Death Of London

[spygirl]

On 14/05/2021 at 13:24, spygirl said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9575635/More-80-40s-England-one-Covid-vaccine-dose.html

Almost like the population of London is totally different from the rest of the UK -selfish, backwards, not really british....

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9626619/Horrifying-moment-woman-driver-kicks-punches-mum-three-ferocious-assault.html

[Upsettah]

3 hours ago, spygirl said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9626619/Horrifying-moment-woman-driver-kicks-punches-mum-three-ferocious-assault.html

She was just "potting up" her area, some people should mind their own damn business.

[spygirl]

https://www.ft.com/content/27a1b02c-3188-45ba-b903-923b5f563df2

Ministers are close to striking a £1bn rescue deal for Transport for London — its fourth in a year — under which it will have to accept a further, immediate budget cut and identify new money-raising schemes.

 

comments -

 

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Meanwhile, ministers are ordering TfL to implement changes to its pension scheme, but this could prompt industrial action.

Now is the time to do it - it’s not like anyone WFH is going to notice. In fact the unions will have much less leverage in the future because a three day strike will just mean an extra day (or maybe two) WFH.

[spygirl]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000wl4d

[Shamus]

1 hour ago, spygirl said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000wl4d

Chap at the end thinks we will be back to normal after the pandemic and cities will revert back to normal. As earlier he said dynamics of the office fuels productivity as its currently down due to WFH. 

[Frank Hovis]

31 minutes ago, Shamus said:

Chap at the end thinks we will be back to normal after the pandemic and cities will revert back to normal. As earlier he said dynamics of the office fuels productivity as its currently down due to WFH. 

 

I entirely agree with him.

Wfh suits the employee rather than the employer and it's wishful thinking that it will be allowed to continue as is.

Where employers do allow some wfh it's generally in order to retain staff by keeping them happy rather than for any benefit for the company.

Hopefully this being the case we will then see a vast amounts of recently purchased homes in Cornwall dumped back onto the market and prices will plummet.

 

£430k for a house too narrow in which to lie down across the floor I ask you!

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/padstow-home-narrower-london-bus-5477247

[Don Coglione]

1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

I entirely agree with him.

Wfh suits the employee rather than the employer and it's wishful thinking that it will be allowed to continue as is.

Where employers do allow some wfh it's generally in order to retain staff by keeping them happy rather than for any benefit for the company.

Hopefully this being the case we will then see a vast amounts of recently purchased homes in Cornwall dumped back onto the market and prices will plummet.

 

£430k for a house too narrow in which to lie down across the floor I ask you!

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/padstow-home-narrower-london-bus-5477247

At least one major bank does not agree with him.

Productivity up massively, plans to allow leases to expire, saving massively on commercial real estate.

I have no idea how that productivity is measured.

[Frank Hovis]

6 minutes ago, Don Coglione said:

At least one major bank does not agree with him.

Productivity up massively, plans to allow leases to expire, saving massively on commercial real estate.

I have no idea how that productivity is measured.

They're wrong IMO.

Businesses advance through the interaction of talented people which doesn't happen when they're all sat in their individual homes.

Some businesses possibly can operate in a state of stasis - public bodies that are not open to competition for example - but a bank is certainly not one of them.

I don't hold many individual company shares but if I did hold shares in whatever bank that is then I would be selling them.

[Yadda yadda yadda]

8 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

They're wrong IMO.

Businesses advance through the interaction of talented people which doesn't happen when they're all sat in their individual homes.

Some businesses possibly can operate in a state of stasis - public bodies that are not open to competition for example - but a bank is certainly not one of them.

I don't hold many individual company shares but if I did hold shares in whatever bank that is then I would be selling them.

The real problem will be recruitment and training. WFH will work for a while but productivity will progressively decline. You will also see more people want to do part time hours and/or retire early because they need less income. Retention of knowledge could also be a problem. Trying to get everyone back in the office could be a problem and that could lead to loss of staff also.

The positive of this could be to open up career progression for younger workers as people retire early.

Of course there are some industries where this may not apply.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Yadda yadda yadda

[Don Coglione]

6 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

They're wrong IMO.

Businesses advance through the interaction of talented people which doesn't happen when they're all sat in their individual homes.

Some businesses possibly can operate in a state of stasis - public bodies that are not open to competition for example - but a bank is certainly not one of them.

I don't hold many individual company shares but if I did hold shares in whatever bank that is then I would be selling them.

I completely agree with you.

I suspect the "massive gains in productivity" are just a smoke-screen to justify a slashing of the real estate budget. Someone is thinking short-term and the business will, in time, suffer.

[Yadda yadda yadda]

1 minute ago, Don Coglione said:

I completely agree with you.

I suspect the "massive gains in productivity" are just a smoke-screen to justify a slashing of the real estate budget. Someone is thinking short-term and the business will, in time, suffer.

Short term incentives based on profit. People will smash targets. I was told £25k per head for a central London desk all in.

[Frank Hovis]

2 minutes ago, Yadda yadda yadda said:

WFH will work for a while but will productivity will progressively decline. You will also see more people want to do part time hours and/or retire early because they need less income.

 

I've flagged up on the Cornish property thread that I think that Lockdown / WFH has been the big driver of prices as people have had the chance to re-evaluate their lives and decided that they want to live in a nice house by the sea rather than a flat or terrace in a city and either no longer need to work so retire early or think that they can continue to wfh until they do retire (early).

I have been registered with a local financial recruitment agent for years and would get maybe an email of a vacancy once every couple of months for senior finance jobs.  This year it's been typically one a week; people across the board have looked at thier lives and finances and decided it's time to go.

[Chewing Grass]

I'm totally fucked off with offices and the a-holes that infest the management of them but I'm knocking on the door of 60 and have had more than my fill so desperately want out.

[Yadda yadda yadda]

5 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

I've flagged up on the Cornish property thread that I think that Lockdown / WFH has been the big driver of prices as people have had the chance to re-evaluate their lives and decided that they want to live in a nice house by the sea rather than a flat or terrace in a city and either no longer need to work so retire early or think that they can continue to wfh until they do retire (early).

I have been registered with a local financial recruitment agent for years and would get maybe an email of a vacancy once every couple of months for senior finance jobs.  This year it's been typically one a week; people across the board have looked at thier lives and finances and decided it's time to go.

Yes, if someone is late fifties/early sixties and owns a house in London or the home counties with little or no outstanding mortgage it is a big opportunity. Cash out and even paying over the odds they can put a lot in the bank. Either retire now or continue only whilst they can WFH. They won't go back. I suppose a few might miss it but most will be glad to be out.

[spygirl]

On 27/04/2021 at 11:21, Frank Hovis said:

I used to live there and that was part of the appeal.  You pretty much had it to yourself on summer evenings and weekends.

Wandering around the old buildings, churches and churchyards of a Sunday was akin to having your own personal museum of architecture.  There was simply no traffic in a Sunday and barely any on a Saturday.

Theres a good feature in this WEs FT.

Inside London’s Docklands: 40 years of ambition, politics and financial wrangling

https://www.ft.com/content/aa485ae2-c48d-47ee-8c9c-a21b697ef5eb

Worth maturing the subs free or reading it in the pub.

Interesting, as Docklands got going on big bang, with the demand for people and office space.

Its fizzling out as the finance has shrunk and been automated.

Id bet Covid is going mark the end of London growth n money n properdee, in the same way but bang in 86 marked the start.

Article starts with -

In 1981, in the grip of what in retrospect I realise must have been a premature midlife crisis, I sold my three-bedroom south London semi for £65,000 and moved into a loft in Wapping. I left my Habitat kitchen and the stained-glass window depicting a galleon over the front door behind and moved into Metropolitan Wharf, a 19th-century Thames-side warehouse with 2,000 square feet of agoraphobia-inducing, wide-open raw space. It was big enough for an indoor bike ride.

I seriously think hes got the date andor the money wrong. I was seeing 3br semis in South London not far off that in 1995.

That's not prosperity, that's muzzers.

 

Wait till the subs are pulled and automation continues.

 

 

[spygirl]

Top rated comments, which reflect a more practical up to date view

It is really evident that there was no plan for the area. What London is crying out for are residential homes with gardens. What it got was towers for Chinese investors. The same thing happening again at Battersea power station. Terrible government mismanagement.

 

Come to the Netherlands to see planning in action:

 

- cycle paths everywhere,

- sufficient parking for cars in all newly built districts

- trees lining the streets in proper neighbourhoods

- a mix of high-end and genuinely affordable social housing

- no extortionate leasholds (rather leaseholds owned by the city of Amsterdam that rise in line with land value, fund future development and can be bought out for reasonable sums by residents)

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I completely agree. This development has done nothing for the 20,00 on the Tower Hamlets waiting list.  £840,000 for a one bedroom flat is a sick joke. The child poverty rate is the highest of all London boroughs and multi generational families trapped in flats that are way too small. All this has had devastating consequences for the impact of Covid 19.  Money and state support for the rich and powerful.......

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reply In reply to Sheila

Actually that’s got far more to do with mass immigration and huge Bangladeshi families in that region. Attainment is low because many Bangladeshi children are kept away from school. So a local head told me a few years ago.

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Actually that’s got far more to do with mass immigration and huge Bangladeshi families in that region. 

£840,000 for a 1 bed flat in East London is the fault of immigrant families from Bangladesh?

 

many Bangladeshi children are kept away from school

To my knowledge cases such as these are followed up and parents prosecuted. Are you sure this is widespread. 

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No greenbelt, however? It’s easy to build spacious when you are alowed to redevelop ex-agricultural land.

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If you look at the size of the area in question, and of that in Battersea, there was the possibility to build thousands of terraced homes each with a small garden. I live in a two bed terrace in Amsterdam  - one of 13 on our square, total size of the plot for all the houses, gardens and a large central square is half an acre! But it doesn't feel high density and we all get lots of light and homes that feel big.

 

So

- 1000 proper houses could have been built on the Battersea redevelopment  (42 acres)

- 149,500 proper houses could have been built on the 9 square miles (5,751 acres) of land in the docklands

 

And this would have included 30% as public space (squares and parkland)

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reply In reply to Times Tide Will Smother You

The Netherlands is full of apartments. I would have said the things that characterise the country is the high density of roads and the fact that loads of buildings are between 4 and 12 storeys. The result is they all have parking and don't live in rabbit hutches, but the place is generally less walkable (excluding the centre of Amsterdam).

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reply In reply to Times Tide Will Smother You

I do agree we need a lot more prescriptive planning (at medium density levels) like in the Netherlands, but I differ in the view that these should be delivered in Prime Central London locations. How do your proposed number of units compare with what was delivered?

 

I think we should do exactly what you propose, but on Greenbelt land alongside existing rail lines - e.g. Crossrail western route is ripe for densification. Obviously not on valuable ecological land - but London’s outskirts are full of golf courses & intensely farmed agricultural land with dubious ecological credentials - far better served by (a smaller area of) parks in lieu of monoculture fields.

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I think apartments are generally better. Build medium density, 5 floors high, 130sqm apartments each with a balcony and shared garden. Medium density means more walkable services and no need for a car (or at least no need for 2). 

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reply In reply to Times Tide Will Smother You

What London is crying out for are residential homes with gardens

Giving each household a small private garden is a horrible waste of land and propagates urban sprawl. Medium density apartment blocks with a variety of accommodations from studios to duplexes and a large communal garden are a much cleverer use of space. The average Brit is not particularly good at gardening.

I am fortunate to live in the Edinburgh New Town and it really is a masterpiece of urban planning. The different blocks of housing fall into the catchment of a communal garden. 

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I live here now. I actually like the area itself physically, and the docklands sailing centre is a God send. Proximity to work is convenient, the shops are likewise convenient and you can see the estate does its best to encourage people in ... art events etc ... of varying success of course. Greenwich Park is also just round the corner when I need to pretend I live on the set of 100 + 1 Dalmations.

 

The unavoidable difficulty is that it's in East London, sorry. Outdoor my not inexpensive building are multiple drug dealers all day, a few stabbings to keep the annual quota up, and generally people I would otherwise have nothing to do with (whoops, that wasn't very woke). 

 

There are better parts of London, but when it comes to choosing which shoebox to live in it's barely worth the research. 

 

Fun article though; if you like the history of it check out the docklands museum ... really interesting and well put together.

[Stuey]

30 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Top rated comments, which reflect a more practical up to date view

It is really evident that there was no plan for the area. What London is crying out for are residential homes with gardens. What it got was towers for Chinese investors. The same thing happening again at Battersea power station. Terrible government mismanagement.

 

Come to the Netherlands to see planning in action:

 

- cycle paths everywhere,

- sufficient parking for cars in all newly built districts

- trees lining the streets in proper neighbourhoods

- a mix of high-end and genuinely affordable social housing

- no extortionate leasholds (rather leaseholds owned by the city of Amsterdam that rise in line with land value, fund future development and can be bought out for reasonable sums by residents)

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reply In reply to Times Tide Will Smother You

I completely agree. This development has done nothing for the 20,00 on the Tower Hamlets waiting list.  £840,000 for a one bedroom flat is a sick joke. The child poverty rate is the highest of all London boroughs and multi generational families trapped in flats that are way too small. All this has had devastating consequences for the impact of Covid 19.  Money and state support for the rich and powerful.......

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Actually that’s got far more to do with mass immigration and huge Bangladeshi families in that region. Attainment is low because many Bangladeshi children are kept away from school. So a local head told me a few years ago.

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Actually that’s got far more to do with mass immigration and huge Bangladeshi families in that region. 

£840,000 for a 1 bed flat in East London is the fault of immigrant families from Bangladesh?

 

many Bangladeshi children are kept away from school

To my knowledge cases such as these are followed up and parents prosecuted. Are you sure this is widespread. 

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reply In reply to Times Tide Will Smother You

No greenbelt, however? It’s easy to build spacious when you are alowed to redevelop ex-agricultural land.

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If you look at the size of the area in question, and of that in Battersea, there was the possibility to build thousands of terraced homes each with a small garden. I live in a two bed terrace in Amsterdam  - one of 13 on our square, total size of the plot for all the houses, gardens and a large central square is half an acre! But it doesn't feel high density and we all get lots of light and homes that feel big.

 

So

- 1000 proper houses could have been built on the Battersea redevelopment  (42 acres)

- 149,500 proper houses could have been built on the 9 square miles (5,751 acres) of land in the docklands

 

And this would have included 30% as public space (squares and parkland)

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reply In reply to Times Tide Will Smother You

The Netherlands is full of apartments. I would have said the things that characterise the country is the high density of roads and the fact that loads of buildings are between 4 and 12 storeys. The result is they all have parking and don't live in rabbit hutches, but the place is generally less walkable (excluding the centre of Amsterdam).

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reply In reply to Times Tide Will Smother You

I do agree we need a lot more prescriptive planning (at medium density levels) like in the Netherlands, but I differ in the view that these should be delivered in Prime Central London locations. How do your proposed number of units compare with what was delivered?

 

I think we should do exactly what you propose, but on Greenbelt land alongside existing rail lines - e.g. Crossrail western route is ripe for densification. Obviously not on valuable ecological land - but London’s outskirts are full of golf courses & intensely farmed agricultural land with dubious ecological credentials - far better served by (a smaller area of) parks in lieu of monoculture fields.

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reply In reply to Times Tide Will Smother You

I think apartments are generally better. Build medium density, 5 floors high, 130sqm apartments each with a balcony and shared garden. Medium density means more walkable services and no need for a car (or at least no need for 2). 

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reply In reply to Times Tide Will Smother You

What London is crying out for are residential homes with gardens

Giving each household a small private garden is a horrible waste of land and propagates urban sprawl. Medium density apartment blocks with a variety of accommodations from studios to duplexes and a large communal garden are a much cleverer use of space. The average Brit is not particularly good at gardening.

I am fortunate to live in the Edinburgh New Town and it really is a masterpiece of urban planning. The different blocks of housing fall into the catchment of a communal garden. 

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I live here now. I actually like the area itself physically, and the docklands sailing centre is a God send. Proximity to work is convenient, the shops are likewise convenient and you can see the estate does its best to encourage people in ... art events etc ... of varying success of course. Greenwich Park is also just round the corner when I need to pretend I live on the set of 100 + 1 Dalmations.

 

The unavoidable difficulty is that it's in East London, sorry. Outdoor my not inexpensive building are multiple drug dealers all day, a few stabbings to keep the annual quota up, and generally people I would otherwise have nothing to do with (whoops, that wasn't very woke). 

 

There are better parts of London, but when it comes to choosing which shoebox to live in it's barely worth the research. 

 

Fun article though; if you like the history of it check out the docklands museum ... really interesting and well put together.

London finished being part of England a long time ago.

Birmingham is transitioning.

Manchester next. Then Leeds.

Sheffield, York, Newcastle - enjoy while you can.

[The Generation Game]

24 minutes ago, Stuey said:

London finished being part of England a long time ago.

Birmingham is transitioning.

Manchester next. Then Leeds.

Sheffield, York, Newcastle - enjoy while you can.

Is Sheffield becoming the next Chanov?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chanov_housing_estate

[spygirl]

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/meet-the-roma-king-page-20247207

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/estate-chaos-much-tension-sheffields-18683228

One of the biggest ethnic groups in the area is the Roma community and according to a spokeswoman for Firvale Community Hub, the weekend's disputes emanated from a feud within that community.

She said: "The main fighting that has taken place during the COVID pandemic has been Roma to Roma which is not very good but it's not tension between different communities.

"They have a fallout and it's their culture to conduct themselves in that manner. It's their heritage so you can imagine how startled the community has been in that situation.

Watch as men, women and children brawl in the street and smack each other with wooden chairs in shocking footage

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/watch-men-women-children-brawl-18663653

Less than 10 years ago there were zilch, nada.

Look what the gormless fucks like Blunkett and tge pull yourself up bootstraps have allowed.

[spygirl]

https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/people/what-its-truly-living-sheffields-page-hall-3031426

[Shamus]

45 minutes ago, Stuey said:

London finished being part of England a long time ago.

Birmingham is transitioning.

Manchester next. Then Leeds.

Sheffield, York, Newcastle - enjoy while you can.

Not just cities the large towns are changing very fast as well due to dubious incomers

[Errol]

1 minute ago, Shamus said:

Not just cities the large towns are changing very fast as well due to dubious incomers

White flight has been a thing for a while now. Same in the USA. 

Nobody in their right mind would live in London now with a family. And really the city is only for the very rich - i.e. if you can actually live in London (as opposed to 2 miles away from the centre).

[humdrum]

I seem to be missing something. I live in London. Easy communications, plenty of open spaces and coffee houses, restaurants, movie halls, museums, art galleries, theatres and the like. Lots of interesting folk. 

It has gotten a lot quieter. And kinder. Time was when the police would see a tramp sleeping in a doorway and kick him in the nuts by way of a salutation. Now they talk through the issues and advise on the best spikes or indeed, hand out clean ones.

I have to say that I do miss the old days when Plod would clear out the pubs by steaming in with their sticks while the bystanders cheered them on. But there you are. I cannot recall the last time I saw anyone lying in a pool of his own vomit and muttering, "Carrots? I don't eat bloody carrots."

Londonwise, we are living in quiet times.

[spygirl]

5 hours ago, humdrum said:

I seem to be missing something. I live in London. Easy communications, plenty of open spaces and coffee houses, restaurants, movie halls, museums, art galleries, theatres and the like. Lots of interesting folk. 

It has gotten a lot quieter. And kinder. Time was when the police would see a tramp sleeping in a doorway and kick him in the nuts by way of a salutation. Now they talk through the issues and advise on the best spikes or indeed, hand out clean ones.

I have to say that I do miss the old days when Plod would clear out the pubs by steaming in with their sticks while the bystanders cheered them on. But there you are. I cannot recall the last time I saw anyone lying in a pool of his own vomit and muttering, "Carrots? I don't eat bloody carrots."

Londonwise, we are living in quiet times.

What did the Police clear a pub?

That must be going back to the 70s.

 

[Austin Allegro]

On 13/06/2021 at 11:36, spygirl said:

Theres a good feature in this WEs FT.

Inside London’s Docklands: 40 years of ambition, politics and financial wrangling

https://www.ft.com/content/aa485ae2-c48d-47ee-8c9c-a21b697ef5eb

Worth maturing the subs free or reading it in the pub.

Interesting, as Docklands got going on big bang, with the demand for people and office space.

Its fizzling out as the finance has shrunk and been automated.

Id bet Covid is going mark the end of London growth n money n properdee, in the same way but bang in 86 marked the start.

Article starts with -

In 1981, in the grip of what in retrospect I realise must have been a premature midlife crisis, I sold my three-bedroom south London semi for £65,000 and moved into a loft in Wapping. I left my Habitat kitchen and the stained-glass window depicting a galleon over the front door behind and moved into Metropolitan Wharf, a 19th-century Thames-side warehouse with 2,000 square feet of agoraphobia-inducing, wide-open raw space. It was big enough for an indoor bike ride.

I seriously think hes got the date andor the money wrong. I was seeing 3br semis in South London not far off that in 1995.

That's not prosperity, that's muzzers.

 

Wait till the subs are pulled and automation continues.

 

 

My neighbour's house, 3 bed terrace in outer NW London went for £40k in 1981. I remember because my father was shocked. It's possible a semi with large gardens, garage etc in a nice part of south London could have gone for £65k then.

37 minutes ago, spygirl said:

What did the Police clear a pub?

That must be going back to the 70s.

 

A few years ago I was in a packed Wetherspoon's and there was a punch up at the bar. Nobody paid much attention or left, until about ten minutes later when Plod arrived. Then the place emptied in seconds. 'You ain't seen me, roite!'