How does Buy to Let END!

[Wight Flight]

1 hour ago, Joxer said:

I think I said this before but a landlord trash talking a tenant in situ is a very bad idea . What has the tenant got to lose if the landlord is not willing to help them with a reference. 

A tenant with nothing to lose is the mostly costly type of eviction for a landlord. Easily over £5k for the courts, lawyer and bailiffs, that's before counting the cost of any damage the tenant does in spite.

Yes, but the landlord only loses money.

The tenant becomes homeless.

tricky game to play.

[spygirl]

On 05/05/2023 at 15:22, Darude said:

I suspect backbench Tory MPs with property portfolios are going to drag their feet so much on this bill that it won't pass before the general election.

Gow many back bench Con MPs have BTL?

Most MPs 2nd homes are Lonfon flats.

Labour n lefties in general tend to buy mire property.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/jan/20/politics.labour

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/mar/14/tony-cherie-blair-property-empire-worth-estimated-27m-pounds

 

[spygirl]

On 05/05/2023 at 14:33, sancho panza said:

https://propertyindustryeye.com/mps-could-be-earning-as-much-as-2-2m-a-year-from-renting-out-homes/

The chancellor, Jeremy Hunt, and the home secretary, Suella Braverman, are among five cabinet ministers who earn at least £10,000 a year renting out property, a new snapshot of parliament’s landlords has revealed.

The study, carried out by campaign group 38 Degrees, counted 87 MP landlords – more than 13% of the Commons – of whom 53 claimed rental income from one home and 34 from two or more properties.

Hunt has declared he operates seven flats in Southampton, while Braverman, Gillian Keegan, the education secretary, and Lucy Frazer, the culture secretary, all declared one rental property in the latest House of Commons members’ register of financial interests.

Alex Chalk, the justice secretary, declared a flat in Shepherd’s Bush, west London, and a share in a cottage in Gloucestershire, both producing more than £10,000 a year in income.

On the Labour frontbench, David Lammy, Emily, Lady Nugee and Lucy Powell are all landlords.

Overall, MPs could be earning as much as £2.2m a year from renting out homes, the research found.

Straws. Grasping.

Being a LL has the same popularity with voters as being a kiddy fiddler.

[spygirl]

20 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

It isn't even a bill that i think renters want.

just give us back the six month notice period we had during lockdown. No sensible landlord would object to that.

The LL wony.

The banks will.

 

[spygirl]

9 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

True. But you can kiss your good reference goodbye.

Just a reference.

If its writing tge LL has to truthful.

Tgry cant make a fuss about s21.

Waiting for the bailiffs us entirely legit way to exit.

 

[Wight Flight]

2 minutes ago, spygirl said:

The LL wony.

The banks will.

 

I would make a happy compromise.

6 months notice in exchange for automatic eviction 14 days after non payment of rent.

[spygirl]

1 minute ago, Wight Flight said:

I would make a happy compromise.

6 months notice in exchange for automatic eviction 14 days after non payment of rent.

Well, thats it the court do provision for quicker eviction when someone stops paying rent.

Fair enough.

However courts interpretation of the eviction / repossession process is rapidly evolving to protection of the tenant.

Again, when the PRS was dealing mainly with young, childless  workers in their 20s for a year or two there was no issue. 

However that market is pretty small

LL have brought this on themselves by going down the route of families n people on bennies.

 

[Wight Flight]

Just now, spygirl said:

Well, thats it the court do provision for quicker eviction when someone stops paying rent.

Fair enough.

However courts interpretation of the eviction / repossession process is rapidly evolving to protection of the tenant.

Again, when the PRS was dealing mainly with young, childless  workers in their 20s for a year or two there was no issue. 

However that market is pretty small

LL have brought this on themselves by going down the route of families n people on bennies.

 

Have you seen the power commercial landlords have?

[spygirl]

On 04/05/2023 at 11:12, eek said:

The thing to remember is that HMRC are busy and don't rush into things.

So the first time you discover HMRC dislike your 2019/20 tax return will be in late March 2024

Which means that while everything looks lovely at the moment there may well be a nasty surprise well down the line...

I would guess theyll say - invest and can it.

I'd guess 6k of legal fees will be dwarfed by the fine and back interest payments.

[spygirl]

1 minute ago, Wight Flight said:

Have you seen the power commercial landlords have?

Yes.

Similar to commercial lenders, which covers BTL.

I'd always wondered why anyone would take a commercial lease - without putting a LtdCo between yourelf n LL.

 

[spygirl]

https://www.property118.com/lets-club-together-for-our-btl-sell-offs/

Let’s club together for our BTL sell-offs?

by Readers Question

0:05 AM, 5th May 2023, About 2 days ago 12

Text Size  

Hello, with a glass of red in one hand I had a thought . . . I am considering selling off a BTL house valued at £1.4m which makes less than 3% return in rent – but I hate the idea of giving this government the £350,000 CGT it will force me to hand over if I wish to exit this screwed BTL business.

I am sure there are many more LLs who face selling up due to the government tax/regulations that strangle a good landlord providing a lovely large house in London without profit as the only motivator.

Why don’t we club together, hold back our sell-offs collectively (thus millions in CGT ), and sell/pay ONLY if they reverse section 24?

Governments have accepted a lot less to implement far more, plus the Press may then have some understanding about the amounts of tax we pay towards schools, nurses etc.

Yours,

Dick Turpin

[Wight Flight]

1 minute ago, spygirl said:

Yes.

Similar to commercial lenders, which covers BTL.

I'd always wondered why anyone would take a commercial lease - without putting a LtdCo between yourelf n LL.

 

Especially a fully repairing one.

Best option is to bust the company when the lease expires.

[spygirl]

UKGOV collected 18bln in CGT.

Thats a rapid rise over the ladt few years and CGT on properdee only makes a limited part of total CGT receipts.

 

[spygirl]

4 minutes ago, spygirl said:

https://www.property118.com/lets-club-together-for-our-btl-sell-offs/

Let’s club together for our BTL sell-offs?

by Readers Question

0:05 AM, 5th May 2023, About 2 days ago 12

Text Size  

Hello, with a glass of red in one hand I had a thought . . . I am considering selling off a BTL house valued at £1.4m which makes less than 3% return in rent – but I hate the idea of giving this government the £350,000 CGT it will force me to hand over if I wish to exit this screwed BTL business.

I am sure there are many more LLs who face selling up due to the government tax/regulations that strangle a good landlord providing a lovely large house in London without profit as the only motivator.

Why don’t we club together, hold back our sell-offs collectively (thus millions in CGT ), and sell/pay ONLY if they reverse section 24?

Governments have accepted a lot less to implement far more, plus the Press may then have some understanding about the amounts of tax we pay towards schools, nurses etc.

Yours,

Dick Turpin

I could see this coming in 2017.
I remortgaged with the intention of letting my house in London, and using the equity to buy a resi elsewhere. Then the true horror of S24 hit me. Mortgages of £950k, starting rental income of £36k (and a lot more now) on that property plus rental income of £30k elsewhere, and salary in the higher rate tax bracket... Plus, when I decided to sell after, say, 5 years, CGT on £1.8m with fewer and fewer reliefs.
I decided not to let my house, and didn't buy elsewhere. Instead, I invested the equity I had released, and earned more, with zero hassle. I then sold my flat ASAP, took what reliefs were available, and invested that [significant] equity. That reduced the impact of S24. I then sold my home with even more equity and with no CGT liability in 2019.
I've now retired and in the 20% tax bracket, and will exit the PRS completely this year [having removed 10 beds from the rental market].
Government and the likes of shelter need to appreciate landlords have choice when it comes to what they do with 'THEIR' property and their money!

Any fucker who read the S24 plan could see that.

2015. 8 years ago ffs.

https://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/205887-a-goodbye-to-all-that-buy-to-let/

[spygirl]

Thousands of landlords sell up to avoid net zero rules as buy-to-let no longer ‘viable’

Investors forced to ensure their properties have an EPC rating of C or higher from 2028

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/buy-to-let/thousands-of-landlords-sell-avoid-net-zero-rules/

[Bobthebuilder]

28 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Thousands of landlords sell up to avoid net zero rules as buy-to-let no longer ‘viable’

Investors forced to ensure their properties have an EPC rating of C or higher from 2028

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/buy-to-let/thousands-of-landlords-sell-avoid-net-zero-rules/

As most of you will know, landlord gas safety certificates are most of my business. Noticed a huge drop off in work this last year, I drive past many houses I used to cover that are up for sale or SSTC. Its not every LL though, the bigger more professional set ups are doing works for the EPC rating either at end of tenancy or, in some cases evicting tenants to carry out refurbs to achieve higher rental yield.

My best estimate is that within 5 years current BTL properties will sell off up to around 40%.

[Wight Flight]

I don't see why .gov wants to kill BTL. it is a brilliant tax raiser.

i briefly considered buying a flat near me for about £200k.

It isn't where i would want to live, but if I aligned the rent periods with mine it would be a safety net.

However, i would be taxed on the rental income, and pat CGT on any increase in value, whilst my landlord is paying tax on my rent.

Combined hmrc gets tax on £24k per year.

If i just bought they would get nothing.

logically they ought to be making BTL easier, not harder.

[One percent]

5 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

I don't see why .gov wants to kill BTL. it is a brilliant tax raiser.

i briefly considered buying a flat near me for about £200k.

It isn't where i would want to live, but if I aligned the rent periods with mine it would be a safety net.

However, i would be taxed on the rental income, and pat CGT on any increase in value, whilst my landlord is paying tax on my rent.

Combined hmrc gets tax on £24k per year.

If i just bought they would get nothing.

logically they ought to be making BTL easier, not harder.

Otoh, if someone is making money on btl, why should they take that profit tax free?  Everyone else pays tax.  

[Wight Flight]

6 minutes ago, One percent said:

Otoh, if someone is making money on btl, why should they take that profit tax free?  Everyone else pays tax.  

I don't disagree.

So why are .gov trying to kill it. Makes no sense.

[One percent]

15 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

I don't disagree.

So why are .gov trying to kill it. Makes no sense.

Good point giving your calculations. Maybe because in part, it’s driven house prices to stupid levels. So stupid, first time buyers cannot get on the ladder and therefore thinking, why bother working. Especially when they can’t afford to rent. Then there is the higher cost which means more are dependent on universal credit and housing allowance.   It’s the taxpayer and young who are essentially paying for it.  

[Wight Flight]

Just now, One percent said:

Good point giving your calculations. Maybe because in part, it’s driven house prices to stupid levels. So stupid, first time buyers cannot get on the ladder and therefore thinking, why bother working. Especially when they can’t afford to rent. Then there is the higher cost which means more are dependent on universal credit and housing allowance.   It’s the taxpayer and young who are essentially paying for it.  

No. They don't care about people.

Renting is a good choice for many if we had the systems used across Europe. But they won't do that.

i don't understand their end game.

[JoeDavola]

Wonder is this a levereged BTL-er getting out...quite a decent flat IMO, and seems to have a yield of about 5% maybe a bit more:

https://www.propertypal.com/apt-3-73-eglantine-avenue-malone-belfast/830569

[BurntBread]

38 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

I don't understand their end game.

I suppose there could be a short-term "end game" to get BTL to sell up and pay the capital gains tax. That may not compare to the longer-term tax on rent, but it may be an indication of government desperation now.

The other possibility is long-term thinking about what happens when the generation who now rent, retire (mostly without a significant private pension pot). Then the government will have to step in and provide housing benefit.

[Wight Flight]

28 minutes ago, BurntBread said:

I suppose there could be a short-term "end game" to get BTL to sell up and pay the capital gains tax. That may not compare to the longer-term tax on rent, but it may be an indication of government desperation now.

The other possibility is long-term thinking about what happens when the generation who now rent, retire (mostly without a significant private pension pot). Then the government will have to step in and provide housing benefit.

The solution to the first para is easy. Every time they remortgage they get a valuation. Charge CGT on account at that point. I am surprised they haven't done that yet.

The second para is a problem for a future gov so can be kicked down the road.

[JoeDavola]

14 hours ago, BurntBread said:

The other possibility is long-term thinking about what happens when the generation who now rent, retire (mostly without a significant private pension pot). Then the government will have to step in and provide housing benefit.

I just think they won’t be able to retire at all.

However real ticking time bomb is when they aren’t able to retire but are too old and in bad shape mentally/physically to be able to work - say todays already unhealthy out of shape 40 year olds at 60.

Add a further 20 years of AI/automation progress and there’s no fucking way IMO that there will be enough low-medium skill office work to keep all or most of this demographic employed. Most people I’ve known start falling apart a bit physically in mid-50’s and todays young won’t be any different.

So you’ll have a significant and growing number of people who need housed and benefits because they can’t work from say 55 to whatever state pension is and those who make it to state pension age will need housed as the pension won’t cover rent.

Lack of even distribution of home ownership because of the BTL spiv economy and boomer greed hoovering up houses might actually be what brings the UK gov finances crashing down although I’d say @DurhamBorn would say they’ll collapse long before the timescales I’ve given above.

Edited May 8, 2023 by JoeDavola