Property crash, just maybe it really is different this time

[AWW]

5 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

I think the S21 thing is a total red herring. It was hardly ever used apart from to get rid of antisocial tenants, or for the reasons that are still allowed (sale / landlord moving in)

I was moved out of my old flat using S21. We didn't rush to meet the deadline - I think we were there for about six months after being served.

[Wight Flight]

1 minute ago, AWW said:

I was moved out of my old flat using S21. We didn't rush to meet the deadline - I think we were there for about six months after being served.

Did the landlord give a reason?

I am on a lot of renter groups here and almost everyone has to move out because the landlord is selling.

[AWW]

8 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Did the landlord give a reason?

I am on a lot of renter groups here and almost everyone has to move out because the landlord is selling.

He didn't like that our contract had lapsed into a rolling 2-month contract and I refused to sign up for another year with a £100 a month rent increase. We needed to leave anyway as we had more kids on the way. I suspect that we could easily have stayed for a year or more after receiving the notice.

[Wight Flight]

1 minute ago, AWW said:

He didn't like that our contract had lapsed into a rolling 2-month contract and I refused to sign up for another year with a £100 a month rent increase. We needed to leave anyway as we had more kids on the way. I suspect that we could easily have stayed for a year or more after receiving the notice.

So (sorry) you could have realistically stayed if you had wanted to / couldn't find anywhere else to go by agreeing with his terms? 

[AWW]

4 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

So (sorry) you could have realistically stayed if you had wanted to / couldn't find anywhere else to go by agreeing with his terms? 

Yes, I suppose we could.

[Wight Flight]

3 minutes ago, AWW said:

Yes, I suppose we could.

Does look like your landlord played a game of chicken and lost though.

[Axeman123]

26 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

I think the S21 thing is a total red herring. It was hardly ever used apart from to get rid of antisocial tenants, or for the reasons that are still allowed (sale / landlord moving in)

I think the threat (whether explicit or implied) of an S21 was used far more often than you would think (or see in actual court figures), eg to force rent rises or impose ridiculous extra-contractual terms on tenants, and this is what made renting precarious and uncertain for many people. I think that absolute right to upend someone else's life or use the threat of it to walk all over them was a big part of the appeal of BTL for a certain type of person.

[onlyme]

59 minutes ago, AWW said:

Mine too. Or at least, it was. I am a buyer at 20x rent.

And even then, I look at what mates have to spend on houses when they find problems with them, and wonder if I even want to own one at all. If your rental has dry rot or is sliding down a hill, you can just move out.

Do not underestimate refurb costs, unless extremely handy yourself they are punishing at the moment. Some materials prices have stabilised somewhat or coming down a bit but still well up on what they were. Then there is the disruption and the liklelihood that works done will not provide excess capital gains in the coming years. Then there is the time if doing yourself, time that may be better spent.  I say this as someone with a large project and the willingness to do this over a period of years and is pretty good at cutting costs to the bone.

[onlyme]

50 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Did the landlord give a reason?

I am on a lot of renter groups here and almost everyone has to move out because the landlord is selling.

Contact who has got one away is now looking to offload the other they have locally that I look after, another has a single let that has failed to sell after two failed sales at mortgage application and is being re-let. Certaily a lot of flux in the ones I know of.

[HousePriceMania]

[sarahbell]

https://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/139/main-news/151857/chadderton-couple-escape-rental-trap-after-20-years

 

Chartered Quantity Surveyor Elaine (39) and Print Finishing Supervisor Andy (44)

Have saved up enough to buy a new build.

 

[Boon]

It's lifted straight from Countryside marketing materials:
https://www.countrysidepartnerships.com/be-inspired/first-time-buyer-success-story-we-were-stuck-rental-trap-20-years

Techincally these guys were not stuck in the rental trap as I would think Oldham would have 3 bed semis for around £100k less than what they paid, and probably were closer to £100k post GFC.

I do wonder whether the media might start referring to an ownership trap for some of these properties?

You pay top whack, in this case £325k, but also this price is flattered by a variety of sweeteners and in some cases props like HTB. Then the people try and sell the house without the new build premium, and without the sweeteners for the same price or more.

Don't wanna take a 10%+ loss? Fine, just rent it out until the market recovers. 

There must be so many new build flats like this in London. 

[HousePriceMania]

1 hour ago, sarahbell said:

https://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/139/main-news/151857/chadderton-couple-escape-rental-trap-after-20-years

 

Chartered Quantity Surveyor Elaine (39) and Print Finishing Supervisor Andy (44)

Have saved up enough to buy a new build.

 

 

[AWW]

3 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

Does look like your landlord played a game of chicken and lost though.

He had a two-month void after we left. I've chatted with the guy who moved in after us when visiting old neighbours, but didn't ask him how much he paid - it was advertised at the extra £100 the LL wanted, so even if the new guy paid full asking, it'll take the LL nearly three years to break even.

Edited May 19, 2023 by AWW

[onlyme]

8 minutes ago, AWW said:

He had a two-month void after we left. I've chatted with the guy who moved in after us when visiting old neighbours, but didn't ask him how much he paid - it was advertised at the extra £100 the LL wanted, so even if the new guy paid full asking, it'll take the LL nearly three years to break even.

In the changeover would proably have spent money on having stuff fixed / replaced / decorations as well maybe. Plus more fees for background checks and like and maybe more agent fees.

[JoeDavola]

3 hours ago, HousePriceMania said:

 

Funny how a secure roof over your head is now being normalized as being a "dream".

The "dream" of home ownership; almost as if it's an unreasonable aspiration.

Twenty years of striving for the right to own .... nope not own, for the right to sign up to likely another 30 years of debt after which you'll own your shitty UK newbuild.

Bloke will be 74 by that point. Life well lived - the 'dream' achieved.

Edited May 19, 2023 by JoeDavola

[HousePriceMania]

36 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Funny how a secure roof over your head is now being normalized as being a "dream".

The "dream" of home ownership; almost as if it's an unreasonable aspiration.

Twenty years of striving for the right to own .... nope not own, for the right to sign up to likely another 30 years of debt after which you'll own your shitty UK newbuild.

Bloke will be 74 by that point. Life well lived - the 'dream' achieved.

They'll be okay, once they realise ( if they actually exist ) that the EA who sold them the shit house with the 100% mortgage is owned by Skipton they can sue them.

 

[Malthus]

1 hour ago, JoeDavola said:

Funny how a secure roof over your head is now being normalized as being a "dream".

The "dream" of home ownership; almost as if it's an unreasonable aspiration.

Twenty years of striving for the right to own .... nope not own, for the right to sign up to likely another 30 years of debt after which you'll own your shitty UK newbuild.

Bloke will be 74 by that point. Life well lived - the 'dream' achieved.

@JoeDavola

Seeing a lot of landlords bailing out, a lot of more sales listings with no furniture and neutral decor

I love the way the media paint this as a negative when it’s actually a big win for the market and first time buyers who have been out bid by boomer landlords 😊

[JoeDavola]

49 minutes ago, Malthus said:

@JoeDavola

Seeing a lot of landlords bailing out, a lot of more sales listings with no furniture and neutral decor

I love the way the media paint this as a negative when it’s actually a big win for the market and first time buyers who have been out bid by boomer landlords 😊

It’s a win if they go on at a price FTB’s can actually afford at today’s IR’s. We really need some BTL-ers that are actually in a hurry to sell and start dropping prices a bit but not seeing that yet.

[HousePriceMania]

1 hour ago, Malthus said:

@JoeDavola

Seeing a lot of landlords bailing out

It's not like a ticket to see the FA cup, it'll be harder to sell than they think....

[Malthus]

30 minutes ago, HousePriceMania said:

It's not like a ticket to see the FA cup, it'll be harder to sell than they think....

Easy to sell stuff , supply meets demand , the price is agreed 👍 

I think a lot of landlords will be on the wrong side of that equation 😊

[Innkeeper]

28 minutes ago, HousePriceMania said:

It's not like a ticket to see the FA cup, it'll be harder to sell than they think....

..........at the price they want/need to sell at.

Having said that, a distant family member has BTLs in a small block of flats in Teeside most of which have been trashed at least twice over by successive HB tenants.  Because of the location’s reputation, apparently they are now ‘unsellable’ with no one prepared to to take them on at any price...

 

[Malthus]

12 minutes ago, Innkeeper said:

..........at the price they want/need to sell at.

Having said that, a distant family member has BTLs in a small block of flats in Teeside most of which have been trashed at least twice over by successive HB tenants.  Because of the location’s reputation, apparently they are now ‘unsellable’ with no one prepared to to take them on at any price...

 

Are they hanging in waiting for a Local authority buy out for social housing or waiting for bankruptcy? 

[Innkeeper]

1 hour ago, Malthus said:

Are they hanging in waiting for a Local authority buy out for social housing or waiting for bankruptcy? 

Interesting you mention a local authority buy out as I was told that ‘even the council aren’t interested in buying them’.  I didn’t mention this because I thought the idea of the council buying them was just wishful thinking.  Bankruptcy probably unlikely as the flats are the shit end of a pretty big portfolio of much better properties bought a long time ago.  

[tank]

9 hours ago, JoeDavola said:

Funny how a secure roof over your head is now being normalized as being a "dream".

The "dream" of home ownership; almost as if it's an unreasonable aspiration.

Twenty years of striving for the right to own .... nope not own, for the right to sign up to likely another 30 years of debt after which you'll own your shitty UK newbuild.

Bloke will be 74 by that point. Life well lived - the 'dream' achieved.

No one forced them to go for an overpriced new build when a much cheaper - not to mention larger and better built - 60s or 70s semi would have available in or around Oldham. 

They've bought into the consumer lifestyle, social media likes etc  that fuels the modern UK economy. 

The alternative, of course, is for them to keep paying off some landlord's BTL mortgage for him. They get to 60 and are still fucking renting. I don't blame them for buying but a new build Barratt or Wimpey slave box is a poor value choice. The key to home ownership is to either buy outright for cash or get the mortgage paid off ASAP, not lumber yourself with debt until you're 70.

Edited May 20, 2023 by tank