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Property crash, just maybe it really is different this time (Part 3)


spunko

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spygirl
4 hours ago, spunko said:

That's one thing I can't quite figure out as I've never lived through a decent house market price decline.

Can you  actually go into negative equity from a remortgage? Has it ever happened on a large scale?

Easy.

Mr n Mrs 2 (or 5) fix.

Paying sub 2%

Reach end of fix.

SVR comes in - 8%.

Thats how banks have been operating - low initial APR then gouge on SVR at end of deal.

Oh fuck! Panic ring bank.

You could remortgage. We offer a 5y fix for 4%-5%.

OK, apply for that.

Banks surveyors comes round.

Sorry. LTV is over 80%

Remortgage is no go.

Back to SVR.

Remember non prime :London has been falling for years now.

A 5y fix on 35y wont pay off enough debt to get the LTV into easy cheap

 

 

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sancho panza

dont know whetehr to laugh or cry

read the headline then the second bit in bold.

and hes an accounts auditor ffs.xD

‘We bought our first home at 21 - and without help from the Bank of Mum and Dad' (msn.com)

‘We bought our first home at 21 - and without help from the Bank of Mum and Dad'

 

With the average age of a first-time buyer hovering at around 33, being able to afford a home in your early 20s – especially without help from family – is an impressive feat.

It doesn’t happen overnight but it is achievable – as Ellie Heritage, a biologist, and Tom Smith, an accounts auditor, can ably demonstrate.

After years of saving for a deposit, the pair – who are both just 21 – used shared ownership to buy a two-bedroom house at Places For People’s Maple Fields development in Bordon, near Alton in Hampshire.

 

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spygirl
1 minute ago, sancho panza said:

dont know whetehr to laugh or cry

read the headline then the second bit in bold.

and hes an accounts auditor ffs.xD

‘We bought our first home at 21 - and without help from the Bank of Mum and Dad' (msn.com)

‘We bought our first home at 21 - and without help from the Bank of Mum and Dad'

 

With the average age of a first-time buyer hovering at around 33, being able to afford a home in your early 20s – especially without help from family – is an impressive feat.

It doesn’t happen overnight but it is achievable – as Ellie Heritage, a biologist, and Tom Smith, an accounts auditor, can ably demonstrate.

After years of saving for a deposit, the pair – who are both just 21 – used shared ownership to buy a two-bedroom house at Places For People’s Maple Fields development in Bordon, near Alton in Hampshire.

 

Your prob dont know that area.

Jobs have gone.

Its a pain to drive anywhere due to traffic congestion.

Trains expensive.

Area filling up with migrants esp Nepalese.

And the area is boring n dull as fuck.

They are setting themselves up for miserable grind.

 

 

 

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sancho panza

dont remember seeing this.apologies for teh doulbe tap if its been psoted

reinforces the idea that marekts are dropping form the top.

reaffirms what @Bobthebuilder has been saying

B&M billionaire sells London mansion at 30pc loss (telegraph.co.uk)

image.png.cdffb1ff142ec9103cc8fd33c8514b27.pngThe billionaire owner of the B&M discount store chain has sold his London mansion at a 30pc loss as demand weakens in the capital’s luxury property market.

Bobby Arora, trading director of budget retailer, sold a townhouse in the exclusive Belgravia district for £23.5m in November, according to Land Registry data obtained by Bloomberg News.

A separate filing showed the property – nestled between Hyde Park and Buckingham Palace – was bought by Mr Arora for £34m about a decade ago.

It comes as property prices have fallen in London’s high-end postcodes amid higher interest rates and the prospect of higher taxes on rich residents.

A South African developer sold a housing site in Kensington for about £80m at the end of last year, Bloomberg added, amounting to a discount of roughly £30m from the price paid in 2017.

Edited by sancho panza
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Calcutta
1 hour ago, sancho panza said:

dont know whetehr to laugh or cry

read the headline then the second bit in bold.

and hes an accounts auditor ffs.xD

‘We bought our first home at 21 - and without help from the Bank of Mum and Dad' (msn.com)

‘We bought our first home at 21 - and without help from the Bank of Mum and Dad'

 

With the average age of a first-time buyer hovering at around 33, being able to afford a home in your early 20s – especially without help from family – is an impressive feat.

It doesn’t happen overnight but it is achievable – as Ellie Heritage, a biologist, and Tom Smith, an accounts auditor, can ably demonstrate.

After years of saving for a deposit, the pair – who are both just 21 – used shared ownership to buy a two-bedroom house at Places For People’s Maple Fields development in Bordon, near Alton in Hampshire.

 

I thought places for people just rented new builds to junkies.

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HousePriceMania
12 minutes ago, Bus Stop Boxer said:

I'm on the market currently. Been on for a month. 3 viewings in first 10 days. Its all stopped dead.

Agent on phone this arvo wants me to reduce. Ringing everyone. I think they are properly shitting themselves.

I think we are on the precipice of all that was predicted on TOS.

I told him i fully understand but it would appear that this is not a crap shoot table i need a seat at.

I had already resigned myself to not shifting it last week. He might as well de-list it for all i care.

Arrears highest for 7 years and counting.

You're not in Belfast are you.

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HousePriceMania

P.S. the agents only have themselves to blame.


They dont seem to understand people can afford the 2022 prices never mind the 2022 prices + 10%

They dont seem to understand they need volume of sales at lower prices, nothing else will save them now, they'll be out of business before affordability catches up in 10 years time.

Fuck every one of these commission based 2nd hand house sales men.

Edited by HousePriceMania
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22 minutes ago, Bus Stop Boxer said:

I'm on the market currently. Been on for a month. 3 viewings in first 10 days. Its all stopped dead.

Agent on phone this arvo wants me to reduce. Ringing everyone. I think they are properly shitting themselves.

I think we are on the precipice of all that was predicted on TOS.

I told him i fully understand but it would appear that this is not a crap shoot table i need a seat at.

I had already resigned myself to not shifting it last week. He might as well de-list it for all i care.

Arrears highest for 7 years and counting.

I'm going to list mine shortly but I'm waiting for the weather to pick up so that it looks nice with all the flowers and sunny weather in the photos. Could you do the same?

It makes such a difference IMHO, seeing houses for sale with grey weather and bare trees doesn't appeal to me at all.

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HousePriceMania
11 minutes ago, spunko said:

I'm going to list mine shortly but I'm waiting for the weather to pick up so that it looks nice with all the flowers and sunny weather in the photos. Could you do the same?

It makes such a difference IMHO, seeing houses for sale with grey weather and bare trees doesn't appeal to me at all.

Thought this was mumsnet for a minute there.

Spunko, have you been hacked ?

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2 hours ago, sancho panza said:

dont know whetehr to laugh or cry

read the headline then the second bit in bold.

and hes an accounts auditor ffs.xD

‘We bought our first home at 21 - and without help from the Bank of Mum and Dad' (msn.com)

‘We bought our first home at 21 - and without help from the Bank of Mum and Dad'

 

With the average age of a first-time buyer hovering at around 33, being able to afford a home in your early 20s – especially without help from family – is an impressive feat.

It doesn’t happen overnight but it is achievable – as Ellie Heritage, a biologist, and Tom Smith, an accounts auditor, can ably demonstrate.

After years of saving for a deposit, the pair – who are both just 21 – used shared ownership to buy a two-bedroom house at Places For People’s Maple Fields development in Bordon, near Alton in Hampshire.

 

We overpaid a developer for part of a house that nobody would have entertained buying at the same price if buying outright.

 

 

Edited by onlyme
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18 minutes ago, spunko said:

I'm going to list mine shortly but I'm waiting for the weather to pick up so that it looks nice with all the flowers and sunny weather in the photos. Could you do the same?

It makes such a difference IMHO, seeing houses for sale with grey weather and bare trees doesn't appeal to me at all.

Makes sense, first listing and first viewers are best chance to get the best price you are going to get regardless of the market.

We bought in dead of winter last time, the thinking being if we like it in bad weather then should only be better in good weather, beside the offer we were putting in was as low as it was as we klnew the chances of other buyers around at the time extremely slim and woulld reduce chances of beign given the runaround in regards other offers.

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leonardratso

get some of those Love, Life big letters, or maybe some gay porn pencil artwork to really get it selling, twigs in vases is so last decade.

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46 minutes ago, Bus Stop Boxer said:

I'm on the market currently. Been on for a month. 3 viewings in first 10 days. Its all stopped dead.

Agent on phone this arvo wants me to reduce. Ringing everyone. I think they are properly shitting themselves.

I think we are on the precipice of all that was predicted on TOS.

I told him i fully understand but it would appear that this is not a crap shoot table i need a seat at.

I had already resigned myself to not shifting it last week. He might as well de-list it for all i care.

Arrears highest for 7 years and counting.

Really do think they've shot the bolt too early in ramping the market up for Jan  and new year together with interest rate calls. Cleared the decks of a few more of the remaining cash / cash heavy buyers that have been outpriced the last couple of years, those who had cheaper fixes pushed into using those so as not to miss the boat. Serious chance they will lose all the momentum going into what should be peak selling season and good times of the agents in the spring.

 

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HousePriceMania
9 minutes ago, onlyme said:

Makes sense, first listing and first viewers are best chance to get the best price you are going to get regardless of the market.

We bought in dead of winter last time, the thinking being if we like it in bad weather then should only be better in good weather, beside the offer we were putting in was as low as it was as we klnew the chances of other buyers around at the time extremely slim and woulld reduce chances of beign given the runaround in regards other offers.

Spring, best time to snag an idiot buyer

Winter, best time to snag a desperate seller

 

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HousePriceMania
6 minutes ago, onlyme said:

Really do think they've shot the bolt too early in ramping the market up for Jan  and new year together with interest rate calls. Cleared the decks of a few more of the remaining cash / cash heavy buyers that have been outpriced the last couple of years, those who had cheaper fixes pushed into using those so as not to miss the boat. Serious chance they will lose all the momentum going into what should be peak selling season and good times of the agents in the spring.

 

Definite bounce from UKPL....keep an eye on it, will hopefully see it turn down quickly this year, I'm certainly seeing a shit load of reductions suddenly.

Image

 

but the number of listings shooting up again too.

 

Image

 

I'm seeing some crazy assed priced new listings while stuff from 12 months ago is relisted and/or sale is falling through or sat unsold.

It's going to be a painful year/lesson for a lot of people.

Edited by HousePriceMania
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21 minutes ago, onlyme said:

Makes sense, first listing and first viewers are best chance to get the best price you are going to get regardless of the market.

We bought in dead of winter last time, the thinking being if we like it in bad weather then should only be better in good weather, beside the offer we were putting in was as low as it was as we klnew the chances of other buyers around at the time extremely slim and woulld reduce chances of beign given the runaround in regards other offers.

Yes and I really do think that a lot of buyers are clued up now compared to a few years ago.  I see properties that were listed last year coming on the market again despite being "new" listings I know they're not because I recognise a certain part of the house. People who switch agents and relist it at the same price are my favourite, WTF are they thinking, it doesnt really matter on the EA at all nowadays, if it's on Rightmove that's all most people use and it will get seen.

Most people know EAs are scumbags. I think there's this perception among some old school boomers that agents need to ring round their client base and let them know about this "hot new property" in order to sell it. I get those emails occasionally, but they're all ones I've seen on Rightmove before and 90% of them are shite.

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6 minutes ago, spunko said:

Yes and I really do think that a lot of buyers are clued up now compared to a few years ago.  I see properties that were listed last year coming on the market again despite being "new" listings I know they're not because I recognise a certain part of the house. People who switch agents and relist it at the same price are my favourite, WTF are they thinking, it doesnt really matter on the EA at all nowadays, if it's on Rightmove that's all most people use and it will get seen.

Charlie has some good tips on picking the right agent / pricing, worth a listen if not already done so.

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spygirl
1 hour ago, Bus Stop Boxer said:

I'm on the market currently. Been on for a month. 3 viewings in first 10 days. Its all stopped dead.

Agent on phone this arvo wants me to reduce. Ringing everyone. I think they are properly shitting themselves.

I think we are on the precipice of all that was predicted on TOS.

I told him i fully understand but it would appear that this is not a crap shoot table i need a seat at.

I had already resigned myself to not shifting it last week. He might as well de-list it for all i care.

Arrears highest for 7 years and counting.

There has to come a point where the low sales materially impact on the housing.

By that, there hasn't been enough commission to go round EAs.

Bar a few owner owned EAs, where the sole agent is EA, admin n cleaner, I can't see enough revenue to operate an office.

 

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From twitter.

 

@StraightOuttaN7

London and London outskirts flat market is horrendous right now. Currently selling my parents BTL near Heathrow, and am selling at a £40k loss from purchase price in 2017, all because of the thousands of new purpose built flats in the area. It’s basically like Vauxhall.

...

No it’s in Staines, 2 bed 2 bath, freshly renovated, brand new heating system etc etc. Started at 325k, reduced to 315 and accepted 305. Probate property that we just want rid of. Wouldn’t have sold if it was actually mine as the rental is still good.

....

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40 minutes ago, spygirl said:

There has to come a point where the low sales materially impact on the housing.

By that, there hasn't been enough commission to go round EAs.

Bar a few owner owned EAs, where the sole agent is EA, admin n cleaner, I can't see enough revenue to operate an office.

 

Not just agents, everyone with whose work relies on or is affected by transaction volumes. Surveryors, conveyancers, trades, trade adn DIY outlets, removals companies, retail sales like home furnishings, monay more,  huge list.

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spygirl
1 minute ago, onlyme said:

From twitter.

 

@StraightOuttaN7

London and London outskirts flat market is horrendous right now. Currently selling my parents BTL near Heathrow, and am selling at a £40k loss from purchase price in 2017, all because of the thousands of new purpose built flats in the area. It’s basically like Vauxhall.

...

No it’s in Staines, 2 bed 2 bath, freshly renovated, brand new heating system etc etc. Started at 325k, reduced to 315 and accepted 305. Probate property that we just want rid of. Wouldn’t have sold if it was actually mine as the rental is still good.

....

40k potential  loss at the mo...

No sold yet.

Strangely all the crappy terraces the Southern idiots bought in boro for io baling tended to sell  at 40k-60k losses.

 

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spygirl
4 hours ago, spygirl said:

Back to my - IO mortgages are a big thing.

This one is nuts though.

Bought 87  so prime Endowment.

Yet hes had the fucker for 3 fuckign 6 years.

Why in fuck was the cretin not payng off the capital

And it must have been some fucking mortgage - 

In Mr Fleming’s case, his interest-only mortgage repayments nearly tripled after his mortgage was sold in 2015 – from £670 a month to as much as £1,760 some months. Life became centred around scraping enough money together to meet his monthly payments.

Thats after 20 years FFS. 

IO of 670 most be some  fuckign huge mortgage - several 100k. On a house bought in 87

OK, ast both the journo n the mortgage cretin insult my intelligence, here we go.

 

Yorkshireman Chris Fleming had been paying the mortgage on his family home since 1987. Despite decades of repayments, his house was repossessed last year and sold at a £100,000 discount by his lender.

The father-of-three is just one of 200,000 borrowers who have been stuck on interest-only mortgages that were sold off by the Government’s state bank UK Asset Resolution (UKAR) after the financial crash.

The companies servicing the loans have charged customers high standard variable rates ever since – for some, their loan rates have soared to 10pc following 14 successive Bank Rate rises.

MPs have renewed calls for the Government to compensate these borrowers – many of whom are now receiving repossession orders. Some can’t even sell, because if they do they will fall into negative equity.

Scottish National Party MP for West Dunbartonshire Martin Docherty will present a Ten Minute Rule Bill in the Commons calling for those who have been overcharged interest to be reimbursed.

The bill is backed by a cross-party group of 10 MPs, which also includes Conservative MP Duncan Baker, Labour MP John McDonnell, and Green Party MP Caroline Lucas.

Mr Docherty told the Telegraph: “It’s a scandal that the Chancellor’s spring Budget has yet again ignored the plight of tens of thousands of families unfairly trapped on crippling mortgage rates.

“As the Government sits on its hands having made billions from the sale of closed mortgage books, hundreds of thousands of mortgage prisoners face losing their homes through no fault of their own.

“The bill I’m introducing to parliament aims to finally end the unfair mortgage prisoner cycle and address the failures of successive UK governments. I am determined to stand up for my constituents and all those impacted by this appalling 16-year financial injustice.”

In Mr Fleming’s case, his interest-only mortgage repayments nearly tripled after his mortgage was sold in 2015 – from £670 a month to as much as £1,760 some months. Life became centred around scraping enough money together to meet his monthly payments.

One Friday in the summer of 2019, he left his home with the sole purpose of ending his life. He had planned to drive his car – with himself in it – off the top of a cliff and into the freezing sea.

“I just wanted to put an end to it all. I thought, ‘Best if I weren’t here’. I just wanted to be free of the pain and the shame. We were trapped with whatever they wanted us to pay. I was constantly on the phone trying to get a better deal.”

In the end, Mr Fleming drove just short of the cliff-edge. The grandfather of two, now 68, decided to battle on.

They took my house and £60k in fees’

After the sale of his mortgage to private equity firm Cerberus in 2015, Mr Fleming’s loan began to be serviced by its subsidiary Landmark.

His mortgage term ended in 2022. Landmark extended it for one more year, but when this ended there was still a £200,000 loan against his home in Bilton, a village in East Yorkshire.

Mr Fleming says if he had been moved to a capital repayment mortgage after this loan was sold, he would have paid £120,000 less in interest, cleared the debts and kept his home.

In June 2023, Mr Fleming’s family home of 36 years was repossessed by bailiffs. “My three children are utterly traumatised and still suffering from PTSD after that day.”

Landmark went on to sell their home for £310,000, more than £100,000 less than a valuation Mr Fleming had got on the house just three years prior. The company then subtracted £60,000 in legal and bailiff fees, leaving Mr Fleming with just a £50,000 profit.

In June 2023, Mr Fleming's family home of 36 years was repossessed by bailiffs CREDIT: Asadour Guzelian

He and his family are now renting a bungalow, and all he and his wife have to rely on is the state pension. At his age, he can no longer fund a new mortgage and did not have enough equity in the house to take out equity release.

A spokesman for Landmark said proceeds from the sale “would have been significantly greater” had Mr Fleming “not raised a number of objections, which the courts determined to be without foundation, resulting in significant legal costs”. 

They added: “These situations are deeply unfortunate but very rare, as the overwhelming majority of customers in difficulty work with us to find mutually agreeable solutions.”

Easy find.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/7bVcNaaHfCUr0PNHUdyBZj1SEtc/appointments

Company status

Active

Correspondence address

54 Main Road, Bilton, East Yorkshire, United Kingdom, HU11 4AR

Next door -

52 Main Road, Hull, HU11 4AR

Transaction history

A 2014-09-22 £218,000
A 2008-04-11 £212,500

https://houseprices.io/?q=Main+road%2C+bilt

In 2000 - never mind 1987 - places near his were going for 50k-60k

https://houseprices.io/?q=Main+road%2c+bilt&p=10

Address: 55 Main Road, Bilton, Hull, HU11 4AP
Type: Semi-detached
Tenure: Freehold
New build: No
Estimated value: £281,000
Links: Map icon Price map Wikipedia icon (Hull) Wikipedia icon (Bilton)
Transaction type: Standard price paid transaction

Registered sales:

Date Sold Price Paid Nominal change Real change
29 Oct 2002 £90,000 24.1% 14.7%
25 Sep 1998 £72,500 n/a n/a
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One percent
2 minutes ago, spygirl said:

OK, ast both the journo n the mortgage cretin insult my intelligence, here we go.

 

Yorkshireman Chris Fleming had been paying the mortgage on his family home since 1987. Despite decades of repayments, his house was repossessed last year and sold at a £100,000 discount by his lender.

The father-of-three is just one of 200,000 borrowers who have been stuck on interest-only mortgages that were sold off by the Government’s state bank UK Asset Resolution (UKAR) after the financial crash.

The companies servicing the loans have charged customers high standard variable rates ever since – for some, their loan rates have soared to 10pc following 14 successive Bank Rate rises.

MPs have renewed calls for the Government to compensate these borrowers – many of whom are now receiving repossession orders. Some can’t even sell, because if they do they will fall into negative equity.

Scottish National Party MP for West Dunbartonshire Martin Docherty will present a Ten Minute Rule Bill in the Commons calling for those who have been overcharged interest to be reimbursed.

The bill is backed by a cross-party group of 10 MPs, which also includes Conservative MP Duncan Baker, Labour MP John McDonnell, and Green Party MP Caroline Lucas.

Mr Docherty told the Telegraph: “It’s a scandal that the Chancellor’s spring Budget has yet again ignored the plight of tens of thousands of families unfairly trapped on crippling mortgage rates.

“As the Government sits on its hands having made billions from the sale of closed mortgage books, hundreds of thousands of mortgage prisoners face losing their homes through no fault of their own.

“The bill I’m introducing to parliament aims to finally end the unfair mortgage prisoner cycle and address the failures of successive UK governments. I am determined to stand up for my constituents and all those impacted by this appalling 16-year financial injustice.”

In Mr Fleming’s case, his interest-only mortgage repayments nearly tripled after his mortgage was sold in 2015 – from £670 a month to as much as £1,760 some months. Life became centred around scraping enough money together to meet his monthly payments.

One Friday in the summer of 2019, he left his home with the sole purpose of ending his life. He had planned to drive his car – with himself in it – off the top of a cliff and into the freezing sea.

“I just wanted to put an end to it all. I thought, ‘Best if I weren’t here’. I just wanted to be free of the pain and the shame. We were trapped with whatever they wanted us to pay. I was constantly on the phone trying to get a better deal.”

In the end, Mr Fleming drove just short of the cliff-edge. The grandfather of two, now 68, decided to battle on.

They took my house and £60k in fees’

After the sale of his mortgage to private equity firm Cerberus in 2015, Mr Fleming’s loan began to be serviced by its subsidiary Landmark.

His mortgage term ended in 2022. Landmark extended it for one more year, but when this ended there was still a £200,000 loan against his home in Bilton, a village in East Yorkshire.

Mr Fleming says if he had been moved to a capital repayment mortgage after this loan was sold, he would have paid £120,000 less in interest, cleared the debts and kept his home.

In June 2023, Mr Fleming’s family home of 36 years was repossessed by bailiffs. “My three children are utterly traumatised and still suffering from PTSD after that day.”

Landmark went on to sell their home for £310,000, more than £100,000 less than a valuation Mr Fleming had got on the house just three years prior. The company then subtracted £60,000 in legal and bailiff fees, leaving Mr Fleming with just a £50,000 profit.

In June 2023, Mr Fleming's family home of 36 years was repossessed by bailiffs CREDIT: Asadour Guzelian

He and his family are now renting a bungalow, and all he and his wife have to rely on is the state pension. At his age, he can no longer fund a new mortgage and did not have enough equity in the house to take out equity release.

A spokesman for Landmark said proceeds from the sale “would have been significantly greater” had Mr Fleming “not raised a number of objections, which the courts determined to be without foundation, resulting in significant legal costs”. 

They added: “These situations are deeply unfortunate but very rare, as the overwhelming majority of customers in difficulty work with us to find mutually agreeable solutions.”

Easy find.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/7bVcNaaHfCUr0PNHUdyBZj1SEtc/appointments

Company status

Active

Correspondence address

54 Main Road, Bilton, East Yorkshire, United Kingdom, HU11 4AR

Next door -

52 Main Road, Hull, HU11 4AR

Transaction history

A 2014-09-22 £218,000
A 2008-04-11 £212,500

https://houseprices.io/?q=Main+road%2C+bilt

In 2000 - never mind 1987 - places near his were going for 50k-60k

https://houseprices.io/?q=Main+road%2c+bilt&p=10

Address: 55 Main Road, Bilton, Hull, HU11 4AP
Type: Semi-detached
Tenure: Freehold
New build: No
Estimated value: £281,000
Links: Map icon Price map Wikipedia icon (Hull) Wikipedia icon (Bilton)
Transaction type: Standard price paid transaction

Registered sales:

Date Sold Price Paid Nominal change Real change
29 Oct 2002 £90,000 24.1% 14.7%
25 Sep 1998 £72,500 n/a n/a

TL/DR. What’s his actual gripe?   Seems to have been paying the mortgage for years. Why is he in problems now?  

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spygirl
3 minutes ago, One percent said:

TL/DR. What’s his actual gripe?   Seems to have been paying the mortgage for years. Why is he in problems now?  

Wants free stuff.

The wresting shoukd have Bern- how much did you pay for your houses?

Why have you a 200k and no capital paid off.

400/m capital repayment over 35y is 180k

There will be no change to banks with IO mortgages.

 

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