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How does Buy to Let END!


What happens when generation rent retire with tiny pensions and massive rent bills!  

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Wheeler
14 minutes ago, Talking Monkey said:

Waiting to inherit could be a long time, a lot of these guys could be into their late 40s if not their 50s before they see an inheritance

How do these 30 year olds with a lack of a future get through each day,

And some will find that their parents were talked into equity release and there is little to inherit.

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I have zero sympathy. BTL has been people who don't work exploiting people who do. I hope they all find themselves skint and unemployable.

Late partner's landlord claimed the deposit to replace all the cheap carpets as they had marked where the furniture had been. I got him to put the reason in writing. When she moved out we took th

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spygirl
1 hour ago, Talking Monkey said:

Any idea when it will end the IO lending, bloody good thing in my opinion

Guessing a lot of the people who have these will struggle to remortgage

Resi io dead now. At least mass lending.

Gone back to being rare expensive product.

Io btl banned too. S24 makes high leveraged a brutal cash sink now. Any leveraged btler with more than 1 btl will be selling.

Resi io is being ended by 55+ with 50% equity moved to a RIO loan - if their pension can take strain.

All other resi IO will be selling it as cost of loan will rise.

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spygirl
1 hour ago, UnconventionalWisdom said:

I haven't heard a politician state how they will solve the housing crisis. Just ban IO BTL and mention this fucker. State that he was loaned more than 10 times what he could have as a resi mortgage and bang, you have at least done something to help. 

This could be their plan... Student living for life 😡

10x??

This dick - and dickier banks - has loaned about 100x his fucking income.

55. Earns 35k. Will have disposable income of 5k. Hes took on 2.5m of debt, arbing QE zirp rates and slightly higher rents.

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stokiescum
4 hours ago, JoeDavola said:

I haven't read all the responses but is the answer not simply lots of old people living in HMO's, using their pensions to pay for the rent on a single room?

Very true and you see them every time you log on Pof trying to improve there status in life the clue is livening with house mates and these are not automatically old people I’ve not looked at that demograph I look between the ages of 35-54 and there are hundeds

2 hours ago, spygirl 🏆 said:

10x??

This dick - and dickier banks - has loaned about 100x his fucking income.

55. Earns 35k. Will have disposable income of 5k. Hes took on 2.5m of debt, arbing QE zirp rates and slightly higher rents.

Because he thinks he is worth it

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Talking Monkey
4 hours ago, spygirl 🏆 said:

10x??

This dick - and dickier banks - has loaned about 100x his fucking income.

55. Earns 35k. Will have disposable income of 5k. Hes took on 2.5m of debt, arbing QE zirp rates and slightly higher rents.

All these leveraged fuckers should eventually go to the wall with IO going

Its those that have portfolios of paid off houses, how are these parasitic fuckers disgorged of the multiple properties they hoard. It really is immoral the hoarding of property

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spygirl
3 minutes ago, Talking Monkey said:

All these leveraged fuckers should eventually go to the wall with IO going

Its those that have portfolios of paid off houses, how are these parasitic fuckers disgorged of the multiple properties they hoard. It really is immoral the hoarding of property

S24 gets them before not being able to remortgage.

Lets look at the bloke in the previous link.

100k rental income.

88k interest payment.

50k of that rent is off to hmrc, leaving him 50k to find from his spare cash.

Again, hes an idiot ffs. But what in fuck sake were banks thinking in lending money that the ll could not cover from hus own income?

Banks have fuck all kniwledge of rentals. Tgey never used to lend money to them. Their risk model does not exist.

6 minutes ago, Talking Monkey said:

All these leveraged fuckers should eventually go to the wall with IO going

Its those that have portfolios of paid off houses, how are these parasitic fuckers disgorged of the multiple properties they hoard. It really is immoral the hoarding of property

Id doubt msny have paid off mortgages.

Pretty much all io btlers were withdrawing equity to put in another rental etc etc.

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UmBongo
On 25/03/2019 at 00:30, macca said:

When they retire with tiny pensions and can no longer afford to pay their MASSIVE rent, never mind their food, gas, electric, water, council tax! 

The landlord will have had their houses paid for, but through the labour of their tenant..

Who pays/or doesn’t pay for the tenant to live thrive and survive? 

What if they need a nursing home? How do we fund that? They don’t have a house to sell?

I would imagine the luckier ones will end up living in council/Housing Association properties with cheaper rents. Sheltered housing will still be there in 30/40 years time (for those in need anyway). These homes can't be sold under RTB.

Unless the rules change in the next generation or two, should Gen Rent require a care home or nursing home then the state will have to pick up the tab if they have no assets.

For those that will still be private landlords then of course it's less certain. Maybe many gen renters will find their 'ideal house' to rent...that they would buy if they could afford to do so. If they rent the house long term say 20 years, treat it like their own, maintain it well and there's a good landlord/tenant relationship then I cannot imagine the rent getting whacked up steeply every 12 or 24 months. Any sane landlord who is happy with their tenant will not put the rent up in fear that the tenant will quit. So therefore over time the private rent may become more 'affordable' to the tenant.

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stokiescum
3 hours ago, Talking Monkey said:

All these leveraged fuckers should eventually go to the wall with IO going

Its those that have portfolios of paid off houses, how are these parasitic fuckers disgorged of the multiple properties they hoard. It really is immoral the hoarding of property

Labour will go after them but I’m not sure how they will go about it maybe carrot and stick ie bring daft amounts of laws in place increased tenant rights up green credentials there’s a myriad of ways landlord licenses etc etc

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12 hours ago, Talking Monkey said:

All these leveraged fuckers should eventually go to the wall with IO going

Its those that have portfolios of paid off houses, how are these parasitic fuckers disgorged of the multiple properties they hoard. It really is immoral the hoarding of property

Land Value Tax

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spygirl
10 hours ago, stokiescum said:

Labour will go after them but I’m not sure how they will go about it maybe carrot and stick ie bring daft amounts of laws in place increased tenant rights up green credentials there’s a myriad of ways landlord licenses etc etc

Again, back to my comments on the ToS about IO BTl - its very very risk and banks (mainly BSes) dont grasp the risk.

Any change to tenancy - and theres a few come in with the Cons, never Labour - means that there are issues with banks being able to take possession of a rental property.

Bans should have never got it into lending to rentals. Even more insane, its all IO. Its totally insane.

Banks will have to hold more and more capital  against rentaln mortgages. The cost of IO BTL mortgage is going to gove massively high.

In an ideal world banks needs to move all IO BTL to commercial loans amortising (repayment) over 10 years. Then youll see the LL mortgage cost more than quadruple. This is what  the banks should have been charging in the first place.

The idea that  an IO BTL attracts lower  or same charge/APR as a resi mortgage is fuckign nuts.

 

 

 

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stokiescum
21 hours ago, spygirl 🏆 said:

S24 gets them before not being able to remortgage.

Lets look at the bloke in the previous link.

100k rental income.

88k interest payment.

50k of that rent is off to hmrc, leaving him 50k to find from his spare cash.

Again, hes an idiot ffs. But what in fuck sake were banks thinking in lending money that the ll could not cover from hus own income?

Banks have fuck all kniwledge of rentals. Tgey never used to lend money to them. Their risk model does not exist.

Id doubt msny have paid off mortgages.

Pretty much all io btlers were withdrawing equity to put in another rental etc etc.

I would agree you may hate them but very few landlords have a paid for portfolio the only ones I know inherited a house and rent it out or let there kids live there cheap

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spygirl
14 minutes ago, stokiescum said:

I would agree you may hate them but very few landlords have a paid for portfolio the only ones I know inherited a house and rent it out or let there kids live there cheap

Lets take Mr Cokernay slumlord, who owns 20 IO BTL ins [Stoke| MIddlesbrough | Hull]

He leverages up, spending 20 x 50k = ~1m.

Now Slumlords first mistake is hes bought houses that noone would have bought.

Still , hes bought them so they yield him ~100/m above LHA - say 500/m x 20 = 10k/ ~120k/y

What could go wrong?

Well .. thers not a shortage of social housing in these areas, so they only people he'll get are scum, who'll wreck the place, givng slumlord very long voids and a very high maintenance bill.

That 100/m skim now turned int oa a few 100 loss. Still slumlord is in it for capital gains ...

Well, S24 fucks that over. That rental income of ~20 x LHA suddenly is vut by 50%, requiing slumlord to hand over ~40k a month in tax.

Oh fuck, I better get rid, Ill be ruined ....

However .... there are no buyers. LL needs to issue 50 x S21 notices to quit, to tenants stop paying rents instantly and dont move. slulord now needs to get a court eviction noice, with bailiffs etc etc, costing ~6k/house.

Then, when th house is finally empty, it sits there, for the money slum lord paid for it 10 years ago. Then eventually he tries selling if fr 50% of what he paid.

Slum lord ends up selling his own house to pay for his daft venture.

 

 

 

 

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spygirl

It end because Fat cunt Fergus has 1 vote and his 400 tenants have 400.

Radio saying tUKGOV looking at getting rid of S21.

This is huge.

The big scam with ARLA, when they were preparing ground or S21, was that, if it all went wrng, the bank could get at its money quickly - S21 is an 8 week eviction.

If they are scrapping S21 and putting in a long expensive legal process to review and what not then no regulated bank can have BTL on its books. Think of the removal of S21 as the tenant now having a charge on the mortgage i.e. an extra party ebtween the bank andhe mortgagee.

I keep repeating that banks had no idea ofthe risk of IO BTL and they should nto have got into it. I was very right.

Whilst the courts may allow a repo of a tenancy occupied by single adults, there is no way they will evict a family with kids.

 

 

 

IO BTL ends wit hthe LL going bust and NW abnd CovBS going bust.

 

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Green Devil
1 hour ago, spygirl 🏆 said:

It end because Fat cunt Fergus has 1 vote and his 400 tenants have 400.

Radio saying tUKGOV looking at getting rid of S21.

This is huge.

The big scam with ARLA, when they were preparing ground or S21, was that, if it all went wrng, the bank could get at its money quickly - S21 is an 8 week eviction.

If they are scrapping S21 and putting in a long expensive legal process to review and what not then no regulated bank can have BTL on its books. Think of the removal of S21 as the tenant now having a charge on the mortgage i.e. an extra party ebtween the bank andhe mortgagee.

I keep repeating that banks had no idea ofthe risk of IO BTL and they should nto have got into it. I was very right.

Whilst the courts may allow a repo of a tenancy occupied by single adults, there is no way they will evict a family with kids.

 

 

 

IO BTL ends wit hthe LL going bust and NW abnd CovBS going bust.

 

Agreed. This is big news. It effectively means BTL for cash buyers. The banks only option is to sell on at a disount to a cash buyer investor in the event of a default by LL. It will deter most BTL and level the playing field. However as with most schemes against BTL I can see it taking 10 years to implement anyway... 

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spygirl
25 minutes ago, Green Devil said:

Agreed. This is big news. It effectively means BTL for cash buyers. The banks only option is to sell on at a disount to a cash buyer investor in the event of a default by LL. It will deter most BTL and level the playing field. However as with most schemes against BTL I can see it taking 10 years to implement anyway... 

Nope.

Its been prepared and sounds like itll be in law in less than 12 months.

 

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JoeDavola
2 hours ago, spygirl 🏆 said:

Nope.

Its been prepared and sounds like itll be in law in less than 12 months.

I'd be happy to see an end to leveraged BTL but the unfortunate thing is that BTL has also done permanent damage to the areas where it's rampant - streets full of transient people, poorly maintained houses, migrants packed in at twice the density they should be.

It will be interesting to see what happens to those areas if there's a mass exodus of BTL.

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One percent
9 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

I'd be happy to see an end to leveraged BTL but the unfortunate thing is that BTL has also done permanent damage to the areas where it's rampant - streets full of transient people, poorly maintained houses, migrants packed in at twice the density they should be.

It will be interesting to see what happens to those areas if there's a mass exodus of BTL.

I’m guessing that these areas used to be student land. Now though they have built all those specialist student flats. So as you say god knows what will happen. I don’t think though that they have any plans to stop immigration 

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gibbon
2 minutes ago, One percent said:

I’m guessing that these areas used to be student land. Now though they have built all those specialist student flats. So as you say god knows what will happen. I don’t think though that they have any plans to stop immigration 

While I could never vote for them I almost want Labour to win the next GE after the Tory's brexit betrayal, just to see all the BTL scumlords, lettings agents and second home owners get destroyed. I won't shed a tear for them when they're all wiped out with no discernible skills or work ethic and so forced to suck sailors cocks down on the docks for a packet of old holborn. 

Sadly as you mention there's no plans to stop immigration and Chairman Corbyn is on record saying he wants unlimited immigration, so fuck knows what would happen to these areas.

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spygirl
57 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

I'd be happy to see an end to leveraged BTL but the unfortunate thing is that BTL has also done permanent damage to the areas where it's rampant - streets full of transient people, poorly maintained houses, migrants packed in at twice the density they should be.

It will be interesting to see what happens to those areas if there's a mass exodus of BTL.

Temporary damage.

Easy fixed with the withdrawl of lending.

This change is huge - effectively it makes BTL loans a no go for any bank.

 

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JoeDavola
17 minutes ago, spygirl 🏆 said:

Temporary damage.

Easy fixed with the withdrawl of lending.

This change is huge - effectively it makes BTL loans a no go for any bank.

Excellent. So this basically means it's gonna be difficult for an individual to get credit to buy more than one house i.e. the one they live in?

In a sane world I should be a cash buyer, so maybe we'll see a bunch of BTL's being dumped on the market in the next couple of years and one might take my fancy.

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spygirl
3 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Excellent. So this basically means it's gonna be difficult for an individual to get credit to buy more than one house i.e. the one they live in?

In a sane world I should be a cash buyer, so maybe we'll see a bunch of BTL's being dumped on the market in the next couple of years and one might take my fancy.

Basically, yes.

IO BTL lendign pretty much stopped 12 mnths ago.

This change means that banks cannot - and I stress cannot - have BTL loan on their books.

S21 allowed the bank to get back its money within 8 weeks, repo and all that pending.

There is now the legal system - of indeterminate, unknown time and cost between the bank and its secured asset.

This is a major No No - try getting a second charge on your mortgage from a bank. Theyll tell you to fuck off.

The entire stock of BTL loans will move to 'specialist finance companies'

These will be very very expensive. And the BTL LL has nowhere else to go, so they'll gouge them.

APR n a  BTL loan will head rapidly towards 7%+

 

 

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spygirl
1 minute ago, Option5 said:

I forsee a huge increase in the number of S21s during the next year as landlords try to sell their properties.

I forsee UKGOV have already banned S21.

This was all lined up to be published and implemented today.

To quote bland undersight from Tos, in 2015 - See now, sell everything!!!

 

 

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JoeDavola
20 minutes ago, spygirl 🏆 said:

Basically, yes.

IO BTL lendign pretty much stopped 12 mnths ago.

This change means that banks cannot - and I stress cannot - have BTL loan on their books.

S21 allowed the bank to get back its money within 8 weeks, repo and all that pending.

There is now the legal system - of indeterminate, unknown time and cost between the bank and its secured asset.

This is a major No No - try getting a second charge on your mortgage from a bank. Theyll tell you to fuck off.

The entire stock of BTL loans will move to 'specialist finance companies'

These will be very very expensive. And the BTL LL has nowhere else to go, so they'll gouge them.

APR n a  BTL loan will head rapidly towards 7%+

So basically every IO BTL loan, once it expires, will end up becoming very expensive indeed, basically every IO investor is fucked because the rental returns are generally so poor (here in NI anyway) that they barely pay a mortgage and maintain a property at 2% interest never mind 7%.

So over the next 3 years or so as all the BTL IO loans expire (wouldn't imagine an IO loan would fix for any longer than 3 years) you'll see pretty much every IO investor leaving the market - have I understood that right?

Edited by JoeDavola
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