The Big Short Time and Furnished Holiday Let thread ...

[spygirl]

As promised to @sancho panza

This is not going to go into tourism n day trippers. Weve a thread on this.

Terminology,as Pols ,journos and councillors get them muddled -

FHL - Furnished Holiday Let. A house bought to let out, according to -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/furnished-holiday-lettings-hs253-self-assessment-helpsheet/hs253-furnished-holiday-lettings-2022

2nd Home - A 2nd residential home, bought by someone to use in addition to their main residence.

Short Term Let (STL) - A thats let out for much smaller periods that assured tenancy limit of 6 months.

- - - - - -

STL

Pre AirBNB STL used to mainly corporate leases where youd get shoved in a  flat for a few months. Cheaper than a hotel and you wont run up a massive bar bill. Youd barely have noticed a STL before AirBNB.

Since AirBNB theyve turned cites and holiday areas into hell holes.

The rules n regulation and taxes are  murky, at least the new entrants understanding.

No planning or registration is required.

If you own as an individual then youll have to pay income tax on the income.

STL is a cluster fuck of unpaid tax with lax tax bill pending.

AirBnB has driven STL around the globe. Its a fucking curse.

https://openjaw.com/newsroom/other-news/2021/09/27/barcelona-first-city-in-eu-to-ban-airbnb/

AirBNB is nothing more idiots jumping into regulation arbitration.

Id be very surprised if AirBNB survives the regulation thats being put on it.

In time, AirBNB will be nothing more than BnB site.

 

 

2nd homes come and go with the economy/lending.

They appeal to fckwits who go - Hey, why dont we buy a house in [coastal] and spend the W/E there.

LAs used to allow 2nd home owners to pay 50% ctax.

However the area is full of murky fuckwittery

Most start as 2nd home, then they are let to other family members for cash in hand. then they end up on holiday let or AirBNB.

Ive not noticed a huge change in 2nd home owners. However I suspect that many FHL are actually FHL.

 

FHL - The rules on these are complex. I cannot quite work out what HMRC  are intending.

FHL are businesses so dont pay ctax (resi tax). They ay business rates. However due to small business rate relief most FHL pay fuckall nadah.

The SBRR changes were n 2016, just at the same time as S24 kicked off.

A lot of people how 'missed' the BTL bang wagon, jumped onto FHL. There was a quite of lot of advisors doing the No tax! properdee investment pitch.

FHL have reached plague portions in the areas affected by them

Whitby has gone from sub 5% of property to 30%+. All in ~10y.

This is driven by fuckwits who go - property = investment, low rates and loose lending.

------

Where does the money come from?

All the big bank banks *hate* FHL lending. They got so burnt in the late 80s that FHL was basically banned, outlawed.

Local tome, the FHL lending is done by two banks -

Cumberland B and Leeds BS.

Cumberland is a funny one.

Years ago, it would only lend to property in Lakes. This rule prevented it from fucking up, the Lakes being a relative safe bet for holiday lets.

Let all banks, theyve chased riskier lending. Theres a loon round the corner from my Mum who's borrowed over 3m from Cumberland. Shes a LtdCO, so I can see the charges.

Leeds BS are just nuts. Theyve been outcompeted out of mainstream lending so are touching the stuff noone wants.

I reckon both BSes will blow up.

 

- - - - - - - - - - -

 

Whats going to happen?

FHL is very pre-cyclical lending. Everyone piles in when its good, then tries to sell when it goes bad.

UK holiday tend to be 2nd homes.

Come a recession, then UK holiday goes out of the window.

Even in the bets of times, the cash low from Sep to May is pretty dicey.

I personally dont think you can make money from FHL with any sort of leverage/debt.

In the 90s recession the losses on FHL were much higher than resi houses - 50%+.

This time itll be fun cos a lot of locals have joined in too, which i so fucking nuts in terms of risk reduction/diversification.

Im also expecting SBRR to be removed from FHLs.

Pols, jonros and hte locals have woked up to how liitle (none) tax FHLs pay.

The issue with any FHL or 2nd home is that the less FT resident in an area, the less public spending.

A 2 parents + 2 kids family attracts ~40k in public spending.

A FHL pays 0, yet requires a lot of public services - police, rubbish clearing, problems ithe LA.

 

 

2nd homes. Same as FHL, just tends to be less leveraged. Banks dont like 2nd homes.

2nd homes and FHL are very pro cyclical - go up a lot when its good, go down like a brick when its bad.

Both end up having to sell to resi borrowers on much lower incomes, so limited mortgage debt.

 

AirBNB - will blow up and HMRC have all the AirBNB owners contact details.

Banks wont lend for a AirBNB. Theres lot of people lying about their loan, which will bite them in the arse.

[One percent]

1 hour ago, spygirl said:

As promised to @sancho panza

This is not going to go into tourism n day trippers. Weve a thread on this.

Terminology,as Pols ,journos and councillors get them muddled -

FHL - Furnished Holiday Let. A house bought to let out, according to -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/furnished-holiday-lettings-hs253-self-assessment-helpsheet/hs253-furnished-holiday-lettings-2022

2nd Home - A 2nd residential home, bought by someone to use in addition to their main residence.

Short Term Let (STL) - A thats let out for much smaller periods that assured tenancy limit of 6 months.

- - - - - -

STL

Pre AirBNB STL used to mainly corporate leases where youd get shoved in a  flat for a few months. Cheaper than a hotel and you wont run up a massive bar bill. Youd barely have noticed a STL before AirBNB.

Since AirBNB theyve turned cites and holiday areas into hell holes.

The rules n regulation and taxes are  murky, at least the new entrants understanding.

No planning or registration is required.

If you own as an individual then youll have to pay income tax on the income.

STL is a cluster fuck of unpaid tax with lax tax bill pending.

AirBnB has driven STL around the globe. Its a fucking curse.

https://openjaw.com/newsroom/other-news/2021/09/27/barcelona-first-city-in-eu-to-ban-airbnb/

AirBNB is nothing more idiots jumping into regulation arbitration.

Id be very surprised if AirBNB survives the regulation thats being put on it.

In time, AirBNB will be nothing more than BnB site.

 

 

2nd homes come and go with the economy/lending.

They appeal to fckwits who go - Hey, why dont we buy a house in [coastal] and spend the W/E there.

LAs used to allow 2nd home owners to pay 50% ctax.

However the area is full of murky fuckwittery

Most start as 2nd home, then they are let to other family members for cash in hand. then they end up on holiday let or AirBNB.

Ive not noticed a huge change in 2nd home owners. However I suspect that many FHL are actually FHL.

 

FHL - The rules on these are complex. I cannot quite work out what HMRC  are intending.

FHL are businesses so dont pay ctax (resi tax). They ay business rates. However due to small business rate relief most FHL pay fuckall nadah.

The SBRR changes were n 2016, just at the same time as S24 kicked off.

A lot of people how 'missed' the BTL bang wagon, jumped onto FHL. There was a quite of lot of advisors doing the No tax! properdee investment pitch.

FHL have reached plague portions in the areas affected by them

Whitby has gone from sub 5% of property to 30%+. All in ~10y.

This is driven by fuckwits who go - property = investment, low rates and loose lending.

------

Where does the money come from?

All the big bank banks *hate* FHL lending. They got so burnt in the late 80s that FHL was basically banned, outlawed.

Local tome, the FHL lending is done by two banks -

Cumberland B and Leeds BS.

Cumberland is a funny one.

Years ago, it would only lend to property in Lakes. This rule prevented it from fucking up, the Lakes being a relative safe bet for holiday lets.

Let all banks, theyve chased riskier lending. Theres a loon round the corner from my Mum who's borrowed over 3m from Cumberland. Shes a LtdCO, so I can see the charges.

Leeds BS are just nuts. Theyve been outcompeted out of mainstream lending so are touching the stuff noone wants.

I reckon both BSes will blow up.

 

- - - - - - - - - - -

 

Whats going to happen?

FHL is very pre-cyclical lending. Everyone piles in when its good, then tries to sell when it goes bad.

UK holiday tend to be 2nd homes.

Come a recession, then UK holiday goes out of the window.

Even in the bets of times, the cash low from Sep to May is pretty dicey.

I personally dont think you can make money from FHL with any sort of leverage/debt.

In the 90s recession the losses on FHL were much higher than resi houses - 50%+.

This time itll be fun cos a lot of locals have joined in too, which i so fucking nuts in terms of risk reduction/diversification.

Im also expecting SBRR to be removed from FHLs.

Pols, jonros and hte locals have woked up to how liitle (none) tax FHLs pay.

The issue with any FHL or 2nd home is that the less FT resident in an area, the less public spending.

A 2 parents + 2 kids family attracts ~40k in public spending.

A FHL pays 0, yet requires a lot of public services - police, rubbish clearing, problems ithe LA.

 

 

2nd homes. Same as FHL, just tends to be less leveraged. Banks dont like 2nd homes.

2nd homes and FHL are very pro cyclical - go up a lot when its good, go down like a brick when its bad.

Both end up having to sell to resi borrowers on much lower incomes, so limited mortgage debt.

 

AirBNB - will blow up and HMRC have all the AirBNB owners contact details.

Banks wont lend for a AirBNB. Theres lot of people lying about their loan, which will bite them in the arse.

Good post. Where to start.  
agree that non-residential in whitby is over 30 percent. In the centre, I would put it above 90 percent. Seriously. As you say, one of the problems with non-residential is that public spend is negatively impacted. They only allocate money for such things as nhs on the number of full time residents. Same as for plod. Plod doesn’t have a chance when the smoggies and westies come out on the lash. 
 

i do a rightmove search of 15 miles. In the last seven days, one hundred properties have been listed. Of these, 32 are reductions.  It’s not going to end well. The town is quiet, very few people around. Few milling around today but not rammed

https://www.quaysidewhitby.co.uk/webcam-and-whitby/

 

i don’t see how airb&b is any different from any other holiday booking site  it’s not the booking platform that’s the problem, it’s the use of residential property for non residential use thats the problem  just tax it out of existence  

 

[sancho panza]

3 hours ago, spygirl said:

As promised to @sancho panza

This is not going to go into tourism n day trippers. Weve a thread on this.

Terminology,as Pols ,journos and councillors get them muddled -

FHL - Furnished Holiday Let. A house bought to let out, according to -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/furnished-holiday-lettings-hs253-self-assessment-helpsheet/hs253-furnished-holiday-lettings-2022

2nd Home - A 2nd residential home, bought by someone to use in addition to their main residence.

Short Term Let (STL) - A thats let out for much smaller periods that assured tenancy limit of 6 months.

- - - - - -

STL

Pre AirBNB STL used to mainly corporate leases where youd get shoved in a  flat for a few months. Cheaper than a hotel and you wont run up a massive bar bill. Youd barely have noticed a STL before AirBNB.

Since AirBNB theyve turned cites and holiday areas into hell holes.

The rules n regulation and taxes are  murky, at least the new entrants understanding.

No planning or registration is required.

If you own as an individual then youll have to pay income tax on the income.

STL is a cluster fuck of unpaid tax with lax tax bill pending.

AirBnB has driven STL around the globe. Its a fucking curse.

https://openjaw.com/newsroom/other-news/2021/09/27/barcelona-first-city-in-eu-to-ban-airbnb/

AirBNB is nothing more idiots jumping into regulation arbitration.

Id be very surprised if AirBNB survives the regulation thats being put on it.

In time, AirBNB will be nothing more than BnB site.

 

 

2nd homes come and go with the economy/lending.

They appeal to fckwits who go - Hey, why dont we buy a house in [coastal] and spend the W/E there.

LAs used to allow 2nd home owners to pay 50% ctax.

However the area is full of murky fuckwittery

Most start as 2nd home, then they are let to other family members for cash in hand. then they end up on holiday let or AirBNB.

Ive not noticed a huge change in 2nd home owners. However I suspect that many FHL are actually FHL.

 

FHL - The rules on these are complex. I cannot quite work out what HMRC  are intending.

FHL are businesses so dont pay ctax (resi tax). They ay business rates. However due to small business rate relief most FHL pay fuckall nadah.

The SBRR changes were n 2016, just at the same time as S24 kicked off.

A lot of people how 'missed' the BTL bang wagon, jumped onto FHL. There was a quite of lot of advisors doing the No tax! properdee investment pitch.

FHL have reached plague portions in the areas affected by them

Whitby has gone from sub 5% of property to 30%+. All in ~10y.

This is driven by fuckwits who go - property = investment, low rates and loose lending.

------

Where does the money come from?

All the big bank banks *hate* FHL lending. They got so burnt in the late 80s that FHL was basically banned, outlawed.

Local tome, the FHL lending is done by two banks -

Cumberland B and Leeds BS.

Cumberland is a funny one.

Years ago, it would only lend to property in Lakes. This rule prevented it from fucking up, the Lakes being a relative safe bet for holiday lets.

Let all banks, theyve chased riskier lending. Theres a loon round the corner from my Mum who's borrowed over 3m from Cumberland. Shes a LtdCO, so I can see the charges.

Leeds BS are just nuts. Theyve been outcompeted out of mainstream lending so are touching the stuff noone wants.

I reckon both BSes will blow up.

 

- - - - - - - - - - -

 

Whats going to happen?

FHL is very pre-cyclical lending. Everyone piles in when its good, then tries to sell when it goes bad.

UK holiday tend to be 2nd homes.

Come a recession, then UK holiday goes out of the window.

Even in the bets of times, the cash low from Sep to May is pretty dicey.

I personally dont think you can make money from FHL with any sort of leverage/debt.

In the 90s recession the losses on FHL were much higher than resi houses - 50%+.

This time itll be fun cos a lot of locals have joined in too, which i so fucking nuts in terms of risk reduction/diversification.

Im also expecting SBRR to be removed from FHLs.

Pols, jonros and hte locals have woked up to how liitle (none) tax FHLs pay.

The issue with any FHL or 2nd home is that the less FT resident in an area, the less public spending.

A 2 parents + 2 kids family attracts ~40k in public spending.

A FHL pays 0, yet requires a lot of public services - police, rubbish clearing, problems ithe LA.

 

 

2nd homes. Same as FHL, just tends to be less leveraged. Banks dont like 2nd homes.

2nd homes and FHL are very pro cyclical - go up a lot when its good, go down like a brick when its bad.

Both end up having to sell to resi borrowers on much lower incomes, so limited mortgage debt.

 

AirBNB - will blow up and HMRC have all the AirBNB owners contact details.

Banks wont lend for a AirBNB. Theres lot of people lying about their loan, which will bite them in the arse.

A super idea for a thread there spy.

I think the central threme youve identified is bang on ie regulatory abirtrgae or teh idea that by being an air bnb you can dodge all the rules that used to apply to B&B's in terms of fire safety,planning,environmental health for ktichen,busniess rates etc.

Runnigna furnished holiday lets you skirt the edges and not have any of the costs assocaited with a B&B/hotel.

There's also been a subtle willingness on the part of owners/lenders to ignore the uncomfortable truth that FHL/Air BnB carries a different level of risk.

 

this is where I'd pick up on the scoend theme and it's one closely related to the themes being discussed in the banking crisis thread and that is 'lender arbitrage' for want of a better phrase(and also tying in with regulatory).and thats where lenders are either willingly or unknowingly turning a blind eye to the risks involved with an industry ie lending at prime rates to borrowers and market sectors that should be carried at a far higher rate to reflect higehr default risk.

reality is that msot epople try their hardest to keep a main home.

from the anecdotals above,we're slooking at some holiday spots having a huge proportion of the recent buyers being what once upon a time were consdered marginal.

 

With reference to the Cumberland and Lees,I haven't covered thsoe yet in the BC thread.This last week I had a quick prepartory lookat Barcalys and it's ahrd to explain but when you look at that balance sheet,and then you comapre it to the BS's examined thus far eg Cov/Skippy/Yorks/Hinkley&Rugby,they look a world paart in terms of nuance and throughness.

The H&R jsut ddidn't publish some data that all the toerhs do on things like Stage 1 /Stage 2 data, BTL breakdown by region etc.Dread to think of what mmight be lurking there.Skippy iirc had BTL laons going from 2% in stage 2 at year end  2021 to 40%........I mean you dont have to be a maths specialsit to work out the direction of travel do you?

Which to me begs the question of where the even more marginal sections of the mortgage amrket that you've brought up ie FHL/STLs are presently? my suspicion is not in a good place.

 

It's great seeing these specialsit threads coming up so as the info isn't getting buried in the main thread where it's ahrd to reference.

When I look at cumberland and Leeds BS I'll psot the results here if anything releanvt comes up.

[sancho panza]

intereting link ehre highlighting how many more costs and risks B&B owners face over airbnb

https://startups.co.uk/guides/how-to-start-a-bed-and-breakfast-business/

Rules and regulation for a B&B business

You don't need a specific licence or qualification to open or run a B&B but there are areas of law you need to be aware of. It's important to bear in mind fire regulations from the outset as you will need to carry out a Fire Risk Assessment and may have to make some adjustments to the property as a result.

Before you put any concrete plans in place, it's best to consult with your local authority planning office. If your prospective B&B is situated in a tourist hotbed, it's highly likely the local authority will have a tourism plan, and they may take a dim view if you attempt to start your hotel outside the designated tourist area; it's prudent to check this at the outset, rather than waste thousands of pounds on a project which the local authority will never permit.

Furthermore, all extensions or significant alterations to your property need to be done by the book so make sure you have the appropriate planning permission from the local authority and adhere to building regulations before you start any work. Thankfully, you can apply for planning approval and building approval at the same time, so there's no need to go back and forth.

You may also need to apply to your local planning office for a change of use of your property if you're planning to have more than three guest rooms, or don't plan to live at the B&B yourself. This can take several weeks to be processed so it's important you make sure it's one of your top priorities if it applies to your business.

As running a B&B involves serving food you will need to follow rules on food safety. It's worth getting the environmental health officer round to inspect your kitchen very early on in the planning process as you may find you need to make some alterations which could affect your budget. David Weston recommends doing a food hygiene course which can be completed within a day or two. You can also obtain most of the information you need from the Food Standards Agency.

Depending on what kind of B&B you plan to run, there may also be some licences you need to apply for in order to provide certain services such as serving alcohol, playing music or providing a television in 15 or more rooms used by paying guests.

The big one you need to remember is registering with HMRC for tax purposes. You can run the business as a sole trader, which means you wouldn't have to register as a limited company or open a separate business account. However, you must register as self-employed within 100 days of starting to trade, and you will need to keep meticulous records of all business-related income and outgoings.

Running a home-based business also requires a range of insurance covers, including public liability. Explore the policies you may need in our ‘Insuring your business' channel.

[belfastchild]

9 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

intereting link ehre highlighting how many more costs and risks B&B owners face over airbnb

https://startups.co.uk/guides/how-to-start-a-bed-and-breakfast-business/

Rules and regulation for a B&B business

You don't need a specific licence or qualification to open or run a B&B

You need to have a certificate issued by Tourism NI here in NI. If you havent got one its an offense. Not a lot of airbnb'ers know that ;-)

[sancho panza]

23 hours ago, Axeman123 said:

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/more-holiday-homes-being-repossessed-120000149.html

Headline: More holiday homes are being repossessed, warns chief of Sykes Cottages

Who'd have thought one of the first things to get cut from family budgets would be an overpriced sty in a Whitby/Cornwall aribnb at £150 per night.

These FHL's are caught ebtweena rock and hard palce as spedning drops and rates rise,they're right up poop creek sans paddle I suspcet.

ANd then there's noone to sell to as all the FHL suckers have pushed out the lcoal OO's till prices get cut 50% +.

genuienly if I could find a viable way to shrot BS's,I'd be pricing the trades now.

[sancho panza]

9 minutes ago, belfastchild said:

You need to have a certificate issued by Tourism NI here in NI. If you havent got one its an offense. Not a lot of airbnb'ers know that ;-)

leads you to conclude that when th shtf ,the gubbermint will move to rpotect the tax/fee paying sectors that offer employment to locals.

[belfastchild]

1 minute ago, sancho panza said:

leads you to conclude that when th shtf ,the gubbermint will move to rpotect the tax/fee paying sectors that offer employment to locals.

Already are here. They have everyone on a register and sent out loads of stuff over the last few months about homeless, people needing 3 bed accom, refugees, asylum seekers etc. Offering to give them a flat rate etc.
Will be only a matter of time before its not an 'offer'.

[One percent]

12 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

Who'd have thought one of the first things to get cut from family budgets would be an overpriced sty in a Whitby/Cornwall aribnb at £150 per night.

These FHL's are caught ebtweena rock and hard palce as spedning drops and rates rise,they're right up poop creek sans paddle I suspcet.

ANd then there's noone to sell to as all the FHL suckers have pushed out the lcoal OO's till prices get cut 50% +.

genuienly if I could find a viable way to shrot BS's,I'd be pricing the trades now.

And don’t forget the massive hike in gas and electricity. If I’m paying that much, no way am I going to be cold. 

[spygirl]

3 hours ago, One percent said:

Good post. Where to start.  
agree that non-residential in whitby is over 30 percent. In the centre, I would put it above 90 percent. Seriously. As you say, one of the problems with non-residential is that public spend is negatively impacted. They only allocate money for such things as nhs on the number of full time residents. Same as for plod. Plod doesn’t have a chance when the smoggies and westies come out on the lash. 
 

i do a rightmove search of 15 miles. In the last seven days, one hundred properties have been listed. Of these, 32 are reductions.  It’s not going to end well. The town is quiet, very few people around. Few milling around today but not rammed

https://www.quaysidewhitby.co.uk/webcam-and-whitby/

 

i don’t see how airb&b is any different from any other holiday booking site  it’s not the booking platform that’s the problem, it’s the use of residential property for non residential use thats the problem  just tax it out of existence  

 

Councils have finally woken up to how much tax revenue and public spend they are missing out on.

When there was only a few places, concentrated in the bays n steers theyd not notice. 

When Whitby, the 2nd largest town in what was SBC went over 20% it was noticed.

Last 10y Whitby has had the biggest increase in housing since 60s-70s. Yet the towns FT pop has fallen.

Airbnb is a funny one. It's pure scammers now. People who dont register, lie to tge bank etc etc.

[One percent]

Just now, spygirl said:

Councils have finally woken up to how much tax revenue and public spend they are missing out on.

When there was only a few places, concentrated in the bays n steers theyd not notice. 

When Whitby, the 2nd largest town in what was SBC went over 20% it was noticed.

Last 10y Whitby has had the biggest increase in housing since 60s-70s. Yet the towns FT pop has fallen.

Airbnb is a funny one. It's pure scammers now. People who dont register, lie to tge bank etc etc.

Scabby council were in denial.  They had the number at 19 percent. Apparently, if it goes over 20 percent, it’s seen as a problem (not sure by whom) and they are expected to do something about it.  Dunno, just what I’ve been told. 

[spygirl]

2 hours ago, sancho panza said:

A super idea for a thread there spy.

I think the central threme youve identified is bang on ie regulatory abirtrgae or teh idea that by being an air bnb you can dodge all the rules that used to apply to B&B's in terms of fire safety,planning,environmental health for ktichen,busniess rates etc.

Runnigna furnished holiday lets you skirt the edges and not have any of the costs assocaited with a B&B/hotel.

There's also been a subtle willingness on the part of owners/lenders to ignore the uncomfortable truth that FHL/Air BnB carries a different level of risk.

 

this is where I'd pick up on the scoend theme and it's one closely related to the themes being discussed in the banking crisis thread and that is 'lender arbitrage' for want of a better phrase(and also tying in with regulatory).and thats where lenders are either willingly or unknowingly turning a blind eye to the risks involved with an industry ie lending at prime rates to borrowers and market sectors that should be carried at a far higher rate to reflect higehr default risk.

reality is that msot epople try their hardest to keep a main home.

from the anecdotals above,we're slooking at some holiday spots having a huge proportion of the recent buyers being what once upon a time were consdered marginal.

 

With reference to the Cumberland and Lees,I haven't covered thsoe yet in the BC thread.This last week I had a quick prepartory lookat Barcalys and it's ahrd to explain but when you look at that balance sheet,and then you comapre it to the BS's examined thus far eg Cov/Skippy/Yorks/Hinkley&Rugby,they look a world paart in terms of nuance and throughness.

The H&R jsut ddidn't publish some data that all the toerhs do on things like Stage 1 /Stage 2 data, BTL breakdown by region etc.Dread to think of what mmight be lurking there.Skippy iirc had BTL laons going from 2% in stage 2 at year end  2021 to 40%........I mean you dont have to be a maths specialsit to work out the direction of travel do you?

Which to me begs the question of where the even more marginal sections of the mortgage amrket that you've brought up ie FHL/STLs are presently? my suspicion is not in a good place.

 

It's great seeing these specialsit threads coming up so as the info isn't getting buried in the main thread where it's ahrd to reference.

When I look at cumberland and Leeds BS I'll psot the results here if anything releanvt comes up.

FHL is v specialist lending ... ie it's as risky as fuck.

And the main stream banks know it.

I went to find an article.

Googled holiday let mortgage.

This came up as the top sponsored link

https://www.cumberland.co.uk/business/mortgages/holiday-let?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=holiday_let_search&gad=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_473dIvFgRmf1WxYSarneY_jISJB-tUTWlFcYRwrIIIwjpQxa68DeJP_zRoCyVIQAvD_BwE

There isnt a single big, well known bank on the search.

Try it.

The fall out in the 90s was massive.

Yet tgeres prob 10x FHL this cycle, all from small banks n BSes.

They are fucked.

They are probably fucked now.

 

 

 

 

[spygirl]

3 minutes ago, One percent said:

Scabby council were in denial.  They had the number at 19 percent. Apparently, if it goes over 20 percent, it’s seen as a problem (not sure by whom) and they are expected to do something about it.  Dunno, just what I’ve been told. 

Theres little any council can do, other than whinge.

It's a ukgov issue.

Apply business rates, require planning.

Poof! Most goes.

 

[One percent]

6 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Theres little any council can do, other than whinge.

It's a ukgov issue.

Apply business rates, require planning.

Poof! Most goes.

 

If business rates, my understanding is that the money goes to central government.  

[spygirl]

Just now, One percent said:

If business rates, my understanding is that the money goes to central government.  

Its changed now.

50 50.

Now SBC is no more, NYCC has the Dale's money to go after too.

https://www.local.gov.uk/topics/finance-and-business-rates/local-taxation-council-tax-and-business-rates

Theres enough money to employ a team.

Then you can start on planning regulation, billing for this n that.

 

 

[One percent]

1 minute ago, spygirl said:

Its changed now.

50 50.

Now SBC is no more, NYCC has the Dale's money to go after too.

https://www.local.gov.uk/topics/finance-and-business-rates/local-taxation-council-tax-and-business-rates

Theres enough money to employ a team.

Then you can start on planning regulation, billing for this n that.

 

 

And the north yorks national park. They would be daft not to.  

[Bilbo]

4 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Its changed now.

50 50.

Now SBC is no more, NYCC has the Dale's money to go after too.

https://www.local.gov.uk/topics/finance-and-business-rates/local-taxation-council-tax-and-business-rates

Theres enough money to employ a team.

Then you can start on planning regulation, billing for this n that.

 

 

Does this not apply?

Small Business Rate Relief (SBRR)

Small business rates relief is awarded based on the rateable value of the property and the number of properties a business occupies. You can apply for small business rates relief if you occupy one property in England and the rateable value of that property is below £15,000.

[spygirl]

14 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

Does this not apply?

Small Business Rate Relief (SBRR)

Small business rates relief is awarded based on the rateable value of the property and the number of properties a business occupies. You can apply for small business rates relief if you occupy one property in England and the rateable value of that property is below £15,000.

Yes. Thats the problem.

SVR means fhl get under the 15k limit

 

[JoeDavola]

5 hours ago, belfastchild said:

You need to have a certificate issued by Tourism NI here in NI. If you havent got one its an offense. Not a lot of airbnb'ers know that ;-)

Even if you're just renting a room out via airbnb?

[belfastchild]

23 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Even if you're just renting a room out via airbnb?

Yep. Offering any overnight accommodation for money.

[One percent]

1 minute ago, belfastchild said:

Yep. Offering any overnight accommodation for money.

What if it’s a full-time lodger?  There is that weird rent a room tax dodge which a mate of mine is using to get round paying tax on her airb&b income. 

[belfastchild]

Just now, One percent said:

What if it’s a full-time lodger?  There is that weird rent a room tax dodge which a mate of mine is using to get round paying tax on her airb&b income. 

Lodger is fine, different scheme.

If you go through any agency and rent out to tourists (internal as well as external) then its certification here.

Airbnb will report income.

[One percent]

Just now, belfastchild said:

Lodger is fine, different scheme.

If you go through any agency and rent out to tourists (internal as well as external) then its certification here.

Airbnb will report income.

Ta. Weird how there are different rules in various parts of the uk. 

[sancho panza]

7 hours ago, spygirl said:

FHL is v specialist lending ... ie it's as risky as fuck.

And the main stream banks know it.

I went to find an article.

Googled holiday let mortgage.

This came up as the top sponsored link

https://www.cumberland.co.uk/business/mortgages/holiday-let?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=holiday_let_search&gad=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_473dIvFgRmf1WxYSarneY_jISJB-tUTWlFcYRwrIIIwjpQxa68DeJP_zRoCyVIQAvD_BwE

There isnt a single big, well known bank on the search.

Try it.

The fall out in the 90s was massive.

Yet tgeres prob 10x FHL this cycle, all from small banks n BSes.

They are fucked.

They are probably fucked now.

 

 

 

 

Intersting article here from the grauneisd...Heysus wept.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/jul/19/can-we-get-a-buy-to-let-mortgage-and-use-the-house-as-a-holiday-let

Q We are two women who are nearing our mid-60s and won’t get our state pensions until we are 66. I work in schools and earn very little while my partner is a graphic designer who now has very little work.

On the plus side, over the years we have invested in some buy-to-let properties and are lucky enough to enjoy great relationships with our tenants. We also have a furnished holiday let and are planning to buy another. We have had an offer accepted on the property in question but because it went to sealed bids, we ended up offering rather more than we should have. So we’re now trying to find a mortgage with a low interest rate before I stop work next year and am unable to get a mortgage of any sort.

We have been offered one by our mortgage broker but the rate is quite high. The rates for buy-to-let mortgages are much lower but the tax incentives for furnished holiday lets are better. If we took out a buy-to-let mortgage could we then rent the house out as a holiday let?

A To answer your last question first, no you couldn’t. Buy-to let mortgage conditions usually specify that the property is inhabited by the same tenant(s) under an assured shorthold tenancy for the duration of the tenancy. This is the opposite of a holiday property let to a lot of different tenants (aka holidaymakers) for two weeks or so at a time. And in the words of specialist independent brokers holidayletmortgages.co.uk “using a buy-to-let mortgage for holiday letting, without the express permission of the lender, constitutes a breach of mortgage conditions, which can have serious consequences including forced redemption of the mortgage and damage to your credit rating”.

Equally inadvisable is choosing to invest in a furnished holiday let rather than a buy-to-let purely on the basis of tax treatment. It is true that, with a furnished holiday let you can still deduct mortgage interest payments from rental income which, since April 2020, buy-to-let landlords can no longer do. However, this is only if your furnished holiday let is available to the public for a minimum of 210 days a year and actually let for at least 105 days a year.

Mortgage interest isn’t the only thing you need to take into account when assessing the pros and cons of each type of ownership. The costs of running a holiday let tend to be higher because of the turnover of tenants and the chances of getting a mortgage of more than 60% to 75% of the value of the property are lower than with a buy-to-let mortgage. So you’ll need to find more cash to put towards the purchase of a furnished holiday let than you would with a buy-to-let property. There’s also the fact that – as the tax rules recognise – a holiday let generates income for a limited time whereas a buy-to-let property has the potential to earn money for entire years at a time.

Iif you are determined to go down the furnished holiday let route and you are equally determined to find a lower mortgage rate, I suggest you switch to an independent broker that specialises in holiday let mortgages.

[wherebee]

You can criticise AirBNB all you like - all I know is that when travelling for work or pleasure, it guarantees I won't be in a hotel with rapist Abdul in the room next door.

That's priceless.