Death Of London

[Bien Pensant]

9 hours ago, Errol said:

Apparently Bojo thinks the reason people are not going to work in London is because of Covid.

No. It's because they don't want to pay £4000 for a train ticket or spend the day in a laughable office when they can work just as well (or more efficiently) at home and enjoy a massively higher quality of life.

Covid has nothing to do with it. Pandora's box has been opened. There is no going back to how it was - nobody will ever be doing 5 days a week in the office again.

Plus, with their 'Covid' dance, the elite inadvertently gave huge numbers of people a real break from the hamster-wheel for the first time in their lives. This was something which they found to be agreeable in itself and which also gave them time to think.

My guess is that they thought the following: 'The state is clearly collapsing so there's no point slaving away trying to build up assets because they'll just be rendered worthless in the melee. Also, having free time and not being constantly shattered is just much nicer than having baubles so maybe I'll work less and reign in my lifestyle accordingly'.

The thing is that I suspect the most thoughtful and intelligent were likely to be most persuaded by the above logic and so more likely to downshift. This has an 'Atlas Shrugged' multiplier effect because it leaves all the muggles, who can't think of anything more interesting to do with their lives than to constantly engage in repetitive tasks, mainly to keep the state in the style to which it has become accustomed, without anyone to create or coordinate jobs for them.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Bien Pensant

[Inigo]

I was speaking to our accountant recently and they are losing staff to London firms.  Still being paid a London wage, but working from home.  They can't compete with that.

He agrees that working from home isn't sustainable in the long term (underlings learn from eavesdropping on bosses' conversations, quick responses rather than planned weeks in advance, etc), but that most workers will always choose it, if available.

[Austin Allegro]

On 12/02/2022 at 23:27, ninjaborrower said:

I think the back to nature thing isnt that new really, people like john seymour where pushing it in the seventies

 Even the arts and crafts movement in the late victorian, edwardian period, its something that keeps being brought up, even more so now with the internet

 Technology has made it so much more appealing now to the middleclass dreamer i feel

The back to nature stuff has its roots in the Romantic movement of the late eighteenth century. There were utopianist agrarian communes as early as the 1840s in the USA. Thoreau's famous back-to-the-land book Walden came out of this.

However you're right it didn't really enter the mass market until the 1970s. Part of the appeal of the apocalyptic TV series Survivors was linked to this - there was even an episode where they talked about home-made wine and it got the nickname 'The Good Life with Guns'.

[Bien Pensant]

13 hours ago, Austin Allegro said:

However you're right it didn't really enter the mass market until the 1970s. Part of the appeal of the apocalyptic TV series Survivors was linked to this - there was even an episode where they talked about home-made wine and it got the nickname 'The Good Life with Guns'.

Which all came from a feeling of insecurity due to the Oil Crisis, of course.

People don't really think about it in these terms any more but, back in the Nineteenth Century, they used to talk about the Industrial Revolution in terms of the extra 'work' that machines were doing in the physical sense of that word, i.e. how many men you would need to simply be able to exert the equivalent amount of energy.

Of course, that energy had to come from somewhere so the real story of the industrial age is the tapping of sunlight stored over the eons in fossil fuels, as opposed to that being won daily via sunlight and turned into food for people and beasts of burden.

You could say that the Oil Crisis woke people up to the fact that they were living out of capital, rather than on income, with respect to energy. Something which is no less true but has largely been put out of mind today.

[ninjaborrower]

On 22/02/2022 at 02:01, Bien Pensant said:

Which all came from a feeling of insecurity due to the Oil Crisis, of course.

People don't really think about it in these terms any more but, back in the Nineteenth Century, they used to talk about the Industrial Revolution in terms of the extra 'work' that machines were doing in the physical sense of that word, i.e. how many men you would need to simply be able to exert the equivalent amount of energy.

Of course, that energy had to come from somewhere so the real story of the industrial age is the tapping of sunlight stored over the eons in fossil fuels, as opposed to that being won daily via sunlight and turned into food for people and beasts of burden.

You could say that the Oil Crisis woke people up to the fact that they were living out of capital, rather than on income, with respect to energy. Something which is no less true but has largely been put out of mind today.

I think the appeal today is down to the information age we are living in now, theres to much of it

 Humans are getting bombarded with it to the point of insanity, people just want to be left alone and get away from it

 The was a time when people didnt even have a phone in the house, now people carry around a device which demands constant interaction 

[Van Lady]

15 minutes ago, ninjaborrower said:

I think the appeal today is down to the information age we are living in now, theres to much of it

 Humans are getting bombarded with it to the point of insanity, people just want to be left alone and get away from it

 The was a time when people didnt even have a phone in the house, now people carry around a device which demands constant interaction 

Yes I agree with your post.

The technological changes to personal everyday lives in a couple of decades are unprecedented.

My opinion is that human brains evolve very slowly and they are having difficulty coping with the unprecedented constant information bombardment. 

[Chewing Grass]

1 minute ago, Van Lady said:

My opinion is that human brains evolve very slowly and they are having difficulty coping with the unprecedented constant information bombardment. 

Human Brains don't Evolve they get Reprogrammed, 'give me a child the the age of 2' and all that.

[Van Lady]

10 minutes ago, Chewing Grass said:

Human Brains don't Evolve they get Reprogrammed, 'give me a child the the age of 2' and all that.

Yes I agree with that because social circumstances affect the brain but from a biological perspective I think human brains do evolve.

Humanity still have somewhat Stone Age brains in comparison with the unprecedented technological/social changes over the past couple of decades.

Personally I find life much more stressful than 20/30 years ago and try to avoid constant bombardment by walking in the countryside a lot and not having an internet connected phone. Antidepressant prescriptions have been increasing substantially in the uk. 

[Chewing Grass]

11 minutes ago, Van Lady said:

Humanity still have somewhat Stone Age brains in comparison with the unprecedented technological/social changes over the past couple of decades.

Personally I find life much more stressful than 20/30 years ago and try to avoid constant bombardment by walking in the countryside a lot and not having an internet connected phone. Antidepressant prescriptions have been increasing substantially in the uk. 

Try watching this and remember this music was written and performed 500 years ago, our Brains are still 99% the same its just our surroundings and birth technology has.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Chewing Grass

[Van Lady]

6 minutes ago, Chewing Grass said:

Try watching this and remember this music was written and performed 500 years ago, our Brains are still 99% the same its just our surroundings and birth technology has.

The evolution of the human body/brain is extremely slow so you may well be right that they are 99% the same in comparison to two or three hundred years ago.

My point is because human biological evolution is slow in comparison with the unprecedented technological/social changes over the past couple of decades is that it is causing problems for many. Too much constant bombardment of confusing info causing stress for many. 
 

[eight]

12 hours ago, ninjaborrower said:

I think the appeal today is down to the information age we are living in now, theres to much of it

 Humans are getting bombarded with it to the point of insanity, people just want to be left alone and get away from it

 The was a time when people didnt even have a phone in the house, now people carry around a device which demands constant interaction 

There's some crazy stat bandied about that a daily newspaper contains more words than the average pleb would have read in their entire lives a surprisingly short time ago.

[JoeDavola]

On 20/02/2022 at 22:26, Bien Pensant said:

having free time and not being constantly shattered is just much nicer than having baubles so maybe I'll work less and reign in my lifestyle accordingly'.

That’s pretty much the approach to life I took pre-covid and covid just made it even clearer.

Although it never felt like reigning in - just not spending money on stupid shit.

Edited February 28, 2022 by JoeDavola

[Austin Allegro]

On 22/02/2022 at 02:01, Bien Pensant said:

Which all came from a feeling of insecurity due to the Oil Crisis, of course.

People don't really think about it in these terms any more but, back in the Nineteenth Century, they used to talk about the Industrial Revolution in terms of the extra 'work' that machines were doing in the physical sense of that word, i.e. how many men you would need to simply be able to exert the equivalent amount of energy.

Of course, that energy had to come from somewhere so the real story of the industrial age is the tapping of sunlight stored over the eons in fossil fuels, as opposed to that being won daily via sunlight and turned into food for people and beasts of burden.

You could say that the Oil Crisis woke people up to the fact that they were living out of capital, rather than on income, with respect to energy. Something which is no less true but has largely been put out of mind today.

Fear of nuclear war came into it as well. After the late 1960s the idea that a limited nuclear strike could be dealt with - just about - with WW2 style civil defence, auxiliary fire brigades etc was dropped and popular consciousness moved to the 'we'll all go together when we go' mindset. A generation brought up during the Blitz coming of age probably had something to do with it as well.

[Bien Pensant]

10 hours ago, Austin Allegro said:

Fear of nuclear war came into it as well. After the late 1960s the idea that a limited nuclear strike could be dealt with - just about - with WW2 style civil defence, auxiliary fire brigades etc was dropped and popular consciousness moved to the 'we'll all go together when we go' mindset. A generation brought up during the Blitz coming of age probably had something to do with it as well.

Indeed, early fission bombs were relatively survivable. For one thing there weren't many of them - the US estimated that it would need 200 Hiroshima-size bombs to be able to devastate the USSR, whereas by December 1946 they only actually had 13 - so you were unlikely to get plastered with them. Also, a lot of people in Japan died because their wood and paper houses collapsed on them and caught fire, whereas people in concrete buildings, just hundreds of yards from Ground Zero, not only survived but were still alive only a few years ago (and may be now for all I know).

However, of course, once thermonuclear weapons turned up there was no point even contemplating civil defence.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Bien Pensant

[Austin Allegro]

On 12/02/2022 at 23:04, ninjaborrower said:

Never heard of the electronic cottage,

 

I think it's another name for Grindr.

[spygirl]

Pulling out the stops to welcome the workers back into London - 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60583831

[spygirl]

The Office Group agrees £1.5bn merger

Discounted valuations post-pandemic help spur consolidation as workers return

https://www.ft.com/content/3b53c92b-206a-4abc-84c9-50db2257493c

blah blah blah

But average office occupancy rates remain far below pre-pandemic levels. In the week ending March 4, average occupancy in the UK was just 21 per cent — though that was likely to have been affected by Tube strikes in London — according to Remit Consulting.

 

[dnb24]

 

Interesting afternoon in Tottenham today

Edited April 14, 2022 by dnb24

[spygirl]

Office return stalls as UK staff cling to flexible working

Workplace occupancy levels hit plateau after strong initial recovery following lifting of Covid restrictions

https://www.ft.com/content/5ed49b8a-6c69-418c-9a26-7f43a99b1d1f

Office-based businesses are keen to have workers back to help with training and staff development as well as aiding team bonding, as part of a flexible model that allows some days working from home.

The heads of two London-based law firms said they were struggling to get associates and younger members of staff back to the office, even with policies in place asking them to come in on certain days.

These are the groups that I was assured were most keen to work in an office.

The reality is that the commute n travel takes too much time and money out of their pocket.

They are also the most likely group to jump ship if pushed.

Can post the chart - new graphics.

London offices are still 50% empty compared to Jan 2020.

 

 

[onlyme]

16 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Office return stalls as UK staff cling to flexible working

Workplace occupancy levels hit plateau after strong initial recovery following lifting of Covid restrictions

https://www.ft.com/content/5ed49b8a-6c69-418c-9a26-7f43a99b1d1f

Office-based businesses are keen to have workers back to help with training and staff development as well as aiding team bonding, as part of a flexible model that allows some days working from home.

The heads of two London-based law firms said they were struggling to get associates and younger members of staff back to the office, even with policies in place asking them to come in on certain days.

These are the groups that I was assured were most keen to work in an office.

The reality is that the commute n travel takes too much time and money out of their pocket.

They are also the most likely group to jump ship if pushed.

Can post the chart - new graphics.

London offices are still 50% empty compared to Jan 2020.

 

 

Without a hefty pay rise (to match just inflation of the last 6 months) daughter is dropping hints that living in London to work in the office is not going to be sustainable. This is under a year from starting, initially she was just about OK on a tight budge, now not, the student loan shit is just the icing on the cake and she can't even factor that in. Something is happening to the food pricing (supermarket)  in London that seems rather more extreme than in the sticks, Khan has loaded up on emission zone crap and I wonder if just distribution costs in London are primary driver on top of everything else.

[spygirl]

23 minutes ago, onlyme said:

Without a hefty pay rise (to match just inflation of the last 6 months) daughter is dropping hints that living in London to work in the office is not going to be sustainable. This is under a year from starting, initially she was just about OK on a tight budge, now not, the student loan shit is just the icing on the cake and she can't even factor that in. Something is happening to the food pricing (supermarket)  in London that seems rather more extreme than in the sticks, Khan has loaded up on emission zone crap and I wonder if just distribution costs in London are primary driver on top of everything else.

Ah the thrill of the first job in London after graduation!

Oh the theatre! The eateries!!!!!! (The members of the opposite sex ...)

And all those ethnic people, giving a diverse feel, so much better than dull whitetown here people worked all the time...

The excitement as they head off for this new adventure.

How much tax is taking!!!!

You want 1200/m for me to have a attic room in place thats almost in Essex!!!!!

How the fuck can those Somalis and Iranins and blacks afford to live in West London?

Oh Im paying for it.

Only topped when they pop a kid and have a tour of local schools ....

 

 

[sarahbell]

We should abandon London. Leave it to the wolves.

[Bobthebuilder]

6 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

We should abandon London. Leave it to the wolves.

I sometimes wonder what London you are all talking about. Sitting in front of my computer right now with a glass of ale, looking out over the leaves coming out on the trees. Was talking to neighbours in the street earlier and had my milk, eggs and butter delivered by the milk man this morning.

 

[eight]

2 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

I sometimes wonder what London you are all talking about. Sitting in front of my computer right now with a glass of ale, looking out over the leaves coming out on the trees. Was talking to neighbours in the street earlier and had my milk, eggs and butter delivered by the milk man this morning.

 

You think this forum might be detached from reality? Say it isn't so!

[One percent]

Daughters are looking for a new rental property in londonistan. Prices have suddenly gone mental and there is nothing decent to be had.