 28% cgt. 84k tax.

disbodders should be proud of the skinflintery use of gov regs.

54k less tax for airbnber.

[Axeman123]

I heartily recommend reading the full article...it has everything. The word Pogrom even gets an airing...

'I run short term lets in Edinburgh - everything I own depends on an end to this crackdown'

• The demonstration, outside the Scottish Parliament, comes less than a month before new legislation requiring all holiday lets to be licensed .

Quote

Short-term let owners and operators have gathered in Edinburgh to rally against new rules they say will "wipe out" the sector and destroy businesses.

The demonstration, outside the Scottish Parliament, comes less than a month before new legislation requiring all holiday lets to be licensed - and have planning permission if an entire property is being used - comes into force.

Pressure from within the tourism industry to pause and re-think the scheme has grown over recent weeks as the October 1 deadline edges closer; last week a cross-party group of 37 MSPs joined calls, urging Humza Yousaf to announce another delay, however this was quickly ruled out by the First Minister.

READ MORE - Residents in East Lothian town 'anxious in their homes' due to number of short term lets

"Save Scottish jobs" was chanted by the angry crowd on Tuesday (September 5) as those affected by the regulations held placards with phrases including 'destroying us will not fix the housing crisis' and 'are you a pogrom parliament?'

Property owners and others involved in the short-term lets gathered at the Scottish Parliament to rally against the introduction of a new licensing scheme in under a month. (Image: LDRS)

Linda McDonald-Brown, who manages 15 STLs across Edinburgh and East Lothian through her business Edinburgh Concierge Company, said she hadn't yet submitted licensing applications but would by the end of the month.

As of last week, only 278 had applied in Edinburgh.

Ms McDonald-Brown said she expected there to be "a flurry at the end of the month".

She said: "I think the council are going to go 'whoa'. They don't have the resources and I think they want to backtrack but they can't.

"Everything I own, my house and everything like that is totally built on my company."

However she said the council "are not giving licenses" and that the real intention behind the legislation is to "destroy the industry".

Short-term let owner Linda McDonald Brown said the new rules will "destroy the industry". (Image: LDRS)

She added: "They are literally banning people - they just want us gone.

"I don't think we ought to have planning in place, definitely not. They ought to just go for the licensing because many of us have been going for years so we don't need planning for a change of use."

What is happening where you live? Find out by adding your postcode or visit InYourArea

Scottish Housing Minister Paul McLellan said 6,323 applications for the scheme had been made across the country, claiming just over half have been issued with a licence "but none have been refused".

He said: "Over the last decade, the short-term sector has grown significantly and changed the nature which has brought economic benefits but also raised concerns about consistency of quality and the impact on local communities.

"Following to public consultations and independent researchers, Parliament passed licensing legislation in January 2022.

"All existing properties will need to have their application in before first of October to continue trading having had 20 months to apply."

Sheila Averbuch, who owns and runs several holiday lets in the capital alongside her husband Ralph, said the new rules imposed on the sector had had a "horrendous" impact on her mental health.

She said: "I'm not sleeping, my husband is not sleeping.

"We have a couple of self-catering properties in the New Town and the Old Town. These are not places that people would want to have domestic housing - this is prime downtown tourist Scotland.

"As far as I'm concerned, there's only question to be asked which is does the Scottish Government want to remove self-catering as an option for people to stay in Edinburgh or have a family holiday in Scotland?

"Unless they pause this legislation and talk to us we have to conclude that's what they want - they want to wipe out this sector.

"We have not yet applied, we did apply for something called a certificate of lawfulness and we got those but that was a very expensive, lengthy, confusing process.

"We are afraid to apply for a licence because 98 per cent of people are being refused.

"Anybody who tells you this regulation is about health and safety are lying. This is not regulation, this is decimation of the sector."

Debbie Klein, who owns one holiday let in Edinburgh, said she would be likely to get planning approval as she had run the property as holiday accommodation for over 10 years, but attended the protest "for everybody that isn't in my position".

She said: "This is unfair. I am a single parent with three boys. I downsized by own house in order to fund a short-term let in Edinburgh - my boys went without at the time in order for me to build up this business.

"The word pogrom means to destroy, to wreak havoc upon and to violently demolish.

"It's often associated with the Nazis and their treatment of the Jews, but if you look at the actual definition of the word, that is what they are doing to this sector.

"They are the parliament of pogroms. That is how I feel.

"Even if I wasn't a host, I would be here for my right to choice for my holiday and for everybody else's holiday.

"These are not second properties that sit empty for most of the year, these are businesses.

"My house was a product of right to buy from Margaret Thatcher which decimated our social housing stock.

"Every single council in the whole of the UK promised they would rebuild on the back of the money they made on that. They did not do that. It is not my problem, it is not anyone else's problem here to solve their housing problem.

"This is my pension, selling it is not a pension. And I will not sell."

Ms Klein said it took her "days" to get through the planning process.

"It's extremely, extremely stressful," she added. "I have filled out the licensing but have not submitted it yet, I'll be hanging back to see what happens here because I feel as though there should be changes made."

Mr McLellan recognised short-term let accommodation was "vital to Scotland’s tourism sector and wider economy" and said the regulations "aim to protect the reputation of responsible operators and ensure the sector is regulated in line with other accommodation such as hotels and caravan parks".

He said councils were "working pragmatically to support new licensees through the application process".

However property manager David Nicoll, who oversees 14 STLs in Edinburgh including one he owns, complained there was "no clear guidance" for operators who want to share their home with guests for part of the year and let it out entirely for the rest.

Mr Nicoll, 52, said: "I've asked too many different people and they can't give me a specific answer as to how many days they need to reside in the property and how many days they can let it out," he said.

He said his clients were "spending a lot of money to potentially fall flat on their face" and there was a "good chance" every single one will leave the sector if the legislation is not changed.

He said: "Some [properties] are being sold, some are going onto the long-term rental market - there's a mixture. Some owners haven't decided so they may sit empty until they see what the landscape is, because it seems to be constantly changing."

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/i-run-short-term-lets-27658888

[spygirl]

4 hours ago, Axeman123 said:

I heartily recommend reading the full article...it has everything. The word Pogrom even gets an airing...

'I run short term lets in Edinburgh - everything I own depends on an end to this crackdown'

• The demonstration, outside the Scottish Parliament, comes less than a month before new legislation requiring all holiday lets to be licensed .

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/i-run-short-term-lets-27658888

"Everything I own, my house and everything like that is totally built on my company."

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC592842

 

Company status

Dissolved

Dissolved on

26 February 2019

Company type

Private limited Company

Incorporated on

28 March 2018

[spygirl]

They are, err, popular - 

TW

TWOITC21 HRS AGO

"Short-term let owner Linda McDonald Brown said the new rules will "destroy the industry"

Great. 

EDITED

REPLY 18

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Comment by yesindeed1.

YE

yesindeed122 HRS AGO

These places need to be regulated, for the good of the communities and the tax payer.

 

[spygirl]

If they are so sure they're doing the right thing by running a STL and that they're compliant with all health and safety regulations, and that the other tenants in the building or street that they're operating in are OK with up to 365 sets of different neighbours coming and going over a year, then there won't be an issue. Planning permission will be granted, and licences will be granted. But they know that they have been so egregious in imposing these STLs on other residents that the likelihood of getting planning permission is small and they know they haven't been compliant with the rules and have most likely been running unsafe businesses for years so they won't get licences. Hence the panic.

They have been making money off of residents' misery for years. I had five STLs in my building in the Old Town (West Port) and it was a nightmare. None of the managing companies gave a toss about us. They rarely even replied to our complaints. The only times they did was when one of their cleaning staff tried to steal a package left on my doorstep and when they were seriously in breach of covid restrictions. I had to move.

For one of these owners to talk about pogroms in connection with STLs is frankly not only disgusting but offensive.

[Wight Flight]

Changes to rental rules are going to destroy the FHL market here.

Looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

[With a crooked smile]

30 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Changes to rental rules are going to destroy the FHL market here.

Looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

People have been  saying that about EPCs and B2L on here for ages. When you look into the actual government guidance on costs and exceptions it's nowhere near as bad as made out.

[Wight Flight]

5 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

People have been  saying that about EPCs and B2L on here for ages. When you look into the actual government guidance on costs and exceptions it's nowhere near as bad as made out.

Most of ours FHL for six months then rent for six months.

Do you not see a problem with that business model?

[eek]

On 06/09/2023 at 22:03, Wight Flight said:

Most of ours FHL for six months then rent for six months.

Do you not see a problem with that business model?

Yep - the houses will be kept empty during winter...

[Wight Flight]

2 hours ago, eek said:

Yep - the houses will be kept empty during winter...

A lot of money lost.

The winter is meant to pay for the summer.

[spygirl]

BBC article on outrageous treatment for people ...

Holiday lets selling up due to second home tax, MS says

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-67145360

in true BBC way they totally garble and dont explain the changes.

Businesses are having their "hearts ripped out of them" due to tax hikes on second homes, a politician has said.

Conservative Member of the Senedd (MS) Mark Isherwood said some were closing after councils were given powers to charge up to a 300% premium on second homes and holiday lets.

The removal of small business rate reduction is hurlting down the Treasuryy track.

This only brings forward whats coming.

Rules on self-catering accommodation being liable for business rates rather than council tax have also been tightened, and properties must now be let for at least 182 days to qualify.

Which bit of business paying business rates don the BBC grasp?

Lets look at  the poor people, whove been working for generations ...

Carol Smith, who has run Porth Y Dwr cottage in Ruthin, Denbighshire, as a holiday let since 2017 said she and her husband now plan to stop offering holiday lets and rent the property out instead.

...

But Robin Leatherbarrow, who has owned a five-bedroom holiday let in Colwyn Bay for four years, said others will be forced to close their businesses or raise prices - risking losing bookings.

Surely these morons didnt grab low rates n pension release and jump in?

 

 

Comedy name -

A survey by the Professional Association of Self Caterers found only a quarter of holiday let businesses believed they would reach 182 nights of bookings next year.

 

 

 

 

 

[One percent]

2 minutes ago, spygirl said:

BBC article on outrageous treatment for people ...

Holiday lets selling up due to second home tax, MS says

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-67145360

in true BBC way they totally garble and dont explain the changes.

Businesses are having their "hearts ripped out of them" due to tax hikes on second homes, a politician has said.

Conservative Member of the Senedd (MS) Mark Isherwood said some were closing after councils were given powers to charge up to a 300% premium on second homes and holiday lets.

The removal of small business rate reduction is hurlting down the Treasuryy track.

This only brings forward whats coming.

Rules on self-catering accommodation being liable for business rates rather than council tax have also been tightened, and properties must now be let for at least 182 days to qualify.

Which bit of business paying business rates don the BBC grasp?

Lets look at  the poor people, whove been working for generations ...

Carol Smith, who has run Porth Y Dwr cottage in Ruthin, Denbighshire, as a holiday let since 2017 said she and her husband now plan to stop offering holiday lets and rent the property out instead.

...

But Robin Leatherbarrow, who has owned a five-bedroom holiday let in Colwyn Bay for four years, said others will be forced to close their businesses or raise prices - risking losing bookings.

Surely these morons didnt grab low rates n pension release and jump in?

 

 

Comedy name -

A survey by the Professional Association of Self Caterers found only a quarter of holiday let businesses believed they would reach 182 nights of bookings next year.

 

 

 

 

 

And I bet those people aren’t from the area and have done very little research. I was told of someone from kent wanting to buy a property on abbots road for a holiday let.  

[spygirl]

I wish the media would sit down with a tax layer and get the FHL tax / cuncil tax right.

Andthey tell the concillros too, who are equally dumb.

North Wales enclave announces out-of-towners will have to pay DOUBLE council tax - as authorities across the UK clamp down on holiday lets

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12665921/second-home-owners-North-Wales-DOUBLE-council-tax.html

UKGOV just needs to end tis fuckwittery and remove SBRR from FHL and short terms lets.

[Wight Flight]

Nigel just about to cover this in Cornwall.

@Frank Hovis

[One percent]

On 25/10/2023 at 09:25, spygirl said:

I wish the media would sit down with a tax layer and get the FHL tax / cuncil tax right.

Andthey tell the concillros too, who are equally dumb.

North Wales enclave announces out-of-towners will have to pay DOUBLE council tax - as authorities across the UK clamp down on holiday lets

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12665921/second-home-owners-North-Wales-DOUBLE-council-tax.html

UKGOV just needs to end tis fuckwittery and remove SBRR from FHL and short terms lets.

When did bay become independent?   

[spygirl]

50 minutes ago, One percent said:

When did bay become independent?   

It's like Lichenstien. With chips.

[spygirl]

The coven of local FHL has met from NYE drinks.

This is a social, where they like to brag about hiw many of the next year theyve already got booked.

Really really down - worst in 15y..

[One percent]

10 minutes ago, spygirl said:

The coven of local FHL has met from NYE drinks.

This is a social, where they like to brag about hiw many of the next year theyve already got booked.

Really really down - worst in 15y..

Whitby was really quiet this holiday. I was in bay yesterday and it seemed busy. Dunno if they were staying or day trippers.  

[spygirl]

Just now, One percent said:

Whitby was really quiet this holiday. I was in bay yesterday and it seemed busy. Dunno if they were staying or day trippers.  

Xmas/NYE us normally.

There's been a lot if last minute cancels.

People will still come if booked but stay in for a meal rather than go out.

My coz from Layds! hubby n friends had a Raithwaite cottage - 80/h /night. Xmas to NY week.

I make that  320 x 7 = lot! Touching on all-inc somewhere hot.

[One percent]

There’s a significant amount of inaccuracy in this article but fhl and second homes once again making it into the legacy media. 
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12946321/Empty-homes-council-crackdown-Airbnb-holiday-lets.html