How does Buy to Let END!

[spygirl]

On 13/07/2019 at 09:35, A_P said:

@spygirl you're all over the place

ignore the initial rate? Won't be able to go onto a new rate or switch provider?

Yes they advertise the LTV product not to sell it

Any data to back up no (or very few) IO mortgages are being written? 

It sounds like to me you're talking from anecdotal and wishful thinking. Undoubtedly the barriers of entry and some of the benefits to your everyday layman have been reduced, however to say BTL is dead is very far from a clear picture you would like to paint. Where is that Professor Werner video again....

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by spygirl

[King Penda]

They are fucked I’ve actually had one of my old bosses message me for financial advice today I was fucking stunned .I’m like I’m an idiot she was no I’m the idiot you said this would happen 3 years ago . She is you told me not to buy a hot tub at peak hot tub prices . I’ve given her some advice about overpaying morgages and sallery sacrifice. 

[King Penda]

39 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Shock poll finds 44% of landlords will sell up

https://www.property118.com/shock-poll-finds-44-of-landlords-will-sell-up/

To whom?

 

shaun carter

20:02 PM, 27th April 2023, About 2 hours ago

This case you have to feel sorry for both landlords and tenants.

The goverment are totally to blame. If I had to highlight how stupid they are the word stupid would be written continuously, never ending.

Not letting landlords claim interest as an expense !!!!! That is trades discrimination. Everybody else can. I want to confront House of Lords on this. I feel like just barging in, with a live film crew.. Best bit they tax the interest, as if its earnings.

Oh thats land lords biggest expense. Oh let put interest rates up so landlords are forced to put rents up.

Why are interest rates going up; to tackle inflation. Inflation is goverments fault again. Why ? Because they let companies like shell make an extra 30 billion for quarter year.

Der goverment !!! as that 30 billion is extra on inflation figures.no to mention all the other electric companies profits.

The goverment are forcing people to spend more, by having to spend more on electric. This is wrong , and goverment should be prosecuted !!!!

The electric payouts ! Wake up everybody its not a payout, its an investment. With rocketed electric bills they soon claw back with all rhe massive tax increases they will get from higher electric.

Best bit these french electric companies never paid tax for years. Goverment saying no french company no need to pay tax, as our tax payers will cover it. Even now its only small amount.

This new wirlds longest cable for electric; prices want go down, they will go up.

I feel for the tenant too ! Less house due to this stupid epc rating c; oh install storage heaters the tenants can't afford to run. On paper house better, but thick governent tenants cant afford to run them, so houses worse.

Please people support me, and we must now take on the goverment, before its too late.

Contact me [email protected]
We need to help each other

 

My errection is outstanding at this news .particularly if your sisters have to move in your spare room 

Edited April 27, 2023 by King Penda

[leonardratso]

2 minutes ago, King Penda said:

They are fucked I’ve actually had one of my old bosses message me for financial advice today I was fucking stunned .I’m like I’m an idiot she was no I’m the idiot you said this would happen 3 years ago . She is you told me not to buy a hot tub at peak hot tub prices . I’ve given her some advice about overpaying morgages and sallery sacrifice. 

you right, ive upped my pension contribution 5%-->10% today, then ill go and divert it to a better fund once its in, im thinking of pushing it much further - my take home will down, but so will my tax bill, its not great but fuck them, fuck them all.

[AWW]

48 minutes ago, spygirl said:

@aol.com

Sure sign of a fuckwit.

[King Penda]

17 minutes ago, leonardratso said:

you right, ive upped my pension contribution 5%-->10% today, then ill go and divert it to a better fund once its in, im thinking of pushing it much further - my take home will down, but so will my tax bill, its not great but fuck them, fuck them all.

It’s about many things I was chatting to a friend earlier and she simply does not believe I can live on 2 shifts a week .so I did rough calculations for her on my out goings (I’ve just paid a years car insurance and water rates ).2 shifts a week is 1100 over 4 weeks.I added minimum wage at the bottom for her if I get a basic minimum wage job .my outgoings will drop actually working (gas a lecky a wild guess but if I work 15 shifts a month it will plummet in winter ) . Obviously I pointed out stunts like 500 for a Ukrainian tax free did not even count overtime has an option.without being arogent I actually think I could save close to 1000 a month even on minimum wage (don’t forget the 190 interest IF I can get 5% on my savings. This is just on one income not 2 .this is why I simply don’t care how bad things actually get my only skill is my adaptability.obviously I might have missed something but it’s not sky Netflix or a tv license 

[spygirl]

6 hours ago, AWW said:

Sure sign of a fuckwit.

I did notice that and think the same.

 

 

[GTM]

7 hours ago, spygirl said:

This is wrong , and goverment should be prosecuted !!!!

 

7 hours ago, spygirl said:

Please people support me, and we must now take on the goverment, before its too late.

😂

When your business plan amounts to I need to prosecute the Government or I'm screwed you should probably stop and think for a moment. Once you do you'll realise that you are in fact screwed and your efforts would be best directed at ensuring your "business" collapses with as little damage to yourself as you can manage. 

[spygirl]

7 hours ago, King Penda said:

They are fucked I’ve actually had one of my old bosses message me for financial advice today I was fucking stunned .I’m like I’m an idiot she was no I’m the idiot you said this would happen 3 years ago . She is you told me not to buy a hot tub at peak hot tub prices . I’ve given her some advice about overpaying morgages and sallery sacrifice. 

How many financial fuckwits with access to credit is there out there???

Well ...

ust stand near an A road or visit the local out of town shopping centre and count the nubmer of expensive new cars. Most if not all will be PCP. Thats the fuckwits whod have got into BTL.

Theres a lot of them, isnt there?

 

 

 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, spygirl said:

Honestly, I doubt there's another group in British society that even comes close to BTLers in terms of the sense of massive entitlement and constantly whining about being hard done by despite being handed so much effortless win by policymakers.

Want to claim interest as a business expense? Move the properties inside a company structure like you should have done in the first place. The government will even let you dodge the capital gains tax if you claim you are landlording as a job, do you need the Chancellor of the Exchequer to come round and wipe your arse as well?

Edited April 28, 2023 by Guest

[spygirl]

16 minutes ago, Darude said:

Honestly, I doubt there's another group in British society that even comes close to BTLers in terms of the sense of massive entitlement and constantly whining about being hard done by despite being handed so much effortless win by policymakers.

Want to claim interest as a business expense? Move the properties inside a company structure like you should have done in the first place. The government will even let you dodge the capital gains tax if you claim you are landlording as a job, do you need the Chancellor of the Exchequer to come round and wipe your arse as well?

You forgot - jaw dropping stupidity....

 

[King Penda]

14 minutes ago, spygirl said:

You forgot - jaw dropping stupidity....

 

Next up ban evictions unless repossessed 

[King Penda]

12 hours ago, leonardratso said:

you right, ive upped my pension contribution 5%-->10% today, then ill go and divert it to a better fund once its in, im thinking of pushing it much further - my take home will down, but so will my tax bill, its not great but fuck them, fuck them all.

She had to hire a crane to get it in the garden this is peak covid .btw we had to carry on going work and has her husband was a paramedic he did . I was thinking wtf.

[Talking Monkey]

5 hours ago, Darude said:

Honestly, I doubt there's another group in British society that even comes close to BTLers in terms of the sense of massive entitlement and constantly whining about being hard done by despite being handed so much effortless win by policymakers.

Want to claim interest as a business expense? Move the properties inside a company structure like you should have done in the first place. The government will even let you dodge the capital gains tax if you claim you are landlording as a job, do you need the Chancellor of the Exchequer to come round and wipe your arse as well?

Why dont they do that is there some disincentive like being a ltd company they can only use more expensive credit

[AlfredTheLittle]

4 hours ago, Talking Monkey said:

Why dont they do that is there some disincentive like being a ltd company they can only use more expensive credit

If they already own the house and want to transfer it to a company the company has to pay stamp duty, and they also might have to pay capital gains tax. If they buy it in a company in the first place it's ok, but mortgage rates are higher and they have all the hassle of running a company, so it won't suit all the landlords who claim to be 'accidental'

[sancho panza]

9 hours ago, Talking Monkey said:

Why dont they do that is there some disincentive like being a ltd company they can only use more expensive credit

In addition to @AlfredTheLittle response.also worth noting that the main reason for the hike in laon rates is taht the BTLers own home is at the end of the default chain if they own say 3 BTL's and and OO,then once the equity from the BTLs is exhausted the bank can chase the equity in the OO.In  a ltd co the OO is protected as long as held outside the ltd co

Currently dealing with a family friend with 20 odd BTL's that is in this postion.Theyre all going.Inside a Ltd co.the BTLers own hosue would be safe.

as @spygirl is oft prone to say the 'level of fuckwittery' is something to behold.

@Darude did a nice summation earlier but the following comment sums up the problems a lot more than the guy probabaly realsies

'Not letting landlords claim interest as an expense !!!!! That is trades discrimination. Everybody else can.'.......

everyone except maybe some important groups like owner occupiers.

Edited April 28, 2023 by sancho panza

[spygirl]

15 hours ago, Talking Monkey said:

Why dont they do that is there some disincentive like being a ltd company they can only use more expensive credit

 

11 hours ago, AlfredTheLittle said:

If they already own the house and want to transfer it to a company the company has to pay stamp duty, and they also might have to pay capital gains tax. If they buy it in a company in the first place it's ok, but mortgage rates are higher and they have all the hassle of running a company, so it won't suit all the landlords who claim to be 'accidental'

A LtdCO is a different legal entity to a person.

A property owned by a company must be *SOLD* at market value to a LtdCO where that person is a director.

Swapping assets between a LtdCO and a person will always end badly, in terms of HMRC.

Eveyyhing in and out of a lTdCo needs a proper accounting record.

 

 

 

[spygirl]

16 hours ago, Talking Monkey said:

Why dont they do that is there some disincentive like being a ltd company they can only use more expensive credit

You seem to think that BTL is full of thoughtful grownups.

Its not.

As sancho quoted me later down this thread - its fuckwits all the way.

Lets do a quick history of fuckwits.

 

Original Sin

BTL started in the late 90s when ARLA successfully lobbied the banks n BSes that the short term tenancy laws brought in the late 80s mean that rentals were safe lending.

The ptic was that the tenancy allowed the LL i.e. the bank to repossess within a short (2months) period. A nice easy, short, cheap legally guaranteed process. Just 2 months. Nothing for the bankto worry about.

Banks had some bad residual memory of the the old tenancy where thered leant to a LL who was stuck with a tenant on fixed rent til they died.

Not place where a bank would want to be when life expectancy went from 50s to 80s.

Anyhow, the new tenacy NEVER provide a simple short quick process to get the the house back. A S21 is a request to leave a property. To get rid of a tenant you need to go to court after serving a correctS21.

In the best of time this could take 6 months.

Now as theres so many people in PRS and tenants are wise to legal process and judges/courts are wise to the fact tenants are wise *AND* are being leaned on by UKGOV and LAs to *NOT* evict,

*ANY* business tat has to rely on going to the court is FUCKED. All legal processes are slow, expensive and hard to determine.

This S21 route wasnt a thing back in the early days of BTL (90s-00s) when the PRS was mainly students and young processionals who would have moved on in a year or so.

However ... once the PRS started to fill up families, then families on beneits ... thats when banks should have run to the hills.

 

2+2 = 10

, eager young *cough* ARLA inspired properdee investor .. 00s - new millennia, new idea ..

Ehh Ethel we've done so well with property (most BTL in 2000is would were  45+), i..e we didnt get repo 10y ago, a bloke at the office told me about this great way to invest in properdee.

Except it doesn't work. The yields dont support the lending.

Early BTL mortgages were still shot (10-15) and repayment.

Great for the old school LL who could only ever relatively low sums (less than 50%) at high prices (5%+ spread over BoE base) from non banks.

For the potless fuckwits they be borrowing at 10%+ and renting at 5%. Even these fuckwits werent that dumb.

So ARLA went back to its spread sheet and came up with IO BTL.

At this point the BoE should have stepped in and closed it down.

Is fine LL borrowing from the private finance sector, who raise money first before lending it out.

Its a different, insane thing having banks draw down money from BoE to do IO lending.

However this was 2002ish, just at the start of Browns massive credit boom. The UK was going to get *RICH* thru the finsec.... What could go wrong?

And at this point UK Housing was already long overdue a correction, so normal mortgage lending had fallen away.

, you have a large number of people borrowing huge sums.

Mix that with Greenspan 9/11 response (cut IR) etc etc.

 

Investment v Business. Words and their meaning are important

HMRC rules have never allowed cost to be offset against an investment.

However if youve got a business, trading, then the rules on that are clear - IR are a cost and can be offset against income.

Whats a business? HMRC have some various rules. They need to see a person trading profitably i.e. putting money in, doing stuff, etc etc.

Even then, theyd go nuts about IO BTL.

Owning BTL, using an agent isnt a business.

HMRC dont need to prove this, just google. The fuckwits do it for them -

.https://www.barclays.co.uk/mortgages/buy-to-let/how-to-let-guide/

Our buy-to-let mortgages could help you make a success of your investment, whether you’re a first-time buyer or building up your property investment portfolio.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/buytolet/article-11181431/A-tenth-buy-let-landlords-rely-property-pension.html

Over half of landlords are using properties as a long-term investment 

https://www.property118.com/more-than-half-of-landlords-view-btl-properties-as-a-pension/

etc etc.

If you are claim interest against income and HMRC have a chat then you are running a business. If you say pension or investment then you have fucked yourself.

Of course, youd need to be a LtdCO do that - HMRC do expect people to form a LtdCo for a business.

Of course, the BTL bank dont like LtdCO - companies are bad. Someone who having a fat cunt like Fergus with 2000 IO BTL is seem as a safe bet tan lending a few 100k to widget maker.

Banks are fuckwits too.

 

Its ends with a bang not a whimper

So .... John n Ethel have managed to steer their way thru the propeerty junked fo 20-25.

They didnt invest in terraces in an old  Northern pit village, which would have been stripped of is boiler n copper within ~3 months.

They didnt let to Shazza - or Xabogo - 10 kids, whod have spent the rent on 'stuff' and then refuse  to leave.

They didnt let to 'Pawvel' from Gdansk who, as well as not paying rent sublet the place to 20 Roma whove  dirty protest trashed the place.

They didnt let to Mohammed from <shithole> hos managed to scam the deeds over to him and then sold the property to someone else, cos the LL left the management to an agent....

Now John n Ethel just need to make the one and only capital repayment for an IO mortgage, right at the end.

OK, <bank> weve not got the money. Can you hang on whilst we get rid of the tenant and sell the house.

<Bank> - You fucking what? We want the money *NOW*

A non performing  loan, is very expensive to a bank. Theres all sort of shit that happens and cost involved.

A bank that suddenly starts getting non perming loans will quickly go bust - banks are very leveraged. Bump in the road and they blow up. See SVB.

And in a lot towns, IO BTL have been *THE MARKET* in the last 20.

and the whole IO BTL business have sucked what would have been FTBS equity (mortgage capital repayments) over the last 20y.

Theres no money to buy these places.

The repayment of the mortgage all falls on the LL assets. And by assets I mean OO property and pension - IO BTL are commercial loans,  LL are old (55+) a bank can and do force the LL to draw down the pension to repay any all shortfall.

When it comes to you versus the bank on solvency then bank will fight for everything. And they have retained lawyers.

[Castlevania]

On 28/04/2023 at 00:01, spygirl said:

Shock poll finds 44% of landlords will sell up

https://www.property118.com/shock-poll-finds-44-of-landlords-will-sell-up/

To whom?

 

shaun carter

20:02 PM, 27th April 2023, About 2 hours ago

This case you have to feel sorry for both landlords and tenants.

The goverment are totally to blame. If I had to highlight how stupid they are the word stupid would be written continuously, never ending.

Not letting landlords claim interest as an expense !!!!! That is trades discrimination. Everybody else can. I want to confront House of Lords on this. I feel like just barging in, with a live film crew.. Best bit they tax the interest, as if its earnings.

Oh thats land lords biggest expense. Oh let put interest rates up so landlords are forced to put rents up.

Why are interest rates going up; to tackle inflation. Inflation is goverments fault again. Why ? Because they let companies like shell make an extra 30 billion for quarter year.

Der goverment !!! as that 30 billion is extra on inflation figures.no to mention all the other electric companies profits.

The goverment are forcing people to spend more, by having to spend more on electric. This is wrong , and goverment should be prosecuted !!!!

The electric payouts ! Wake up everybody its not a payout, its an investment. With rocketed electric bills they soon claw back with all rhe massive tax increases they will get from higher electric.

Best bit these french electric companies never paid tax for years. Goverment saying no french company no need to pay tax, as our tax payers will cover it. Even now its only small amount.

This new wirlds longest cable for electric; prices want go down, they will go up.

I feel for the tenant too ! Less house due to this stupid epc rating c; oh install storage heaters the tenants can't afford to run. On paper house better, but thick governent tenants cant afford to run them, so houses worse.

Please people support me, and we must now take on the goverment, before its too late.

Contact me [email protected]
We need to help each other

 

What a bellend

[Loki]

I had no idea AOL was still around 

 

[King Penda]

On 29/04/2023 at 06:27, spygirl said:

 

A LtdCO is a different legal entity to a person.

A property owned by a company must be *SOLD* at market value to a LtdCO where that person is a director.

Swapping assets between a LtdCO and a person will always end badly, in terms of HMRC.

Eveyyhing in and out of a lTdCo needs a proper accounting record.

 

 

 

I know it’s not has easy has a lot think I’d heard it’s ok to start a ltd then start buying but not just swap . Mind I’ve no proof of this I was just listening to two landlords talking in the pub 

[spygirl]

9 hours ago, King Penda said:

I know it’s not has easy has a lot think I’d heard it’s ok to start a ltd then start buying but not just swap . Mind I’ve no proof of this I was just listening to two landlords talking in the pub 

Pre 2000 a LL would only be able to borrow from a finance co (a non bank has to sell bonds for the money to loan out) or, at a push, a commercial bank.

Both would lend very litle (sub 50%), charge a lot (+5% over base) and require first born child etc etc.

The demand for LL mortgage was pretty small.

These are LtdCO mortgages - banks dont like lending to them and charge accordingly. And LL dot dont like using them The PRS before BTL was mainly cash buyers.

 

For some fucked in the head reason bank doing IO BTL price them at the same rate as a repayment  resi mortgage.

This is nuts. They are on drugs.

The banks had convinced themselves that lending 90%+ on an IO terms to a LL is after than lending to the tenant, even though its the tenant who pays the fucking rent.

Any BTL LL who thinks they are going to get LrdCo cheaply and easily is on drugs,.

 

[spygirl]

On 21/04/2023 at 22:44, spygirl said:

To begin, the first step is learning about the trade of renting out a property that is owned by someone else. Stephanie said: "I think the first thing is to understand the strategy to a high standard - find out about it.

"You rent a property for usually three to five years. You pay the owner or letting agent a guaranteed rent - usually, you are going to take on paying the bills. You rent the property out to tenants for a higher, yet still affordable rate than you pay the owner."

"The difference is your profit after the running costs of the property - you want something that is a win-win for all three parties

Sooo obvious when they write it down.

Popped up on my feed.

https://inews.co.uk/news/rent-to-rent-how-property-scheme-trending-tiktok-worsening-uk-rental-crisis-2305646

Not worth read. It's the I

https://www.propertyhawk.co.uk/magazines/rent-to-rent-is-immoral/

Rent to Rent is Immoral

‘Rent to rent’ sometimes known as rent2rent is the latest get quick scheme dreamt up by the property ‘fast buck’ merchants.

What is Rent to Rent?

Well, ostensibly it involves predator like behaviour from opportunist tenants, who rent a property that they then let out as an HMO, letting out the individual rooms separately. This tenant then makes a profit by drawing in a larger rent from the multiple tenants than the rent they are paying out to their unsuspecting landlord

[No One]

On 18/04/2023 at 09:31, Wight Flight said:

We hear 500k landlords are due to sell up.

I do wonder who is going to buy these houses?

The landlords are selling because the numbers no longer stack up, so why would another landlord buy?

Tenants are currently paying a lot less in rent than they would for a mortgage on their home - so probably can't afford to buy, but also why would they when they currently have a good deal and are looking at buying in to a falling market?

I think we have a proper stalemate at current prices.

 

On 19/04/2023 at 13:14, spygirl said:

From TOS - 

 

This sounds like sooo many of the trades n self employedi n Scabby .

It’s my dad’s birthday today, he got a letter in the mail… one of his mortgages his interest rate’s up from 4%->7.5%.

Over the years he slowly acquired ~7 properties here in the southeast. These properties are all on BTL (interest only) mortgages. Operating on his assumption “property only goes up”, I’m confident he holds little equity (<15% LTV) in these properties.

Naturally, I know very few specifics, but I do know he owes at least £3 million to one mortgage provider alone.

He’s been reluctant to discuss this, he sees property as his retirement fund, he doesn’t think it’s possible it will crash.

i’m not saying it will crash, only that even if it doesn’t, interest rates are high, and other landlords will also start to find themselves in a similar position to him, making his leveraged exposure to the property market more risky.

With all of his fixed term interest rates coming to an end, i can tell he’s worried. He won’t be able to absorb the increases, and with the CoL crisis, neither will his tenants.

What im asking is:

1. Is there a service, for some ‘reasonable’ fee/commission that will take a property portfolio and liquidate it, even with tenants in situ?

2. Are there better ways of reducing his exposure to the property market?

3. What would you do if you found youself in a similar situation.

4. Is there simply good tips around discussing personal finance with somebody that is reluctant (and potentially suffering their mental health)?

Supplementary info:

He owns a few garages (100% equity), these are all let out, working on the assumption he owns 3 and they’re worth ~£15,000

He owns a small beach hut possibly £25-£30,000

Hes a bricklayer ~£200/day

Hes had a Ltd company for 25 years, although since 2020 been taking fewer jobs, and prefers working for others on his day rate.

He has no debt other than a £20,000 business loan ~0.5% interest (again assumed fixed rate)

no vehicle loans, just a work van purchased outright.

Hes almost illiterate (if it makes any odds)

Tl;dr: man owes millions on property with <15% equity, all currently being rented. He’s approaching retirement, and his interest rates are all about to double. His tenants can’t absorb the cost, neither can he…

What should he do? What can i do for him?

 

[Phil]

2 hours ago, No One said:

 

Convert your garage for the cunt to live in till he dies. Sorted.