How does Buy to Let END!

[macca]

spokesman for shelter on the radio asking the government to pay peoples rent who cant afford it..

Is a Landlord bailout coming?

Is buy to leech the business that will never be allowed to fail?

How do we house tenants when Tories banned councils building affordable housing? There is'nt any

Even hotels are full of asylum seekers..

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/eviction-ban-chaos-set-continue

Edited August 24, 2020 by macca

[eek]

11 hours ago, macca said:

spokesman for shelter on the radio asking the government to pay peoples rent who cant afford it..

Is a Landlord bailout coming?

Is buy to leech the business that will never be allowed to fail?

How do we house tenants when Tories banned councils building affordable housing? There is'nt any

Even hotels are full of asylum seekers..

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/eviction-ban-chaos-set-continue

Better f***ing well not be. Housing benefit is there to cover payments for those who cannot afford it.

[spygirl]

12 hours ago, macca said:

spokesman for shelter on the radio asking the government to pay peoples rent who cant afford it..

Is a Landlord bailout coming?

Is buy to leech the business that will never be allowed to fail?

How do we house tenants when Tories banned councils building affordable housing? There is'nt any

Even hotels are full of asylum seekers..

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/eviction-ban-chaos-set-continue

I remember ine of the shelter wimmin - and they are all wimmin - bring a io btl ll.

Dont pay rent. Business risk, force leveraged idiots  LL out.

[Andersen]

On 24/08/2020 at 21:40, macca said:

spokesman for shelter on the radio asking the government to pay peoples rent who cant afford it..

More from the money tree - pay housing benefit to workshy scroungers who know they can splurge it rather than pay rent. Write it off then pay (ie sap taxpayer pays) the same again direct to the landlord to stop eviction.
The whole system needs tearing up and start again.

[Andersen]

See link title https://www.nrla.org.uk/news/landlords-face-two-years-without-rent Feedback is govt/courts will not consider eviction a priority until 12 months in arrears. Then add 6 months to process through the courts. Already 6+ months so far.

Personally, if I hired my car out to a stranger and they stopped paying hire I'd consider them a crook. Odd some folk are encouraging tennants to stop paying rent. Guess a lot of folk have a different view of right & wrong to me.

[gibbon]

19 hours ago, Andersen said:

See link title https://www.nrla.org.uk/news/landlords-face-two-years-without-rent Feedback is govt/courts will not consider eviction a priority until 12 months in arrears. Then add 6 months to process through the courts. Already 6+ months so far.

Personally, if I hired my car out to a stranger and they stopped paying hire I'd consider them a crook. Odd some folk are encouraging tennants to stop paying rent. Guess a lot of folk have a different view of right & wrong to me.

Scumlords can go fuck themselves. Rentier scum are the real thieves. 

[spygirl]

19 hours ago, Andersen said:

See link title https://www.nrla.org.uk/news/landlords-face-two-years-without-rent Feedback is govt/courts will not consider eviction a priority until 12 months in arrears. Then add 6 months to process through the courts. Already 6+ months so far.

Personally, if I hired my car out to a stranger and they stopped paying hire I'd consider them a crook. Odd some folk are encouraging tennants to stop paying rent. Guess a lot of folk have a different view of right & wrong to me.

OK, let me provide a parallel to LLing.

Would you set up a business that borrowed money to buy Ferraris  which were rented  potless scummers?

Ferraris  are similar in price to UK housing.

 

[Andersen]

59 minutes ago, spygirl said:

OK, let me provide a parallel to LLing.

Would you set up a business that borrowed money to buy Ferraris  which were rented  potless scummers?

Scenario1 owner : I rent out my (bought and paid for with years of hard graft) personal ferrari
Scenario2 accidental : I occasionally rent out my (bought with bank loan, which I'm still paying back) ferrari
Scenario3 btl : I rent out my (bought with bank loan, which I'm still paying back) ferrari (I only bought it so I could hire it out ;))

I see the difference but not why some get vitrol others don't.
In all cases I'd expect the rental to be paid, scummers are not checking if the ferrari/property is owned outright before they decide to withhold rent. 
All are too high risk for me to be comfortable...

[Frank Hovis]

23 hours ago, Andersen said:

See link title https://www.nrla.org.uk/news/landlords-face-two-years-without-rent Feedback is govt/courts will not consider eviction a priority until 12 months in arrears. Then add 6 months to process through the courts. Already 6+ months so far.

Personally, if I hired my car out to a stranger and they stopped paying hire I'd consider them a crook. Odd some folk are encouraging tennants to stop paying rent. Guess a lot of folk have a different view of right & wrong to me.

I agree but it is a means to an end. 

BTlers buying multiple properties drove a lot of HPI so in order to unwind that HPI you want those same BTLers to sell those multiple properties so reversing HPI.

I would say that I feel sorry for the decent landlord but in my personal experience decent landlords charge under the market rate so that they can select decent tenants and therefore won't be the ones suffering from non-payment of rent. 

It will be the ones who will take anyone that signs up to their top of the market rents that will be suffering and those are the ones I would regard as non-decent.

[spygirl]

Sympathetic spin on a couple, when you read thru n put the dates, are a pair of cunts.

Family are left homeless by government’s eviction ban after their tenant stops paying rent despite still having job - and then REFUSES to move out of their home

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8676943/British-family-rented-home-work-Qatar-return-UK-Covid-eviction-ban.html

Emma and Russell Burton, both 41,  rented out their UK home to work in Qatar

They wanted to return last year due to son Thomas' rare metabolic disorder

But tenant refused to leave, and now government eviction ban has left them stuck in France with relatives

A British family with a sick child are stranded in France after the Government's ban on evictions due to coronavirus left them unable to get their home back.

Emma Burton and her family are living with her parents after the tenant renting their Merseyside home stopped paying rent and refuses to leave.

The situation for Emma and husband Russell, both 41, and their two children, Thomas and Poppy, has been made worse by the government's extension of their ban on evictions until September 20.

One, once you rent out a place it is no longer 'your home'. Its the tenant ffs. Besides, its the banks.

The family left their home in Newton-le-Willows in early 2019 for Qatar where Emma and Russell had found work. But to hang on to their home they rented it out through a letting agency.

How early? Jan, Feb June?

I assume they had found work in the UK, otherwise theyd not have the house.

Let's assume they found a job that paid more money, so dragged their young family to a ME shithole. Chasing $$$$$$$$.

However, within a few months they decided the move was not working for them and so wanted to return to their home in the UK.      

But in December 2019 they said their tenants stopped paying their £800 rent and refused to leave the house to allow them to return.

The couple claim that their tenant is still working as a car salesman, despite taking a rent holiday. 

Just a few months? One two, three??? Not fir them? Or sacked, with no protection. Youd have to be cretin to relocate yo UAE thinking you have any form if employment protection. Moving with your kids is just fucking nuts. Very stupid or very money grabbing. Or both.

Might it be connected to the kid having a rare condition that will cost them a fortune outside ov fhe UK - assuming the illness is just not some made up bullshit.

Let's assume they left in Feb, rented house out of SST tenancy. Its possible the tenant might have had to sign a longer 12+ month lease. So, allowing for 3 months, takes us to May/ Summer 2019.

Even if was a 6 month tenancy, took out in April, they could have served notice Apr + 6 = Octoberish 2019, 2 months notice = Dec.

Which appears to be the time they allege he stopped paying rent.

They seem to know a lit about tenants job, despite not knowing their own in UAE. 

They are fibbing.

[macca]

On 28/08/2020 at 15:50, Andersen said:

Personally, if I hired my car out to a stranger and they stopped paying hire I'd consider them a crook. Odd some folk are encouraging tennants to stop paying rent. Guess a lot of folk have a different view of right & wrong to me.

Using housing as a stick to beat poor people with is slavery.. 

My cousin has been in tears, she works 40 hours a week just to pay her rent and bills.. the landlord even charges her £50 a month to park on the drive of the rented apartment (coverted house, chopped up badly) 

she has no life.. no future.. and 70% of that is the fucking landlord CUNT.. 

Fuck them all to hell for what they do.. 

Living off the backs of people who work, robbing a generation of the same life chances they had.. 

You have 2 choices when you leave home..

You pay extortionate rent

Or

You live on the street

Thats not a choice.. thats a life sentence.. 

Now retirement age to be raised to 70 years old, so the renters can pay and work till they drop dead! 

Fucking cunts

 

[SNACR]

1 hour ago, macca said:

Using housing as a stick to beat poor people with is slavery.. 

My cousin has been in tears, she works 40 hours a week just to pay her rent and bills.. the landlord even charges her £50 a month to park on the drive of the rented apartment (coverted house, chopped up badly) 

she has no life.. no future.. and 70% of that is the fucking landlord CUNT.. 

Fuck them all to hell for what they do.. 

Living off the backs of people who work, robbing a generation of the same life chances they had.. 

You have 2 choices when you leave home..

You pay extortionate rent

Or

You live on the street

Thats not a choice.. thats a life sentence.. 

Now retirement age to be raised to 70 years old, so the renters can pay and work till they drop dead! 

Fucking cunts

 

Yeah, I do kind of agree. My view is you own one residential property - the one you live in. Also no second holiday homes, other than static caravan type things, to rip the heart out of communities when it’s empty 75% of the time.

If they want to go into the business of hiring property out they can open a guest house or Airbnb.

Edited August 30, 2020 by SNACR

[wherebee]

2 hours ago, macca said:

Using housing as a stick to beat poor people with is slavery.. 

My cousin has been in tears, she works 40 hours a week just to pay her rent and bills.. the landlord even charges her £50 a month to park on the drive of the rented apartment (coverted house, chopped up badly) 

she has no life.. no future.. and 70% of that is the fucking landlord CUNT.. 

Fuck them all to hell for what they do.. 

Living off the backs of people who work, robbing a generation of the same life chances they had.. 

You have 2 choices when you leave home..

You pay extortionate rent

Or

You live on the street

Thats not a choice.. thats a life sentence.. 

Now retirement age to be raised to 70 years old, so the renters can pay and work till they drop dead! 

Fucking cunts

 

I agree with this.  And I have been a landlord (during separation and divorce and overseas working).  I always charged below market rents and always fixed any items immediately.  I must have rented 15+ different places over my lifetime in the UK and elsewhere, and all 15 of them were shitty landlords who would not repair stuff, would not return deposit without a fight.  Actually, not true, one in Australia was OK in, although thinking about it when we moved in the aircon didn't work as the installers had fixed it back to front - and it took 3 weeks to fix in 40+ degrees - so, actually, he was a cunt as well.

[nickc]

14 hours ago, macca said:

Using housing as a stick to beat poor people with is slavery.. 

My cousin has been in tears, she works 40 hours a week just to pay her rent and bills.. the landlord even charges her £50 a month to park on the drive of the rented apartment (coverted house, chopped up badly) 

she has no life.. no future.. and 70% of that is the fucking landlord CUNT.. 

Fuck them all to hell for what they do.. 

Living off the backs of people who work, robbing a generation of the same life chances they had.. 

You have 2 choices when you leave home..

You pay extortionate rent

Or

You live on the street

Thats not a choice.. thats a life sentence.. 

Now retirement age to be raised to 70 years old, so the renters can pay and work till they drop dead! 

Fucking cunts

 

So what's the root cause?.....or to be accurate.....who is the cause?..... I think landlords are just an effect ?......... think property rights?

Address this fundamental and most discussion on hpc would end.?...

[Frank Hovis]

23 minutes ago, nickc said:

So what's the root cause?.....or to be accurate.....who is the cause?..... I think landlords are just an effect ?......... think property rights?

Address this fundamental and most discussion on hpc would end.?...

 

The ratio of average house prices to average wages being out of kilter as result of successive governments actively stoking the former by low interest rates, purchase incentives and big tax benefits whilst suppressing the latter by mass immigration.

This means that the average worker can no longer afford to buy a house.

 

[BurntBread]

16 minutes ago, nickc said:

So what's the root cause?.....or to be accurate.....who is the cause?..... I think landlords are just an effect ?......... think property rights?

Address this fundamental and most discussion on hpc would end.?...

I guess overall, it's wage-earners losing power relative to capital- and asset-owners.

The fall in long-term interest rates has driven a lot of that, combined with the destruction of clerical roles due to computing, the entrance of a huge labour pool in the form of China to the world market, and (locally) the import of cheap labour from Eastern Europe and South-East Asia. Some of those things feed on each other, or enable some of the others (e.g. once businesses are making lots of money they can buy political influence to encourage immigration to hold down labour costs). Some of the legacy from previous de-industrialisation in the North would have been a potential pool of voters who could be bought with benefit bribes, entrenching joblessness and draining money from the pockets of those who do work. GB took full advantage of that to create a client voter bloc.

There was a generation who had pricing power over the following generation with respect to housing: those who got their own houses cheaply, and could leverage up, or even outright buy other houses on the rise. Many of those took full advantage of the situation to eat their own offspring; others didn't. If those who did, actually understood the consequences, then they were morally weak; many, I suspect, didn't think, but just saw the immediate opportunity and piled in.

It feels like a perfect storm over the course of a generation. Some of it must start to unwind, now: de-globalisation, the re-coupling from China now we are in a new cold war, re-industrialisation, and political tensions at home as the disadvantages of immigration come to the fore*. Eventually, the bond markets will recognise the bill for welfare, and that will have to be rolled back to avoid a currency crisis. How this all pans out has been discussed in the "credit deflation" thread, but it's unlikely to be pretty.

* The argument I have used with some of my SJW friends is that immigration always does at least two things: especially high-skill immigration makes things possible which would otherwise be impossible, while all immigration drives down labour costs. Therefore a limited amount of high-skill immigration is likely to be a net positive, and there will be a point where the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. There has to be a legitimate debate about how much immigration we want, especially as the advantages and disadvantages tend to fall on different people. That's what politics is for.

[Frank Hovis]

19 minutes ago, BurntBread said:

There was a generation who had pricing power over the following generation with respect to housing: those who got their own houses cheaply, and could leverage up, or even outright buy other houses on the rise. Many of those took full advantage of the situation to eat their own offspring; others didn't. If those who did, actually understood the consequences, then they were morally weak; many, I suspect, didn't think, but just saw the immediate opportunity and piled in.

 

A friend of my brother's was and maybe still is a photographer.  This is an insecure profession so he looked to build an income and a pension, having bought his own house cheaply, by buying another in the same street.  With the rent from this he was able to buy a second and so on, ending up with half a dozen houses in the same street.

His aim was simply to provide for himself but the subsequent rampant HPI inflation and wage suppression now means that he and people similar to him have pushed a whole generation of average earners into permanent renters unable to afford to buy the house they rent.

I don't know him but AFAIK he would have been happy just to be able to supplement his own profession's erratic earnings with something more reliable.  Through fortunate circumstance, for him, he has become wealthy.

He may be arrogantly bragging down the pub about his six properties, or he may be a really nice guy who never mentions them, but this was no financial genius at work. 

He got lucky and many others got unlucky.

[spygirl]

1 hour ago, nickc said:

So what's the root cause?.....or to be accurate.....who is the cause?..... I think landlords are just an effect ?......... think property rights?

Address this fundamental and most discussion on hpc would end.?...

Do you mean LL?

Or do you mean IOBTL LLs?

Gidiot/BoE should have moved faster in 2010, shutting down IOBTL. They didnt. 

The numbers behind io btl are fucking insane. These need to be priced like commercial bridging loans, which is what they are.

If you want to buy a house to rent out, fine. However, they should be commercial mortgages, repaid over a 10-15 year period.

[BurntBread]

Anyway, I probably shouldn't be talking about "moral weakness", as I recently bought some BATS. I've never objected to anyone smoking, and I can't immediately see how my actions have made things worse in the world, but I'm 100% sure my mum would give me a hard stare if I told her.  I think I might be a bit of a closet SJW (without the part where I tell other people what to do), so I expect @spunko to be ready with the ban-hammer if I start being problematic.

I was actually wondering what financial investments I would draw the line at? In principle, I don't like the idea of profiting from other people's work (which is essentially what owning shares or earning interest above inflation is - not that the latter has been possible for the last 12 years). But, in the long run, we have to go through a cycle of life: starting off being a dependent of our parents, then working and paying into the system, then living off other people's labour in retirement. So, I think investing and getting returns (or, in my case, losses) is unavoidable, and in fact unobjectionable even to a sanctimonious wanker like me, as long as I generate wealth during my productive years.

I think I should probably do a bit more due diligence when buying miners, though: if there are otherwise equivalent companies with better safety records, they're probably worth preferring. I'm lazy, though. For some reason, I can't bring myself to buy shares in Playtech: maybe I've just seen too many people pissing away money on gambling, and not enough people dying of lung cancer.

[Democorruptcy]

On 24/08/2020 at 21:40, macca said:

spokesman for shelter on the radio asking the government to pay peoples rent who cant afford it..

Is a Landlord bailout coming?

Is buy to leech the business that will never be allowed to fail?

How do we house tenants when Tories banned councils building affordable housing? There is'nt any

Even hotels are full of asylum seekers..

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/eviction-ban-chaos-set-continue

The Welsh goverbankment are "helping" tenants. Giving money directly to landlords that tenants have to pay back over 5 years.

 

Quote

 

A new loan scheme for tenants with rent arrears due to coronavirus has been launched by the Welsh Government.

The £8m Tenant Saver Loan Scheme is for private sector tenants who are not on benefits.

It will not apply to those who were in significant rental arrears before March - when lockdown began.

Housing Minister Julie James said she hoped the scheme would "stop many thousands of people" from being evicted.

She told a news conference it was "hard to put actual numbers" on how many people may seek to benefit from the scheme.

Plaid Cymru said the initiative was "long overdue", while the Conservatives said the coronavirus pandemic had been a wake-up for the Welsh Government to end homelessness.

Once the loan is accepted, the money will be paid directly to the landlord or agent and tenants will be able to pay back the amount over five years.

The APR level (Annual Percentage Rate) of interest on the loan will be 1%, ministers said, and there will be no maximum amount but the scheme will cover rent arrears only.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-53729400

 

 

[Frank Hovis]

12 minutes ago, BurntBread said:

Anyway, I probably shouldn't be talking about "moral weakness", as I recently bought some BATS. I've never objected to anyone smoking, and I can't immediately see how my actions have made things worse in the world, but I'm 100% sure my mum would give me a hard stare if I told her.  I think I might be a bit of a closet SJW (without the part where I tell other people what to do), so I expect @spunko to be ready with the ban-hammer if I start being problematic.

I doubt whether Huntingdon Life Sciences is listed these days but that is my only absolute no go: vivisection.

I absolutely despise animal cruelty.  An acquaintance, via school, of a friend used to work at similar in his college holidays.  He seemed to enjoy it.  The guy was so creepy I assume he has since gone on to murder.

I struggle to think of anything else in which I wouldn't invest if it gave a decent return.  I have no problem with arms dealing, tobacco, even recreational drugs if they became legal.

[goldbug9999]

15 hours ago, SNACR said:

Yeah, I do kind of agree. My view is you own one residential property - the one you live in. Also no second holiday homes, other than static caravan type things, to rip the heart out of communities when it’s empty 75% of the time.

If they want to go into the business of hiring property out they can open a guest house or Airbnb.

My plan would be for the government to buy cheap land (e.g. pasture) issue blanket change-of-use planning and build social housing on a huge scale, say 2 million homes, which it then rents out at say 1/3 the take home pay of someone on minimum wage. This way you don't need any direct intervention like restrictions on owning and renting out or rent controls, you just set the market rent floor super low by flooding the market. The government gets revenue earning assets, people on low wages get a massive leg up in living standards and the economy gets  a massive boost from all the extra disposable income.

[Wight Flight]

7 hours ago, nickc said:

So what's the root cause?.....or to be accurate.....who is the cause?..... I think landlords are just an effect ?......... think property rights?

Address this fundamental and most discussion on hpc would end.?...

Banks.

If I can afford to pay £1,000 per month for my accommodation, the banks will lend me £200k to buy a house.

If, however, I pay that money to a landlord, the banks will lend him £250k to buy the same house.

30 years ago, to get a landlord mortgage you needed to prove you could service the loan from your own income, and any rental income was excluded.

We need to return to those days.

[nickc]

9 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

Banks.

If I can afford to pay £1,000 per month for my accommodation, the banks will lend me £200k to buy a house.

If, however, I pay that money to a landlord, the banks will lend him £250k to buy the same house.

30 years ago, to get a landlord mortgage you needed to prove you could service the loan from your own income, and any rental income was excluded.

We need to return to those days.

We have a winner.......almost(?)

But don't forget, banks, as injin would have pointed out, do not exist....... Bankers, who obviously do exist, along with their political friends are allowed to interfere with the honest price of money  (interest rates) by their encouragement to create money from thin air.

This in my view goes quite a way, not all the way, mind, to explain truly unaffordable housing & rent....and the odious ever widening gap between rich & poor.......... and I'm right-wing ffs!!

With thanks to injin (where ever he may be) for opening my eyes ...... sometimes wish he hadn't.

 

[nickc]

16 hours ago, spygirl said:

Do you mean LL?

Or do you mean IOBTL LLs?

Gidiot/BoE should have moved faster in 2010, shutting down IOBTL. They didnt. 

The numbers behind io btl are fucking insane. These need to be priced like commercial bridging loans, which is what they are.

If you want to buy a house to rent out, fine. However, they should be commercial mortgages, repaid over a 10-15 year period.

Yes but the ROOT cause is interest rates that are manipulated. Price honest money according to it's scarcity and all else you mention becomes moot.....?