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How does Buy to Let END!


What happens when generation rent retire with tiny pensions and massive rent bills!  

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I have zero sympathy. BTL has been people who don't work exploiting people who do. I hope they all find themselves skint and unemployable.

Late partner's landlord claimed the deposit to replace all the cheap carpets as they had marked where the furniture had been. I got him to put the reason in writing. When she moved out we took th

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spygirl
1 minute ago, One percent said:

Paywall. o.O

Cant find free mirror

UK capital gains tax take soars as buy-to-let landlords sell up

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One percent
Just now, spygirl said:

Cant find free mirror

UK capital gains tax take soars as buy-to-let landlords sell up

See my post upthread about a scabby landlord. They are just waking up to the financial pressures. 

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spygirl
5 minutes ago, One percent said:

See my post upthread about a scabby landlord. They are just waking up to the financial pressures. 

Hadnt seen that. Oh dear. 550 please slumlord.

They put a hmo scheme in place 2-3 years ago. About time. North marine rd is as scummy as hell.

Ive been saying they need to structly regulate i.e get rid of the dossy flophouses within 1m of the sea side.

The walk from town is fucking disgraceful - bottom of eastborough is a shithole.

We will also apply a finders fee in cases where a landlord has not applied to licence their property and have to be found by the Council.

Hahahsha

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One percent
3 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Hadnt seen that. Oh dear. 550 please slumlord.

They put a hmo scheme in place 2-3 years ago. About time. North marine rd is as scummy as hell.

Ive been saying they need to structly regulate i.e get rid of the dossy flophouses within 1m of the sea side.

The walk from town is fucking disgraceful - bottom of eastborough is a shithole.

We will also apply a finders fee in cases where a landlord has not applied to licence their property and have to be found by the Council.

Hahahsha

I can’t work out whether it’s a one off payment or annual. 

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spygirl
1 minute ago, One percent said:

I can’t work out whether it’s a one off payment or annual. 

I think its for 5 years.

Less a revenue raising effort, more a getting a list of all private rentals and checking out the lls.

S24, s21 now this. Good.

Imagune being one of the large LLs, and theres several in scabby who have 20+ properties, all io. Then sbc refusing you a license...

 

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One percent
Just now, spygirl said:

I think its for 5 years.

Less a revenue raising effort, more a getting a list of all private rentals and checking out the lls.

S24, s21 now this. Good.

Imagune being one of the large LLs, and theres several in scabby who have 20+ properties, all io. Then sbc refusing you a license...

 

Person on farcebook was wittering on about all the other stuff that they needed to do toget the licence. Like hardwired smoke detectors. I thought that had been a requirement for ages.  

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spygirl
4 minutes ago, One percent said:

Person on farcebook was wittering on about all the other stuff that they needed to do toget the licence. Like hardwired smoke detectors. I thought that had been a requirement for ages.  

Smoke alarms piss easy.

Its the fit n proper hurdle. Any sniff of slumlord and - zap - no license.

Again, why retail banks should not have been lending to LL, never mind io mortgages.

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  • 2 weeks later...
steppensheep
On 17/04/2019 at 08:07, spygirl said:

Since 2002ish, IO BTL LL have been the major property buyers, outcompeting FTBS a they had access to more leverage and a hole i nthe tax regime.

The people LL will sell to will, in the main, be FTB. Or at least cash buyer or people with a repayment mortgage...

...

There will be ~20 years of IO BTL purhcases hittign the market. I already see it now.

 

I've just realised this is going to screw up the housing market for a generation. New FTBers will be buying chain free as the BTLers exit. There wont be anyone (or a very reduced number) able to buy a next tier up property, so all the chains above starter properties will be stalled, with prices gradually falling over the years until the buyers and sellers come back into balance.

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spygirl
Just now, steppensheep said:

I've just realised this is going to screw up the housing market for a generation. New FTBers will be buying chain free as the BTLers exit. There wont be anyone (or a very reduced number) able to buy a next tier up property, so all the chains above starter properties will be stalled, with prices gradually falling over the years until the buyers and sellers come back into balance.

Not only that.?..

A lot of places dont have the mid owners between over 65 and ftbs.

Look for places where the probates exceed the the ftbs.

Scabbys one place.

There are a lot of places in the South where the loss of finsec jobs means the over 60s only have a tiny number of people to sell to.

Shooting fish in the barrel.

I dont think many people have grasped how much IO mortgafes n io btl distorted the market. EAs are getting it, rightly, now with v low transactions.

 

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JoeDavola
22 hours ago, steppensheep said:

I've just realised this is going to screw up the housing market for a generation. New FTBers will be buying chain free as the BTLers exit. There wont be anyone (or a very reduced number) able to buy a next tier up property, so all the chains above starter properties will be stalled, with prices gradually falling over the years until the buyers and sellers come back into balance.

Given that houses are so expensive nowadays there isn't really a 'housing ladder' as such. If you're a 30-something who can just about afford your first house with a 30/35 year mortgage, then....that's probably your last house too.

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JoeDavola
22 hours ago, spygirl said:

Not only that.?..

A lot of places dont have the mid owners between over 65 and ftbs.

Look for places where the probates exceed the the ftbs.

Scabbys one place.

There are a lot of places in the South where the loss of finsec jobs means the over 60s only have a tiny number of people to sell to.

Shooting fish in the barrel.

I dont think many people have grasped how much IO mortgafes n io btl distorted the market. EAs are getting it, rightly, now with v low transactions.

I'd assume BTL has mainly been certain types of property however, mainly 2 and 3 bed apartments (cram a 'young professional' into each room) and 4+ bed terrace HMO slums.

BTL never really made sense on detached or even really semi-detached family houses, as the rent never really covered the mortgage/upkeep costs of such a property, so I'd assume few would be so monumentally thick as to try that?

Surely the BTL purge will be slums in slum areas that no fucker wants to be an owner/occupier?

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spygirl

Forgotten how good Freetrader and his account digging is. From 2015.

https://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/205861-buy-to-let-finance-watch/

 

Today:

Metro Bank explores sale of a chunk of loans hit by accounting error

https://www.ft.com/content/0cf6b3a0-7255-11e9-bf5c-6eeb837566c5



The accounting error involved large numbers of commercial property and professional buy-to-let loans. Because of the mistake, Metro found it did not have as much capital against them as it should have done.

 

Metro Bank says cash injection talks 'advanced'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48243155

From whom? And at what price???

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JoeDavola

My landlord is putting my rent up, by 25 quid a month; that's an extra 300 a year I'll be throwing their way.

First time I've had a rent increase in years.

Not thrilled to be paying more in rent, but it's still 100 quid a month cheaper to anything comparable I can see. I should really buy somewhere as the increase in prices year on year means I'll be a renter for life if I don't buy something, but the quality of housing available in general is pretty poor.

 

Edited by JoeDavola
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Noallegiance
54 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

My landlord is putting my rent up, by 25 quid a month; that's an extra 300 a year I'll be throwing their way.

First time I've had a rent increase in years.

Not thrilled to be paying more in rent, but it's still 100 quid a month cheaper to anything comparable I can see. I should really buy somewhere as the increase in prices year on year means I'll be a renter for life if I don't buy something, but the quality of housing available in general is pretty poor.

 

Feel for you and everyone else in the same kind of situation.

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  • 3 weeks later...
JoeDavola

Funny how BTL works out (or doesn't) when you actually crunch the numbers...

....thought I saw something that was a particularly good BTL opportunity...but then you take rates (our version of council tax that the ll has to pay), letting agent fees, insurance, and income tax from the letting income and you end up at 4% yield and that's assuming no voids and not even taking any repair costs into the equation...

Edited by JoeDavola
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spygirl
1 hour ago, JoeDavola said:

Funny how BTL works out (or doesn't) when you actually crunch the numbers...

....thought I saw something that was a particularly good BTL opportunity...but then you take rates (our version of council tax that the ll has to pay), letting agent fees, insurance, and income tax from the letting income and you end up at 4% yield and that's assuming no voids and not even taking any repair costs into the equation...

You need to put that 4% into perspective.

4% of 52 weeks = ~3 weeks. That is 3 weeks out of 52 give you your 'profit'.

1 month void?  Thats 2 years 'profit' gone.

Im regularly seeing rentals with 3 months voids, followed by a sub-6 month tenancy, followed by 2-3 months more voids.

My 10+ year rant on ToS can be summarised as:

- IO BTL is insane; banks should not be lending IO BTL loans, or any IO loans. Ever.

- 90% of rents are set by the LHA.

- The leverage involved is insane.

- Neither LL or the idot banks understood the risk with IO BTL.

 

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JoeDavola
1 hour ago, spygirl said:

You need to put that 4% into perspective.

4% of 52 weeks = ~3 weeks. That is 3 weeks out of 52 give you your 'profit'.

1 month void?  Thats 2 years 'profit' gone.

Im regularly seeing rentals with 3 months voids, followed by a sub-6 month tenancy, followed by 2-3 months more voids.

My 10+ year rant on ToS can be summarised as:

- IO BTL is insane; banks should not be lending IO BTL loans, or any IO loans. Ever.

- 90% of rents are set by the LHA.

- The leverage involved is insane.

- Neither LL or the idot banks understood the risk with IO BTL.

Agree 100% - I was referring to a house that I could buy with cash outright, and even then it didn't seem worth it to have to deal with house maintenance, an estate agents, and potentially dodgy tennants, all for less than 4% return.

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BurntBread
3 hours ago, spygirl said:

You need to put that 4% into perspective.

4% of 52 weeks = ~3 weeks. That is 3 weeks out of 52 give you your 'profit'.

1 month void?  Thats 2 years 'profit' gone.

I'm probably being a bit dense here, but I have no idea what this means.

Surely 4% yield just means that the landlord receives 4% of the asset's value from the tenant, per year, before tax. What "profit" means isn't at all clear in this case, and calculating 4% of the yearly rent doesn't seem to be relevant to anything.

It's normally the case that Spy talks sense in an understandable way, so I'm starting to get a bit worried...

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spygirl
31 minutes ago, BurntBread said:

I'm probably being a bit dense here, but I have no idea what this means.

Surely 4% yield just means that the landlord receives 4% of the asset's value from the tenant, per year, before tax. What "profit" means isn't at all clear in this case, and calculating 4% of the yearly rent doesn't seem to be relevant to anything.

It's normally the case that Spy talks sense in an understandable way, so I'm starting to get a bit worried...

Trying to understand what a LL means by yield is a way to madness.

Ive had various explanations, most of which have no mathematical basis.

Normaly, LL ignore nay money they ut in - normally as theyve put in fuck all, and just say yield in terms of hte interest they pay.

So, if they borrowed 100k, @ 4% (4k/y), then get lent the place out for 500/m, rent (6k.y) they say they get a 6% yield.

Its not really a yield though, more a margin/cash flow. Theyll claim their margin is 2k/y, about 150/m.

However ...

tax changes, means they take a hit of 30% of that rent income, so that 6k recues  to 4k, so theres no margin.

Chuck in void, maintenance, and they'll go bust - most BTL of 2005 are going to end up bust.

 

 

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Green Devil

4% yield, say on 100k is 4k per annum in rent. If you put it in a high yield building soc account paying a whopping 0.75% you get 750pa. So that's a difference if 3,250 for running a BTL. It's probably worth it if the 100k you invest is growing 10% pa with accelerating House prices but certainly not if the market is stagnant or dropping. Pays your money takes your choice! 

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