Property developers/housebuilders going bust

[spunko]

Troubling times at your local scumbag property developer indeed. I know this is a double-edged sword as it'll just mean the "Big 5" have even more power as all the smaller players go bust. And there will be job losses for harmless trades etc.

But, all that aside.... nobody likes a braggart and most pwoperty developer types are brash, untalented, obnoxious flash gits

Here's a thread to track their demise.

The future of new Nottinghamshire housing estate after developer Sherwood Oak Homes collapsed

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/future-new-nottinghamshire-housing-estate-8826341

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by spunko

[UmBongo]

The local authority could move in, complete and buy all the houses and rent them out to people on the waiting list.  

Mohammad and his extended family will be allocated the bigger detached ones.

[spunko]

4 hours ago, UmBongo said:

The local authority could move in, complete and buy all the houses and rent them out to people on the waiting list.  

Mohammad and his extended family will be allocated the bigger detached ones.

I think/hope the 'councils going bust' trend has come just at the right time, to avert this kind of thing. Even public sector sorts can see the purse strings are being tightened. I really hope so anyway.

[BWW]

Anyone have an idea of what the time lag is before this will cause good local builders to be grateful for work and price accordingly.

Specific example .. n london loft conversion at 2019 prices, say 40-50k ish rather than 2022 120-150k and we'll fuck you around foreva because we're booked up for 2 yrs.

[spunko]

38 minutes ago, BWW said:

Anyone have an idea of what the time lag is before this will cause good local builders to be grateful for work and price accordingly.

Specific example .. n london loft conversion at 2019 prices, say 40-50k ish rather than 2022 120-150k and we'll fuck you around foreva because we're booked up for 2 yrs.

I dont know, I asked this question on here and a few people said that a recession will cause trades to leave the industry altogether so prices won't drop much as demand will outstrip supply even more.

[spygirl]

Teynially more of propertee pyramid fuckwit ....

But worth putting in here.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/rich-house-poor-house-millionaire-29006211

https://www.stegreen.co.uk/

Theres a free book available ...

THE UK’S LEADING PROPERTY COACH AND MENTOR

Apparently ...

Gemma 'Ena' Sharples here - 

https://www.facebook.com/p/Gemma-Sharples-100063831390498/

Gemma Sharples

eoStpdonrst61mmg8bh85630a0e4heir3u301ltelfg p17331cg50f1Sgaa  · 

 

The last 3 days I have spent with my amazing entrepreneurs teaching M&A creative strategies and how to negotiate the best business buy outs and the importance of protecting your business with the fundamentals of numbers and cashflow. It’s crazy what some of my mentees are doing structuring deals with confidence.

Got to say many heads were blown and they left with a clear direction in progressing with their deals and businesses until our next meet where I know they will come back with fantastic results.

“You don’t know what you don’t know!”

If you develop and increase your knowledge every aspect of your life will improve.

 

[spygirl]

Its like they are trying to do idiot Wall street MnAs using people theyve met in Spoons.

I wish they was a neasy to take a leveraged postions agianst these fuckwits.

There isnt.

Usual Endole lnks - 

https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/people/19222393-miss-gemma-louise-sharples

https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/people/19222394-mr-steven-john-green

 

 

 

[One percent]

9 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Teynially more of propertee pyramid fuckwit ....

But worth putting in here.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/rich-house-poor-house-millionaire-29006211

https://www.stegreen.co.uk/

Theres a free book available ...

THE UK’S LEADING PROPERTY COACH AND MENTOR

Apparently ...

Gemma 'Ena' Sharples here - 

https://www.facebook.com/p/Gemma-Sharples-100063831390498/

Gemma Sharples

eoStpdonrst61mmg8bh85630a0e4heir3u301ltelfg p17331cg50f1Sgaa  · 

 

The last 3 days I have spent with my amazing entrepreneurs teaching M&A creative strategies and how to negotiate the best business buy outs and the importance of protecting your business with the fundamentals of numbers and cashflow. It’s crazy what some of my mentees are doing structuring deals with confidence.

Got to say many heads were blown and they left with a clear direction in progressing with their deals and businesses until our next meet where I know they will come back with fantastic results.

“You don’t know what you don’t know!”

If you develop and increase your knowledge every aspect of your life will improve.

 

Redcar scratters.  

[spunko]

Posted about this in another thread but adding it here for posterity... Inland Homes.

Could be posted under the Council Debt Madness thread equally.

Quote

The future of Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole Council’s (BCP) housing scheme has been left uncertain following its developer, in which the authority invested £15m, going into administration.

In 2021, BCP acquired the Carter’s Quay site in Poole, with the aim of transforming the site into 161 new homes and ancillary ground floor residential amenity and commercial space.

The authority appointed Inland Homes to be the developer of the housing scheme and gave the company a total of £15.2m over the course of the relationship. This was made up of the authority committing £8.3m to Inland Homes as a deposit and advance payment for the work, with £6.9m given for construction costs.

However, on 27 September, Inland Homes announced that it had begun the process of appointing administrators due to it forecasting losses of approximately £91m for the financial year.

https://www.room151.co.uk/151-news/future-of-bcps-housing-scheme-in-doubt-as-developer-goes-into-administration/

Edited October 19, 2023 by spunko

[Bobthebuilder]

On 16/10/2023 at 10:31, BWW said:

Specific example .. n london loft conversion at 2019 prices, say 40-50k ish

You are not going to get a loft conversion done at that price anymore. VAT, taxes, materials+ increased cost, much like the price of food in the supermarket, inflation at source.

A mate of mine is doing a loft now for £150K.

[Frank Hovis]

Bellway cutting delivery by a third and staff by 5% / 150.

 

Bellway to cut volume by a third

By Joey Gardiner17 October 2023

Housebuilder says it expects to build just 7,500 homes this year and has cut 5% of staff

Housebuilder Bellway has said it is expecting to cut build volume by a third and see a near halving of profit in its current financial year, given weak demand for new homes prompted by high interest rates.

The listed builder, reporting results for the full year to July, said it expected completions to drop to around 7,500 in the current year, from 10,945 in the year just gone, and for its profit margin to drop by at least six percentage points.

 

https://www.housingtoday.co.uk/news/bellway-to-cut-volume-by-a-third/5125804.article

 

[BWW]

1 hour ago, Bobthebuilder said:

You are not going to get a loft conversion done at that price anymore. VAT, taxes, materials+ increased cost, much like the price of food in the supermarket, inflation at source.

A mate of mine is doing a loft now for £150K.

rpi is 40% since 2019 compounded so 50  becomes 70. the other 80 is supply and demand. and availability of funds probably borrowed in many cases. 

question is will demand ever drop to where supply will do it for 70.

[Bobthebuilder]

10 minutes ago, BWW said:

rpi is 40% since 2019 compounded so 50  becomes 70. the other 80 is supply and demand. and availability of funds probably borrowed in many cases. 

question is will demand ever drop to where supply will do it for 70.

I wouldn't use RPI as an accurate model for increase prices in materials and trade rates.

I see pretty average kitchen quotes coming in at £30K.

Bear in mind that I am talking about top spec work here, the dogs nads, that would befit a million pound house in Hackney.

[BWW]

3 hours ago, Bobthebuilder said:

I wouldn't use RPI as an accurate model for increase prices in materials and trade rates.

I see pretty average kitchen quotes coming in at £30K.

Bear in mind that I am talking about top spec work here, the dogs nads, that would befit a million pound house in Hackney.

AIUI materials went up due to shortages post covid and will come down to have similar increase to rpi if raw costs reduce.

some materials include a significant part labour in their production cost which judging by comments on salaries here have not yet increased by rpi .

of course maybe everything will stay really high but not increase more until rpi or wage inflation catches up. Same as house prices not everything moves at same speed but eventually market forces rule on everything.

i suspect many " dogs.nads builders" making "unicorn quality" stuff usually for deluded bints who think its adding value will have aquired so much dosh from the prices they've been able to charge they will stop working rather than reduce price because they can.

not a sort of quality i was thinking of anyway.

for me quality in a loft conversion would be structural timber and steel overspecd by 20%+, poured tar and not felt on the flat roof, 50mm drains not 40 or even 30, etc etc. Material cost for that sort of thing is not the cause of the extra prices now.

anyway the loft conversion would be for current house and a second choice. if i got one of the nice houses in dalston or more achievable other side of victiria park in bow, it already has twice the space i need (wanted because im trying to achieve some distance from neighbours and can mostly only be done with a big house).

[Bobthebuilder]

10 minutes ago, BWW said:

i suspect many " dogs.nads builders" making "unicorn quality" stuff usually for deluded bints who think its adding value will have aquired so much dosh from the prices they've been able to charge they will stop working rather than reduce price because they can.

Agree with much of your post, but the bit i have quoted is very wrong.

I have been involved with around 100 refurb properties in Hackney, Islington, Bow and others for 25 years, still work there now. The difference in quality work is immense, there is a saying in the trade, out of 100 people who say they can do a trade, only 5 can do it properly, you know that when taking on new tradesmen as a site manager , etc.

When I was fitting top end kitchens I had around £40K of tools and a £45K van, you did not hire me for cheap.

I personally know most of the best builders in your area, pm me if you want any contacts. Actually, no forget that, you would not want to pay their rates for the unicorn quality work.

 

[Bus Stop Boxer]

5 hours ago, Bobthebuilder said:

I wouldn't use RPI as an accurate model for increase prices in materials and trade rates.

I see pretty average kitchen quotes coming in at £30K.

Bear in mind that I am talking about top spec work here, the dogs nads, that would befit a million pound house in Hackney.

Some fella i asked to quote, wanted £855 for 2 days work to lay some slabs. Doing it myself with orginal/scavenged bricks and a nice yellow mortar.

Not a big space 3mtr x 3mtr approx and he was a fucking unit. 2 days work.

Too much Mr Haystacks sir. It will not be me paying for your 3 roasted chickens per day.

[Bus Stop Boxer]

1 hour ago, Bobthebuilder said:

Agree with much of your post, but the bit i have quoted is very wrong.

I have been involved with around 100 refurb properties in Hackney, Islington, Bow and others for 25 years, still work there now. The difference in quality work is immense, there is a saying in the trade, out of 100 people who say they can do a trade, only 5 can do it properly, you know that when taking on new tradesmen as a site manager , etc.

When I was fitting top end kitchens I had around £40K of tools and a £45K van, you did not hire me for cheap.

I personally know most of the best builders in your area, pm me if you want any contacts. Actually, no forget that, you would not want to pay their rates for the unicorn quality work.

 

I did flats and houses up in London and then sold to rent at completely the wrong time, and i have formed a very clear opinion that trades in London shit all over trades in the shires. ie Dorset.

Its probably the PANADEMIC thats driven the money out of town and they are all making out like bandits.

Partys over soon dudes.

[One percent]

4 minutes ago, Bus Stop Boxer said:

I did flats and houses up in London and then sold to rent at completely the wrong time, and i have formed a very clear opinion that trades in London shit all over trades in the shires. ie Dorset.

Its probably the PANADEMIC thats driven the money out of town and they are all making out like bandits.

Partys over soon dudes.

London trades have far superior skills to the bodgeit and creepaway lot up here.  Mind, I’ve now got a sound plumber, electrician and joiner. There is a hell of a lot of crap out there.  

[leonardratso]

1 hour ago, One percent said:

London trades have far superior skills to the bodgeit and creepaway lot up here.  Mind, I’ve now got a sound plumber, electrician and joiner. There is a hell of a lot of crap out there.  

porn film fodder.

pizza delivery guy next.

Edited October 19, 2023 by leonardratso

[BWW]

4 hours ago, Bobthebuilder said:

Agree with much of your post, but the bit i have quoted is very wrong.

I have been involved with around 100 refurb properties in Hackney, Islington, Bow and others for 25 years, still work there now. The difference in quality work is immense, there is a saying in the trade, out of 100 people who say they can do a trade, only 5 can do it properly, you know that when taking on new tradesmen as a site manager , etc.

When I was fitting top end kitchens I had around £40K of tools and a £45K van, you did not hire me for cheap.

I personally know most of the best builders in your area, pm me if you want any contacts. Actually, no forget that, you would not want to pay their rates for the unicorn quality work.

 

yeah i know the sort.

trouble is i dont want what they are offering and they dont want to do what i want because they know what they are offering is 'the best'.

not about cost.

so we're probably both better off without each other.

id rather just buy another house with more distance to neighbours anyway and then i wont "need" a loft conversion. the word need is a bit dubious anyway.

[BWW]

3 hours ago, Bus Stop Boxer said:

Some fella i asked to quote, wanted £855 for 2 days work to lay some slabs. Doing it myself with orginal/scavenged bricks and a nice yellow mortar.

Not a big space 3mtr x 3mtr approx and he was a fucking unit. 2 days work.

Too much Mr Haystacks sir. It will not be me paying for your 3 roasted chickens per day.

i supervised a young lad to do very similar last year .. no mortar. before i had my hernia op so no way i was doing anything heavy.

he made an excellent job of it, took a day.

also cost me half the day teaching and supervising but i'm sure the next one he would just do without me. a year later, its still perfect.

[spunko]

If you live in the shires it's better to do your own DIY as much as possible imo. YouTube helps with a lot of the basics and even some of the more advanced stuff. 

I know a few trades who I've had recommended to me and they're all starting to struggle for work from what I hear. I'd love to employ them but the prices they quote often aren't worth it when you can DIY. Depends what kind of person you are, I like to do things properly and not bodge. 

Wouldn't ever get in someone I've not used orbeen recommended, too many cowboys.

[Ash4781b]

39 minutes ago, spunko said:

If you live in the shires it's better to do your own DIY as much as possible imo. YouTube helps with a lot of the basics and even some of the more advanced stuff. 

I know a few trades who I've had recommended to me and they're all starting to struggle for work from what I hear. I'd love to employ them but the prices they quote often aren't worth it when you can DIY. Depends what kind of person you are, I like to do things properly and not bodge. 

Wouldn't ever get in someone I've not used orbeen recommended, too many cowboys.

Colleague told me we’re quoted £260 a day for a painter decorator. They had to supply materials. I don’t know whether that’s a fair price. Edit I t sounds expensive but everyone got to earn a living.    
 

When I try to get quotes they either no show or don’t return calls. Guess they want the big jobs

Edited October 21, 2023 by Ash4781b

[spunko]

30 minutes ago, Ash4781b said:

Colleague told me we’re quoted £260 a day for a painter decorator. They had to supply materials. I don’t know whether that’s a fair price. Edit I t sounds expensive but everyone got to earn a living.    
 

When I try to get quotes they either no show or don’t return calls. Guess they want the big jobs

I would say that's at the higher end,  for the SE but don't know about London. Did you ask for cash price?  I reckon they price like that so that they can do 200 a day in cash.

Tin of 5L paint is now about 60 quid average so not surprised they don't provide materials tbh. 

[crashmonitor]

On 19/10/2023 at 14:18, BWW said:

rpi is 40% since 2019 compounded so 50  becomes 70. the other 80 is supply and demand. and availability of funds probably borrowed in many cases. 

question is will demand ever drop to where supply will do it for 70.

Margins on newbuilds at the Peak of the housing bubble in August 22 were about 20%. That 20% will be completely eroded by the Summer 24...CPI will be up about 11 or 12% over the two years, and inventory values down by about 10% over the two years. In other words beyond the middle of 24 the maths for profiting from building houses won't work. The Construction Industry will fall into a deep recession.

Edited October 21, 2023 by crashmonitor