Property crash, just maybe it really is different this time

[One percent]

1 minute ago, Petatep said:

Same around here in the Yorkie Dales. A few houses in every village and very well built. Most were bought under Thatcher but luckily for us the Southern incomers aren't too keen on them so when they come up for sale us locals get a look in. The Southerners are welcome to the damp ridden period stone built cottages they favour.

What is it with white settlers and their desire for damp riddled hovels. Same here. Years ago, no one would touch them with a barge pole as they were a money pit to put right and to heat. 

[One percent]

2 minutes ago, Rare Bear said:

It was the ending of multiple reliefs that caused the mad price surge. Or rather the announcement of it well before it happened. 

A sort of precedent for the Cyclops announcing the sell off of gold.

Yes. Everyone tried to jump on the bandwagon before it ended. 

[Bobthebuilder]

3 minutes ago, Petatep said:

Same around here in the Yorkie Dales. A few houses in every village and very well built. Most were bought under Thatcher but luckily for us the Southern incomers aren't too keen on them so when they come up for sale us locals get a look in. The Southerners are welcome to the damp ridden period stone built cottages they favour.

The ones in Dorset currently go for £400k, and normally have a cesspit.

[Rare Bear]

15 minutes ago, One percent said:

Yes. Everyone tried to jump on the bandwagon before it ended. 

I remember a couple of people who did it. One of them sold a flat he owned in Brighton to buy his share of a house in Ladbroke grove. That was when a decent house in Notting hill might be £100,000. The film was a long way off. I don't know where the house on Ladbroke grove was but once you went past Blenheim Crescent it kept going downhill in those days. Don't know how long he was stuck with that.

The other bought into Peckham. His girlfriend simply refused to move. Shepherds Bush was a bit of a dump then but no way was she moving to Peckham.

About 5 years later I happened to be working with that guy again. He was buying himself out of the negative equity then.

 

[Petatep]

21 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

The ones in Dorset currently go for £400k, and normally have a cesspit.

Gulp. £175k for a 3 bed semi round here (last I looked). £600k for an old detached stone built.

26 minutes ago, One percent said:

What is it with white settlers and their desire for damp riddled hovels. Same here. Years ago, no one would touch them with a barge pole as they were a money pit to put right and to heat. 

They've got the money.

[spunko]

2 hours ago, wherebee said:

Complaining about unearned wealth is like complaining that not all people are born perfectly equal in looks.  Your parents give you stuff - sometimes genes, sometimes money.  Both help with life.

Plus, as you say, any inheritance tax will be sidestepped by the rich.  Count on it.

I'd rather have more consumption taxes at the top end.  Want a private jet?  Sure.  50,000 quid per landing.

 

I agree with that, but increasingly "the top end" according to the politicians and the MSM at least, isn't the billionaires. It's people who earn £125k a year. Completely different kettle of fish.

[Formerly]

47 minutes ago, spunko said:

I agree with that, but increasingly "the top end" according to the politicians and the MSM at least, isn't the billionaires. It's people who earn £125k a year. Completely different kettle of fish.

Well, I'm well below that but just run some figures on my own much lower salary in preparation for pay talks. Despite a 50% increase in salary over the last 6 years, I'm actually taking home less in real-terms, using ONS RPI figures. So I'd estimate that the £125k of today in real terms equates to around £75 - 80k of 5 or so years ago. A good wage, but by no means exceptional.

[With a crooked smile]

2 hours ago, Formerly said:

So I'd estimate that the £125k of today in real terms equates to around £75 - 80k of 5 or so years ago. A good wage, but by no means exceptional.

The real killer is that over 100k they take away your tax free allowance meaning you pay 60% tax between approx 100-125k.

Despite DOSBODS moaning about 40% tax I've never been too bothered about that. But the 60% bracket above 100k really got me.

Edited May 26, 2023 by With a crooked smile

[sancho panza]

Rents are rising where we are-Leics

Can well see some elveraged LL's selling up

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fproperty%2Fnews%2Flandlord-mortgage-crisis-trigger-the-sale-of-735000-rentals%2F

Landlords risk being forced to sell more than 700,000 properties because of rising interest rates, economists have warned, as Jeremy Hunt said he would tolerate a recession to bring inflation down.

Around 735,000 properties will be lost from the rental market if rates hit 5pc, according to analysis by Capital Economics, as unaffordable mortgage costs trigger a wave of forced sales.

It came as Mr Hunt, the Chancellor, admitted in a Sky News interview that he would be comfortable with a recession caused by higher interest rates. Mr Hunt said controlling inflation was worth the pain of a short-term slowdown.

 

[tank]

18 hours ago, AWW said:

It all sounds a bit Partridge. I'll never understand the need for people who don't live here nor even visit the place to tell the world how bad it is.

It's all subjective at the end of the day.

London has been very marmite for as long as I can remember due to its extreme racial diversity. Some people love it, whereas others find it an overcrowded dystopian nightmare that now looks positively third world. 

Maybe what I'm saying is a bit Partridge as you put it, but maybe it hits a bit too close to the bone. Ethnically, most parts of our capital city look like a cross between Sub Saharan Africa and South Asia. Personally, I find this disgusting and, sadly, a portent of what is to come elsewhere. You may think London exists in its own bubble, but it doesn't. What happens there eventually gets replicated in every regional city and town of note, along with the inevitable joys of overpriced housing. 

Edited May 27, 2023 by tank

[AWW]

8 hours ago, tank said:

London has been very marmite for as long as I can remember due to its extreme racial diversity.

Isn't that just a fancy way of saying that racists don't like it?

Talking about "London" as a whole doesn't really make sense. Very white areas of London are available for people who don't want to live with non-white people. But you have to be reasonably well-off to live in them.

My area is largely Greek, Turkish and Italian. They might look a bit different to twentieth generation Anglo Saxons, but they're just as British as us - we had a coronation street party for example. And there are plenty of Angles here in any case.

I agree that there are integration issues in some areas. But not as bad as reported and not as bad as some other UK cities I've been to.

[marceau]

24 minutes ago, AWW said:

Isn't that just a fancy way of saying that racists don't like it?

Talking about "London" as a whole doesn't really make sense. Very white areas of London are available for people who don't want to live with non-white people. But you have to be reasonably well-off to live in them.

My area is largely Greek, Turkish and Italian. They might look a bit different to twentieth generation Anglo Saxons, but they're just as British as us - we had a coronation street party for example. And there are plenty of Angles here in any case.

I agree that there are integration issues in some areas. But not as bad as reported and not as bad as some other UK cities I've been to.

'Racist' here really just means English.

Edited May 27, 2023 by marceau

[Calcutta]

47 minutes ago, AWW said:

Isn't that just a fancy way of saying that racists don't like it?

Talking about "London" as a whole doesn't really make sense. Very white areas of London are available for people who don't want to live with non-white people. But you have to be reasonably well-off to live in them.

My area is largely Greek, Turkish and Italian. They might look a bit different to twentieth generation Anglo Saxons, but they're just as British as us - we had a coronation street party for example. And there are plenty of Angles here in any case.

I agree that there are integration issues in some areas. But not as bad as reported and not as bad as some other UK cities I've been to.

Whenever I'm in London I notice a surprising number of Mediterranean looking people, I do wonder why the hell they've bothered. Moving here from Pakistan or Sudan or one of those shitholes I can understand, but swapping olive groves and sunshine for kebab shops and knife crime seems like a ridiculous decision. 

[Axeman123]

1 hour ago, Calcutta said:

Whenever I'm in London I notice a surprising number of Mediterranean looking people, I do wonder why the hell they've bothered. Moving here from Pakistan or Sudan or one of those shitholes I can understand, but swapping olive groves and sunshine for kebab shops and knife crime seems like a ridiculous decision. 

They could well be Argentine, many of them look mediteranean. Apparently things are totally fucked over there just now:

 

[Cold Cold Ground]

There seem to be a lot of quite nice properties coming on in my area. Still at insane prices, but I wonder if people are starting to realise they need to get out now. I just don’t know who they are expecting to buy them. I think in the past it would have been families like mine, but it is now a choice of moving to a nicer house or retiring early. I think people are choosing to retire.

[xyz]

2 hours ago, AWW said:

Isn't that just a fancy way of saying that racists don't like it?

Talking about "London" as a whole doesn't really make sense. Very white areas of London are available for people who don't want to live with non-white people. But you have to be reasonably well-off to live in them.

My area is largely Greek, Turkish and Italian. They might look a bit different to twentieth generation Anglo Saxons, but they're just as British as us - we had a coronation street party for example. And there are plenty of Angles here in any case.

I agree that there are integration issues in some areas. But not as bad as reported and not as bad as some other UK cities I've been to.

Sorry have to completely disagree with this. Which white areas of London are available to people with average salaries? 

Also London hasn't always been this diverse, I know since I grew up there. The Borough I'm from was one of the whitest, but now appears to be about 40% third world and that change has happened in the last 10 years. 

I've nothing against Greeks or Italians and would prefer to have more immigration from Europe, but saying they are just as British as native British people because they attended a coronation street party is completely ridiculous. 

Also I'm sure racists don't like seeing their capital city rapidly turned into a third world shithole, along with anyone else who gives a toss about the future of this country.

[Shamone]

18 hours ago, Bobthebuilder said:

wouldn't buy a flat or house that's been built in the last 25 years

Very informative, coming from someone whose opinion I respect a lot. Our previous house was a new build, one of 2 2 bed semis built in a previous garden. We had water coming in, turned out the roofer had only sealed 3 sides of the chimney. Always wondered after that what else might be going on. 
 

Nearly bought another recently, timber frame with render. I questioned how flimsy it must be, surely you could punch through it? I don’t like timber frame.

Anyway, we settled on brick and block, early 80s. Needs a few things doing but touch wood, sturdy. Maybe we dodged a bullet?

[Bobthebuilder]

14 minutes ago, Shamone said:

Nearly bought another recently, timber frame with render. I questioned how flimsy it must be, surely you could punch through it? I don’t like timber frame.

I saw some a few years ago that were timber frame, plasterboard on the interior then some sturdy insulation material for the external. They stick brick tiles on after, so they look like they are made of brick but its just a effect.

Horrible.

[Shamone]

1 minute ago, Bobthebuilder said:

I saw some a few years ago that were timber frame, plasterboard on the interior then some sturdy insulation material for the external. They stick brick tiles on after, so they look like they are made of brick but its just a effect.

Horrible.

The one we considered didn’t even have a brick skin, just K rend (which I’ve since learned can be only a cm or so thick?). It seems so flimsy. The rafters on some of the new builds are like matchsticks.

[Bobthebuilder]

1 minute ago, Shamone said:

The one we considered didn’t even have a brick skin, just K rend (which I’ve since learned can be only a cm or so thick?). It seems so flimsy. The rafters on some of the new builds are like matchsticks.

The bricks on that picture look like effect panels stuck onto the breeze blocks.

[MrXxxx]

On 26/05/2023 at 07:54, Bilbo said:

This she told us was mainly due to the new fire regulations brought in because of Grenfell. 

Mmmm, sound like BS to me...Grenfell required rework to be done on those blocks where the panels were used, and this cost was being borne by the Housebuilders/Companies who built them for eg https://www.building.co.uk/focus/gove-cladding-deal-tracker-how-much-extra-will-each-housebuilder-pay/5116912.article

[MrXxxx]

On 26/05/2023 at 07:59, onlyme said:

Once you are in it maybe, but we'll see what really happens in some areas, then there is the parking, as well as getting there in the first place having navigated the traffic rammed into other roads.  I can see the zealots pushing as far as they can, they will try by whatever means to collapse transport use and their modus operandi is to make things as difficult and costly to comply with their mindset. 

Builders just put  it on the cost of the job [and explains it to the client]...I know one who does just that.

[MrXxxx]

On 26/05/2023 at 09:51, JoeDavola said:

It's quite interesting to think of the wider ramifications of these soaring costs of just owning/using shelter in the UK.

I think it was @longtomsilver a while back who pointed out how the council tax and heating costs are so obscene for even a modest terrace house near him that. as someone with healthy 6 figures in equities who isn't forced to live in one place, it would make far more sense for him to go and live somewhere cheap and sunny for part or even all of the year.

Knew someone who did just that. Had a stone cottage in North Wales where he ran a Paragliding school in the L spring/summer/E autumn, and spent the rest of the year in a retreat in India.

[MrXxxx]

On 26/05/2023 at 11:13, HousePriceMania said:

Still waiting for calls for the Sunake to be removed...

Yes, I wonder why that hasn't come yet [or the calls for it]...might it be the exclusive 'club' he belongs to?

[MrXxxx]

On 26/05/2023 at 12:22, JoeDavola said:

This person is still in negative equity I think - they bought during the boom before the 07-12 crash in NI. House still not worth in ££ now what it was in 2007.

Then spent a fortune on extensions and the like and just added it to the mortgage.

Fucked.

Well for such poor financial acumen they deserve to lose the lot...no sympathy there!